For me... Patriotism (like Faith) is personal. Waving a flag around to show other people how patriotic you are is not my gig. I don't need to show anyone my patriotism... I already know what it is.
Mine are the beliefs in the principles granted to us by our Constitutuion, not by wearing or waving a flag, repeating some creepy pledge or singing an unsingable anthem. And patriotism to me has nothing to do with going overseas to kill somebody with a gun... any more than i would equate personal happiness, liberty and freedom with the ability to purchase goods at always the lowest price, always. I believe in our foundation and the rights we possess... not our military might or our political leaders.
It's our Freedoms that people have died for... not our flag. I wish we could extend our rights and freedoms to the rest of the world... but, I don't believe we should do it at gunpoint. For me, I would rather us provide a shining example of how great and precious these freedoms are... lead by shining example and provide the model for others to want... instead of going half way around the globe and throwing hand grenades and money at them.
And as a Patriot... I am worried about my America. People here want to silence the Press... the fourth Branch of our Government... because they don't like what they are hearing. well, in places like North Korea and Iran, the press only broadcasts 'Good News'. I want no part of that.
I know America has faults and makes mistakes. but, as americans, shouldn't we OWN UP to those mistakes instead of making excuses for them? For me, Patriotism is about accepting your country for all it's good and all of its bad and trying to eliminate the bad. I know I'm fighting for a lost cause... but, I'm a Patriot... so, I'll continue to fight.
u sir are true patriot,COSMO FOR PREZ in 2012.ever notice how the word patriot has the word RIOT in it
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Save extenuating circumstances, I believe ever human to see their country as "the best country in the world.". Just as the rat perceives his maze as the world.
My country is "the best in the world" only because the people I love are here. If I could afford to take them all with me, I can think of quite a few places I'd rather live. I don't have that kind of cash though, and I can't imagine life without them, so here I am
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
My country is "the best in the world" only because the people I love are here. If I could afford to take them all with me, I can think of quite a few places I'd rather live. I don't have that kind of cash though, and I can't imagine life without them, so here I am
But then your reasoning has nothing to do with nationality, and everything to do with circumstance. It doesn't make any sense to say that one's country is the "greatest" in the world because of local factors, like family, which, as you conveniently point out, are things which happen to be completely divorced from nationality.
With such logic, every nation must be the greatest in the world, because in every nation there is love, kindness, and friendship. But then, perhaps such an idea isn't a bad one.
With such logic, every nation must be the greatest in the world, because in every nation there is love, kindness, and friendship. But then, perhaps such an idea isn't a bad one.
Bravo!
(I'm not exactly understanding how hippiemom's post brought the angry face out of the old arsenal though...)
edit: ah, you edited out the angry face!
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had -- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it, all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism."
~Howard Zinn
"Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism.... Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all others."
~Emma Goldman
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
"In the begining of a change the patriot is a scarce man, feared, hated and scorned. But in time when his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world."
- Margaret Mead
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
"We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had -- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it, all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism."
~Howard Zinn
"Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism.... Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all others."
~Emma Goldman
I love quotes! Thanks for sharing.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"In the begining of a change the patriot is a scarce man, feared, hated and scorned. But in time when his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world."
- Margaret Mead
Cool.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"In the begining of a change the patriot is a scarce man, feared, hated and scorned. But in time when his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world."
- Margaret Mead
But they still rock!
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
"Maybe I am just a little fucked up,
Life's just a little fucked up!"
~ Limp Bizkit
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'd say that having travelled abroad often and spent time in other countries which I deemed to have a better way of life than Britain, has made me see things with a wider lense. A lot of Europeans now travel freely and regularly throughout Europe and see themselves as primarily European, and worldly, as opposed to French, Italian, or German e.t.c.
I imagine that Americans have more difficulty in travelling around so easily, mainly due to geographical and financial reasons. Being the wealthiest country in the America's I expect that it's only natural you see yourselves as being 'the best country in the world'. As i said above, America can conceivably be seen as possessing many countries within itself due to the variety and vastness of the place. Although ultimately all of these disparate places are still America.
I think it's an interesting subject, and to be honest I'm too tired now to think clearly about it. But I hope you get my drift?
well said, and i do agree...many europeans seem to, to me anyway, to feel a part of europe, a citizen of europe...rather than just the country of their birth. i imagine it's a good way to feel. i know when i do travel abroad i feel so much more like a 'citizen of the world'...and i love that feeling.
With such logic, every nation must be the greatest in the world, because in every nation there is love, kindness, and friendship. But then, perhaps such an idea isn't a bad one.
And that was the point
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
well said, and i do agree...many europeans seem to, to me anyway, to feel a part of europe, a citizen of europe...rather than just the country of their birth. i imagine it's a good way to feel. i know when i do travel abroad i feel so much more like a 'citizen of the world'...and i love that feeling.
I'm all for feeling, but independent thinking is also nice.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
All this "I'm a citizen of the world" stuff is really cute and makes a great bumper sticker, but if you really feel that way, then take your citizen of the world self to Somalia and see how well you blend into the language, culture, and way of life of that area.
All i'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with loving and being comfortable with where you're from. Loving that doesn't mean hating everyone else. Reading some thing here would lead one to think that you're a rasicst fascist for being patriotic.
ever notice how the word patriot has the word RIOT in it
The Dead Kennedy's - Riot
Rioting-the unbeatable high
Adrenalin shoots your nerves to the sky
Everyone knows this town is gonna blow
And it's all gonna blow right now:.
Now you can smash all the windows that you want
All you really need are some friends and a rock
Throwing a brick never felt so damn good
Smash more glass
Scream with a laugh
And wallow with the crowds
Watch them kicking peoples' ass
But you get to the place
Where the real slavedrivers live
It's walled off by the riot squad
Aiming guns right at your head
So you turn right around
And play right into their hands
And set your own neighbourhood
Burning to the ground instead
[Chorus]
Riot-the unbeatable high
Riot-shoots your nerves to the sky
Riot-playing into their hands
Tomorrow you're homeless
Tonight it's a blast
Get your kicks in quick
They're callin' the national guard
Now could be your only chance
To torch a police car
Climb the roof, kick the siren in
And jump and yelp for joy
Quickly-dive back in the crowd
Slip away, now don't get caught
Let's loot the spiffy hi-fi store
Grab as much as you can hold
Pray your full arms don't fall off
Here comes the owner with a gun
[Chorus]
The barricades spring up from nowhere
Cops in helmets line the lines
Shotguns prod into your bellies
The trigger fingers want an excuse
Now
The raging mob has lost its nerve
There's more of us but who goes first
No one dares to cross the line
The cops know that they've won
It's all over but not quite
The pigs have just begun to fight
They club your heads, kick your teeth
Police can riot all that they please
All i'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with loving and being comfortable with where you're from. Loving that doesn't mean hating everyone else. Reading some thing here would lead one to think that you're a rasicst fascist for being patriotic.
I don't think anyone here has stated these views. No one has said that simply being patriotic neccessarily makes you a racist, or a fascist. I suppose what we're getting at is that patriotism a qualitative thing which contains an element of ugliness/ignorance. Not that these are the sum of it's parts however.
My country is "the best in the world" only because the people I love are here. If I could afford to take them all with me, I can think of quite a few places I'd rather live. I don't have that kind of cash though, and I can't imagine life without them, so here I am
nah, I would never want to live anywhere else. own a home in another country? sounds good. but never would I want to leave America
I'm all for feeling, but independent thinking is also nice.
how is it NOT independent to feel a part of the greater, global community? to me, it IS feeling more independent...not tied down by nationality. you are yourself, not tied to one nation's views....but looking from a more global perspective, not one nation's agenda...but the whole.
All this "I'm a citizen of the world" stuff is really cute and makes a great bumper sticker, but if you really feel that way, then take your citizen of the world self to Somalia and see how well you blend into the language, culture, and way of life of that area.
All i'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with loving and being comfortable with where you're from. Loving that doesn't mean hating everyone else. Reading some thing here would lead one to think that you're a rasicst fascist for being patriotic.
and 'cute'...? yea, b/c that's what i am saying...that i want to abandon home and country...instead of seeing it for what i actually meant...that it's simply a great feeling to feel a part of the world, rather than just one place.
no where did i say feeling a part of your home is a bad thing. i LOVE my home, but that doesn't mean i can't also love feeling a part of the larger community, out of my little village, my state, my country. it IS possible to feel, and appreciate both. if that's 'cute'...so be it.
i don't know why it continues to amaze me how some take a few lines, and what they infer from them....all on their own...entirely seperate from their actual meaning and what was insinuated.
d2d dear, i wasn't necessarily responding to you. i didn't quote anyone and lots of folks are in this thread. sorry to cause you any confusion.
eh well, the fact that you used the exact phrasing as did just a couple posts earlier....and i didn't personally read anyone else use that same phrasing....yes, my mistake then. however, my point still stands.
don't know if it's been posted yet as i've not read every page...but nonetheless......
And the river opens for the righteous [5x]
Someday
I was walking with my brother
And he wondered what's on my mind
I said what I believe in my soul
Ain't what I see with my eyes
And we can't turn our backs this time
I am a patriot
And I love my county
Because my country is all I know
I want to be with my family
The people who understand me
I've got nowhere else to go
And the river opens for the righteous
And the river opens for the righteous
And the river opens for the righteous
Someday
And I was talking with my sister
She looked so fine
I said, "Baby, what's on your mind?"
She said, "I want to run like the lion
Released from the cages
Released from the rages
Burning in my heart tonight"
And I ain't no communist
And I ain't no capitalist
And I ain't no socialist
And I ain't no imperialist
And I ain't no democrat
And I ain't no republican
I only know one party
And it is freedom
I am, I am, I am
I am a patriot
And I love my country
Because my county is all I know
And the river opens for the righteous
And the river opens for the righteous
And the river opens for the righteous
Someday
because I love america. I love the people, the culture, the cities, places to go and see, my family has been here for over 100 years. I want my kids to grow up here.
What do people think of this concept?
What does it mean?
Personally, I couldn't give a fuck about this country. At least not more or less so than any other place in the world. I don't even know what the word country means. And a flag is as relevant to me as a turd on the side of the street.
Discuss...
well well.Hear we go again.Patriotism mean's to love ure land no matter what. to support youre men in uniform and to fly the flagg high and proud.
an if some no good liberal like you ever went a piss on my flagg, ide a popped a pellet in ure ass.Fair enoughyou can write all the shit you want.But to do somethin that low should get you the chair imo.
I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
Comments
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
With such logic, every nation must be the greatest in the world, because in every nation there is love, kindness, and friendship. But then, perhaps such an idea isn't a bad one.
(I'm not exactly understanding how hippiemom's post brought the angry face out of the old arsenal though...)
edit: ah, you edited out the angry face!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had -- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it, all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism."
~Howard Zinn
"Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism.... Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all others."
~Emma Goldman
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
"In the begining of a change the patriot is a scarce man, feared, hated and scorned. But in time when his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world."
- Margaret Mead
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Oh, anytime! I love em, too....obviously.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
But they still rock!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I just thought of another one
"Maybe I am just a little fucked up,
Life's just a little fucked up!"
~ Limp Bizkit
Holy shit, Ahnimus has pulled out the Limp Bizkit!
and yeah, just a little...;) shhh
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
well said, and i do agree...many europeans seem to, to me anyway, to feel a part of europe, a citizen of europe...rather than just the country of their birth. i imagine it's a good way to feel. i know when i do travel abroad i feel so much more like a 'citizen of the world'...and i love that feeling.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Hell fuckin' yeah!
Oops! I missed this before.
I do have a few sites with some nice collections bookmarked and there are a few sites like thinkexist.com and brainyquotes.com that are pretty good.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm all for feeling, but independent thinking is also nice.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
All i'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with loving and being comfortable with where you're from. Loving that doesn't mean hating everyone else. Reading some thing here would lead one to think that you're a rasicst fascist for being patriotic.
The Dead Kennedy's - Riot
Rioting-the unbeatable high
Adrenalin shoots your nerves to the sky
Everyone knows this town is gonna blow
And it's all gonna blow right now:.
Now you can smash all the windows that you want
All you really need are some friends and a rock
Throwing a brick never felt so damn good
Smash more glass
Scream with a laugh
And wallow with the crowds
Watch them kicking peoples' ass
But you get to the place
Where the real slavedrivers live
It's walled off by the riot squad
Aiming guns right at your head
So you turn right around
And play right into their hands
And set your own neighbourhood
Burning to the ground instead
[Chorus]
Riot-the unbeatable high
Riot-shoots your nerves to the sky
Riot-playing into their hands
Tomorrow you're homeless
Tonight it's a blast
Get your kicks in quick
They're callin' the national guard
Now could be your only chance
To torch a police car
Climb the roof, kick the siren in
And jump and yelp for joy
Quickly-dive back in the crowd
Slip away, now don't get caught
Let's loot the spiffy hi-fi store
Grab as much as you can hold
Pray your full arms don't fall off
Here comes the owner with a gun
[Chorus]
The barricades spring up from nowhere
Cops in helmets line the lines
Shotguns prod into your bellies
The trigger fingers want an excuse
Now
The raging mob has lost its nerve
There's more of us but who goes first
No one dares to cross the line
The cops know that they've won
It's all over but not quite
The pigs have just begun to fight
They club your heads, kick your teeth
Police can riot all that they please
[Chorus]
Tomorrow you're homeless
Tonight it's a blast
I don't think anyone here has stated these views. No one has said that simply being patriotic neccessarily makes you a racist, or a fascist. I suppose what we're getting at is that patriotism a qualitative thing which contains an element of ugliness/ignorance. Not that these are the sum of it's parts however.
nah, I would never want to live anywhere else. own a home in another country? sounds good. but never would I want to leave America
how is it NOT independent to feel a part of the greater, global community? to me, it IS feeling more independent...not tied down by nationality. you are yourself, not tied to one nation's views....but looking from a more global perspective, not one nation's agenda...but the whole.
and 'cute'...? yea, b/c that's what i am saying...that i want to abandon home and country...instead of seeing it for what i actually meant...that it's simply a great feeling to feel a part of the world, rather than just one place.
no where did i say feeling a part of your home is a bad thing. i LOVE my home, but that doesn't mean i can't also love feeling a part of the larger community, out of my little village, my state, my country. it IS possible to feel, and appreciate both. if that's 'cute'...so be it.
i don't know why it continues to amaze me how some take a few lines, and what they infer from them....all on their own...entirely seperate from their actual meaning and what was insinuated.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Why not?
naděje umírá poslední
eh well, the fact that you used the exact phrasing as did just a couple posts earlier....and i didn't personally read anyone else use that same phrasing....yes, my mistake then. however, my point still stands.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
And the river opens for the righteous [5x]
Someday
I was walking with my brother
And he wondered what's on my mind
I said what I believe in my soul
Ain't what I see with my eyes
And we can't turn our backs this time
I am a patriot
And I love my county
Because my country is all I know
I want to be with my family
The people who understand me
I've got nowhere else to go
And the river opens for the righteous
And the river opens for the righteous
And the river opens for the righteous
Someday
And I was talking with my sister
She looked so fine
I said, "Baby, what's on your mind?"
She said, "I want to run like the lion
Released from the cages
Released from the rages
Burning in my heart tonight"
And I ain't no communist
And I ain't no capitalist
And I ain't no socialist
And I ain't no imperialist
And I ain't no democrat
And I ain't no republican
I only know one party
And it is freedom
I am, I am, I am
I am a patriot
And I love my country
Because my county is all I know
And the river opens for the righteous
And the river opens for the righteous
And the river opens for the righteous
Someday
And the river opens for the righteous
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
because I love america. I love the people, the culture, the cities, places to go and see, my family has been here for over 100 years. I want my kids to grow up here.
an if some no good liberal like you ever went a piss on my flagg, ide a popped a pellet in ure ass.Fair enoughyou can write all the shit you want.But to do somethin that low should get you the chair imo.
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.