I think a lot of American people know the stories about how their ancestors travelled to wherever they settled and how they set up a life for themselves. America is not that old, so it's fairly easy to trace your history back. These settlers and immigrants started something new. They wrote a constitution and made a flag. They had some losses, some successes.
My country has been around for ages. I can probably trace back where my ancestors lived, but sitting here now I don't have a clue. I don't know what they did, or why. I don't feel fond of our flag, the contitution is 'boring'. It's all history that does not mean anything to me personally.
I think there is a difference there... Anyone agree?
I wonder if this is why people pledge allegiance to flags and all that. But I could be wrong.
Darn, it's Friday afternoon and my brain is fried. Sorry
I agree. I don't really care about my history. I think having pride in something someone else did is kind of silly. Heck, I think pride is just kind of silly in general.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It's stupid to piss on anyone's flag. It's just disrespectful. It's fine if you personally think flags have no purpose or value, but you don't have to be disrespectful to those who feel otherwise. If you do, you're being just as arrogant as anyone who says "my country is the best." It would make you a hypocrite.
It's stupid to piss on anyone's flag. It's just disrespectful. It's fine if you personally think flags have no purpose or value, but you don't have to be disrespectful to those who feel otherwise. If you do, you're being just as arrogant as anyone who says "my country is the best." It would make you a hypocrite.
If they disagree then I'm emigrating to the highlands and changing my name to Byrnster McFungus!
you'd be most welcome buddy
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
It's stupid to piss on anyone's flag. It's just disrespectful. It's fine if you personally think flags have no purpose or value, but you don't have to be disrespectful to those who feel otherwise. If you do, you're being just as arrogant as anyone who says "my country is the best." It would make you a hypocrite.
The thing is if we judge an apple by the standard of oranges, it won't measure up. It has it's own standard.
If Byrnzie spits (or worse) on the flag, to him, maybe it's a statement of unity and doing away with the symbols that further pronounce an illusionary separation between humans.
To you, within your own context where you obviously believe in the symbol of the flag, you hear him and it sounds insulting to you. Both of you are right to have your own view, and to stand behind it. You are not right if you expect the other person to do what you think is right within your view, which is different from theirs. In other words, the confusion happens when we expect another to share the same view as we do, when they just don't. We're so blinded by our own view that we do not realize our view, and the other view both stand.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Actually, the flag doesn't mean much to me. I just think showing disrespect to other's beliefs will never get you very far in trying to make your point. It's not a matter of imposing my views of right and wrong on someone. If one wants to try to cast down symbols and such, he would do better to find another way to show the lack of value in the symbol. Pissing on it will just be a rallying cry to those who believe in it.
I agree that conflicting world views make it impossible to expect someone with a different view to interpret our actions in the way we intend. That's why, to effectively make your point, you should try to recognize and be rerspectful of the other's world view.
Because the flag is a symbol, as is the act of pissing on it. By performing the symbolic act of pissing on the flag, you are admitting that the flag is meaningful. Which from what I gather, you dont believe it should be meaningful, correct?
Actually, the flag doesn't mean much to me. I just think showing disrespect to toher's beliefs will never get you very far in trying to make your point. It's not a matter of imposing my views of right and wrong on someone. If one wants to try to cast down symbols and such, he would do better to find another way to show the lack of value in the symbol. Pissing on it will just be a rallying cry to those who believe in it.
A flag is just a piece of cloth. They're all mostly made in Korea. Why are people so precious about them?
Actually, the flag doesn't mean much to me. I just think showing disrespect to toher's beliefs will never get you very far in trying to make your point. It's not a matter of imposing my views of right and wrong on someone. If one wants to try to cast down symbols and such, he would do better to find another way to show the lack of value in the symbol. Pissing on it will just be a rallying cry to those who believe in it.
When you are busy seeing what a "better" way for him would be, you are very possibly overlooking what his actual natural Byrnzie-directed way is. And that's about your own view and agenda.
I can understand that he will hook all kinds of emotional responses by his irreverence. It's possible that's his intent--to hook people into these debates, even maybe for a "higher" purpose.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I can understand that he will hook all kinds of emotional responses by his irreverence. It's possible that's his intent--to hook people into these debates, even maybe for a "higher" purpose.
Thanks. You're right on both counts. I enjoy ruffling feathers, and I also have a higher purpose. That's not to say I'm always right, of course, but I like a gamble.
A flag is just a piece of cloth. They're all mostly made in Korea. Why are people so precious about them?
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on that. But unless you're in the habit of pissing on linens in general, the act of pissing is making a statement about the flag. I wouldn't piss on a flag because it makes about as much sense as pissing on a beach towel.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
They have as much meaning as we choose to give them. You've hit the nail on the head.
But pissing on the flag, either figuratively or literally, does give the flag meaning. In your first post you say the flag is as relevant to you as a turd (which I assume means its not relevant), but then you keep bringing up this point about pissing on it. You cant have it both ways, if it is irrevelant to you then this idea of pissing on it wouldnt matter in the least.
A nation state is not just a piece of land cordoned off by borders.
Patriotism defines a nation. If you are not patriotic, that is, you do not love your nation and what it stands for, you do not belong on the land that was obtained by that nation.
That's okay. You don't need to live here if you don't love this country. That's perfectly fine with me.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
They have as much meaning as we choose to give them. You've hit the nail on the head.
for me, both have alot of meaning.
the flag is a representative symbol of the country I was born, raised, and live in. I may not always agree with the countries polices on everything but thats partly what makes america great. I can disagree.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on that. But unless you're in the habit of pissing on linens in general, the act of pissing is making a statement about the flag. I wouldn't piss on a flag because it makes about as much sense as pissing on a beach towel.
Depends who the beach towel belongs to. If I saw P Diddy on a beach in Miami and I had the chance to violate his towel and make him stink of piss for an hour or so, I'd jump at the chance.
We only live once afterall!
But pissing on the flag, either figuratively or literally, does give the flag meaning. In your first post you say the flag is as relevant to you as a turd (which I assume means its not relevant), but then you keep bringing up this point about pissing on it. You cant have it both ways, if it is irrevelant to you then this idea of pissing on it wouldnt matter in the least.
I think we're getting slightly carried away in some sort of semantic nightmare here.
Works over, and so I'm off down the pub.
Thanks for your input.
It's been emotional!
Depends who the beach towel belongs to. If I saw P Diddy on a beach in Miami and I had the chance to violate his towel and make him stink of piss for an hour or so, I'd jump at the chance.
We only live once afterall!
Now that DOES make sense. If you ever have the opportunity to piss on P. Diddy's towel, or his flag, by all means go for it
As to the more general point of simply pissing on a flag, I still say that unless you would piss on another meaningless piece of cloth, it doesn't make sense to piss on a flag. If you do, you're acknowledging that it does in fact have some symbolic meaning that you disprespect.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Comments
I agree. I don't really care about my history. I think having pride in something someone else did is kind of silly. Heck, I think pride is just kind of silly in general.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
08/02/07 - LOLLA!!!
Thanks Bill!
I love America too. I'd still piss on it's flag though.
why?
Because I'm a revolutionary romantic idealist.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
What, even if I was caught short?
you'd be most welcome buddy
The thing is if we judge an apple by the standard of oranges, it won't measure up. It has it's own standard.
If Byrnzie spits (or worse) on the flag, to him, maybe it's a statement of unity and doing away with the symbols that further pronounce an illusionary separation between humans.
To you, within your own context where you obviously believe in the symbol of the flag, you hear him and it sounds insulting to you. Both of you are right to have your own view, and to stand behind it. You are not right if you expect the other person to do what you think is right within your view, which is different from theirs. In other words, the confusion happens when we expect another to share the same view as we do, when they just don't. We're so blinded by our own view that we do not realize our view, and the other view both stand.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I'm not big on flags or patriotism as I said, but hippiemom is right on this one. You've just given it importance by that act.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
My ears have pricked up. Please elaborate.
Cheers my man!
I agree that conflicting world views make it impossible to expect someone with a different view to interpret our actions in the way we intend. That's why, to effectively make your point, you should try to recognize and be rerspectful of the other's world view.
Because the flag is a symbol, as is the act of pissing on it. By performing the symbolic act of pissing on the flag, you are admitting that the flag is meaningful. Which from what I gather, you dont believe it should be meaningful, correct?
A flag is just a piece of cloth. They're all mostly made in Korea. Why are people so precious about them?
I can understand that he will hook all kinds of emotional responses by his irreverence. It's possible that's his intent--to hook people into these debates, even maybe for a "higher" purpose.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
and money is just a piece of paper with ink on it. both have meaning.
Thanks. You're right on both counts. I enjoy ruffling feathers, and I also have a higher purpose. That's not to say I'm always right, of course, but I like a gamble.
They have as much meaning as we choose to give them. You've hit the nail on the head.
But pissing on the flag, either figuratively or literally, does give the flag meaning. In your first post you say the flag is as relevant to you as a turd (which I assume means its not relevant), but then you keep bringing up this point about pissing on it. You cant have it both ways, if it is irrevelant to you then this idea of pissing on it wouldnt matter in the least.
Patriotism defines a nation. If you are not patriotic, that is, you do not love your nation and what it stands for, you do not belong on the land that was obtained by that nation.
That's okay. You don't need to live here if you don't love this country. That's perfectly fine with me.
-Enoch Powell
for me, both have alot of meaning.
the flag is a representative symbol of the country I was born, raised, and live in. I may not always agree with the countries polices on everything but thats partly what makes america great. I can disagree.
Depends who the beach towel belongs to. If I saw P Diddy on a beach in Miami and I had the chance to violate his towel and make him stink of piss for an hour or so, I'd jump at the chance.
We only live once afterall!
I think we're getting slightly carried away in some sort of semantic nightmare here.
Works over, and so I'm off down the pub.
Thanks for your input.
It's been emotional!
As to the more general point of simply pissing on a flag, I still say that unless you would piss on another meaningless piece of cloth, it doesn't make sense to piss on a flag. If you do, you're acknowledging that it does in fact have some symbolic meaning that you disprespect.