Let's see, he can concentrate on the very seriousness of the shit storm he is inheriting, or he can play ping pong with frivolous lawsuits started by partisan idiots who work to the detriment of the country in the name of 'party', or some self interest. Yeah, this one I see as pretty cut and dried, Angelica.
It seems that you see all of them as cut and dried....
and you use strong, emotionally charged language in communicating that.
partisan: an adherent or supporter of a person, group, party, or cause, esp. a person who shows a biased, emotional allegiance.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I think the concept of challenging politics to stand up to all forms of scrutiny is a worthwhile process in and of itself.
I doubt very highly it would take more than a few moments of BO's time to have someone issue a simple statement in response, and be done with it.
Avoiding something based on distrust just breeds further distrust.
Something like "we have looked into the claims and find them to be nothing more than desperate, trivial and inconsequential, and something that requires no further action on our behalf", and then he could go on to sell his strong points, and totally turn it around.
The ignorance thing is just bad practice...bad PR.
You should forward your thoughts to his blackberry. He might be very appreciative.
You should forward your thoughts to his blackberry. He might be very appreciative.
He's a smart guy, and so are the people around him supposedly. If I can figure it out, why can't he/they?
"Sir there's a potentially small fire brewing in the back room, it's growing. You could spit on it to put it out at this point... just say yes or no and we'll have someone go do it. It requires 5 seconds of thought and action on your behalf.
*insert jeopardy music*
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I think the concept of challenging politics to stand up to all forms of scrutiny is a worthwhile process in and of itself.
I doubt very highly it would take more than a few moments of BO's time to have someone issue a simple statement in response, and be done with it.
Avoiding something based on distrust just breeds further distrust.
Something like "we have looked into the claims and find them to be nothing more than desperate, trivial and inconsequential, and something that requires no further action on our behalf", and then he could go on to sell his strong points, and totally turn it around.
The ignorance thing is just bad practice...bad PR.
He already had a "simple statement in response" put out back in June while he was still campaigning. Then he released a copy of his COLB - for public viewing, which I think is very unusual. The plain fact of the matter is, it will never be enough to satisfy the intrewebs.. They have already made up their minds. No remarks, statements or even a long form birth certificate will ever convince them otherwise. These people will never consider him legitimate, so why bother trying to change their minds. Let these Berg types make claims, put out requests for donations, and continue to circulate money between themselves in what amounts to a "wow, isn't this like the neatest evah!? I is OUTRAGED ova teh theft of teh whit house by furriners" pyramid scheme.
How you're claiming some moral high ground here is rather puzzling, and indicative of other things as well.
Moral high ground? I'm just using your definition. Pray tell, how does Obama NOT meet the Merriam Webster definition of change? You brought it up, defend it.
Furthermore, how is his using change as a slogan any different from any other race in history? Bush had "stay the course" last election, Clinton had "it's the economy stupid." Are you really this wound up over a slogan? Especially one that, by your own definition, is reasonably accurate.
I find it quite telling that you have no response to the substance of my post, and instead make it about your personal perceptions of me. That's the first sign of a weak argument.
I find it quite telling that you have no response to the substance of my post, and instead make it about your personal perceptions of me. That's the first sign of a weak argument.
it takes one to know one?......;)
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I cringe when people disregard concepts like this and play favorites. You're only screwing yourself.
I cringe when people lend credence to cockamamie frivolous bullshit like this topic is.
Who is playing favorites? I am calling it as I see it.
Again, where is the proof or reason to believe that Obama was born in Africa? Has the African doctor come forward saying that he delivered the infant Obama? Is there photographs of the newborn Obama in an African hospital? Is there at least a Kenyon Birth Certificate for Barack Obama?
What logical reason exists to doubt Obama on his word, and in reading the proof from the Hawaii Health Department that he was in fact born in HI?
I cringe when people lend credence to cockamamie frivolous bullshit like this topic is.
Who is playing favorites? I am calling it as I see it.
Again, where is the proof or reason to believe that Obama was born in Africa? Has the African doctor come forward saying that he delivered the infant Obama? Is there photographs of the newborn Obama in an African hospital? Is there at least a Kenyon Birth Certificate for Barack Obama?
What logical reason exists to doubt Obama on his word, and in reading the proof from the Hawaii Health Department that he was in fact born in HI?
so you see one view. is it okay for you that someone else sees differently, and would like to explore their perspective?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
He's a smart guy, and so are the people around him supposedly. If I can figure it out, why can't he/they?
"Sir there's a potentially small fire brewing in the back room, it's growing. You could spit on it to put it out at this point... just say yes or no and we'll have someone go do it. It requires 5 seconds of thought and action on your behalf.
*insert jeopardy music*
I would venture to guess that the really smart people (who are smarter than you and i combined) are smart enough to know when they see a frivolous lawsuit when they see one. And they are smart enough to know what the important issues are facing Barack Obama at this time. This isn't one of them. Trust me, and you can take this to the bank, you didn't figure anything out that they already haven't combed over with a fine tooth comb. The Obama campaign and transition team has ran one of the most careful campaigns and transitions in the history of such. No drama Obama.
He already had a "simple statement in response" put out back in June while he was still campaigning. Then he released a copy of his COLB - for public viewing, which I think is very unusual. The plain fact of the matter is, it will never be enough to satisfy the intrewebs.. They have already made up their minds. No remarks, statements or even a long form birth certificate will ever convince them otherwise. These people will never consider him legitimate, so why bother trying to change their minds. Let these Berg types make claims, put out requests for donations, and continue to circulate money between themselves in what amounts to a "wow, isn't this like the neatest evah!? I is OUTRAGED ova teh theft of teh whit house by furriners" pyramid scheme.
That's all good, but It's the only outstanding claim. I disagree that providing proof in this case will not satisfy or shut down the lawsuit cold. That is what the lawsuit is all about. Some picture on a webpage is never going to be considered proof of anything. I think it's foolish for BO to even think it could be in the first place.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
so you see one view. is it okay for you that someone else sees differently, and would like to explore their perspective?
A perspective as to what's been documented as his place of birth? Give it rest.
Oh, right, I know you're next answer, "I don't expect the vast majority to agree with me." You are quite the contrarian and free thinker. You go girl.
so you see one view. is it okay for you that someone else sees differently, and would like to explore their perspective?
Not when it is based off of complete fabrication of fear tactics that Obama is a Muslim terrorist and was never born in the US. No, I cannot lend anything to that being it has been proven otherwise.
Just like I could never lend anything to the idea that GW was somehow directly involved in 9/11. And I can't stand GW as our president, but my logic takes over in discussions like these and I know that idea of dynamite being planted in the Word Trade center before hand, was a stupid conspiracy theory. I saw the planes and Obama was born in HI. No one has YET to tell me the logical reason to think otherwise.
That's all good, but It's the only outstanding claim. I disagree that providing proof in this case will not satisfy or shut down the lawsuit cold. That is what the lawsuit is all about. Some picture on a webpage is never going to be considered proof of anything. I think it's foolish for BO to even think it could be in the first place.
No, that is why the Hawaii Department of Health, who issues and maintains those records have said that it is in fact legit. Why would the HI Department of Health lie for Obama? A certified copy from the state of birth is just as valid of a birth certificate as the original one printed.
I love how you think just because someone brought a lawsuit, that means there is merit to it.
A perspective as to what's been documented as his place of birth? Give it rest.
Oh, right, I know you're next answer, "I don't expect the vast majority to agree with me." You are quite the contrarian and free thinker. You go girl.
I know:
you are right and others are wrong, because you are colourful enough to portray things that way....
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Not when it is based off of complete fabrication of fear tactics that Obama is a Muslim terrorist and was never born in the US. No, I cannot lend anything to that being it has been proven otherwise.
Just like I could never lend anything to the idea that GW was somehow directly involved in 9/11. And I can't stand GW as our president, but my logic takes over in discussions like these and I know that idea of dynamite being planted in the Word Trade center before hand, was a stupid conspiracy theory. I saw the planes and Obama was born in HI. No one has YET to tell me the logical reason to think otherwise.
Can you point out where Berg said BO was a Muslim terrorist?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Can you point out where Berg said BO was a Muslim terrorist?
No, but I can only assume those are his motives for bringing this up.
Can you provide some of the things I have asked for:
Again, where is the proof or reason to believe that Obama was born in Africa? Has the African doctor come forward saying that he delivered the infant Obama? Is there photographs of the newborn Obama in an African hospital? Is there at least a Kenyon Birth Certificate for Barack Obama?
What logical reason exists to doubt Obama on his word, and in reading the proof from the Hawaii Health Department that he was in fact born in HI?
Not when it is based off of complete fabrication of fear tactics that Obama is a Muslim terrorist and was never born in the US. No, I cannot lend anything to that being it has been proven otherwise.
Just like I could never lend anything to the idea that GW was somehow directly involved in 9/11. And I can't stand GW as our president, but my logic takes over in discussions like these and I know that idea of dynamite being planted in the Word Trade center before hand, was a stupid conspiracy theory. I saw the planes and Obama was born in HI. No one has YET to tell me the logical reason to think otherwise.
It's fair to disagree. It's fair to present your case. I definitely understand if people adamantly see another perspective, and want to assert that.
what is interesting to me is when others get so adamant and go way beyond reasoned debate. it becomes no longer about politics, discussion, debate, or the effective use of logic, but about the interpersonal skill of the person 'discussing'.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Again, where is the proof or reason to believe that Obama was born in Africa? Has the African doctor come forward saying that he delivered the infant Obama? Is there photographs of the newborn Obama in an African hospital? Is there at least a Kenyon Birth Certificate for Barack Obama?
What logical reason exists to doubt Obama on his word, and in reading the proof from the Hawaii Health Department that he was in fact born in HI?
Important point here... the American justice system requires that the ACCUSER present proof of his or her claims. Obama doesn't have to do or say a damn thing in response to this nonsense, it's up to the guy suing him to provide some proof that there is foul play. Obama satisfied the election committee and the Hawaii Dept of Health. Until this guy can provide some evidence on his side, he's got nothing.
Personally, I want Obama to provide DNA evidence, because I suspect he's an imposter and not the real Barack Obama!
No, that is why the Hawaii Department of Health, who issues and maintains those records have said that it is in fact legit. Why would the HI Department of Health lie for Obama? A certified copy from the state of birth is just as valid of a birth certificate as the original one printed.
I love how you think just because someone brought a lawsuit, that means there is merit to it.
BO should be able to stand up to all forms of scrutiny, and people have the right to make claims they feel are worth mentioning for reasons cited in the US constitution.
But to leave it up to further speculation and questionably, whether valid or not, is just plain foolish.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
That's all good, but It's the only outstanding claim. I disagree that providing proof in this case will not satisfy or shut down the lawsuit cold. That is what the lawsuit is all about. Some picture on a webpage is never going to be considered proof of anything. I think it's foolish for BO to even think it could be in the first place.
The lawsuit will be shut down cold when it's thrown out by the courts. Hawaii has verified that Obama was born in Hawaii. As for the birth certificate itself, it will always only be a picture on a website, no matter what copy is released. The real one has been viewed by those in the know. Unless the next step is to pass the original long form birth certificate around the country for each and every citizen to view and analyze, then the case is dead.
That will never stop the conspiracy theorists, though. There will always, always be another lawsuit. Obama might as well start ignoring them now.
BO should be able to stand up to all forms of scrutiny, and people have the right to make claims they feel are worth mentioning for reasons cited in the US constitution.
But to leave it up to further speculation and questionably, whether valid or not, is just plain foolish.
They also have the obligation to present evidence in support of their claims. That means more than just "I don't believe what you gave, I want more!"
They also have the obligation to present evidence in support of their claims. That means more than just "I don't believe what you gave, I want more!"
Berg is willing, and has provided evidence and criteria for consideration, all of it hinges on producing the original document. It's in the PDF link I posted posts above.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
The lawsuit will be shut down cold when it's thrown out by the courts. Hawaii has verified that Obama was born in Hawaii. As for the birth certificate itself, it will always only be a picture on a website, no matter what copy is released. The real one has been viewed by those in the know. Unless the next step is to pass the original long form birth certificate around the country for each and every citizen to view and analyze, then the case is dead.
That will never stop the conspiracy theorists, though. There will always, always be another lawsuit. Obama might as well start ignoring them now.
If people trusted the legal system absolute, this would be the case. It's more about good/bad PR than the lawsuit itself at this point.
Not passed around the country, just be seen officially by a judge according to the questions raised, which is what Berg is trying to do.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I know:
you are right and others are wrong, because you are colourful enough to portray things that way....
Invoke common sense from time to time. It simplifies a lot of life's questions.
If one were to look at the world from a more practical, pragmatic vantage,
that world might appear in form closer to it's actuality. Elevated potential can only exist when the skirmishes are done away with and energy can be focused
more directly on the problems at hand.
BO should be able to stand up to all forms of scrutiny, and people have the right to make claims they feel are worth mentioning for reasons cited in the US constitution.
But to leave it up to further speculation and questionably, whether valid or not, is just plain foolish.
Not if they are deemed frivolous by logical thinking Americans.
I do not want my president to have to answer to these frivolous claims when I am sure you can agree, there are much bigger fish to fry.
Berg is willing, and has provided evidence and criteria for consideration, all of it hinges on producing the original document. It's in the PDF link I posted posts above.
The copy provided from the HI department of health satisfies this request.
If people trusted the legal system absolute, this would be the case. It's more about good/bad PR than the lawsuit itself at this point.
Not passed around the country, just be seen officially by a judge according to the questions raised, which is what Berg is trying to do.
Berg is trying to waist the courts and Obama's time with this frivolous bullshit that he has absolutely no proof or reasoning to back up his ridiculous claim.
Invoke common sense from time to time. It simplifies a lot of life's questions.
If one were to look at the world from a more practical, pragmatic vantage,
that world might appear in form closer to it's actuality. Elevated potential can only exist when the skirmishes are done away with and energy can be focused
more directly on the problems at hand.
Interesting how you are attempting to tell someone else how to think.
When you understand that others just think the way they do, then talk to me about being pragmatic and practical. Until then, you are undermining your own argument.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Not if they are deemed frivolous by logical thinking Americans.
I do not want my president to have to answer to these frivolous claims when I am sure you can agree, there are much bigger fish to fry.
Not so sure about that when the constitution is involved. It's a pretty serious claim with some grey areas attached.
It's not a "he has no time thing" by any means. I think that's an excuse flat out.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Not so sure about that when the constitution is involved. It's a pretty serious claim with some grey areas attached.
It's not a "he has no time thing" by any means. I think that's an excuse flat out.
Anyone of us can claim something against anyone else that violates the US Constitution. But unless I bring proof to back my claim up, it is deemed frivolous!! Berg has failed to do so.
Comments
and you use strong, emotionally charged language in communicating that.
partisan: an adherent or supporter of a person, group, party, or cause, esp. a person who shows a biased, emotional allegiance.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
You should forward your thoughts to his blackberry. He might be very appreciative.
He's a smart guy, and so are the people around him supposedly. If I can figure it out, why can't he/they?
"Sir there's a potentially small fire brewing in the back room, it's growing. You could spit on it to put it out at this point... just say yes or no and we'll have someone go do it. It requires 5 seconds of thought and action on your behalf.
*insert jeopardy music*
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Moral high ground? I'm just using your definition. Pray tell, how does Obama NOT meet the Merriam Webster definition of change? You brought it up, defend it.
Furthermore, how is his using change as a slogan any different from any other race in history? Bush had "stay the course" last election, Clinton had "it's the economy stupid." Are you really this wound up over a slogan? Especially one that, by your own definition, is reasonably accurate.
I find it quite telling that you have no response to the substance of my post, and instead make it about your personal perceptions of me. That's the first sign of a weak argument.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Who is playing favorites? I am calling it as I see it.
Again, where is the proof or reason to believe that Obama was born in Africa? Has the African doctor come forward saying that he delivered the infant Obama? Is there photographs of the newborn Obama in an African hospital? Is there at least a Kenyon Birth Certificate for Barack Obama?
What logical reason exists to doubt Obama on his word, and in reading the proof from the Hawaii Health Department that he was in fact born in HI?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
That's all good, but It's the only outstanding claim. I disagree that providing proof in this case will not satisfy or shut down the lawsuit cold. That is what the lawsuit is all about. Some picture on a webpage is never going to be considered proof of anything. I think it's foolish for BO to even think it could be in the first place.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
A perspective as to what's been documented as his place of birth? Give it rest.
Oh, right, I know you're next answer, "I don't expect the vast majority to agree with me." You are quite the contrarian and free thinker. You go girl.
Just like I could never lend anything to the idea that GW was somehow directly involved in 9/11. And I can't stand GW as our president, but my logic takes over in discussions like these and I know that idea of dynamite being planted in the Word Trade center before hand, was a stupid conspiracy theory. I saw the planes and Obama was born in HI. No one has YET to tell me the logical reason to think otherwise.
I love how you think just because someone brought a lawsuit, that means there is merit to it.
you are right and others are wrong, because you are colourful enough to portray things that way....
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Can you point out where Berg said BO was a Muslim terrorist?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Can you provide some of the things I have asked for:
Again, where is the proof or reason to believe that Obama was born in Africa? Has the African doctor come forward saying that he delivered the infant Obama? Is there photographs of the newborn Obama in an African hospital? Is there at least a Kenyon Birth Certificate for Barack Obama?
What logical reason exists to doubt Obama on his word, and in reading the proof from the Hawaii Health Department that he was in fact born in HI?
what is interesting to me is when others get so adamant and go way beyond reasoned debate. it becomes no longer about politics, discussion, debate, or the effective use of logic, but about the interpersonal skill of the person 'discussing'.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Important point here... the American justice system requires that the ACCUSER present proof of his or her claims. Obama doesn't have to do or say a damn thing in response to this nonsense, it's up to the guy suing him to provide some proof that there is foul play. Obama satisfied the election committee and the Hawaii Dept of Health. Until this guy can provide some evidence on his side, he's got nothing.
Personally, I want Obama to provide DNA evidence, because I suspect he's an imposter and not the real Barack Obama!
BO should be able to stand up to all forms of scrutiny, and people have the right to make claims they feel are worth mentioning for reasons cited in the US constitution.
But to leave it up to further speculation and questionably, whether valid or not, is just plain foolish.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
That will never stop the conspiracy theorists, though. There will always, always be another lawsuit. Obama might as well start ignoring them now.
They also have the obligation to present evidence in support of their claims. That means more than just "I don't believe what you gave, I want more!"
Berg is willing, and has provided evidence and criteria for consideration, all of it hinges on producing the original document. It's in the PDF link I posted posts above.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
If people trusted the legal system absolute, this would be the case. It's more about good/bad PR than the lawsuit itself at this point.
Not passed around the country, just be seen officially by a judge according to the questions raised, which is what Berg is trying to do.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Invoke common sense from time to time. It simplifies a lot of life's questions.
If one were to look at the world from a more practical, pragmatic vantage,
that world might appear in form closer to it's actuality. Elevated potential can only exist when the skirmishes are done away with and energy can be focused
more directly on the problems at hand.
I do not want my president to have to answer to these frivolous claims when I am sure you can agree, there are much bigger fish to fry.
When you understand that others just think the way they do, then talk to me about being pragmatic and practical. Until then, you are undermining your own argument.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Not so sure about that when the constitution is involved. It's a pretty serious claim with some grey areas attached.
It's not a "he has no time thing" by any means. I think that's an excuse flat out.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")