tonight's debate

mfc2006

what should we expect? with the barrage of dirty ads & accusations flying though the media & from the mouths of the politicians themselves...

will the gloves be off? this is a town hall debate, right? how will that play a role? it will be interesting to say the least...

just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts.

chipboy

I think McCain is getting desparate and needs a game changer tonight. I expect him to be confrontational and I expect Rev Wright, Bill Ayers, and Tony Rezko all to be brought up tonight.

MrBrian

I think the gloves are off, infact I think we may get some good action tonight.
Well we can only hope!

digster

I think it'll be pretty sedate. Going after Ayers or the Keating Five will just not work well in the format of the debate.

However, if Obama wanted to really put McCain on the ropes, he should challenge him on the way his campaign has been run. "While I've been talking about your issues, McCain has been engaging in character assassination politics." If Obama brings up that issue without actually attacking McCain, the latter will be stuck. If he says that "Obama has done negative campaigning too" it will look like he's backtracking on the actions of his campaign. If he goes after Obama, he looks angry and acts like a candidate avoiding the issues. Either way, Obama wins, and he manages to get in a significant dig at McCain without seeming too severe.

Strangest Tribe

I'm getting the Popcorn ready

mca47

Strangest Tribe wrote:

I'm getting the Popcorn ready

I'm getting a 6-pack!


McCain will have to take a chance. He's falling behind in almost every swing state and his numbers continue to fall.
If Obama just plays it cool he should continue to do well in the polls.
McCain has to do some magic and Obama just cannot fuck up too bad.

jimed14

McCain should go on the offensive about Obama's tax plan, that's his best bet.

not this Ayers, Wright b.s., it doesn't affect people's 401ks or bank accounts ... people want to make sure they can frickin' retire before they are 90. Pay their kids college bills. Not dig up Ayers or Keating shit form decades ago.

nothinghead

mca47 wrote:

I'm getting a 6-pack!

so you're Joe Six-pack that Sarah Palin keeps referring to?

Me, I'm Joe Twelve-Pack...I represent Americans with drinking problems, I guess.

jimed14

nothinghead wrote:

so you're Joe Six-pack that Sarah Palin keeps referring to?

Me, I'm Joe Twelve-Pack...I represent Americans with drinking problems, I guess.

what's that say about me, I picked up a 24 on the way home ... (hey not often you can get Humbolt's Red Nectar for ~$5.99 per six pack)

Strangest Tribe

nothinghead wrote:

so you're Joe Six-pack that Sarah Palin keeps referring to?

Me, I'm Joe Twelve-Pack...I represent Americans with drinking problems, I guess.

hah hah good one

norm

nothinghead wrote:

so you're Joe Six-pack that Sarah Palin keeps referring to?

i thought it was this guy

nothinghead

cutback wrote:

i thought it was this guy

That's a great photo.



As for the actual thread topic, I'm expecting this to be more of the same. Whereas I would like to see McCain level the accusations that his advertisements, advisers, and running mate have been making to Obama's face on national television. As well, I would like to see Obama react to his advertisements the McCain campaign has been running. I would really like to hear a frank conversation about between the two principle candidates.

Additionally, I would like to hear intelligent, informed questions from the American public be answered by the candidates in a direct manner--and if they avoid the questions, I want to Tom Brokaw force them to.

Unfortunately, I think we're going to hear the same bland, deferential questions asked and we're going to receive the same question dodging answers. Hopefully Brokaw isn't as totally useless as Lehrer was during the first debate, but I don't know.

And, while I wish there was some way to make the questions spontaneous instead of prepared so far in advance and censored...that's not going to be what we get.

sweet adeline

even if mccain "takes the gloves off", its not like he can land any head shots, it will only be body blows.

Uncle Leo

Tonight McCain puts him away once and for all. The Ayres thing ends it tonight. The 40% voting for McCain will stay put. The 40% voting for Obama will too. The majority of the other 20% will go to McCain after tonight.

digster

The thing about Obama is that no matter what, he seems to remain cool under pressure. I think McCain's going to have a difficulty responding to Obama, or getting a so-called 'game changer' moment that turns the election. So often, those moments depend on a gaffe that is begun by the candidate in front, who screws up somehow. Obama is by no means a master debater, but he just doesn't really open himself up to some 'game-changing' moment. I'm tense as hell, as I always am for debates (and as always, drinking to calm the nerves; God help me, if Palin's Joe Six-Pack, I'm Joe Too-Much-Disgusting-Hard-Liquor), but I don't see it in Obama's style to offer an opening like that. What's McCain going to be able to throw at him that we haven't already heard?

nothinghead

Uncle Leo wrote:

Tonight McCain puts him away once and for all. The Ayres thing ends it tonight. The 40% voting for McCain will stay put. The 40% voting for Obama will too. The majority of the other 20% will go to McCain after tonight.

That is certainly a bold prediction.

I'm not going to bash it, though I do heavily disagree.

Why do you think this is though? How exactly do you see this playing out? I'm very curious.

Uncle Leo

nothinghead wrote:

That is certainly a bold prediction.

I'm not going to bash it, though I do heavily disagree.

Why do you think this is though? How exactly do you see this playing out? I'm very curious.

McPalin has been on the attack. All he has to do tonight is work Bill Ayers into every answer and BAM...we have Willie Horton driving a swift boat.

Truthfully, I have never for one second thought that Obama would win and this just seems like a perfect time for my prediction to come true.

digster

Uncle Leo wrote:

McPalin has been on the attack. All he has to do tonight is work Bill Ayers into every answer and BAM...we have Willie Horton driving a swift boat.

Truthfully, I have never for one second thought that Obama would win and this just seems like a perfect time for my prediction to come true.

Difference is no one heard of Willie Horton before that ad, nor was the Swift Boat stuff expected. People have been hearing about Ayers since the primary, and I just don't see it having the heft that you think. I've been wrong before, though.

jimed14

digster wrote:

Difference is no one heard of Willie Horton before that ad, nor was the Swift Boat stuff expected. People have been hearing about Ayers since the primary, and I just don't see it having the heft that you think. I've been wrong before, though.

and oh ... there's this economic crisis going on right now too ... that might play a small part of who wins over some aging radical.

iamica

I'm not even going to watch this debate. The last one almost made me physically ill.
Let me know how it turns out.

digster

jimed14 wrote:

and oh ... there's this economic crisis going on right now too ... that might play a small part of who wins over some aging radical.

I think that might make the difference. Uncle Leo has a point; the Bush 1 campaign said Willie Horton enough times and it helped them clinch the election. Why wouldn't it work this time as well? I think the problem with this time around is that it looks overtly political on the part of the McCain campaign; I don't think people are going to buy it. If it was so important, why has it not been a part of the campaign before this time? In difficult situations, wedge issues won't work. I don't think they'll work now.

However, I'm still nervous about it; who knows? McCain could string together the words "Ayers", "terrorist", "bombings", and "Obama" and the damage could be done. We'll have to see.

jimed14

I wonder what would happen ... if tonight, Obama turned to McCain and asked "John, what do you say, from here on out, we don't air one more negative commercial for the rest of the race?"

I think McCain would shit in his depends.

beachdweller

mfc2006 wrote:

what should we expect? with the barrage of dirty ads & accusations flying though the media & from the mouths of the politicians themselves...

will the gloves be off? this is a town hall debate, right? how will that play a role? it will be interesting to say the least...

just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts.

if John McCain doesn't continue the attacks during the debate, then he is every bit the political coward I think he is. Some of his attacks are so bad, it's disrespectful to his wife and daugther who were similarly attacked in 2000 by the Bush campaign. For him to go down this road, as he has the last 4 days, cheapens him as a human being.

digster

Problem is, I don't know how Obama pressing for the end of negative campaigning would fly. With Obama, I don't think he's done as many or as bad negative political ads, but his hands are nowhere near clean on the issue of negative politics. As a supporter, I'm first to admit that his campaigning has not matched his rhetoric in that regard. So some people might view that as disingenuous.

I think Obama can and should, however, go after McCain on the politics of character asassination that McCain has engaged in throughout the campaign.

jimed14

digster wrote:

Problem is, I don't know how Obama pressing for the end of negative campaigning would fly. With Obama, I don't think he's done as many or as bad negative political ads, but his hands are nowhere near clean on the issue of negative politics. As a supporter, I'm first to admit that his campaigning has not matched his rhetoric in that regard. So some people might view that as disingenuous.

I think Obama can and should, however, go after McCain on the politics of character asassination that McCain has engaged in throughout the campaign.

which is my point ... if from here on on, they ran SOLELY on their own opinions, that would be good for the country. It'll make McCain look like a dick for not saying "ok let's do that" ....

I know, I know, negative ads work.

anyway, tonight ... Obama needs to stay on point ... a Reagan-esque theme of "are you better now than you were 8 years ago?" ... hammer McCain on healthcare, the economy and Iraq.

stylo17

what exactly do Bill Ayers and Willie Horton have to do with this election?? sorry if it sounds ignorant or just plain stupid on my part, but I have no idea.
don't know if they're more before my time or not, I'm only 19 now.

nothinghead

Uncle Leo wrote:

McPalin has been on the attack. All he has to do tonight is work Bill Ayers into every answer and BAM...we have Willie Horton driving a swift boat.

Truthfully, I have never for one second thought that Obama would win and this just seems like a perfect time for my prediction to come true.

Yes, they clearly have been on the attack. But at the same time, there doesn't seem any studies showing that this has actually helped the McCain--rather, it seems to energize the Republican base, which was already in the bag, and alienate any undecided and moderate voters.

While the election is certainly close at this point, especially if one lends credence to the Bradley effect and factors in margin of error, I don't feel either candidate is looking at any easy win just yet. As well, I have a hard time believing that Ayers (or Keating for that matter, to look at it from another prospective) will trump issues such as the failing economy and what seems to be a falling foreign policy.

While the Swift Boat ordeal certainly aided in Kerry's defeat, I think liberals and conservatives alike recognize that he was a weak candidate. Obama seems to energize voters beyond Kerry's "at least I'm not George Bush" appeal. Also, he can move his forehead a little, proving that unlike Kerry, he's likely not a robot.

I guess my question is: What new revelation has there been about Obama and Ayer's connection that will propel the issue to the forefront of the election as well as change the minds of even more voters? What new light can this issue be shown in that will shift public perception in such a meaningful way as to assure "an easy victory" for John McCain?

digster

nothinghead wrote:

I guess my question is: What new revelation has there been about Obama and Ayer's connection that will propel the issue to the forefront of the election as well as change the minds of even more voters? What new light can this issue be shown in that will shift public perception in such a meaningful way as to assure "an easy victory" for John McCain?

I agree; there's not going to be any surprise attack. Obama has probably decided exactly how he will respond to any attack on Ayers, and there's not some secret weapon that McCain will be able to pull out. Obama knows how he will respond to character attacks; in a campaign as meticulously planned as his has been, it'd be ridiculous to stipulate that he has no idea how to respond to an Ayers/Wright question.

mca47

nothinghead wrote:

so you're Joe Six-pack that Sarah Palin keeps referring to?

Me, I'm Joe Twelve-Pack...I represent Americans with drinking problems, I guess.

LOL!

beachdweller

fanny mae, freddie mack weren't the catalist, only 4% of mortgages have failed, it's the deregulation that allowed the shady trading of bad mortgages with insurance policies from companies with no capital to back them up. That 60 trillion or so in bad debt is what brought down the markets. Without them, the mortgage industry would have recovered on their own.

Stone Is God

McCain, you just voted for the pork on the bailout. Stop lying. You are not a reformer.