Interesting thought I had.

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  • PJammin'
    PJammin' Posts: 1,913
    soulsinging wrote:
    i didnt see the answer anywhere, but thanks for repeating yourself for my sake ;) anyway, dyou go to services? church groups? anything of the sort? if so, what does the name on the church say?

    no problem. i have been to services, the last one was with someone dear to me and it was in late december. i can't speak for the name on the church because i don't remember. i don't know the denomination. it wasn't catholic, which a lot of people in my mom's side of the family is. i'm open to checking out a church if i feel good about it. i have been to church groups and Bible studies too. when my mom comes to visit me i'll attend catholic mass with her, but like i said, i don't agree with all of their customs. but going to church for me is a personal thing. i'm there for God.
    and i do hope you feel like. im truly curious to hear. cos i find that 99.9% of the people like you or the godhatesfags group or anyone who says being gay is a choice, do not know any gay people (or lie about their one good friend who is gay or their one coworker they "know" but have never said anything to beyond business talk). so im truly curious to see if you consider him a liar, or a faker, or what... i mean, from his mouth, he tried to fight it. so there's a contradiction here and id like to see your take on that.

    i have known and currently know gays. i attended school in new york city and i live in a city now which has a higher population of gays. not knowing any hasn't been an issue with me. as far as deadmosquito, it would be wrong of me to call him a liar or a faker. it really isn't my place to do so.

    i take every qui im offered out of idle curiosity. the answer came back some religion i'd never heard of. i dont truck with religion. i believe in spirituality, but not the hocus pocus magic that goes with religion. so it was just to see who my beliefs actually lined up with the best.

    i understand. cool. curiousity killed the cat. :D j/k

    i don't explain it per se. like i said, i call it god but think of it as simply a creative entity. it's not like a giant man standing in space building a universe, like the genesis account. the concept of god to me defies explanation. which is why i don't see how anyone can say "god clearly says being gay is wrong." god doesn't deign to explain herself to humans. there was creation, and i believe it continues today. but at no point did god take a special interest in humans, nor did the creation stop once we arrived.

    i understand what you're saying. as far as the God i'm talking about, no one has seen His form, except for Jesus Christ. i can't comment on God the Father as a giant man. i believe as human beings we want and need love, and God fills that void, because God IS love.
    that's sort of what i'm saying. humans have significance becos we value ourselves and want to live. our lives are not meaningless or anything. but on the whole, yes, everything is on the same level. humans do not have a right to live at the expense of the rest of creation, and all life is created equal, just different. we strive amongst each other for survival and the upper hand, but in the whole picture, balance is struck and the whole life thing keeps moving forward.

    i agree with you. we definitely WANT to live. if we already feel like our lives are meaningless, then we might as well just not be born at all. i personally don't feel we're on the same level, because i have the belief Christ died for the human being, and we're made in God's image. thanks for your thoughts and feelings on your beliefs.


    i didn't say christ taught that, i'm well aware of what christ's teachings were. but all of those are in the old testament, dude.

    yes, they are in the old testament, but Christ brought human beings back to God. Christ brought grace. no need for the people to sacrifice animals for God when Christ was the ultimate one.
    anyway, that is what religion is about. hokey and archaic ceremonies of celebration (like my AA meetings ;)). the catholics are particularly bad about the hokiness, but they all do it to an extent. it's just a social function that brings like people together. race, religion, ethnicity, country, they're all just social tools to both celebrate shared values and to enforce them. i prefer to choose my social groups on different grounds. my spiritual beliefs are personal. my communal belonging is defined on other grounds.

    i'm not for hokiness so i have to agree with you. whatever people feel comfortable with. but there are really good people out there in many religions. i prefer it if we all got along, but that's not the case in this imperfect world.



    no problem. up above he said he basically agreed with what i said, so i think that's a rough answer to the question you posed him. but he'll answer at greater length in his own time im sure.[/quote]
    I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
  • PJammin'
    PJammin' Posts: 1,913
    Ahnimus wrote:

    Bush Quotes

    "Bring them on."

    "Every nation in every region now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

    Seems old Georgy boy isn't a real Christian, but who is. If you hate homosexuals and do not treat them as you would treat yourself than you are going against the word of God, right here in Luke6:35.

    this might be the first time, but mr. ahnimus i have to agree with you on this.
    I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
  • PJammin'
    PJammin' Posts: 1,913
    Ahnimus wrote:
    The sun or other stars aren't made from wood they are mostly hydrogen. Umm, shit I can't quite remember the scientists name, but he does actually grow brains. If I think of it I'll let you know.

    i only used wood as an example. i wasn't saying the sun and stars were made out of wood. besides, God made a bush burn without consuming it so He can do that too. also, no scientist can actually create a brain like the human brain. God created man out of the dust. lets see a scientist do that.

    Romans 11:33-36

    another part of the Bible to get familiar with, mr. ahnimus. ;)
    I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    PJammin' wrote:
    i only used wood as an example. i wasn't saying the sun and stars were made out of wood. besides, God made a bush burn without consuming it so He can do that too. also, no scientist can actually create a brain like the human brain. God created man out of the dust. lets see a scientist do that.

    Romans 11:33-36

    another part of the Bible to get familiar with, mr. ahnimus. ;)

    Did God make a bush burn? There is no proof of this.

    Did God creat man from dust? There is no evidence of this.

    Scientists will make brains superior to human's. Give it time.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Scientists will make brains superior to human's. Give it time.

    You should know. Aren't they using yours as a model? :rolleyes:
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • PJammin'
    PJammin' Posts: 1,913
    Ahnimus wrote:
    What is the point in trying to explain it? You can't with absolute certainty, there is absolutely no way of knowing what "Got the ball rolling" all we know is that energy doesn't die it just changes form. This implies to me that the ball always has been rolling.

    what's the point in trying to explain it? i don't know, mr. ahnimus, you seem to explain everything else. you SHOULD know. :) but i'll tell you with confidence what got the ball rolling:


    Large fingers pushing paint
    You're GOD and you've got big hands
    The colors blend... the challenges you give man

    Seek my part... devote myself
    My small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
    Sometimes I know, sometimes I rise
    Sometimes I fall, sometimes I don't
    Sometimes I cringe, sometimes I live
    Sometimes I walk, sometimes I kneel
    Sometimes I speak of nothing at all
    Sometimes I reach to myself, dear GOD
    I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    cornnifer wrote:
    You should know. Aren't they using yours as a model? :rolleyes:

    what is your take on deadmosquito's post? so far, there hasn't been a single one of the "being gay is a choice" christians willing to confront his testimony.
  • PJammin'
    PJammin' Posts: 1,913
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Did God make a bush burn? There is no proof of this.

    proof is in the historical document.

    Exodus 3:1-6
    Did God creat man from dust? There is no evidence of this.

    Genesis 2:7
    Scientists will make brains superior to human's. Give it time.

    not in your lifetime.
    I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    PJammin' wrote:
    i agree with you. we definitely WANT to live. if we already feel like our lives are meaningless, then we might as well just not be born at all. i personally don't feel we're on the same level, because i have the belief Christ died for the human being, and we're made in God's image. thanks for your thoughts and feelings on your beliefs.

    that's pretty much where i part ways with judeo-christian/islamic religion. i have a hard time believing there is anything truly unique about humans aside from the fact that we developed survival techniques so effective we now have time to sit around and talk shop about our place in the universe ;) anytime i hear someone say we are created in god's image, i cannot help but think what is really happening is they are creating a god in their image. and im VERY uncomfortable with that. it ends up infecting the doctrine, so you end up with a god who's really kinda petty and jealous and insecure.
    PJammin' wrote:
    yes, they are in the old testament, but Christ brought human beings back to God. Christ brought grace. no need for the people to sacrifice animals for God when Christ was the ultimate one.

    this is another issue i have with christianity. you admit they are in the old testament but say christ renders them inapplicable. why only those particular provisions but not homosexuality? i dont recall any passages where jesus said the old rules about proper slavery techniques, or raping virgins to make them your wife were out, but homos are still wrong. who gets to pick and choose which parts of the OT are no longer relevant and which are?
  • PJammin'
    PJammin' Posts: 1,913
    soulsinging wrote:
    what is your take on deadmosquito's post? so far, there hasn't been a single one of the "being gay is a choice" christians willing to confront his testimony.

    i'll simplify the answer for you without getting into details. at this point, i'm the only Christian willing to put up or shut up.

    you have a choice to serve God or something that is not God. the people who are living a gay lifestyle choose not to serve God. so, it's a choice. i'm done for now. i've answered more questions than any other Christian in this thread so the others can pick up the slack. i have other things i need to be doing. peace.
    I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
  • ForestBrain
    ForestBrain Posts: 460
    soulsinging wrote:
    from deadmosquito:

    "who gives a shit if YOU believe being gay isn't something you're born with. as a gay guy, i KNOW it was. i fought against it as much as i possibly could and guess what, all it did was make me suicidal and a crappy person in basically every way. after i realized that i couldn't change somethign that i was born with, i became a much better person. it's ridiculous for you, someone who is not gay, to say "people aren't born gay." how the fuck would you know?"

    im curious what your answer to this is? is he lying? did he not try to choose hard enough?
    Do you really want to know? I'll tell you. I think people can try to get rid of certain things, such as alcoholism, and it still defeats them because they didn't do what they should have done. I've known some gay people that turned to God , truly, and yeah, they struggled and went through hell, but they kept to it and prayed and fasted and sought God and overcame their problem. I'm certainly not perfect, but I struggle every day to do what I know is right. Don't get ticked off at me, I'm not the one who said homosexuality is an abomination. I cannot deny what I know and what I've been through. I don't hate homosexuals, but I hate what they do.
    I don't picket, I don't protest. I just live my life and mind my own business. You people sound like you have so little to do, that you go around looking for arguments. If God says doing something is going to send my soul to hell, then I'm going to do my best not to do it. Maybe you should stop and think about that. Do you actually want to go to hell? Am I wrong for not wanting people to go to hell? I don't go to church, I don't go door-to-door. I don't even mention my beliefs unless somebody directly asks me, or I need to explain myself on something.
    This isn't about me hating, it's the opposite. I don't want to see people go to hell. I know without a doubt it exists, I know without a doubt Satan's greatest achievement is making people believe he doesn't exist.
    A HUGE problem I see all of these so-called Christians. They've made people bitter against Christians, which stinks for people who actually are real Christians, because they get thrown into the same lump. My guide for life is what the Bible says, and if some of you believe it's an outdated story book written my man, then fine. But I warn you, do NOT speak against it. It's not me you're going to have to answer to, it's God.
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    ForestBrain wrote:
    Do you actually want to go to hell?


    If it came down to heaven or hell, I'd pick hell.

    Know why? Because hell doesn't discriminate, hell does not require worship, thanks or praise. Hell requires nothing of me.

    If I think of this God figure and all it's demands and rules and that if I do not follow them I will spend eternity burning in hell, that sounds like Satan to me.

    The description of Satan is barely different than the description of God. The Bible says that Satan is the master of deception, perhaps it's referring to it's self. "Obey me or serve in hell for eternity" deception? Could the Biblical God be Satan?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • ForestBrain
    ForestBrain Posts: 460
    soulsinging wrote:
    that's pretty much where i part ways with judeo-christian/islamic religion. i have a hard time believing there is anything truly unique about humans aside from the fact that we developed survival techniques so effective we now have time to sit around and talk shop about our place in the universe ;) anytime i hear someone say we are created in god's image, i cannot help but think what is really happening is they are creating a god in their image. and im VERY uncomfortable with that. it ends up infecting the doctrine, so you end up with a god who's really kinda petty and jealous and insecure.



    this is another issue i have with christianity. you admit they are in the old testament but say christ renders them inapplicable. why only those particular provisions but not homosexuality? i dont recall any passages where jesus said the old rules about proper slavery techniques, or raping virgins to make them your wife were out, but homos are still wrong. who gets to pick and choose which parts of the OT are no longer relevant and which are?
    Here's a verse in the NT.
    1 Corinth 6:9-10
    "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, no effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind......shall inherit the kingdom of God."
    Another:
    Romans 1:27-
    "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • ForestBrain
    ForestBrain Posts: 460
    Ahnimus wrote:
    If it came down to heaven or hell, I'd pick hell.

    Know why? Because hell doesn't discriminate, hell does not require worship, thanks or praise. Hell requires nothing of me.

    If I think of this God figure and all it's demands and rules and that if I do not follow them I will spend eternity burning in hell, that sounds like Satan to me.

    The description of Satan is barely different than the description of God. The Bible says that Satan is the master of deception, perhaps it's referring to it's self. "Obey me or serve in hell for eternity" deception? Could the Biblical God be Satan?
    You're worshiping satan by doing what he wants you to do. You just don't realize it. Not only that, God has a right, seeing at he is your creator, to tell you what he requires. Not only THAT, but all of the things God requires are good. Not one of them is bad. The thing that makes it bad is people just love to sin so much. They don't want to give it up.
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    PJammin' wrote:
    i'll simplify the answer for you without getting into details. at this point, i'm the only Christian willing to put up or shut up.

    you have a choice to serve God or something that is not God. the people who are living a gay lifestyle choose not to serve God. so, it's a choice. i'm done for now. i've answered more questions than any other Christian in this thread so the others can pick up the slack. i have other things i need to be doing. peace.

    that's a bit of a different question though. re you a lawyer? ;) cos while i can see your point, i was asking about the choice to be gay. you're saying it's a choice to act on gay thoughts and feelings. im asking are those feelings a choice or born? cos a lot of the christians say it's bogus that people are born gay and think they ought to be able to switch it off and go straight any time they want, which seems ridiculous to me. you're not answering one way or the other on that one though i think your answer is legit. anyway, you ahve been on the hotseat a lot and i've finally got some takers on this one so i'll let you be in peace :)
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    ForestBrain wrote:
    Here's a verse in the NT.
    1 Corinth 6:9-10
    "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, no effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind......shall inherit the kingdom of God."
    Another:
    Romans 1:27-
    "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

    those were both letters of apostles, not the word of jesus. again, men deciding what stays and what goes based on their agenda.
  • ForestBrain
    ForestBrain Posts: 460
    ^ They were moved by God to write those things. I can't get over how disillusioned the world is.
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    ForestBrain wrote:
    You're worshiping satan by doing what he wants you to do. You just don't realize it. Not only that, God has a right, seeing at he is your creator, to tell you what he requires. Not only THAT, but all of the things God requires are good. Not one of them is bad. The thing that makes it bad is people just love to sin so much. They don't want to give it up.

    No. I'm questioning the goodness of God and it would seem that God is not forgiving.

    Luke 6:36

    Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful

    Merciful unless you don't do what he says, then he forces the worst possible punishment on you, eternity in agonizing pain. That doesn't make any sense. Why? Just to feel special that people worship him.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • ForestBrain
    ForestBrain Posts: 460
    When Jesus was crucified, it didn't take away the old commandments....Jesus himself said that keeping the commandments is the love of God. What it took away was the sacrificing of animals for sin. That's the only thing that changed...that and now anybody could get saved, whether or not they were physical Jews.
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    ForestBrain wrote:
    ^ They were moved by God to write those things. I can't get over how disillusioned the world is.

    Disillusioned is good.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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