Interesting thought I had.

scw156

PJammin' wrote:

for once you speak some kind of truth. God says it and i DO believe it. He DOES say some people will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. is that MY fault? i don't wish harm on ANYONE, and i wish EVERYONE could be in heaven, but it's not my choice in what people decide to believe. i'm not one of those radicals who tries to change someone's beliefs by force. if you don't believe in any of it, what's it matter what "I" believe. go about your life and don't get so bent out of shape. i accept people just fine. going back to the first post in this thread, i treat someone who is homosexual just like the way i would want to be treated. does that mean i agree with the lifestyle? no. they live their life and i live mine. we can still be peaceful with one another.

You're the type of person who will smile at a gay man, shake his hand, say "Hey, nice to meet you! Nice day isn't it?" all the while thinking in your head "Boy is this guy screwed".

PJammin' wrote:

i never said to anyone that they are going to a bad place either because i'm not the final judge on their life; but if you keep disobeying God's word, yes, people WILL go to a bad place. that's what "I" believe. if in any way you feel your understanding is inferior, that's your own fault. i don't see mr. ahnimus feeling inferior about his beliefs. take a page out of his book. listen, i don't hide behind Bible talk. it's not some book to me, it's God's Word and i'll defend it to the end. dislike me all you want. i expect to get attacked by certain people. it doesn't change the fact that i like you and i wouldn't want anything bad to happen to you.

I never once said you are the judge. That doesn't mean you aren't saying people are going to a bad place. You "KNOW" they are (from Gods word and you take Gods word as the truth)...

I never said i feel my understanding is inferior. YOU implied it was with your statements, big difference. Also, I won't take a page from ahnimus' book... I agree with many things he says. however, he likes to go on and on and on and on essentially trying to make people see it his way. I'm going on and on to some extent here, but I'm more focused on discussing a problem I have with the way you act then convincing you to think like me.

Obviously you believe so strongly that you will defend it to the end... which it comes off being close minded and almost has a superiority feel to it. You stated you have a Catholic background, more specifically within the church. So during that time didn't you think it was the TRUTH and believe in that? and then you saw what priests did etc. and decide to move it to strictly the Bible and now view that as the TRUTH? How do you know in X amount of time something else wont occur where it changes again? what of the TRUTH you fight for so hard now?

Forgive me, I'm not as well versed on the Bible as I used to be and I hate to try to bring up points about it... but you said the Bible was combined over 1500 years, and Luke, Mark etc. were entrusted by God to convey the word... well they didn't live 1500 years to write it all down, also, unless they wrote a million copies of it themselves there had to be some OTHER person in the past 2000 years to take a hand at making a new copy. Don't you think they may have translated wrong, spelled wrong, forgot something? or did God see that and come in with his white out?

PJammin' wrote:

i don't follow a path i think is correct. i follow a path i know in my heart is correct. i'll continue to follow the Bible and "vomit" out verses because that's my truth. call me a robot, call me whatever you want. at least i feel content with being a robot for God. by the way, Jesus LOVES $1.99 tacos on any day.

You have strong beliefs and argue strong. Almost so hard its blind following. Close mindedness, no room to budge, no room to explore or no room to change. A pretty narrow path if you ask me. I don't have extreme rigid beliefs like you. I'll modify them as I learn more things, experience more things, and become wiser. I won't limit my knowledge/experiences to a couple hundred pages of text.

I'm not trying to make you think like me.. Its more like how you might feel sad or feel bad for someone who is going to hell. i kinda feel bad for you because in my eyes you have a narrow view. This probably came out wrong but I'm not trying to insult you.

To each his own.

I cant ever remember encountering someone as hardcore to the Bible as you.
it's foreign to me and seems like you aren't a "real" person... like you don't have personal feelings, emotions, etc. you just react, feel, act, have emotions that that book tells you to have.

I think I'm having a major hang up on the fact you don't seem like a human.
I hope there is more to you than the Bible. it seems like you have narrowed your beliefs down so much that you could be missing some cool things out there.



Let's just move on to something new. Sometimes my tendency to debate and argue on and on gets the best of me.

PJammin'

Ahnimus wrote:

You basically just ignored everything I said and quoted scripture. Scripture that I just said was falsifiable.

lets face it, mr. ahnimus, we're never going to agree. your word says it's false. God's Word says it's true. i'm going with God everytime. even if i had to make a hypothesis, i'd rather go with a document written by someone who was close to the event rather than some archaelogists trying to figure out what happened at the scene thousands of years later. the bottom line is God parted the water, if you want to say it's the Reed Sea, fine. i'm off to bed. night.

Collin

PJammin' wrote:

you don't even know what you say. you're mocking Him by challenging His Power to even transform people.

True, though I do not consider it mocking. I'll be honest, I have no faith. I don't believe in god at all, any god. I don't think religious people are silly, stupid, sheep etc. by default.
I think you are write when you say that I don't know what I say. I don't know what you consider mocking. I am critical and I will not hide my beliefs because they might offend someone, I will try to do it respectfully, though. If I have failed sorry.

you're no better than the ones testing Jesus to take Himself off of the cross.

You're probably right about that.

didn't YOU write this below.

I didn't, Christians did. Christians who say god hates fags, please don't tell me you are defending these guys? I think they are a very poor representative of your faith. I won't apologize for mocking these guys.

i believe you did. that, my friend, is challenging, defying, mocking, God. you're making fun of this and Him by even saying it's not possible for someone to change their life around.

I'm sure people can change, more or less, I just don't think they should. If they want to, that's great for them even better if they find support and comfort in god and fellow Christians. But I just don't like it when people push other people in a certain direction and it seems to me these people are doing exactly that.

didn't YOU mock God by being sarcastic and trying to be funny by saying Mike is God.

That was a joke. If you can tell the difference between a joke and mocking someone, I feel sorry for you. By your defintion you were mocking me by mocking my beliefs that there is no god. I don't care. You have your beliefs I have mine, it should be too hard to live together peacefully, millions of people do it everyday and I believe humour can help people accept and live together. If you didn't think it was funny, ok, don't say I was mocking you or your beliefs.

maybe Mike IS your God.

As close as it gets for me I don't worship people, though

i love Mike too, i've met him and he's an awesome guy

Nice.

you can mock God all you want about did HE write the Bible, or Jesus, or "some other" dude, but do not be deceived, God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.

God did not write the people, neither did Jesus. Man did.

Collin

onelongsong wrote:

collin is really a good guy. misguided i believe; but he too was created by God and thus you must accept him for who he is. i'm in no way defending his offensive behavior. his comments were way out of line. if someone verbally attacked his wife; mother; father; etc; he'd be angry. he attacked your beliefs and it made you angry. but i believe it's best to forgive him because he doesn't have the knowledge and understanding you have.

I don't think I'm any more offensive than anyone else in this thread. My comments were way out of line? When?

I'll be honest if you guys agree with the god hates fags posse, I won't apologize.

PJammin'

scw156 wrote:

You're the type of person who will smile at a gay man, shake his hand, say "Hey, nice to meet you! Nice day isn't it?" all the while thinking in your head "Boy is this guy screwed".

now you're telling me what type of man i am. i didn't know that you wanted to play God now. let me make myself clear. nobody is screwed until the final judgement is placed on them by God. up until that point they have the opportunity to right their situation.

I never once said you are the judge. That doesn't mean you aren't saying people are going to a bad place. You "KNOW" they are (from Gods word and you take Gods word as the truth)...

God says not everyone will inherit the kingdom of heaven. so yes, i take His word for it.

I never said i feel my understanding is inferior. YOU implied it was with your statements, big difference. Also, I won't take a page from ahnimus' book... I agree with many things he says. however, he likes to go on and on and on and on essentially trying to make people see it his way. I'm going on and on to some extent here, but I'm more focused on discussing a problem I have with the way you act then convincing you to think like me.

i see your focused and i'm here to focus the answers right back on this matter, your problem with the way i act. mr. ahnimus doesn't hurt anyone by going on and on. i actually enjoy reading his thoughts on certain matters. you learn from people like him.

Obviously you believe so strongly that you will defend it to the end... which it comes off being close minded and almost has a superiority feel to it. You stated you have a Catholic background, more specifically within the church. So during that time didn't you think it was the TRUTH and believe in that? and then you saw what priests did etc. and decide to move it to strictly the Bible and now view that as the TRUTH? How do you know in X amount of time something else wont occur where it changes again? what of the TRUTH you fight for so hard now?

yes, you better believe i will defend God. i have just as much right as anyone to speak my mind on this subject. i don't need to be open minded about someone telling me to follow someone other than Jesus Christ. if you have a rolls royce, why would you want a yugo? i do have a catholic background, but when you're a child your thoughts aren't fully formed. when you're an adult, you put the child behind. you gain understanding, knowledge, and you aren't in the hands of others. if your five years old, how do you tell your parents i'm not a catholic. you don't even know what a catholic is at that point. the bible is used in the catholic church, so it's still the truth. i just don't agree with certain catholic customs. and you're talking about X amount of time, but Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Forgive me, I'm not as well versed on the Bible as I used to be and I hate to try to bring up points about it... but you said the Bible was combined over 1500 years, and Luke, Mark etc. were entrusted by God to convey the word... well they didn't live 1500 years to write it all down, also, unless they wrote a million copies of it themselves there had to be some OTHER person in the past 2000 years to take a hand at making a new copy. Don't you think they may have translated wrong, spelled wrong, forgot something? or did God see that and come in with his white out?

when i was talking about a span of 1500 years, i was talking about all of the bible. not just the new testament. God's Word came to more people than mathew, mark, luke, and john. i mean, case in point, didn't Christ have twelve disciples? also, when you're talking about the people of israel and God, they were precise about the Word of God and documenting it responsibly. for example, you can see how precise they were just by Jesus' words to the chief priests, scribes, and pharisees.

You have strong beliefs and argue strong. Almost so hard its blind following. Close mindedness, no room to budge, no room to explore or no room to change. A pretty narrow path if you ask me. I don't have extreme rigid beliefs like you. I'll modify them as I learn more things, experience more things, and become wiser. I won't limit my knowledge/experiences to a couple hundred pages of text.

you're right when you say there's no room to budge. anyone trying to teach me any other doctrines than Christ i won't be open to. Christ gives my body life so why would i want to change. you're also right when you say it's a narrow path. He even talked about it: Mathew 7:13,14. i'm not limiting my knowledge to a couple hundred pages of texts, i'm expanding my knowledge with 1763 pages of text.

I'm not trying to make you think like me.. Its more like how you might feel sad or feel bad for someone who is going to hell. i kinda feel bad for you because in my eyes you have a narrow view. This probably came out wrong but I'm not trying to insult you.

To each his own.

i do have compassion for people, but their life is in their own hands. i didn't convince jeffery dahmer to be a murderer. you reap what you sow. if you go against God, i'd say your chances are slim you'll make it into His kingdom. no need to feel sorry for me, i'm happy; and i'm not insulted.

I cant ever remember encountering someone as hardcore to the Bible as you. it's foreign to me and seems like you aren't a "real" person... like you don't have personal feelings, emotions, etc. you just react, feel, act, have emotions that that book tells you to have.

i'm very much my own person, and i have strong emotions and feelings. people on this board that have spent time with me can testify to that comment. i'm thankful for the people i can call my friends. they know who they are, and they are lovely.

I think I'm having a major hang up on the fact you don't seem like a human. I hope there is more to you than the Bible. it seems like you have narrowed your beliefs down so much that you could be missing some cool things out there.

i've been fortunate to be a part of A LOT of cool things, Pearl Jam at Benaroya being just one of them. i enjoy my life, so no need to think that way about me.

PJammin'

Collin wrote:

I don't think religious people are silly, stupid, sheep etc. by default. I am critical and I will not hide my beliefs because they might offend someone, I will try to do it respectfully, though. If I have failed sorry.

i like sheep. sheep are cute. it's ok, i'm not offended.

I didn't, Christians did. Christians who say god hates fags, please don't tell me you are defending these guys? I think they are a very poor representative of your faith. I won't apologize for mocking these guys.

you copied and pasted it. you were still making fun of it. i'm not of the belief that God hates the human being, i'm of the belief God hates the sinful nature. please don't lump me in with Christians who claim that God hates fags.

so the original poster had a point. you won't mock gays because they are people, but you WILL mock people who believe in God who set up a place to try and help gay people who are WILLING to change.

I'm sure people can change, more or less, I just don't think they should. If they want to, that's great for them even better if they find support and comfort in god and fellow Christians. But I just don't like it when people push other people in a certain direction and it seems to me these people are doing exactly that.

it's up to the person if they want to change. nobody can push or change someone because it's not in their power.

That was a joke. If you can tell the difference between a joke and mocking someone, I feel sorry for you. By your defintion you were mocking me by mocking my beliefs that there is no god. I don't care. You have your beliefs I have mine, it should be too hard to live together peacefully, millions of people do it everyday and I believe humour can help people accept and live together. If you didn't think it was funny, ok, don't say I was mocking you or your beliefs.

it was a joke, but you're making a mockery out of God. yet, where is your mockery of gays? you wouldn't want to mock gays because you want to be respectful, right? they are people. you wouldn't want to offend anyone on this board. who knows, you could be confronted with them in the future. but God's not a person, or either are the ones who believe in Him, so it's ok. i get ya. you're grasping for straws, my friend. speak the truth.

As close as it gets for me I don't worship people, though

no, according to you, you don't worship anything. you're your own God.

God did not write the people, neither did Jesus. Man did.

you mean the Bible. nope, nothing in the Bible was written by God: Exodus 31:18.

like mr. scw156 said, "to each his own."

gue_barium

Hooray for our side.

Ahnimus

PJammin' wrote:

lets face it, mr. ahnimus, we're never going to agree. your word says it's false. God's Word says it's true. i'm going with God everytime. even if i had to make a hypothesis, i'd rather go with a document written by someone who was close to the event rather than some archaelogists trying to figure out what happened at the scene thousands of years later. the bottom line is God parted the water, if you want to say it's the Reed Sea, fine. i'm off to bed. night.

No, I'm not saying that some jews didn't wander around for 40 years and then this happened at Yam Suph. I'm saying there are undeniable differences between the hebrew texts and the king james bible, which means either God's word is wrong or the King James bible is wrong. Either way, it's hardly perfection and that is what I'm arguing. And there is no huge body of water at Yam Suph

Here are a couple of maps for you plotting the path of exodus, according to original scripture. Somehow this all got changed in the King James version. Then if you ask me, Moses discovered psychadelics when he met the "burning bush".

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bibleorigins.net/MVC-196S.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.bibleorigins.net/MapofPihahirothEthamShurYamSuph.html&h=480&w=640&sz=37&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=1GonrUUy60VesM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dyam%2Bsuph%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/J_Transp/ExodusMap.GIF

You can quote scripture all day, but most of us are quite familiar with the bible. I was raised a christian and attended communion and confirmation, I was baptised and went to church every sunday. I know the religion quite well, but I went deeper and found a lot of inconsistencies and falsehoods.

scw156

Ahnimus wrote:

No, I'm not saying that some jews didn't wander around for 40 years and then this happened at Yam Suph. I'm saying there are undeniable differences between the hebrew texts and the king james bible, which means either God's word is wrong or the King James bible is wrong. Either way, it's hardly perfection and that is what I'm arguing. And there is no huge body of water at Yam Suph

Here are a couple of maps for you plotting the path of exodus, according to original scripture. Somehow this all got changed in the King James version. Then if you ask me, Moses discovered psychadelics when he met the "burning bush".

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bibleorigins.net/MVC-196S.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.bibleorigins.net/MapofPihahirothEthamShurYamSuph.html&h=480&w=640&sz=37&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=1GonrUUy60VesM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dyam%2Bsuph%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/J_Transp/ExodusMap.GIF

You can quote scripture all day, but most of us are quite familiar with the bible. I was raised a christian and attended communion and confirmation, I was baptised and went to church every sunday. I know the religion quite well, but I went deeper and found a lot of inconsistencies and falsehoods.

true dat, bot

ForestBrain

Ahnimus wrote:

Because your delusional belief in this God entity and this ridiculous old book causes you to be perjudice against homosexuality. The point of view I discuss requires a mutual understanding of everyone regardless of their predispositions.

Well, I think you're delusional. I don't think being gay is okay, but I don't treat gay people any differently than I treat anybody else. To me, all sin is the same, and I would be wrong to treat somebody who lies differently than a gay person. So whatever you're trying to prove is pointless on me.

Ahnimus

ForestBrain wrote:

Well, I think you're delusional. I don't think being gay is okay, but I don't treat gay people any differently than I treat anybody else. To me, all sin is the same, and I would be wrong to treat somebody who lies differently than a gay person. So whatever you're trying to prove is pointless on me.

Exactly, you equate liar with homosexual. You are adding a negative percept to the status of an individual's sexual drive. If you said "I don't think of black people any different than liars" you'd have a huge problem on your hands, wouldn't you?

You shouldn't think of homosexuals and liars as being equal, and news-flash pretty much everyone lies to some degree, just try breaking out of it, I have and it's gotten me in a lot of trouble. Most people don't want honesty, they want to be lied to. They can't handle the truth.

ForestBrain

Being a homosexual isn't something somebody is born with. It's not a sin to be black. It is a sin to be a homosexual.

hippiemom

ForestBrain wrote:

Being a homosexual isn't something somebody is born with. It's not a sin to be black. It is a sin to be a homosexual.

:rolleyes:

jeffbr

hippiemom wrote:

:rolleyes:

+1

Rushlimbo

ForestBrain wrote:

Being a homosexual isn't something somebody is born with. It's not a sin to be black. It is a sin to be a homosexual.

Maybe you should throw the first stone then ......

Ahnimus

ForestBrain wrote:

Being a homosexual isn't something somebody is born with. It's not a sin to be black. It is a sin to be a homosexual.

It is something people are born with. If you'd take your face out of the 4,000 year old bible and put it in a 1 or 2 year old biology textbook you'd know that.

catefrances

PJammin' wrote:

i like sheep. sheep are cute. it's ok, i'm not offended.

you should be offended, cause sheep are stupid and when someone equates you to a sheep that's basically what they're saying. that you have no common sense and no ability to think for yourself. that you mindlessly follow without question. it was not a compliment.

deadmosquito

ForestBrain wrote:

But what if a person doesn't believe somebody is born gay? What if I believe it's a choice? And what if some people are so convinced by what they have seen or gone through, that they have no choice?

I don't believe being gay is something somebody is born with. That right there itself is an idea, not a truth. Nobody can prove being gay is something you're born with, it's just something some people believe. That there is a God cannot be proved, it's a matter of faith.

I myself am a Christian, and I believe people who mock God are devil possessed, as are gays. But that's going to make a lot of people mad at me, I don't care, but it's a statement I am making. Would I get on tv and mock them? No.

I get offended when people mock God, but nobody cares. But if somebody mocks a gay, everybody gets ticked off. Makes no sense and it's typical of the times.

who gives a shit if YOU believe being gay isn't something you're born with. as a gay guy, i KNOW it was. i fought against it as much as i possibly could and guess what, all it did was make me suicidal and a crappy person in basically every way. after i realized that i couldn't change somethign that i was born with, i became a much better person. it's ridiculous for you, someone who is not gay, to say "people aren't born gay." how the fuck would you know?

deadmosquito

ForestBrain wrote:

Being a homosexual isn't something somebody is born with. It's not a sin to be black. It is a sin to be a homosexual.

it should be a sin to be ignorant of biological fact. then, maybe i could think of you as "no different from a person who lies." get off your high horse.

Ahnimus

deadmosquito wrote:

who gives a shit if YOU believe being gay isn't something you're born with. as a gay guy, i KNOW it was. i fought against it as much as i possibly could and guess what, all it did was make me suicidal and a crappy person in basically every way. after i realized that i couldn't change somethign that i was born with, i became a much better person. it's ridiculous for you, someone who is not gay, to say "people aren't born gay." how the fuck would you know?

Because God said so. Many religious people don't read new information like J. Michael Bailey and Richard Pillards research into sex drive. They just figure that the old bible will answer all their questions. And in this case modern science and testimony contradicts God's word, so they have to be wrong, because God is infallable. That's my only issue with religion.