i already gave the explaination. you're not God's if you're following something else. you're THEIR child. what about THEIR love? blame them.
WHO exactly? WHOS child am I? Why is God not responsible when we're speaking of a negative event? What you have just said is, in the context of both your beliefs and your arguement, is ridiculous.
~*~*~*~*PROUD EVENFLOW PSYCHO #0026~*~*~*~*
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
well, looking it from your angle, if hell happens to be in fact a real place, and God does turn out to exist in the end, you'll be burning in a hotter hell than those poor people did in the wtc. i'm personally not willing to push God's book into the disney pile.
Matthew 12:50
So basically what you are saying is that you only belive in god and the bible because your scared of fairy tales.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
WHO exactly? WHOS child am I? Why is God not responsible when we're speaking of a negative event? What you have just said is, in the context of both your beliefs and your arguement, is ridiculous.
answer your OWN question. you're the child of who you follow. i don't know about YOU, but i'm speaking of a positive event, and that event is the resurrection of Jesus Christ. i just celebrated it a week ago.
I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
it's ok to say, "f--- God," as was said, but treat the homosexual with the utmost care. i'm not giving what is holy to the dogs.
Why? Becuase homosexuality is a pesonal choice, religion is forced upon millions every fucking day without their consent or understanding, because idiots like the poster that started this thread is so enslaved to a fucking scare story that he has developed an intolerance for someones sexual preference.
~*~*~*~*PROUD EVENFLOW PSYCHO #0026~*~*~*~*
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
Why? Becuase homosexuality is a pesonal choice, religion is forced upon millions every fucking day without their consent or understanding, because idiots like the poster that started this thread is so enslaved to a fucking scare story that he has developed an intolerance for someones sexual preference.
give me a break. there are other things that are forced upon us too. like i care about listening to all of this celebrity gossip. ignore it. why do YOU care so much? are YOU gay?
you're calling the poster an idiot just because he posed the question? you don't know him, and you don't know how he treats people. but i can see you like calling people idiots.
I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
PJammin' He's your truth. And that's great. But please don't tell me He's mine.
Or that I was born a sinner.
I'm finding that a bit disrespectful actually.
You are completely entitled to your beliefs and I admire you the strength of your convictions, but I would prefer you accorded me the same courtesy.
i'm sorry, i'm speaking from myself. your beliefs have no effect on what i say, right? so it shouldn't matter. if ANYONE should feel disrespected it is ME. look back on some of the posts and you'll see what i'm talking about. if you don't want to hear people's thoughts on this matter, put this thread on ignore. worse things happen on this board than in this thread. i apologize if it bothers you.
edit: i edited my former post for you, Jeanie.
I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
maybe it has something to do with the impact they've had on society. Whens the last time you've heard about a war breaking out because someone's trying to turn someone else into a homosexual. Religion is held in such disrespect around here because people have used it to push their own agendas, to create a median for their violence, or to fill their pockets with money. And I don't think most people have a beef with god. Either you believe in him or you dont. But Religion=God to many people so when you insult religion...you insult god.
cate, i was going to leave you alone, but i see you came back for more. i dismiss zues, etc., because they are not the ones who died for me. i personally have MY OWN PROOF of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. i'm not going to share EVERYTHING on this board, some people will only cheapen it. i think i have enough sense after reading 700 plus posts in this thread. it's ok to say, "f--- God," as was said, but treat the homosexual with the utmost care. i'm not giving what is holy to the dogs.
it was only a question. i have often wondered why the disparate views on zues and pals and the christian god. i understand your reticence in answering me and i respect you not wanting to share everything with the board. it's not as if i share everything. you see it as a mocking question perhaps. it was not.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Religion is held in such disrespect around here because people have used it to push their own agendas, to create a median for their violence, or to fill their pockets with money.
very well said. as far as homosexuals, the ones i've met have all been nice people. in fact, they don't start trouble like the people who use religion for their own gain.
I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
i'm sorry, i'm speaking from myself. your beliefs have no effect on what i say, right? so it shouldn't matter. if ANYONE should feel disrespected it is ME. look back on some of the posts and you'll see what i'm talking about. if you don't want to hear people's thoughts on this matter, put this thread on ignore. worse things happen on this board than in this thread. i apologize if it bothers you.
edit: i edited my former post for you, Jeanie.
I've read through the thread intermittently and will probably keep doing so.
It's an interesting thread, with lots of different views and opinions.
All of them valid to the person posting them.
In order for me to understand, I need to continue reading, however I do not share all of the views of all of the people all of the time on this thread.
I would say this, as my own view, "I may not agree with what you say but I defend to the death your right to say it." (probably didn't quote that correctly but that's the general gist of my view.
i believe in God because He's MY truth. i'm scared of a fairy tale as much as i'm scared of an ant.
Well thats not how what you said came across. You sound very much like you were scared and so by believing you were taking the safest bet.
And as far as i'm concerned that sounded nothing like i believe because want to, only because it's safer to.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
the big one is good people go to hell becos they didn't read the bible and worship jesus, or picked the wrong religion. that's plain fucked up. then there's the whole jesus being god thing.
there are many compelling reasons to believe in Jesus, but if you're not willing to seek Him out the answers won't come.
i've yet to see any that are more compelling than the reasons islam or hindu offer to support their beliefs. you're all equal in terms of reason. i've had plenty of time to get to know jesus dude. it's not a matter of seeking or lack of answers.
well, looking it from your angle, if hell happens to be in fact a real place, and God does turn out to exist in the end, you'll be burning in a hotter hell than those poor people did in the wtc. i'm personally not willing to push God's book into the disney pile.
sure, if it was god's book. im not convinced though. there are about 15 different versions of the bible now. which one is it? muslims say the koran is god's book. you're willing to push that into the disney pile.
cate, i was going to leave you alone, but i see you came back for more. i dismiss zues, etc., because they are not the ones who died for me. i personally have MY OWN PROOF of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. i'm not going to share EVERYTHING on this board, some people will only cheapen it. i think i have enough sense after reading 700 plus posts in this thread. it's ok to say, "f--- God," as was said, but treat the homosexual with the utmost care. i'm not giving what is holy to the dogs.
that i can accept, having had a pretty powerful spiritual experience myself. i wouldnt share it here either. but that makes more sense in terms of your conviction than anything else you've said thus far. the fact is, no religion is compelling in a logical or factual sense. i think you have to have some sort of connection like the one you're hinting at here to truly get religion. otherwise, it's always going to seem fatally contradictory and mythical.
let me get this straight. from reading your words, you're putting YOUR love above God's. that is amusing to me since GOD IS LOVE:
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God...(Romans 4:7)
...for God is love.(Romans 4,8)
In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.(Romans 4:9,10)
God has done more than YOU could ever do for your kids. Jesus came in the flesh to be spat on, mocked, scourged, and crucified for His kids and they STILL turn their backs on Him. let me see the day you do that for your kids then we'll talk. if your kids didn't love and respect you, you'd have to live with it, right? that's what you said. you'd JUST have to live with it. let them do what they want and feel how they want, but God went further even though the love and respect wasn't there, and as i can witness it's still not there. His own went against Him and delivered His Son to death. for what? for loving and trying to teach them the way of life, and a glorious life with HIM. God IS devastated that His children aren't close to Him, but even though He is devastated, He's STILL merciful, gracious, longsuffering. He STILL abounds in goodness and truth. He forgives more done to Him as a parent than you'll ever know. when your own children don't listen to you, don't they have to learn the hard way????? well, it's the same with God. you don't listen to God, you learn the hard way. when you go your own way, you're open to mistakes that cause yourself harm. ONCE AGAIN, THE HUMAN BEING PUTTING THE BLAME ON SOMEONE ELSE(GOD)WHEN THEY NEED TO LOOK AT THEMSELF FOR WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM, AND ALSO THE HARM THAT COMES UPON THEM. God has PERFECT unconditional love(not a human's love), more people should take a hint and imitate the word which defines God. i was going to keep this to myself, but i decided i'd put it out in the open because it's important and God's no joke. He can require your life from you in an instant. say what you want, but i'd be easy with your words on badmouthing Him and His love. if you keep bad mouthing God and something tragic happens in your life, in some kind of bizarre way, you'll remember my words. don't say i didn't warn you.
peace. i'm done for the night. quite frankly, i don't know how much longer i'll stay in this thread. i'm sure all of you will be happy.
Well, let's compare ... here's a short list of differences between how I treat my children and how god treats his:
1. I'm here, physically present every day of their lives. I didn't have someone else hand them a book, written by a third party, filled with things I supposedly said, some of which are confusing, some of which are contradictory, and all of which are unverifiable, and expect my kids to follow that book to the letter on pain of death.
2. There is nothing my children could do which would compel me to send them to an eternity of suffering.
3. When I want my kids to do something, I am very clear about it. I don't give them riddles and stories to decipher, I don't have someone else pass the word along for me. If they fail to do as I asked because I failed to make myself clear, that is MY failing and not theirs.
4. I do not ask them to do things that are impossible for their stage of development and then expect them to beg my forgiveness for not being able to do them.
5. No one has to die, either as payment or punishment for wrongdoings. I don't have to sacrifice myself or my child, I don't threaten my children with death, I don't ask that they kill anyone else ... not even as a test just to see if they'd do it.
6. If my kids did not love and respect me, I would assume that it was my own damn fault for not behaving in a way that is lovable and respectable.
As I said, that's just the short list, off the top of my head. Sorry, but your god does not impress me with his great love.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Well, let's compare ... here's a short list of differences between how I treat my children and how god treats his:
1. I'm here, physically present every day of their lives. I didn't have someone else hand them a book, written by a third party, filled with things I supposedly said, some of which are confusing, some of which are contradictory, and all of which are unverifiable, and expect my kids to follow that book to the letter on pain of death.
2. There is nothing my children could do which would compel me to send them to an eternity of suffering.
3. When I want my kids to do something, I am very clear about it. I don't give them riddles and stories to decipher, I don't have someone else pass the word along for me. If they fail to do as I asked because I failed to make myself clear, that is MY failing and not theirs.
4. I do not ask them to do things that are impossible for their stage of development and then expect them to beg my forgiveness for not being able to do them.
5. No one has to die, either as payment or punishment for wrongdoings. I don't have to sacrifice myself or my child, I don't threaten my children with death, I don't ask that they kill anyone else ... not even as a test just to see if they'd do it.
6. If my kids did not love and respect me, I would assume that it was my own damn fault for not behaving in a way that is lovable and respectable.
As I said, that's just the short list, off the top of my head. Sorry, but your god does not impress me with his great love.
Well, let's compare ... here's a short list of differences between how I treat my children and how god treats his:
1. I'm here, physically present every day of their lives. I didn't have someone else hand them a book, written by a third party, filled with things I supposedly said, some of which are confusing, some of which are contradictory, and all of which are unverifiable, and expect my kids to follow that book to the letter on pain of death.
2. There is nothing my children could do which would compel me to send them to an eternity of suffering.
3. When I want my kids to do something, I am very clear about it. I don't give them riddles and stories to decipher, I don't have someone else pass the word along for me. If they fail to do as I asked because I failed to make myself clear, that is MY failing and not theirs.
4. I do not ask them to do things that are impossible for their stage of development and then expect them to beg my forgiveness for not being able to do them.
5. No one has to die, either as payment or punishment for wrongdoings. I don't have to sacrifice myself or my child, I don't threaten my children with death, I don't ask that they kill anyone else ... not even as a test just to see if they'd do it.
6. If my kids did not love and respect me, I would assume that it was my own damn fault for not behaving in a way that is lovable and respectable.
As I said, that's just the short list, off the top of my head. Sorry, but your god does not impress me with his great love.
Well, let's compare ... here's a short list of differences between how I treat my children and how god treats his:
1. I'm here, physically present every day of their lives. I didn't have someone else hand them a book, written by a third party, filled with things I supposedly said, some of which are confusing, some of which are contradictory, and all of which are unverifiable, and expect my kids to follow that book to the letter on pain of death.
2. There is nothing my children could do which would compel me to send them to an eternity of suffering.
3. When I want my kids to do something, I am very clear about it. I don't give them riddles and stories to decipher, I don't have someone else pass the word along for me. If they fail to do as I asked because I failed to make myself clear, that is MY failing and not theirs.
4. I do not ask them to do things that are impossible for their stage of development and then expect them to beg my forgiveness for not being able to do them.
5. No one has to die, either as payment or punishment for wrongdoings. I don't have to sacrifice myself or my child, I don't threaten my children with death, I don't ask that they kill anyone else ... not even as a test just to see if they'd do it.
6. If my kids did not love and respect me, I would assume that it was my own damn fault for not behaving in a way that is lovable and respectable.
As I said, that's just the short list, off the top of my head. Sorry, but your god does not impress me with his great love.
Wow, amazing post! Well said.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Well, let's compare ... here's a short list of differences between how I treat my children and how god treats his:
1. I'm here, physically present every day of their lives. I didn't have someone else hand them a book, written by a third party, filled with things I supposedly said, some of which are confusing, some of which are contradictory, and all of which are unverifiable, and expect my kids to follow that book to the letter on pain of death.
2. There is nothing my children could do which would compel me to send them to an eternity of suffering.
3. When I want my kids to do something, I am very clear about it. I don't give them riddles and stories to decipher, I don't have someone else pass the word along for me. If they fail to do as I asked because I failed to make myself clear, that is MY failing and not theirs.
4. I do not ask them to do things that are impossible for their stage of development and then expect them to beg my forgiveness for not being able to do them.
5. No one has to die, either as payment or punishment for wrongdoings. I don't have to sacrifice myself or my child, I don't threaten my children with death, I don't ask that they kill anyone else ... not even as a test just to see if they'd do it.
6. If my kids did not love and respect me, I would assume that it was my own damn fault for not behaving in a way that is lovable and respectable.
As I said, that's just the short list, off the top of my head. Sorry, but your god does not impress me with his great love.
why do you pick the teachings of one organized religion and put so much into what they say that you assume they are right about God? what you listed has nothing to do with God. that is not God and i'm offended. i would feel much better if you had stated what teachings you were referring to. it seems you condemn all for the teachings of one.
why do you pick the teachings of one organized religion and put so much into what they say that you assume they are right about God? what you listed has nothing to do with God. that is not God and i'm offended. i would feel much better if you had stated what teachings you were referring to. it seems you condemn all for the teachings of one.
have you been following the thread? her response is a clear and direct rebuttal to some of the expressed beliefs of unconditional love made by christians about their beliefs in this thread. it was meant to respond to their concept of god and that alone. i dont think she claimed it was any more than that.
why do you pick the teachings of one organized religion and put so much into what they say that you assume they are right about God? what you listed has nothing to do with God. that is not God and i'm offended. i would feel much better if you had stated what teachings you were referring to. it seems you condemn all for the teachings of one.
It was a reply to PJammin', I believe. This is his god.
why do you pick the teachings of one organized religion and put so much into what they say that you assume they are right about God? what you listed has nothing to do with God. that is not God and i'm offended. i would feel much better if you had stated what teachings you were referring to. it seems you condemn all for the teachings of one.
Because I was responding to a bible-believing Christian. It was not meant as a statement on all spirituality. It was not in any way directed at your beliefs, so I don't understand why you'd be offended. I'm not condemning anyone, it's a debate. And incidentally, I thought I made it pretty clear that I think they are wrong about god.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
why do you pick the teachings of one organized religion and put so much into what they say that you assume they are right about God? what you listed has nothing to do with God. that is not God and i'm offended. i would feel much better if you had stated what teachings you were referring to. it seems you condemn all for the teachings of one.
Well, let's compare ... here's a short list of differences between how I treat my children and how god treats his:
i should've known the same band of non-believers would say your post was great. yeah, lets get to this list, hippiemom. i was expecting you to show up at some point.
1. I'm here, physically present every day of their lives. I didn't have someone else hand them a book, written by a third party, filled with things I supposedly said, some of which are confusing, some of which are contradictory, and all of which are unverifiable, and expect my kids to follow that book to the letter on pain of death.
first of all, God IS present in His children's lives. hippiemom, your mortal eye wouldn't even be able to handle His physical presense. look into the sun for a period of time and you'll go blind. God's light is far more superior than the sun in which He made. i don't know if i told you, or someone else, but God's physical presense would blow your humanly body away. so, God is present everyday of His childrens lives(Psalm 125:2). notice the words "this time and FOREVER."
the Bible is clearly God's Word. i already posted the answer to that, but i'll do it again(2 Peter 1:20,21). it CERTAINLY wasn't of a third party. you're mistaken. i'll address the confusing comment later, but God's Word is PERFECT. He doesn't contradict His own Word. once again, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. also, you don't have to expect your kids to follow God's Word. He has a way of putting His Word into the hearts of children in His own way, and even if they don't believe now, it doesn't mean that they never will.
2. There is nothing my children could do which would compel me to send them to an eternity of suffering.
it's simple, really. if you're not of God, you're of something else. so therefore, you're NOT God's child. how hard is that to understand????? i already explained that once.
3. When I want my kids to do something, I am very clear about it. I don't give them riddles and stories to decipher, I don't have someone else pass the word along for me. If they fail to do as I asked because I failed to make myself clear, that is MY failing and not theirs.
God is EXCEPTIONALLY clear about what He would like His children to do. the riddles i will get to with the confusing comment. if you deny Him, He denies YOU because you're not His child. your heart's not right with HIM. if your heart was right with Him then you'd hear Him. you're already listening to your parent, whoever you follow. if you follow zeus, then your parent is zeus. lastly, if human beings fail, it's because of them. God does not fail. Love never fails.(1 Corinthians 13:8). failure is not a part of Him.
4. I do not ask them to do things that are impossible for their stage of development and then expect them to beg my forgiveness for not being able to do them.
God doesn't ask for the impossible. you just misunderstand God and His love. did Jesus ask anyone to beg? no. in fact, He washed sinful men's feet. He lowered HIMSELF. He doesn't ask the IMPOSSIBLE, i don't think loving is the impossible.
5. No one has to die, either as payment or punishment for wrongdoings. I don't have to sacrifice myself or my child, I don't threaten my children with death, I don't ask that they kill anyone else ... not even as a test just to see if they'd do it.
did Jesus tell people to kill, or He Himself kill ANYONE? NO. He's the prince of peace. maybe you should look into this chaper and verse:
John 8:44
6. If my kids did not love and respect me, I would assume that it was my own damn fault for not behaving in a way that is lovable and respectable.
God always behaves in love. He has tremendous mercy and grace. God's children hear His voice and follow Him. there is GREAT love. it's NEVER God's fault. how can it be God's fault when God's Word is established, nothing can be added or taken away from it. He doesn't make mistakes.
As I said, that's just the short list, off the top of my head. Sorry, but your god does not impress me with his great love.
well, i'm impressed and in wonderment, so it suits me. now to the riddles and confusing speach you don't understand. here is the answer:
Matthew 13:14,15
I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
i should've known the same band of non-believers would say your post was great. yeah, lets get to this list, hippiemom. i was expecting you to show up at some point.
first of all, God IS present in His children's lives. hippiemom, your mortal eye wouldn't even be able to handle His physical presense. look into the sun for a period of time and you'll go blind. God's light is far more superior than the sun in which He made. i don't know if i told you, or someone else, but God's physical presense would blow your humanly body away. so, God is present everyday of His childrens lives(Psalm 125:2). notice the words "this time and FOREVER."
the Bible is clearly God's Word. i already posted the answer to that, but i'll do it again(2 Peter 1:20,21). it CERTAINLY wasn't of a third party. you're mistaken. i'll address the confusing comment later, but God's Word is PERFECT. He doesn't contradict His own Word. once again, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. also, you don't have to expect your kids to follow God's Word. He has a way of putting His Word into the hearts of children in His own way, and even if they don't believe now, it doesn't mean that they never will.
Again with the circular logic. The bible is the word of god. How do we know that? Because god said so. Where did he say it? In the bible. For some reason I find this unconvincing.
it's simple, really. if you're not of God, you're of something else. so therefore, you're NOT God's child. how hard is that to understand????? i already explained that once.
I was taught that we are all god's children, believers and non-believers alike. Different churches, I guess.
God is EXCEPTIONALLY clear about what He would like His children to do. the riddles i will get to with the confusing comment. if you deny Him, He denies YOU because you're not His child. your heart's not right with HIM. if your heart was right with Him then you'd hear Him. you're already listening to your parent, whoever you follow. if you follow zeus, then your parent is zeus. lastly, if human beings fail, it's because of them. God does not fail. Love never fails.(1 Corinthians 13:8). failure is not a part of Him.
My children are who they are. They can deny that they are mine, but I would know that they were wrong and would not stop loving them. I'd also be taking a long, hard look at myself to figure out what I'd done to make them deny their own mother. That's not natural behavior for children raised by loving parents. Barring mental illness, I assume the fault would lie with me.
God doesn't ask for the impossible. you just misunderstand God and His love. did Jesus ask anyone to beg? no. in fact, He washed sinful men's feet. He lowered HIMSELF. He doesn't ask the IMPOSSIBLE, i don't think loving is the impossible.
Again, could be that we were just taught in different churches. The lesson I got was that we need redemption through Jesus because we are incapable of meeting god's standards on our own.
did Jesus tell people to kill, or He Himself kill ANYONE? NO. He's the prince of peace. maybe you should look into this chaper and verse:
John 8:44
No, Jesus did not kill anyone, or ask anyone to kill, but one thing confuses me ... the constant disavowal of the Old Testament by Christians. Every Christian church I've ever been to still includes an old testament reading every Sunday, but when questioned, everyone tells me that the old testament doesn't count anymore.
God always behaves in love. He has tremendous mercy and grace. God's children hear His voice and follow Him. there is GREAT love. it's NEVER God's fault. how can it be God's fault when God's Word is established, nothing can be added or taken away from it. He doesn't make mistakes.
well, i'm impressed and in wonderment, so it suits me. now to the riddles and confusing speach you don't understand. here is the answer:
Matthew 13:14,15
So essentially, the message is "If you don't get it, too bad, that's your problem ... the well-being of your eternal soul is at stake here, but don't expect any help from me." Very loving indeed.
Look, this is all just academic to me, since obviously I don't believe a word of it, so I don't see any point in continuing the debate, unless you're truly bored and have nothing better to do You said your thing, I said mine, no one is changing minds here. I do respect you for the diligence with which you stand up for your beliefs
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
i should've known the same band of non-believers would say your post was great. yeah, lets get to this list, hippiemom. i was expecting you to show up at some point.
I'm a believer, I just believe differently than you.
Comments
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
So basically what you are saying is that you only belive in god and the bible because your scared of fairy tales.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
answer your OWN question. you're the child of who you follow. i don't know about YOU, but i'm speaking of a positive event, and that event is the resurrection of Jesus Christ. i just celebrated it a week ago.
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
i believe in God because He's MY truth. i'm scared of a fairy tale as much as i'm scared of an ant.
give me a break. there are other things that are forced upon us too. like i care about listening to all of this celebrity gossip. ignore it. why do YOU care so much? are YOU gay?
you're calling the poster an idiot just because he posed the question? you don't know him, and you don't know how he treats people. but i can see you like calling people idiots.
PJammin' He's your truth. And that's great. But please don't tell me He's mine.
Or that I was born a sinner.
I'm finding that a bit disrespectful actually.
You are completely entitled to your beliefs and I admire you the strength of your convictions, but I would prefer you accorded me the same courtesy.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i'm sorry, i'm speaking from myself. your beliefs have no effect on what i say, right? so it shouldn't matter. if ANYONE should feel disrespected it is ME. look back on some of the posts and you'll see what i'm talking about. if you don't want to hear people's thoughts on this matter, put this thread on ignore. worse things happen on this board than in this thread. i apologize if it bothers you.
edit: i edited my former post for you, Jeanie.
it was only a question. i have often wondered why the disparate views on zues and pals and the christian god. i understand your reticence in answering me and i respect you not wanting to share everything with the board. it's not as if i share everything. you see it as a mocking question perhaps. it was not.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
very well said.
I've read through the thread intermittently and will probably keep doing so.
It's an interesting thread, with lots of different views and opinions.
All of them valid to the person posting them.
In order for me to understand, I need to continue reading, however I do not share all of the views of all of the people all of the time on this thread.
I would say this, as my own view, "I may not agree with what you say but I defend to the death your right to say it." (probably didn't quote that correctly but that's the general gist of my view.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Well thats not how what you said came across. You sound very much like you were scared and so by believing you were taking the safest bet.
And as far as i'm concerned that sounded nothing like i believe because want to, only because it's safer to.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
the big one is good people go to hell becos they didn't read the bible and worship jesus, or picked the wrong religion. that's plain fucked up. then there's the whole jesus being god thing.
i've yet to see any that are more compelling than the reasons islam or hindu offer to support their beliefs. you're all equal in terms of reason. i've had plenty of time to get to know jesus dude. it's not a matter of seeking or lack of answers.
sure, if it was god's book. im not convinced though. there are about 15 different versions of the bible now. which one is it? muslims say the koran is god's book. you're willing to push that into the disney pile.
what does that even mean?
that i can accept, having had a pretty powerful spiritual experience myself. i wouldnt share it here either. but that makes more sense in terms of your conviction than anything else you've said thus far. the fact is, no religion is compelling in a logical or factual sense. i think you have to have some sort of connection like the one you're hinting at here to truly get religion. otherwise, it's always going to seem fatally contradictory and mythical.
1. I'm here, physically present every day of their lives. I didn't have someone else hand them a book, written by a third party, filled with things I supposedly said, some of which are confusing, some of which are contradictory, and all of which are unverifiable, and expect my kids to follow that book to the letter on pain of death.
2. There is nothing my children could do which would compel me to send them to an eternity of suffering.
3. When I want my kids to do something, I am very clear about it. I don't give them riddles and stories to decipher, I don't have someone else pass the word along for me. If they fail to do as I asked because I failed to make myself clear, that is MY failing and not theirs.
4. I do not ask them to do things that are impossible for their stage of development and then expect them to beg my forgiveness for not being able to do them.
5. No one has to die, either as payment or punishment for wrongdoings. I don't have to sacrifice myself or my child, I don't threaten my children with death, I don't ask that they kill anyone else ... not even as a test just to see if they'd do it.
6. If my kids did not love and respect me, I would assume that it was my own damn fault for not behaving in a way that is lovable and respectable.
As I said, that's just the short list, off the top of my head. Sorry, but your god does not impress me with his great love.
you're awesome
Excellent post, hippiemom!
naděje umírá poslední
Wow, amazing post! Well said.
must not have been very conclusive findings.
now i really think youre insane.
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
OH! Who wants to talk about abortion!?
why do you pick the teachings of one organized religion and put so much into what they say that you assume they are right about God? what you listed has nothing to do with God. that is not God and i'm offended. i would feel much better if you had stated what teachings you were referring to. it seems you condemn all for the teachings of one.
have you been following the thread? her response is a clear and direct rebuttal to some of the expressed beliefs of unconditional love made by christians about their beliefs in this thread. it was meant to respond to their concept of god and that alone. i dont think she claimed it was any more than that.
It was a reply to PJammin', I believe. This is his god.
naděje umírá poslední
She was replying directly to Pjammin.
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i should've known the same band of non-believers would say your post was great.
first of all, God IS present in His children's lives. hippiemom, your mortal eye wouldn't even be able to handle His physical presense. look into the sun for a period of time and you'll go blind. God's light is far more superior than the sun in which He made. i don't know if i told you, or someone else, but God's physical presense would blow your humanly body away. so, God is present everyday of His childrens lives(Psalm 125:2). notice the words "this time and FOREVER."
the Bible is clearly God's Word. i already posted the answer to that, but i'll do it again(2 Peter 1:20,21). it CERTAINLY wasn't of a third party. you're mistaken. i'll address the confusing comment later, but God's Word is PERFECT. He doesn't contradict His own Word. once again, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. also, you don't have to expect your kids to follow God's Word. He has a way of putting His Word into the hearts of children in His own way, and even if they don't believe now, it doesn't mean that they never will.
it's simple, really. if you're not of God, you're of something else. so therefore, you're NOT God's child. how hard is that to understand????? i already explained that once.
God is EXCEPTIONALLY clear about what He would like His children to do. the riddles i will get to with the confusing comment. if you deny Him, He denies YOU because you're not His child. your heart's not right with HIM. if your heart was right with Him then you'd hear Him. you're already listening to your parent, whoever you follow. if you follow zeus, then your parent is zeus. lastly, if human beings fail, it's because of them. God does not fail. Love never fails.(1 Corinthians 13:8). failure is not a part of Him.
God doesn't ask for the impossible. you just misunderstand God and His love. did Jesus ask anyone to beg? no. in fact, He washed sinful men's feet. He lowered HIMSELF. He doesn't ask the IMPOSSIBLE, i don't think loving is the impossible.
did Jesus tell people to kill, or He Himself kill ANYONE? NO. He's the prince of peace. maybe you should look into this chaper and verse:
John 8:44
God always behaves in love. He has tremendous mercy and grace. God's children hear His voice and follow Him. there is GREAT love. it's NEVER God's fault. how can it be God's fault when God's Word is established, nothing can be added or taken away from it. He doesn't make mistakes.
well, i'm impressed and in wonderment, so it suits me.
Matthew 13:14,15
I was taught that we are all god's children, believers and non-believers alike. Different churches, I guess.
My children are who they are. They can deny that they are mine, but I would know that they were wrong and would not stop loving them. I'd also be taking a long, hard look at myself to figure out what I'd done to make them deny their own mother. That's not natural behavior for children raised by loving parents. Barring mental illness, I assume the fault would lie with me.
Again, could be that we were just taught in different churches. The lesson I got was that we need redemption through Jesus because we are incapable of meeting god's standards on our own.
No, Jesus did not kill anyone, or ask anyone to kill, but one thing confuses me ... the constant disavowal of the Old Testament by Christians. Every Christian church I've ever been to still includes an old testament reading every Sunday, but when questioned, everyone tells me that the old testament doesn't count anymore.
Says you.
So essentially, the message is "If you don't get it, too bad, that's your problem ... the well-being of your eternal soul is at stake here, but don't expect any help from me." Very loving indeed.
Look, this is all just academic to me, since obviously I don't believe a word of it, so I don't see any point in continuing the debate, unless you're truly bored and have nothing better to do
I'm a believer, I just believe differently than you.
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