again, you're ignoring the point of my post and just accusing me of having a big ego. I could care less about petty insults, atleast address the topic. why do you think both sides are equal, or close to being equal?
The Israelis are not willing to compromise at all. They have never offered to compromise at all... which is why they are currently occupying stolen land, and causing humanitarian crises all over the country. The violence is instigated by Israel much of the time as well.
Blaming the Palestinians for not "willing to compromise", thus blaming the violence on them is not right. The Israelis have been incredibly violent over the past 70 years atleast. These Palestinian "terror attacks" that you see on TV did not really begin until 30 years after the occupation.
So the solution is????
Why should Israel compromise if they are the ruling power? Even if it is the right thing to do doesn't mean that they will be willing to do so. That is why like it or not the Palestinians will have to lay down there arms before there will be peace in the region.
And once they do and Israel still doesn't grant them there own state then the US will have to intervene and spearhead the peace talks.
I'm afraid that the Palestinians have to many different political factions that it will be hard for them to unify themselves to ever get to this point.
I'm no fan of Israel myself but I also am not blinded to the atrocities the the Palestinians have perpetrated on the Israelis. Two wrongs don't make a right and if you don't like something don't you do it two both apply here.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Why should Israel compromise if they are the ruling power?
That's exactly why they should compromise. They are the upper hand in an illegal occupation.
Even if it is the right thing to do doesn't mean that they will be willing to do so.
which is why we must force our country to apply pressure to them- something our lord and savior Barack Obama won't do.
That is why like it or not the Palestinians will have to lay down there arms before there will be peace in the region.
They didn't pick up arms until the early 90s, but there was never peace in the region- that's because Israel is the aggressor, not Palestine.
And once they do and Israel still doesn't grant them there own state then the US will have to intervene and spearhead the peace talks.
where have you been the last 70 years when Israel has been committing several, ILLEGAL atrocities against the Palestinians, where the U.S. would do nothing, or atleast veto UN resolutions. why shouldn't the U.S. intervene NOW? there's an illegal occupation going on, and a humanitarian crisis taking place, why do you not think the U.S. should do something now?
I'm afraid that the Palestinians have to many different political factions that it will be hard for them to unify themselves to ever get to this point.
If Israel were to withdraw from the occupied territories, all the Palestinian factions, including Hamas, would be willing to talk to Israel, which would unify them- thus solve another problem.
I'm no fan of Israel myself but I also am not blinded to the atrocities the the Palestinians have perpetrated on the Israelis. Two wrongs don't make a right and if you don't like something don't you do it two both apply here.
You are, however, blinded by these Palestinian atrocities that you ignore the fact that Israel is the aggressor and occupier and is the root of this problem. In order to solve a problem completely, you must go to the root of the problem. Palestinian violence is NOT the root of the problem, which makes it pretty irrelevant.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
They have broken over one hundred UN and International laws by routinely expanding their terroritory beyond what was originally agreed upon; in a violent and murderous manner.
Israelies have cut the Palestinians off from just about all natural resources except....you know....the air they breathe.
Speaking of Chemicals, anyone familiar with this?
Crash of Cargo Plane in Holland Revealed Existence of Israeli Chemical and Biological Weapons Plant
By Victor Ostrovsky
On Oct. 4, 1992 a Tel Aviv-bound El Al cargo aircraft crashed into an apartment complex in Bijlmermeer, a neighborhood on the outskirts of Amsterdam a few minutes after takeoff from the nearby Shipol airport. The crash of the Boeing 747-200 killed 39 people on the ground and all four crew members.
The plane’s cargo was the subject of wide speculation for the next six years. The local media suspected something was not right when the crash site was cordoned off and access was limited to non-Dutch search teams in space suit-like protective gear.
At first the rumor was that there were radioactive materials on board, and radioactive traces continued to send Geiger counters off their scales long after the site was cleaned up. The Dutch government accepted the Israeli government’s explanation that radioactive counterweights were present in all early models of the 747s.
After the crash El Al representatives handed over to the Dutch authorities a revised cargo manifest which, sources now admit, included a variety of materials previously not disclosed. For some unexplained reason, the Dutch officials agreed to keep Israel’s secrets.
For years following the crash, however, residents of the surrounding neighborhoods displayed a uniquely high number of unusual ailments. But when they took to the media their inquiries as to whether the plane’s cargo could have contained health hazards, both the residents and the media were brushed off. Even though Dutch authorities knew what was on that plane, they preferred to lie to their own citizens rather than confront Israel.
--
Despite the fact that Israel has accused just about every country it regards as an enemy of developing chemical and biological weapons, it has never acknowledged its own programs to develop weapons of mass destruction. Yet a biologist who once held a senior post in Israeli intelligence told Mahanimi, “There is hardly a single known or unknown form of chemical or biological weapon…which is not manufactured at the institute.”
(In Israel)
That was the Nazi philosophy as well...you kill one of ours we kill ten of yours.
Good to see they are keeping the Nazi methodology alive and well.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I don't normally post in these threads, but to me it seems like they will just continue to destroy each other no matter what the consequences.
There's such a deep seeded bitterness and hatred that's been festering for years. They are both at fault. Israel has to give back some, if not all of the land gained in the war and the palestinians have to stop the lunacy of killing innocent people with their retarded suicide bombers.
I don't normally post in these threads, but to me it seems like they will just continue to destroy each other no matter what the consequences.
There's such a deep seeded bitterness and hatred that's been festering for years. They are both at fault. Israel has to give back some, if not all of the land gained in the war and the palestinians have to stop the lunacy of killing innocent people with their retarded suicide bombers.
Suicide bombing is built by the media to make it seem like it happens everyday. It doesn't.
Suicide bombing, while it has claimed many innocent lives, is nothing compared to what the Israeli Army does on a daily basis which claims tons more lives. The difference? what the Israeli Army does is considered "legal" by the U.S. Just wanted to point out to you that associating targeting innocent people with the Palestinians is actually a mistake most people often make.
I agree with you that Israel must withdraw from the occupied territories and give up that land for peace. once they do that, the Palestinians will stop retaliating with their guerrilla warfare, and talks will begin. However, until that happens, the Palestinians will respond with whatever means at their disposal. That's what happens when you're fighting the second largest military in the world without your own military.
It's all explained candidly in the US history books why there's a new "evil guy" (uhh now with a turban) that wants to kill you (oOoOooOooO) and he lives in the middle east now...
again and again....
War economy....
no mysteries to this paper thin puzzle.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Suicide bombing is built by the media to make it seem like it happens everyday. It doesn't.
Suicide bombing, while it has claimed many innocent lives, is nothing compared to what the Israeli Army does on a daily basis which claims tons more lives. The difference? what the Israeli Army does is considered "legal" by the U.S. Just wanted to point out to you that associating targeting innocent people with the Palestinians is actually a mistake most people often make.
But it's not a mistake that people make. There's no mistake. They do do it. They do target innocent people. I think they are both at fault.
It's all explained candidly in the US history books why there's a new "evil guy" (uhh now with a turban) that wants to kill you (oOoOooOooO) and he lives in the middle east now...
again and again....
War economy....
no mysteries to this paper thin puzzle.
This is probably a little off topic, but i can remember being taught at school when i was small, about the Israeli Olympic Athletes that were murdered by the Palestinians at the Munic Olympics. We watched documentries on it, and i can remember being mortified when they showed the dead hijackers in coffins back in their homeland being absolutely worshipped by their supporters. I thought they were crazy people. I could not comprehend that someone would do that and then be so happy about it (I was probably only about 9 or 10).
That stuck in my head for ages. It really upset me. Obviously as i got older i understood more about the conflict that is going on over there, and that it's not just one party at fault. I still look at the news reports and still get sickened by the mass hysteria and great delight that both parties seem to display whilst they are murdering of each other. Israel has to give back some of the land. Obviously that's just a start and much more needs to be done. That doesn't look like happening anytime soon. Is there ever going to be a peaceful solution?
But it's not a mistake that people make. There's no mistake. They do do it. They do target innocent people. I think they are both at fault.
It's a mistake when people associate it with the Palestinians as if they're the only ones doing it, and not just that, but as if they're doing it more than the Israelis.
And I know about the whole argument "two wrongs don't make a right" but don't give me that shit because the fact of the matter is that there is more than one problem to this conflict which is that people cannot understand what the Palestinians are forced to go through by the Israelis and why they would choose to attack the Israelis.
People seem to thing that "they're both at fault" is fine because it shows you're unbiased. fine. go ahead and claim being unbiased, but you can't claim you're being correct because there IS such thing as one being at more fault than the other. when one person can solve a majority of the conflict by doing something but chooses not to (Israel withdrawing from occupied territories), while also choosing to attack civilians, starve and torture people, etc, then it goes to show that this conflict is definitely bigger than "both sides are at fault".
It's a mistake when people associate it with the Palestinians as if they're the only ones doing it, and not just that, but as if they're doing it more than the Israelis.
And I know about the whole argument "two wrongs don't make a right" but don't give me that shit because the fact of the matter is that there is more than one problem to this conflict which is that people cannot understand what the Palestinians are forced to go through by the Israelis and why they would choose to attack them.
People seem to thing that "they're both at fault" is fine because it shows you're unbiased. fine. go ahead and claim being unbiased, but you can't claim you're being correct because there IS such thing as one being at more fault than the other. when one person can solve a majority of the conflict by doing something but chooses not to (Israel withdrawing from occupied territories), while also choosing to attack civilians, starve and torture people, etc, then it goes to show that this conflict is definitely bigger than "both sides are at fault".
I can't speak for anybody else, but i absolutely believe you are correct when you say 'people cannot understand what the Palestinians are forced to go through by the Israelis and why they would choose to attack them.'
I don't think like they do, and thankfully i don't have to live like they do. I can easily say i wouldn't fight back the way they are, but if i was subjected to what they were, i don't know what i would do in that situation. I think thats why people like me find it easy to say 'they are both at fault'. Because i am not there and not being subjected to what they are.
That doesn't mean i find what the israelis are doing acceptable. No way. I believe that they are the instigators of the continuing violence. They can make things better there but they choose not to. They will not bend an inch. That's about as honest as i can be. It seems simple to me, Israel has to withdraw from the occupied territories. Then they can work on the other problems.
I can't speak for anybody else, but i absolutely believe you are correct when you say 'people cannot understand what the Palestinians are forced to go through by the Israelis and why they would choose to attack them.'
I don't think like they do, and thankfully i don't have to live like they do. I can easily say i wouldn't fight back the way they are, but if i was subjected to what they were, i don't know what i would do in that situation. I think thats why people like me find it easy to say 'they are both at fault'. Because i am not there and not being subjected to what they are.
That doesn't mean i find what the israelis are doing acceptable. No way. I believe that they are the instigators of the continuing violence. They can make things better there but they choose not to. They will not bend an inch. That's about as honest as i can be. It seems simple to me, Israel has to withdraw from the occupied territories. Then they can work on the other problems.
Suicide bombing is built by the media to make it seem like it happens everyday. It doesn't.
And it doesn;t matter if it's every day, every other day, or once a month.
I'm amazed that you are unabel to say...sucicide bombing is wrong and bad...if you can't do that, you can't have a meaningful discussion on this matter.
And it doesn;t matter if it's every day, every other day, or once a month.
I'm amazed that you are unabel to say...sucicide bombing is wrong and bad...if you can't do that, you can't have a meaningful discussion on this matter.
because it's irrelevant. it does matter if it happens everyday or not... in fact, it matters a whole fucking lot.
The only reason people bring up suicide bombings in debates is to justify Israeli military action against the Palestinians, or to make it as if the violence there is equal on both sides, which is, as you might guess now, bullshit.
because it's irrelevant. it does matter if it happens everyday or not... in fact, it matters a whole fucking lot.
The only reason people bring up suicide bombings in debates is to justify Israeli military action against the Palestinians, or to make it as if the violence there is equal on both sides, which is, as you might guess now, bullshit.
By the way, I'm also amazed at my terrible typing, I coudl hardly even read my post.
Comments
see post 55 and 57....
I guess 4000 Americans=1 million Iraqis dead then? Cause death is death right? And all those Palestinians=the Israelis killed? Cause death is death?
As long as palestinians kill atleast 1 Israeli, I guess the Israelis can kill tons more Palestinians.
:rolleyes:
well, you convinced me...
Death is not death...some people are only kinda dead when they are buried and their families only miss them a 75% of the time as opposed to 100%...
So the solution is????
Why should Israel compromise if they are the ruling power? Even if it is the right thing to do doesn't mean that they will be willing to do so. That is why like it or not the Palestinians will have to lay down there arms before there will be peace in the region.
And once they do and Israel still doesn't grant them there own state then the US will have to intervene and spearhead the peace talks.
I'm afraid that the Palestinians have to many different political factions that it will be hard for them to unify themselves to ever get to this point.
I'm no fan of Israel myself but I also am not blinded to the atrocities the the Palestinians have perpetrated on the Israelis. Two wrongs don't make a right and if you don't like something don't you do it two both apply here.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jan/01/israelandthepalestinians.international
Israeli: 13
Palestinian: 373
Ratio: 29 to 1
That was in 2007 in a year of relative calm.
Israeli children since 2000: 123
Palestinian children since '00: 1047
Ratio: 9 to 1
or this
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=206905
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Let me see if I got this straight......
Israelies invaded and occupied Palestine.
They have broken over one hundred UN and International laws by routinely expanding their terroritory beyond what was originally agreed upon; in a violent and murderous manner.
Israelies have cut the Palestinians off from just about all natural resources except....you know....the air they breathe.
And the Palestinians are the instigators?
Okay, just wanted to get that straight.
Crash of Cargo Plane in Holland Revealed Existence of Israeli Chemical and Biological Weapons Plant
By Victor Ostrovsky
On Oct. 4, 1992 a Tel Aviv-bound El Al cargo aircraft crashed into an apartment complex in Bijlmermeer, a neighborhood on the outskirts of Amsterdam a few minutes after takeoff from the nearby Shipol airport. The crash of the Boeing 747-200 killed 39 people on the ground and all four crew members.
The plane’s cargo was the subject of wide speculation for the next six years. The local media suspected something was not right when the crash site was cordoned off and access was limited to non-Dutch search teams in space suit-like protective gear.
At first the rumor was that there were radioactive materials on board, and radioactive traces continued to send Geiger counters off their scales long after the site was cleaned up. The Dutch government accepted the Israeli government’s explanation that radioactive counterweights were present in all early models of the 747s.
After the crash El Al representatives handed over to the Dutch authorities a revised cargo manifest which, sources now admit, included a variety of materials previously not disclosed. For some unexplained reason, the Dutch officials agreed to keep Israel’s secrets.
For years following the crash, however, residents of the surrounding neighborhoods displayed a uniquely high number of unusual ailments. But when they took to the media their inquiries as to whether the plane’s cargo could have contained health hazards, both the residents and the media were brushed off. Even though Dutch authorities knew what was on that plane, they preferred to lie to their own citizens rather than confront Israel.
--
Despite the fact that Israel has accused just about every country it regards as an enemy of developing chemical and biological weapons, it has never acknowledged its own programs to develop weapons of mass destruction. Yet a biologist who once held a senior post in Israeli intelligence told Mahanimi, “There is hardly a single known or unknown form of chemical or biological weapon…which is not manufactured at the institute.”
(In Israel)
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/1298/9812019.html
That was the Nazi philosophy as well...you kill one of ours we kill ten of yours.
Good to see they are keeping the Nazi methodology alive and well.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWnMFbYzoKc
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/en/default.aspx?xyz=U6Qq7k%2bcOd87MDI46m9rUxJEpMO%2bi1s7fM78hljwVCm81PW1nF1WGL7HQXrSSM5FGSVAwqKBLdDaD%2bq1hooFlfkVO0HvNXnp3lhjhl6eD4abcRwLetYvlNk7D%2f1XUXa0Qctwbm%2fPg14%3d
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://www.jerusalemites.org/articles/english/oct2004/19.htm
'Breaking the silence - Israeli Soldiers Talk about the Occupied Territories'
http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/index_e.asp
B'Tselem
'Israel’s Separation Policy and Forced
Eviction of Palestinians from the Center of Hebron - 2007'
http://www.btselem.org/Download/200705_Hebron_eng.pdf
'Evaluation of the Use of Force in Israel, Gaza and
the West Bank - Medical and Forensic Investigation -
A Report by Physicians for Human Rights
November 3, 2000'
http://physiciansforhumanrights.org/library/documents/reports/report-useofforce-israel.pdf
There's such a deep seeded bitterness and hatred that's been festering for years. They are both at fault. Israel has to give back some, if not all of the land gained in the war and the palestinians have to stop the lunacy of killing innocent people with their retarded suicide bombers.
Suicide bombing, while it has claimed many innocent lives, is nothing compared to what the Israeli Army does on a daily basis which claims tons more lives. The difference? what the Israeli Army does is considered "legal" by the U.S. Just wanted to point out to you that associating targeting innocent people with the Palestinians is actually a mistake most people often make.
I agree with you that Israel must withdraw from the occupied territories and give up that land for peace. once they do that, the Palestinians will stop retaliating with their guerrilla warfare, and talks will begin. However, until that happens, the Palestinians will respond with whatever means at their disposal. That's what happens when you're fighting the second largest military in the world without your own military.
spinnnnn
It's all explained candidly in the US history books why there's a new "evil guy" (uhh now with a turban) that wants to kill you (oOoOooOooO) and he lives in the middle east now...
again and again....
War economy....
no mysteries to this paper thin puzzle.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
That stuck in my head for ages. It really upset me. Obviously as i got older i understood more about the conflict that is going on over there, and that it's not just one party at fault. I still look at the news reports and still get sickened by the mass hysteria and great delight that both parties seem to display whilst they are murdering of each other. Israel has to give back some of the land. Obviously that's just a start and much more needs to be done. That doesn't look like happening anytime soon. Is there ever going to be a peaceful solution?
And I know about the whole argument "two wrongs don't make a right" but don't give me that shit because the fact of the matter is that there is more than one problem to this conflict which is that people cannot understand what the Palestinians are forced to go through by the Israelis and why they would choose to attack the Israelis.
People seem to thing that "they're both at fault" is fine because it shows you're unbiased. fine. go ahead and claim being unbiased, but you can't claim you're being correct because there IS such thing as one being at more fault than the other. when one person can solve a majority of the conflict by doing something but chooses not to (Israel withdrawing from occupied territories), while also choosing to attack civilians, starve and torture people, etc, then it goes to show that this conflict is definitely bigger than "both sides are at fault".
I don't think like they do, and thankfully i don't have to live like they do. I can easily say i wouldn't fight back the way they are, but if i was subjected to what they were, i don't know what i would do in that situation. I think thats why people like me find it easy to say 'they are both at fault'. Because i am not there and not being subjected to what they are.
That doesn't mean i find what the israelis are doing acceptable. No way. I believe that they are the instigators of the continuing violence. They can make things better there but they choose not to. They will not bend an inch. That's about as honest as i can be. It seems simple to me, Israel has to withdraw from the occupied territories. Then they can work on the other problems.
And it doesn;t matter if it's every day, every other day, or once a month.
I'm amazed that you are unabel to say...sucicide bombing is wrong and bad...if you can't do that, you can't have a meaningful discussion on this matter.
The only reason people bring up suicide bombings in debates is to justify Israeli military action against the Palestinians, or to make it as if the violence there is equal on both sides, which is, as you might guess now, bullshit.
"Israeli PM Ehud Olmert has said he does not believe a comprehensive peace settlement can be reached with the Palestinians this year."
By the way, I'm also amazed at my terrible typing, I coudl hardly even read my post.