Israeli settlers spray chemicals on Palestinian farmers while attacking them

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Comments

  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    _outlaw wrote:
    People have their opinions, and that's fine, but it is possible for people to become educated when we post links to factual things going on that, I assume, most people don't know about.

    and what would you rather us do? stand by while the Israelis torture the Palestinians? that may be fine for you.

    do you think it's ok for Palestinians to launch rockets into Israel...? is that fine by you...?


    (for the record: I blame both parties, not just one side, like some...)
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    inmytree wrote:
    do you think it's ok for Palestinians to launch rockets into Israel...? is that fine by you...?


    (for the record: I blame both parties, not just one side, like some...)
    well there is a way to stop that but people here just seem to ignore it...

    "that's not realistic ... I think both sides should lay down their weapons"

    that's what we call a paradox.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    _outlaw wrote:
    well there is a way to stop that but people here just seem to ignore it...

    "that's not realistic ... I think both sides should lay down their weapons"

    that's what we call a paradox.

    so, are you ok with Palestinians launching rockets into Israel...?
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    inmytree wrote:
    so, are you ok with Palestinians launching rockets into Israel...?
    I just said how to stop it... :confused:
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    _outlaw wrote:
    I just said how to stop it... :confused:

    well, you're kinda avoiding my question...let me clarify why I asked...you seem to present as if Israel is the only side doing wrong in this situation, at least that's how you come across to me, however, I may be wrong...

    therefore, I wondered if you felt it was ok for the rocket attacks...since you tend to only focus on Israel...

    for me, I think both sides are being idiots, all in the name of religion...and neither side is willing to budge...therefore this Hatfield and McKoy thing will go on forever....
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    inmytree wrote:
    well, you're kinda avoiding my question...let me clarify why I asked...you seem to present as if Israel is the only side doing wrong in this situation, at least that's how you come across to me, however, I may be wrong...

    therefore, I wondered if you felt it was ok for the rocket attacks...since you tend to only focus on Israel...

    for me, I think both sides are being idiots, all in the name of religion...and neither side is willing to budge...therefore this Hatfield and McKoy thing will go on forever....
    The thing I'm trying to argue is that most people here compare the violence that goes back and forth as if it's equal measure when it's certainly not.

    The Israelis are conducting an illegal occupation, and the violence caused by the Israelis is so immense compared to the weak rockets the Palestinians shoot, that it's obvious who is the aggressor. In order to stop a conflict, you must stop the aggressor.

    If the Israelis keep pursuing to build more houses in the West Bank (which they are), causing more violence, continuing the closed gates on Gaza which is causing a humanitarian crisis, then saying "both sides are wrong" is just plain ridiculous.

    It's time people don't just stand by and excuse Israel's crimes because "both sides are wrong." It's time Israel answers for its crimes.

    edit: I'm not excusing Palestinian violence either. I'm saying in order to stop it, you must deal with Israel first.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    inmytree wrote:
    for me, I think both sides are being idiots, all in the name of religion...and neither side is willing to budge...therefore this Hatfield and McKoy thing will go on forever....

    i think this is the belief system that makes peace in the middle east difficult ... religion is involved but they are not fighting because they hate each other's faith ... it's a land war ... arabs and jews and christians lived in jerusalem before in peace and do so now without a problem ...

    the problem is that you have an occupying country oppressing an entire people ... if a rocket attack or suicide bombing is enough to distract one from realizing this critical fact - then we will never get anywhere ...

    israel has the most un security resolutions levied against it then any other country ... there is a reason for that ...

    as has been said ... it took nearly 30 years of occupation and oppression before the first real terrorists attacks against israelis occured ... during that time resolution after resolution citing israelis for violations against the palestinians were vetoed by the US ...
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    polaris wrote:
    it's interesting ... i've been reading/posting on the MT for like 5 years now maybe? ... and in the beginning - it used to be israel vs. palestine; right vs. left ... but over the years - either all the hardcore israeli supporters have left the band/board or there has definitely been an evolution ...

    most of the threads these days are about who is MORE to blame ... ie that there are no longer that many people who think israel is innocent ...

    But there are still plenty of people who believe that the Palestinians are totally innocent and refuse to see that the blame should go both ways.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    blackredyellow wrote:
    But there are still plenty of people who believe that the Palestinians are totally innocent and refuse to see that the blame should go both ways.
    see post #47.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    blackredyellow wrote:
    But there are still plenty of people who believe that the Palestinians are totally innocent and refuse to see that the blame should go both ways.

    i think it goes something like this ... if i go and oppress your entire family for 3 decades and then one day you decide to take it out on someone who is of my race ... yeah - that's not right but can i blame ya really?
  • ajedigecko
    ajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,431
    sometimes i think the people there do not want peace. everyone says they want peace.....aww screw it.......i do not know what i am talking about.

    as someone said earlier, i actually enjoy reading peoples opinions on topics. reading links does not interest me....i like opinions. when people put their opinions out for others to learn from....that is where good discussion originates.......in my opinion, of course.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Yeah but there's clearly a difference between saying hey everyone look at this.. or this event occured, what's your take, compared to constantly posting on the same complex topic in order to try and prove your point or back your own opinion.

    Something I think that's a great exercise in debate and forming your opinions and beliefs is to try and legitimately argue the opposing arguement. It broadens your opinion and in some cases makes you see things from a different vantage point. It'd be great if many people did that because they'd probably be a bit more understanding or recognize the other half, which leads to solution or agreement.
    _outlaw wrote:
    People have their opinions, and that's fine, but it is possible for people to become educated when we post links to factual things going on that, I assume, most people don't know about.

    and what would you rather us do? stand by while the Israelis torture the Palestinians? that may be fine for you.

    EDIT: shit, before you attack me for it, I don't mean people with their opinions different than mine AREN'T educated, I meant educated about these SPECIFIC things going on in the occupied territories... maybe 'more informed' would be a better thing to say, but you get my point. :p
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    polaris wrote:
    i think it goes something like this ... if i go and oppress your entire family for 3 decades and then one day you decide to take it out on someone who is of my race ... yeah - that's not right but can i blame ya really?

    Just someone of my race, then yes, you can blame me. If Palestinians were targeting the Israeli government or gov't officials, then I'd pretty much be ok with that... But to say that you really can't blame them for taking out innocent civilians because they've been oppressed by people of the same race or nationality is absurd.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    _outlaw wrote:
    The thing I'm trying to argue is that most people here compare the violence that goes back and forth as if it's equal measure when it's certainly not.

    The Israelis are conducting an illegal occupation, and the violence caused by the Israelis is so immense compared to the weak rockets the Palestinians shoot, that it's obvious who is the aggressor. In order to stop a conflict, you must stop the aggressor.

    If the Israelis keep pursuing to build more houses in the West Bank (which they are), causing more violence, continuing the closed gates on Gaza which is causing a humanitarian crisis, then saying "both sides are wrong" is just plain ridiculous.

    It's time people don't just stand by and excuse Israel's crimes because "both sides are wrong." It's time Israel answers for its crimes.

    edit: I'm not excusing Palestinian violence either. I'm saying in order to stop it, you must deal with Israel first.

    yeah, I see what you're saying...

    I'm more of a 50-50 guy...both share equal blame...but for sake of argument, let say it's 60-40...it still means both have large roles in this issue...

    personally, I say let them do what ever they want, and leave us out of it...yeah, I know that sounds cold, but we've got our own issues to deal with...

    I watch a show that is comprised of News Programs from the Middle East...and it's amazing how slanted each one is...some think Fox News is bad, just check out some "news" shows from the middle east...it's amazing how biased they truly are...which helps continue this circle of violence...
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    blackredyellow wrote:
    Just someone of my race, then yes, you can blame me. If Palestinians were targeting the Israeli government or gov't officials, then I'd pretty much be ok with that... But to say that you really can't blame them for taking out innocent civilians because they've been oppressed by people of the same race or nationality is absurd.
    In reality, comparing the Palestinians targeting civilians to the Israeli Army targeting civilians is what is absurd.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    _outlaw wrote:
    In reality, comparing the Palestinians targeting civilians to the Israeli Army targeting civilians is what is absurd.

    not so much...death is death...
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    inmytree wrote:
    yeah, I see what you're saying...

    I'm more of a 50-50 guy...both share equal blame...but for sake of argument, let say it's 60-40...it still means both have large roles in this issue...
    It's not 60-40 though. It's a much bigger ratio. Palestinian deaths and Israeli deaths are like 10:1 in many cases (5:1 in others). The fact that Israel is OCCUPYING Palestinian land, and has a blockade on Gaza that virtually allows little to nothing in, also proves that Israel is clearly the aggressor in this conflict and has a MUCH bigger role than most people think.
    personally, I say let them do what ever they want, and leave us out of it...yeah, I know that sounds cold, but we've got our own issues to deal with...
    Unfortunately, we involved ourselves in this conflict by paying billions of dollars to Israel a year, and playing the role of "world police."
    I watch a show that is comprised of News Programs from the Middle East...and it's amazing how slanted each one is...some think Fox News is bad, just check out some "news" shows from the middle east...it's amazing how biased they truly are...which helps continue this circle of violence...
    irrelevant. until Israel withdraws from the occupied territories and maintains their rhetoric of torturing the Palestinians, the violence will continue.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    inmytree wrote:
    not so much...death is death...
    ...

    so 1000 Palestinians=10 Israelis.

    I guess so. Palestinians are worth less than Israelis, apparently...
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Yeah but there's clearly a difference between saying hey everyone look at this.. or this event occured, what's your take, compared to constantly posting on the same complex topic in order to try and prove your point or back your own opinion.
    what? people can still give their takes/opinions on it, but what's wrong with also providing links that support your argument? is that really a wrong thing to do? people can still comment on it.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    _outlaw wrote:
    It's not 60-40 though. It's a much bigger ratio. Palestinian deaths and Israeli deaths are like 10:1 in many cases (5:1 in others). The fact that Israel is OCCUPYING Palestinian land, and has a blockade on Gaza that virtually allows little to nothing in, also proves that Israel is clearly the aggressor in this conflict and has a MUCH bigger role than most people think.


    Unfortunately, we involved ourselves in this conflict by paying billions of dollars to Israel a year, and playing the role of "world police."


    irrelevant. until Israel withdraws from the occupied territories and maintains their rhetoric of torturing the Palestinians, the violence will continue.

    fine...

    I guess well agree to have different viewpoints on this...I'm not sure what else to say...

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