If so, he's my new friend. I go to his page periodically to listen to the song "United" by Judas Priest. (I'm listening to it right now, as a matter of fact!)
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
What do people think of this concept?
What does it mean?
Personally, I couldn't give a fuck about this country. At least not more or less so than any other place in the world. I don't even know what the word country means. And a flag is as relevant to me as a turd on the side of the street.
Discuss...
I think Americans view patriotism differently because of cultural differences. Our country is very young compared to most others so we haven’t gone through as much. We have had basically only one type of government while most countries have had several types over thousands of years. I think most Americans relate patriotism to its people, land and institutions as a whole as well as our accomplishments. It appears you relate patriotism to your government. When we think country, we think the American people. To most Americans, the flag represents the American people, while you may think the flag represents your government. So I guess it’s much harder for us to be unpatriotic because it is on a more personal note and basically we would be saying we suck as individuals.
So that's Brazial and Canada you've been to and yet you're overly patriotic or even nationalistic and keep going on and on about how the US is the greatest country in the world. And that's complete bullshit, you have no idea what it's like in other countries so how can you say yours is the greatest?
First, I don't know what country is the best in the world because I haven't lived in every country in the world to truly find out.
I just don't understand why people get upset at people like miller because he thinks he lives in the best country in the world. Why is there a need to point out that he is wrong? Everyone has different opinions, beliefs, likes and dislikes so not everyone will ever agree on such a thing. How many times did you eat something or drink something and say that it was the best in the world? I'll tell you right now, our local homegrown tomatoes are the best freakin tomatoes in the world, lol. It is just an opinion and everyone is entitled to them. Miller is not wrong, it's just his opinion on something that should be left up to him. If he said broccoli is the best vegetable in the world would everyone be so quick to point out to him that he is wrong?
Why do people care that many Americans believe they live in the best country in the world? So freakin what!
"...believe in lies...to get by...it's divine...whoa...oh, you know what its like..."
Go ahead and piss on the other flags. I know some guys that would kick your ass if you literally pissed on their U.S. flag. Go ahead and try that out sometime, chum.
Fine, don't have a culture or a nation, that doesn't bother me - don't fuck with mine though.
Patriotism is incredibly important to a nation. Without it, the nation dies. Like the soul is to the body; when the soul dies, so does the body.
If I don't believe my country is worth fighting for, worth being proud of, worth dying for, or worth existing in the first place, then it doesn't deserve to exist any longer. Instead, we would just have a new world global order with heterogenous mixtures of various squabbling nationalities. That is a shitty way to live with your fellow man.
Tribalism is an instinctual part of humanity. Wherever many diverse "tribes" exist, they tend to fight. Look at Kashmier. Look at the Balkans. Look at Africa. America has been stable because it has always required assimilation and patriotism of its citizens. We expect patriotism because this country was founded on love of nation - not on love of democracy.
The people that made up this country were not united by the 1776 declaration of independence. They were united by being a part of the same nation. They were Americans by and large, not Britons.
This tribal instinct requires that we all be proud of where we come from. When we are not proud of that, we establish societies that are unstable and tend to be violent.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
I think Americans view patriotism differently because of cultural differences. Our country is very young compared to most others so we haven’t gone through as much. We have had basically only one type of government while most countries have had several types over thousands of years. I think most Americans relate patriotism to its people, land and institutions as a whole as well as our accomplishments. It appears you relate patriotism to your government. When we think country, we think the American people. To most Americans, the flag represents the American people, while you may think the flag represents your government. So I guess it’s much harder for us to be unpatriotic because it is on a more personal note and basically we would be saying we suck as individuals.
First, I don't know what country is the best in the world because I haven't lived in every country in the world to truly find out.
I just don't understand why people get upset at people like miller because he thinks he lives in the best country in the world. Why is there a need to point out that he is wrong? Everyone has different opinions, beliefs, likes and dislikes so not everyone will ever agree on such a thing. How many times did you eat something or drink something and say that it was the best in the world? I'll tell you right now, our local homegrown tomatoes are the best freakin tomatoes in the world, lol. It is just an opinion and everyone is entitled to them. Miller is not wrong, it's just his opinion on something that should be left up to him. If he said broccoli is the best vegetable in the world would everyone be so quick to point out to him that he is wrong?
Why do people care that many Americans believe they live in the best country in the world? So freakin what!
I like this post a lot, Evenkat. Good shit.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Patriotism is incredibly important to a nation. Without it, the nation dies. Like the soul is to the body; when the soul dies, so does the body.
I see it differently. I see that the soul goes far beyond the physical body and is not at all limited by it. The soul is eternal and does not die. Therefore I believe the expanded awareness of the global mindset goes beyond the boundaries of the body of nationalism/patriotism. Patriotism is limited to physical boundaries. A global perspective is a spiritual heart connection that reaches beyond the physical on a true soul level. It reaches beyond the limits of boundary and separation. When we learn to look beyond separation and differences, to our mutual humanity, we'll find ourselves much more equipped to eliminate problems effectively, and we'll find ourselves much less likely to rely on imbalanced power dynamics to keep on "top". We'll realise the goal is to be harmonious and balanced with one another.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I see it differently. I see that the soul goes far beyond the physical body and is not at all limited by it. The soul is eternal and does not die. Therefore I believe the expanded awareness of the global mindset goes beyond the boundaries of the body of nationalism/patriotism. Patriotism is limited to physical boundaries. A global perspective is a spiritual heart connection that reaches beyond the physical on a true soul level. It reaches beyond the limits of boundary and separation. When we learn to look beyond separation and differences, to our mutual humanity, we'll find ourselves much more equipped to eliminate problems effectively, and we'll find ourselves much less likely to rely on imbalanced power dynamics to keep on "top". We'll realise the goal is to be harmonious and balanced with one another.
Could it be true that patriotism isn't an instrument of separation, but insteand an embracement of not only our similarities, but also our differences?
There's also a fundamental differnece in perception...what some people see as a desire to be on "top" others see as an invitiation of others to reach their potential.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Could it be true that patriotism isn't an instrument of separation, but insteand an embracement of not only our similarities, but also our differences?
You might notice that earlier throughout this thread, I say we need to embrace our roots as well as expand beyond them. I don't suggest ignoring or downplaying our roots, and I can understand that we must grow strong in our roots before we can move forward. Therefore I can understand why there are varying valid levels of patriotism, even though there is also ugly fallout from it. I believe we pass a line and our patriotism becomes pathological if it has the gist of being willing to exalt one's group over another. Like the cancer cell being willing to overtake the cells around it, all the while overlooking that it's at the expense of the whole body, including itself. When one human is minimized, the body of humanity suffers. Humanity is only as strong as it's weakest link. However, we can certainly believe in ourselves and our group, without looking down at others.
There's also a fundamental differnece in perception...what some people see as a desire to be on "top" others see as an invitiation of others to reach their potential.
If reaching one's potential is at the expense of others, and is set up on an uneven playing field (by playing victim, rescuer or persecutor), that is not reaching one's potential in my mind--it is sabotaging it. And again, one can work towards and reach one's potential, or focus on the potential of the group in healthy ways, without becoming pathological. Playing "victim", "rescuer" or "persecutor" are sure signs one has stepped into an imbalanced stance and will receive fallout for ones imbalanced actions.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
You might notice that earlier throughout this thread, I say we need to embrace our roots as well as expand beyond them. I don't suggest ignoring or downplaying our roots, and I can understand that we must grow strong in our roots before we can move forward. Therefore I can understand why there are varying valid levels of patriotism, even though there is also ugly fallout from it. I believe we pass a line and our patriotism becomes pathological if it has the gist of being willing to exalt one's group over another. Like the cancer cell being willing to overtake the cells around it, all the while overlooking that it's at the expense of the whole body, including itself. When one human is minimized, the body of humanity suffers. Humanity is only as strong as it's weakest link. However, we can certainly believe in ourselves and our group, without looking down at others.
If reaching one's potential is at the expense of others, and is set up on an uneven playing field (by playing victim, rescuer or persecutor), that is not reaching one's potential in my mind--it is sabotaging it. And again, one can work towards and reach one's potential, or focus on the potential of the group in healthy ways, without becoming pathological. Playing "victim", "rescuer" or "persecutor" are sure signs one has stepped into an imbalanced stance and will receive fallout for ones imbalanced actions.
I don't think our similarities have ANYTHING to do with our roots, that's not what I was referring to. The roots of Americans are about as diverse as you can get.
There is a HUGE difference between self-interst and selflishness. And the beating of the idea of the uneven playing field into everyone who happens to be on the bottom end of the playing field, in my opinion, disuades them from pursuing their interests and realizing their potential.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
I consider myself a patriotic Australian. Not because I think my country is better than anyone else's, or because I want to fight and die for it, but because this is where I feel at home. I understand the culture and language and traditions of this country, I love the landscape and the life that I'm able to lead here. I've travelled a bit and never found another country that I'd rather live in. I feel that its my duty to work to make Australia a better place for future generations, and I want the rest of the world to have a good opinion of us, which is why it genuinely upsets me when we do things like send troops to Iraq to support an unjust war, have racial riots in the streets of Sydney, or turn a blind eye to the plight of our own aboriginal people.
I think that's what patriotism means. It should be about a sense of belonging and a share in the responsibility for the future of your country, not about some shallow idea of national superiority.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I don't think our similarities have ANYTHING to do with our roots, that's not what I was referring to. The roots of Americans are about as diverse as you can get.
There is a HUGE difference between self-interst and selflishness.
By our roots, I refer to that Americans have the common denominator of being American. Being a patriotic American refers to the root of America.
I agree there is a huge difference between self-interest and selfishness. In order to be healthy, we must get the "self" part in place. In order to expand and grow from that foundation of the self, towards Self-actualisation, we must realise the larger Self is one with all others. And again, it's crucial to get the individual self in place, first or our expansion is built on a faulty foundation.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I consider myself a patriotic Australian. Not because I think my country is better than anyone else's, or because I want to fight and die for it, but because this is where I feel at home. I understand the culture and language and traditions of this country, I love the landscape and the life that I'm able to lead here. I've travelled a bit and never found another country that I'd rather live in. I feel that its my duty to work to make Australia a better place for future generations, and I want the rest of the world to have a good opinion of us, which is why it genuinely upsets me when we do things like send troops to Iraq to support an unjust war, have racial riots in the streets of Sydney, or turn a blind eye to the plight of our own aboriginal people.
I think that's what patriotism means. It should be about a sense of belonging and a share in the responsibility for the future of your country, not about some shallow idea of national superiority.
I agree with your post 100%! That sums up pretty much how I feel about it. I love where I live, where I'm from. It's not about superiority. It's about being proud, yet respectful and appreciative of other cultures. And, like you said, wanting to make your country a better place for the future.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I just don't understand why people get upset at people like miller because he thinks he lives in the best country in the world. Why is there a need to point out that he is wrong?
I asked him to defend his statement with arguments why he thinks the US is the best country in the world. Because it is my opinion that his statement is more based upon ignorance than anything else. I've talked to people from the US who have never been to my country and they told me what my country was like, no use to tell them it's not true because afterall they live in the greatest country in the world so they know.
Everyone has different opinions, beliefs, likes and dislikes so not everyone will ever agree on such a thing. How many times did you eat something or drink something and say that it was the best in the world? I'll tell you right now, our local homegrown tomatoes are the best freakin tomatoes in the world, lol. It is just an opinion and everyone is entitled to them.
Yet when I eat some tomatoes and say they are the best in the world (which I would never say) I don't present it as an undeniable fact. And I know that any minute someone come and show me even better tomatoes.
Miller is not wrong, it's just his opinion on something that should be left up to him. If he said broccoli is the best vegetable in the world would everyone be so quick to point out to him that he is wrong?
True, it's his opinion but he should be able to defend it with reasonable arguments. Compare it with your favourite author or sportsteam, sure a lot of people will disagree, but you'll be able to explain why you like it. That's all I asked, never got an answer, though.
Why do people care that many Americans believe they live in the best country in the world? So freakin what!
I asked him to defend his statement with arguments why he thinks the US is the best country in the world. Because it is my opinion that his statement is more based upon ignorance than anything else. I've talked to people from the US who have never been to my country and they told me what my country was like, no use to tell them it's not true because afterall they live in the greatest country in the world so they know.
Yet when I eat some tomatoes and say they are the best in the world (which I would never say) I don't present it as an undeniable fact. And I know that any minute someone come and show me even better tomatoes.
True, it's his opinion but he should be able to defend it with reasonable arguments. Compare it with your favourite author or sportsteam, sure a lot of people will disagree, but you'll be able to explain why you like it. That's all I asked, never got an answer, though.
Hey Collin why won't you tell us where you are exactly? You always dodge the subject. Is it New Zealand? If its New Zealand I understand. . . .
Edit: I think I know which country it is, but I don't understand why you want to keep it a secret.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Hey Collin why won't you tell us where you are exactly? You always dodge the subject. Is it New Zealand? If its New Zealand I understand. . . .
Edit: I think I know which country it is, but I don't understand why you want to keep it a secret.
Many people know my location and I have mentioned it numerous times, I even mentioned my home town in the "Wikipedia your home town thread". And it's not New Zealand, I live in Europe.
And the beating of the idea of the uneven playing field into everyone who happens to be on the bottom end of the playing field, in my opinion, disuades them from pursuing their interests and realizing their potential.
I notice you added this part in your edit.
I personally believe the uneven playing field is an illusion created by people who believe there are "better" people and "worse" people. Or by people who believe their moral judgments to be true: ie: there are lazy people and responsible people. The truth is we are all inherently equal yet different.
I do everything in my power to support people as they attempt to stretch upward or forward in their lives. However, when I see someone operating from the illusion of being above others, including operating on the illusion that their country is better than others, rather than just being different including it's own strengths and weaknesses, they've shown me their cards. And I'm going to call them on their bluff. I'm going to reveal the illusion of the better/worse false dichotomy.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I asked him to defend his statement with arguments why he thinks the US is the best country in the world. Because it is my opinion that his statement is more based upon ignorance than anything else. I've talked to people from the US who have never been to my country and they told me what my country was like, no use to tell them it's not true because afterall they live in the greatest country in the world so they know.
Yet when I eat some tomatoes and say they are the best in the world (which I would never say) I don't present it as an undeniable fact. And I know that any minute someone come and show me even better tomatoes.
True, it's his opinion but he should be able to defend it with reasonable arguments. Compare it with your favourite author or sportsteam, sure a lot of people will disagree, but you'll be able to explain why you like it. That's all I asked, never got an answer, though.
Nobody cares, they just point and laugh.
You assume he would think there is a better country than the US if he visited every country in the world but if he actually did so he may still feel the US is the best country. Now he assumes the US is the best country in the world even though he hasn't visited every country in the world but if he did so he may think there is a better country than the US. Aren't you both assuming?
It's not fact. It just his opinion and ones opinions are not debatable. If you were arguing his favorite author or sportsman would you think it is ignorance if he thought a certain author or sportsman was the best even though he hadn't read every book or watched every sport in the world? Would it bother you as much? Does that mean we could never say anything is the best in the world?
You'll never get answer from him anyway. Besides he says that just to bother the non-Americans on the board.
"...believe in lies...to get by...it's divine...whoa...oh, you know what its like..."
You assume he would think there is a better country than the US if he visited every country in the world
No, I don't.
If you were arguing his favorite author or sportsman would you think it is ignorance if he thought a certain author or sportsman was the best even though he hadn't read every book or watched every sport in the world?
Maybe. If he had only read one book and claimed all the other books suck or made unfounded statements about them without reading them, then yes, I'd think it's ignorant.
Does that mean we could never say anything is the best in the world?
No. If you acknowledge the fact that you could be wrong instead of claiming something is the best thing in the world and then ignore everything else and refuse to listen to other opinions, I'd say that's ignorant too.
You'll never get answer from him anyway.
I think he'll never give answers because he can't come up with a decent reason why he thinks the US is the greatest country in the world.
Besides he says that just to bother the non-Americans on the board.
Many people know my location and I have mentioned it numerous times, I even mentioned my home town in the "Wikipedia your home town thread". And it's not New Zealand, I live in Europe.
See. You're doing it again. Europe is not a country. I'm just curious why you seem so secretive about it. A thread about patriotism seems an appropriate place to ask.
And I know its not New Zealand. I was joking. One of the most important things about being a patriotic Australian is making fun of New Zealand.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I personally believe the uneven playing field is an illusion created by people who believe there are "better" people and "worse" people. Or by people who believe their moral judgments to be true: ie: there are lazy people and responsible people. The truth is we are all inherently equal yet different.
I do everything in my power to support people as they attempt to stretch upward or forward in their lives. However, when I see someone operating from the illusion of being above others, including operating on the illusion that their country is better than others, rather than just being different including it's own strengths and weaknesses, they've shown me their cards. And I'm going to call them on their bluff. I'm going to reveal the illusion of the better/worse false dichotomy.
I agree with almost everything you said...almost.
There ARE lazy people. There just are. But that's a debate for another thread
But the people I was referring to I did not call lazy. I see them as victims because they are constantly told by society, the media in particular, that they can't succeed. But, I do agree with you, i believe the uneven playing field is created by judges. Enablers even.
Anyways, I'm not sure where all this "illusion that their country is better than someone else's" came from. Love of one's country and it's economic and political system and taking pride in it doesn't necessarily mean we think we're better than anyone. My interpretation is that confidence and pride threatens some...when it really shouldn't.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Comments
It might be argued that this is a patriotic act on your part.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I was thinking it would benefit the wider world.
Hmm. New world patriotism?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Something like that.
Global community patriot, human patriot,world patriot e.t.c
If so, he's my new friend. I go to his page periodically to listen to the song "United" by Judas Priest. (I'm listening to it right now, as a matter of fact!)
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
My place!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Put the kettle on then. I'll be home at 7pm.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I think Americans view patriotism differently because of cultural differences. Our country is very young compared to most others so we haven’t gone through as much. We have had basically only one type of government while most countries have had several types over thousands of years. I think most Americans relate patriotism to its people, land and institutions as a whole as well as our accomplishments. It appears you relate patriotism to your government. When we think country, we think the American people. To most Americans, the flag represents the American people, while you may think the flag represents your government. So I guess it’s much harder for us to be unpatriotic because it is on a more personal note and basically we would be saying we suck as individuals.
First, I don't know what country is the best in the world because I haven't lived in every country in the world to truly find out.
I just don't understand why people get upset at people like miller because he thinks he lives in the best country in the world. Why is there a need to point out that he is wrong? Everyone has different opinions, beliefs, likes and dislikes so not everyone will ever agree on such a thing. How many times did you eat something or drink something and say that it was the best in the world? I'll tell you right now, our local homegrown tomatoes are the best freakin tomatoes in the world, lol. It is just an opinion and everyone is entitled to them. Miller is not wrong, it's just his opinion on something that should be left up to him. If he said broccoli is the best vegetable in the world would everyone be so quick to point out to him that he is wrong?
Why do people care that many Americans believe they live in the best country in the world? So freakin what!
Go ahead and piss on the other flags. I know some guys that would kick your ass if you literally pissed on their U.S. flag. Go ahead and try that out sometime, chum.
Fine, don't have a culture or a nation, that doesn't bother me - don't fuck with mine though.
Patriotism is incredibly important to a nation. Without it, the nation dies. Like the soul is to the body; when the soul dies, so does the body.
If I don't believe my country is worth fighting for, worth being proud of, worth dying for, or worth existing in the first place, then it doesn't deserve to exist any longer. Instead, we would just have a new world global order with heterogenous mixtures of various squabbling nationalities. That is a shitty way to live with your fellow man.
Tribalism is an instinctual part of humanity. Wherever many diverse "tribes" exist, they tend to fight. Look at Kashmier. Look at the Balkans. Look at Africa. America has been stable because it has always required assimilation and patriotism of its citizens. We expect patriotism because this country was founded on love of nation - not on love of democracy.
The people that made up this country were not united by the 1776 declaration of independence. They were united by being a part of the same nation. They were Americans by and large, not Britons.
This tribal instinct requires that we all be proud of where we come from. When we are not proud of that, we establish societies that are unstable and tend to be violent.
-Enoch Powell
I like this post a lot, Evenkat. Good shit.
-Enoch Powell
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Could it be true that patriotism isn't an instrument of separation, but insteand an embracement of not only our similarities, but also our differences?
There's also a fundamental differnece in perception...what some people see as a desire to be on "top" others see as an invitiation of others to reach their potential.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
If reaching one's potential is at the expense of others, and is set up on an uneven playing field (by playing victim, rescuer or persecutor), that is not reaching one's potential in my mind--it is sabotaging it. And again, one can work towards and reach one's potential, or focus on the potential of the group in healthy ways, without becoming pathological. Playing "victim", "rescuer" or "persecutor" are sure signs one has stepped into an imbalanced stance and will receive fallout for ones imbalanced actions.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I don't think our similarities have ANYTHING to do with our roots, that's not what I was referring to. The roots of Americans are about as diverse as you can get.
There is a HUGE difference between self-interst and selflishness. And the beating of the idea of the uneven playing field into everyone who happens to be on the bottom end of the playing field, in my opinion, disuades them from pursuing their interests and realizing their potential.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
I think that's what patriotism means. It should be about a sense of belonging and a share in the responsibility for the future of your country, not about some shallow idea of national superiority.
-C Addison
I agree there is a huge difference between self-interest and selfishness. In order to be healthy, we must get the "self" part in place. In order to expand and grow from that foundation of the self, towards Self-actualisation, we must realise the larger Self is one with all others. And again, it's crucial to get the individual self in place, first or our expansion is built on a faulty foundation.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I agree with your post 100%! That sums up pretty much how I feel about it. I love where I live, where I'm from. It's not about superiority. It's about being proud, yet respectful and appreciative of other cultures. And, like you said, wanting to make your country a better place for the future.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I asked him to defend his statement with arguments why he thinks the US is the best country in the world. Because it is my opinion that his statement is more based upon ignorance than anything else. I've talked to people from the US who have never been to my country and they told me what my country was like, no use to tell them it's not true because afterall they live in the greatest country in the world so they know.
Yet when I eat some tomatoes and say they are the best in the world (which I would never say) I don't present it as an undeniable fact. And I know that any minute someone come and show me even better tomatoes.
True, it's his opinion but he should be able to defend it with reasonable arguments. Compare it with your favourite author or sportsteam, sure a lot of people will disagree, but you'll be able to explain why you like it. That's all I asked, never got an answer, though.
Nobody cares, they just point and laugh.
naděje umírá poslední
You stayed up this late to post that?
!
Wow.
C'mon dude.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I'm not sleepy and there is no place I'm going to.
Actually, I live in the weird crazy place called Not The USA so it really isn't that late over here.
Anything wrong with my post?
naděje umírá poslední
Edit: I think I know which country it is, but I don't understand why you want to keep it a secret.
-C Addison
Many people know my location and I have mentioned it numerous times, I even mentioned my home town in the "Wikipedia your home town thread". And it's not New Zealand, I live in Europe.
naděje umírá poslední
I personally believe the uneven playing field is an illusion created by people who believe there are "better" people and "worse" people. Or by people who believe their moral judgments to be true: ie: there are lazy people and responsible people. The truth is we are all inherently equal yet different.
I do everything in my power to support people as they attempt to stretch upward or forward in their lives. However, when I see someone operating from the illusion of being above others, including operating on the illusion that their country is better than others, rather than just being different including it's own strengths and weaknesses, they've shown me their cards. And I'm going to call them on their bluff. I'm going to reveal the illusion of the better/worse false dichotomy.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
You assume he would think there is a better country than the US if he visited every country in the world but if he actually did so he may still feel the US is the best country. Now he assumes the US is the best country in the world even though he hasn't visited every country in the world but if he did so he may think there is a better country than the US. Aren't you both assuming?
It's not fact. It just his opinion and ones opinions are not debatable. If you were arguing his favorite author or sportsman would you think it is ignorance if he thought a certain author or sportsman was the best even though he hadn't read every book or watched every sport in the world? Would it bother you as much? Does that mean we could never say anything is the best in the world?
You'll never get answer from him anyway. Besides he says that just to bother the non-Americans on the board.
naděje umírá poslední
See. You're doing it again. Europe is not a country. I'm just curious why you seem so secretive about it. A thread about patriotism seems an appropriate place to ask.
And I know its not New Zealand. I was joking. One of the most important things about being a patriotic Australian is making fun of New Zealand.
-C Addison
I agree with almost everything you said...almost.
There ARE lazy people. There just are. But that's a debate for another thread
But the people I was referring to I did not call lazy. I see them as victims because they are constantly told by society, the media in particular, that they can't succeed. But, I do agree with you, i believe the uneven playing field is created by judges. Enablers even.
Anyways, I'm not sure where all this "illusion that their country is better than someone else's" came from. Love of one's country and it's economic and political system and taking pride in it doesn't necessarily mean we think we're better than anyone. My interpretation is that confidence and pride threatens some...when it really shouldn't.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days