Look, this is all just academic to me, since obviously I don't believe a word of it, so I don't see any point in continuing the debate, unless you're truly bored and have nothing better to do You said your thing, I said mine, no one is changing minds here. I do respect you for the diligence with which you stand up for your beliefs
honestly, right now i don't have time to come back with a reply. if i have time later i'll be happy to do so. i don't know all of the ways your own church taught, but they are clearly misleading people. i don't know how much longer i will stay in this thread, but i hope some people got something out of what i said, even if they are just lurking. you'll be hardpressed to get the answers to questions in which i just laid out here in this thread. i'm not teaching my own personal agenda, i'm teaching GOD'S AGENDA: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. all the credit goes to God. anyway, you have your beliefs, i hope they are 100% solid. i have no doubt in mine. peace.
I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
I've already put in my 2 cents back in the beginning of this thread, but I've been reading what's been going on in here and I must applaud Mr. PJammin'. From a biblical standpoint, I agree with him 100%. I keep my beliefs to myself as I find no reason to explain what I feel is right to anyone, but he nailed the truth according to God in every single post he made. I certainly admire and respect his conviction and passion. He didn't falter once.
Keep in mind, what he's been explaining is the word of God per the bible. If a person reads the bible and believes in God, this is what they deem to be the truth. I completely understand because I believe just as he does, with the exception of our views regarding homosexuality. Lots of strong views in here. It's been fun reading along.
Fuck, this is infuriating, not you disagreeing with me but failing to understand: ITS NOT LOVE BECAUDE GOD THREATHENS TO CUT YOU OFF FOR ETERNITY IF YOU SIN, BECAUSE THE RPENTENCE OPITION HAS A TIME FRAME
ease up on the testosterone's dude. it's not healthy. just relax and know that life is much more beautiful than a silly little discussion on the pearl jam forum.... besides we're all a bunch of little geeky nerds here not having any better to do than get on the pearljam forums and discuss silly topics. instaed of going out with your girlfriends and such or getting laid.
but on the other hand. would you get mad at the dalai lama for being much more understanding of his buddhist faith? or a guru for being much more informed of his hinduism? or what of a rabbi and his priesthood? and jewish traditions that date back thousands of years? would you feel condescended if they were more informed than you on those topics? or a muslim? get the picture? if you read the bible as much as i do and follow it's teachings than your level of understanding would be as much as mine which is really very little. but if you're getting upset of my comments that regard to you not understanding what i am saying well then let me try and tell you once again.
your of idea of "it's not love because God threatens to cut you off for eternity if you sin" is what i have explained away already. you are cut off cause of sin and by sin. not by God. God has opened the doors for everyone to enjoy freely of his promises. our problem is our unbelief... our unbelief to follow the teachings of christ. true. repentance option has a time frame but no one knows how that time frame is. it could be a million more years... i don't knwo. that's really not important. what is important is to understand that God never intended for us to go to hell. hell was not even meant for us. it was prepared for the devil and deaht and sin and all those things that cause bad things to us. unfortunately because sin is like a decaying bacteria that has entered our bodies it is killing us and taking us to etnrnal deaht with us. that is why our bodies die. that is why there are devastations. wars. hunger. sickness. depression. anger. things of that sort are symptoms of sin. now if you are like soulsinging taht would say, "oh but God is so powerful he should be able to do away with it himself." yes absolutely he can. but see our minds are completely hostile to the idea of this God... the one the Bible mentions. it's impossible for God to reveal himself to someone who doesn't believe. so that is why Christ is there to bring us an understanding that we are inherited with the nature of sin. there had to be a perfect man that would accomplish a perfect life for us since we were completely hopeless on that part. i could pull out so many scriptures to show this to you. however, something tells me that you will stick to the concept of "God does not love us because he threatens to destroy us if we sin." which i've already plainly shown to you how that concept is wrong.
but in the end, really, i'm not saying this to convice you that the bible is the truth. true. i believe it... i believe that our lives are in a state of corruption and anyone is prone to abandon you, leave you and whatnot. but since you are telling me that my God doesn't make sense and try to point out why my God doesn't make sense sounds as ridiculous as you telling a Rabbi why there shouldn't be rest on sabbath day or why it's ok to eat pork. my faith is my faith because it makes sense to me in certain particular ways and if it doesn't make sense to you i want you and soulsinging and everyone else to know that I respect that completely. i am a normal person. i like to hang out, talk about music, watch games and things of that sort. i am not a dogmatic person. i don't shun homosexuals away. but i have my beliefs. if anyone asks me about my beliefs i'll be glad to answer. but don't try to argue with me about how my faith doesn't make sense. cause you will lose that argument.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
no one has answered a burning question for many people in this thread.
PJammin' says the Bible is God's literal, perfect word... verbatim... that he entrusted Luke, Mark, etc. to write it. I can buy that if I have to.
BUT they wrote it in Hebrew (thats what they spoke) and I assume PJammin' and the other people here use the King James version (if anyone can read Hebrew and reads the original Hebrew, my apologies).. well, there is proof that the King James version and the Hebrew are different, words are translated differently, etc. SO, either the King James version isn't the "perfect" word (cuz of the translation errors) OR if PJammin' wants to claim his English version is TRUTH then the Hebrew is wrong. Like I had stated like 8 times in this thread.. its a dilemma that you cannot deny... I'd like someones view on it to try to explain it.
PJammin' has just ignored it for the past 40 pages however.
Unfortunately, I can't hang around here. I have no power at my house from the storm last night and we aren't supposed to get electricity back until Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. Luckily there is a college computer lab kinda near my house. So I'll be back rarely to check for the answer!
Let there be light!
The Sentence Below Is True
The Sentence Above Is False
As so few can read the original languages, God's promise to preserve His Word has no practical relevance if it does not extend to translations. The Scripture frequently affirms"...that we are born again by the Word of God" James 1:18; 1 Corinthians 4:15; 1 Peter 1:23. If a translation cannot be equated with the actual Word of God, then ultimately this leads to the situation that one must know Hebrew and Greek before they can be saved, or built up in the faith. Romans 10:17; Matthew 4:4. Further, the Bible's use of the term "preserved" demonstrates that it is an absolute and not a relative term. To speak of the Bible, a translation as being "almost preserved" is a misnomer. Either it is preserved or it isn't, either it has errors or it doesn't. Either the flower fades and the grass withers or it does not.
One hundred years ago John Burgon wrote: "If you and I believe that the original writings of the Scriptures were verbally inspired by God, then of necessity they must have been providentially preserved through the ages."
The answer is simple and comes down to only one word. Faith. You either believe in it or you spend your time challenging it. If we all were wiped out today and the bible and God turned out to be a complete myth, the believers as well as non-believers have lost nothing, HOWEVER, if it's true, believers gain everything.
ease up on the testosterone's dude. it's not healthy. just relax and know that life is much more beautiful than a silly little discussion on the pearl jam forum.... besides we're all a bunch of little geeky nerds here not having any better to do than get on the pearljam forums and discuss silly topics. instaed of going out with your girlfriends and such or getting laid.
but on the other hand. would you get mad at the dalai lama for being much more understanding of his buddhist faith? or a guru for being much more informed of his hinduism? or what of a rabbi and his priesthood? and jewish traditions that date back thousands of years? would you feel condescended if they were more informed than you on those topics? or a muslim? get the picture? if you read the bible as much as i do and follow it's teachings than your level of understanding would be as much as mine which is really very little. but if you're getting upset of my comments that regard to you not understanding what i am saying well then let me try and tell you once again.
your of idea of "it's not love because God threatens to cut you off for eternity if you sin" is what i have explained away already. you are cut off cause of sin and by sin. not by God. God has opened the doors for everyone to enjoy freely of his promises. our problem is our unbelief... our unbelief to follow the teachings of christ. true. repentance option has a time frame but no one knows how that time frame is. it could be a million more years... i don't knwo. that's really not important. what is important is to understand that God never intended for us to go to hell. hell was not even meant for us. it was prepared for the devil and deaht and sin and all those things that cause bad things to us. unfortunately because sin is like a decaying bacteria that has entered our bodies it is killing us and taking us to etnrnal deaht with us. that is why our bodies die. that is why there are devastations. wars. hunger. sickness. depression. anger. things of that sort are symptoms of sin. now if you are like soulsinging taht would say, "oh but God is so powerful he should be able to do away with it himself." yes absolutely he can. but see our minds are completely hostile to the idea of this God... the one the Bible mentions. it's impossible for God to reveal himself to someone who doesn't believe. so that is why Christ is there to bring us an understanding that we are inherited with the nature of sin. there had to be a perfect man that would accomplish a perfect life for us since we were completely hopeless on that part. i could pull out so many scriptures to show this to you. however, something tells me that you will stick to the concept of "God does not love us because he threatens to destroy us if we sin." which i've already plainly shown to you how that concept is wrong.
but in the end, really, i'm not saying this to convice you that the bible is the truth. true. i believe it... i believe that our lives are in a state of corruption and anyone is prone to abandon you, leave you and whatnot. but since you are telling me that my God doesn't make sense and try to point out why my God doesn't make sense sounds as ridiculous as you telling a Rabbi why there shouldn't be rest on sabbath day or why it's ok to eat pork. my faith is my faith because it makes sense to me in certain particular ways and if it doesn't make sense to you i want you and soulsinging and everyone else to know that I respect that completely. i am a normal person. i like to hang out, talk about music, watch games and things of that sort. i am not a dogmatic person. i don't shun homosexuals away. but i have my beliefs. if anyone asks me about my beliefs i'll be glad to answer. but don't try to argue with me about how my faith doesn't make sense. cause you will lose that argument.
I got pissed off becaused you used circular logic, which is infuriatingly nonsensical. Also you realise it takes a matter of seconds to post something and that I haven't been on 24hrs a day? So yes I know there's more imortant things than being on this forum however that doesn't mean I can't be passionate in what I type.
Would I get pissed at them? Yeah I would, the Dali Lama who granted several audiences to, and received a donation of more than $1 million from Shoko Asahara, leader of the Supreme Truth cult of Japan, and spreader of sarin gas in the Tokyo subway. Religion is a an opressive cancer that has blighted human kind for thousands of years and why? Because we're all afraid that if we make a big mistake on this planet that there's noone to clean it up. I mean think about it, why are so many religions carbon copies of each other? All of them promise paridise, eternal opulence because we're all so fucking greedy and materialistic, that no matter how charitable we are in life there's the big pay off when we die, a way of getting our 'reward'. I make no apologies for the strength of my oposition towards religion, it is forced on people every day and they become enslaved to it, I was brought up in a catholic school with absolultely no word of other religions and if I disagreed with something well lets say they weren't pleased. Religion is wrong and no amount of car boot sales for starving children will make up for that.
~*~*~*~*PROUD EVENFLOW PSYCHO #0026~*~*~*~*
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
no one has answered a burning question for many people in this thread.
PJammin' says the Bible is God's literal, perfect word... verbatim... that he entrusted Luke, Mark, etc. to write it. I can buy that if I have to.
BUT they wrote it in Hebrew (thats what they spoke) and I assume PJammin' and the other people here use the King James version (if anyone can read Hebrew and reads the original Hebrew, my apologies).. well, there is proof that the King James version and the Hebrew are different, words are translated differently, etc. SO, either the King James version isn't the "perfect" word (cuz of the translation errors) OR if PJammin' wants to claim his English version is TRUTH then the Hebrew is wrong. Like I had stated like 8 times in this thread.. its a dilemma that you cannot deny... I'd like someones view on it to try to explain it.
Of course the King James Bible isn't perfect in some regards. There are multiple translations of the bible out there (NIV, NAS, KJV, newKJV etc...). Ideally when you study the Bible you should also have greek and hebrew concordances to help you figure out which meanings of words to use. There is a concept called semantic range that means words can have multiple meanings. In greek and hebrew there are some phrases that don't really have an easy english translation / concept. You also have to put the bible into historical context...how would the words have been understood AT THAT TIME. That is why reading / studying the Bible can be a very difficult task
no one has answered a burning question for many people in this thread.
mr. scw156, i've given appropriate answers to all of your replys, you just fail to find them. by calling me out, i have a feeling you enjoy talking to me, but it's just a guess.
PJammin' says the Bible is God's literal, perfect word... verbatim... that he entrusted Luke, Mark, etc. to write it. I can buy that if I have to.
God entrusted not only Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, but also the other men of the Old Testament who He came to. i've already posted 2 Peter 1:20,21 which CLEARLY STATES that God's Word is not of ANY private interpretation. Proverbs 30:5,6 says:
EVERY word of God is PURE:
He is a shield to those who put
their trust in Him.
Do NOT add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be
FOUND a liar.
BUT they wrote it in Hebrew (thats what they spoke) and I assume PJammin' and the other people here use the King James version (if anyone can read Hebrew and reads the original Hebrew, my apologies).. well, there is proof that the King James version and the Hebrew are different, words are translated differently...
you are correct, i use a King James version, but i've studied under a Hebrew and Greek authority. other Christians have also put their thoughts behind your question. take out of it what you want. in closing i'll add:
For the word of God is LIVING and POWERFUL, and SHARPER than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.(Hebrews 4:12)
I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
I've already put in my 2 cents back in the beginning of this thread, but I've been reading what's been going on in here and I must applaud Mr. PJammin'. From a biblical standpoint, I agree with him 100%. I keep my beliefs to myself as I find no reason to explain what I feel is right to anyone, but he nailed the truth according to God in every single post he made. I certainly admire and respect his conviction and passion. He didn't falter once.
i didn't expect that, but THANK YOU! i appreciate it.
Keep in mind, what he's been explaining is the word of God per the bible. If a person reads the bible and believes in God, this is what they deem to be the truth. I completely understand because I believe just as he does, with the exception of our views regarding homosexuality. Lots of strong views in here. It's been fun reading along.
i stick to my beliefs on this issue of homosexuality. each person, no matter what their sexual preference may be, deserves to be treated in love, but God clearly states it is a sin. if a person lives a gay lifestyle, they will not enter the Kingdom of God. no matter God's Word, they should NOT be mocked.
I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
Again with the circular logic. The bible is the word of god. How do we know that? Because god said so. Where did he say it? In the bible. For some reason I find this unconvincing.
Jesus said it, and Jesus was a real person who walked the earth. it's been determined that Jesus existed, but you don't believe that The Father was in Jesus, so therefore it is unconvincing to you(Luke20:17,18). i don't know what else to tell you. if Jesus came to you in the flesh, my guess is you'd still doubt. what can i say, your beliefs are yours and i accept it.
Matthew 13:19
I was taught that we are all god's children, believers and non-believers alike. Different churches, I guess.
no, that is not the truth. only believers of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are the children. this addressed the issue of non-believers by Jesus:
"He who hears you(who Jesus personally appointed)hears Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him(God)who sent Me."(Luke 10:16)
My children are who they are. They can deny that they are mine, but I would know that they were wrong and would not stop loving them. I'd also be taking a long, hard look at myself to figure out what I'd done to make them deny their own mother. That's not natural behavior for children raised by loving parents. Barring mental illness, I assume the fault would lie with me.
God can't stop His love because He IS love. i can't express that enough. the ones denying God aren't His children. God looks at the heart.
Luke 18:17
Again, could be that we were just taught in different churches. The lesson I got was that we need redemption through Jesus because we are incapable of meeting god's standards on our own.
that lesson was true(John 14:6).
No, Jesus did not kill anyone, or ask anyone to kill, but one thing confuses me ... the constant disavowal of the Old Testament by Christians. Every Christian church I've ever been to still includes an old testament reading every Sunday, but when questioned, everyone tells me that the old testament doesn't count anymore.
the Old Testament is JUST as important as the New Testament. God is throughout the whole Bible. Jesus came to establish it all(Matthew 5:17).
So essentially, the message is "If you don't get it, too bad, that's your problem ... the well-being of your eternal soul is at stake here, but don't expect any help from me." Very loving indeed.
no, you're missing the message. the message is turn your heart to God and then He'll teach you to understand.
Look, this is all just academic to me, since obviously I don't believe a word of it, so I don't see any point in continuing the debate, unless you're truly bored and have nothing better to do You said your thing, I said mine, no one is changing minds here. I do respect you for the diligence with which you stand up for your beliefs
i had some time so i figured i'd get back to some of the points you made in your post.
I died. I died and you just stood there. I died and you watched. I died and you walked by and said no. I'm dead.
I got pissed off becaused you used circular logic, which is infuriatingly nonsensical. Also you realise it takes a matter of seconds to post something and that I haven't been on 24hrs a day? So yes I know there's more imortant things than being on this forum however that doesn't mean I can't be passionate in what I type.
Would I get pissed at them? Yeah I would, the Dali Lama who granted several audiences to, and received a donation of more than $1 million from Shoko Asahara, leader of the Supreme Truth cult of Japan, and spreader of sarin gas in the Tokyo subway. Religion is a an opressive cancer that has blighted human kind for thousands of years and why? Because we're all afraid that if we make a big mistake on this planet that there's noone to clean it up. I mean think about it, why are so many religions carbon copies of each other? All of them promise paridise, eternal opulence because we're all so fucking greedy and materialistic, that no matter how charitable we are in life there's the big pay off when we die, a way of getting our 'reward'. I make no apologies for the strength of my oposition towards religion, it is forced on people every day and they become enslaved to it, I was brought up in a catholic school with absolultely no word of other religions and if I disagreed with something well lets say they weren't pleased. Religion is wrong and no amount of car boot sales for starving children will make up for that.
i was joking about the part of being geeky... it was my way of trying to make you laugh... whatever, anyways.
f you keep asking me questions or trying to pull out ways of "proving" why the Bible doesn't make sense (i.e. God's love isn't unconditional because we go to hell) well it's obvious that my arguments will sound circular because I will base it on the Bible. it's not as if i'm saying, "it's the truth because the Bible says it." although it's true to me, I am completely aware that it's not true to many. but in the event that anyone will ask me questions about my faith, i'll be sure to give a response.
in regards to religion, i agree with you. i am sure you have your strong and convincing arguments why you believe the way you do, as well as i have mine. but then again if you're going to get mad at these religious leaders than you are just hurting yourself. tell a guru that reincarnation isn't real because when we die that is it we die. you will just go round and round and round and round and round and round and not getting anywhere near it because you are failing to understand that they are beliefs. when it comes to beliefs there is no need for rationalizing.... it's all a matter of what they feel more than what they know. that's what you are doing with me.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Jesus said it, and Jesus was a real person who walked the earth. it's been determined that Jesus existed, but you don't believe that The Father was in Jesus, so therefore it is unconvincing to you(Luke20:17,18). i don't know what else to tell you. if Jesus came to you in the flesh, my guess is you'd still doubt. what can i say, your beliefs are yours and i accept it.
Matthew 13:19
no, that is not the truth. only believers of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are the children. this addressed the issue of non-believers by Jesus:
"He who hears you(who Jesus personally appointed)hears Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him(God)who sent Me."(Luke 10:16)
God can't stop His love because He IS love. i can't express that enough. the ones denying God aren't His children. God looks at the heart.
Luke 18:17
that lesson was true(John 14:6).
the Old Testament is JUST as important as the New Testament. God is throughout the whole Bible. Jesus came to establish it all(Matthew 5:17).
no, you're missing the message. the message is turn your heart to God and then He'll teach you to understand.
i had some time so i figured i'd get back to some of the points you made in your post.
These cuts are leaving creases. Trace the scars to fit the pieces, to tell the story, you don't need to say a word.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
so i made a response to your "yeah ben Libet ignored his own findings" post. i wasnt being mean though, just goofing around.
i am totally confused though that youre trying to use that as some kind of evidence or premise that prooves your deterministic position,... basically youve destroyed all credibility for yourself in that argument.
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
so i made a response to your "yeah ben Libet ignored his own findings" post. i wasnt being mean though, just goofing around.
i am totally confused though that youre trying to use that as some kind of evidence or premise that prooves your deterministic position,... basically youve destroyed all credibility for yourself in that argument.
Huh? How?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i dunno, i suppose i just dont trust "findings" when the individuals who "found" [founded?] them trust in exactly the opposite.
please dont try to play dumb with me.
I think the fact that darwin was a religious man, is more reason to believe his findings. They are contradictory to his world-view.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yes, it's why he hid his work from the public for 40 years until Wallace came along.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i really don't know who to believe now... honestly, i really don't.
He was Anglican, enrolled by his father as a Clergyman. Wikipedia has info on it, but also the hhmi.org lecture on Evolution mentions Darwin's religiosity. I wouldn't trust anything from a website called evilbible.com
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
honestly, right now i don't have time to come back with a reply. if i have time later i'll be happy to do so. i don't know all of the ways your own church taught, but they are clearly misleading people. i don't know how much longer i will stay in this thread, but i hope some people got something out of what i said, even if they are just lurking. you'll be hardpressed to get the answers to questions in which i just laid out here in this thread. i'm not teaching my own personal agenda, i'm teaching GOD'S AGENDA: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. all the credit goes to God. anyway, you have your beliefs, i hope they are 100% solid. i have no doubt in mine. peace.
Keep in mind, what he's been explaining is the word of God per the bible. If a person reads the bible and believes in God, this is what they deem to be the truth. I completely understand because I believe just as he does, with the exception of our views regarding homosexuality. Lots of strong views in here. It's been fun reading along.
but on the other hand. would you get mad at the dalai lama for being much more understanding of his buddhist faith? or a guru for being much more informed of his hinduism? or what of a rabbi and his priesthood? and jewish traditions that date back thousands of years? would you feel condescended if they were more informed than you on those topics? or a muslim? get the picture? if you read the bible as much as i do and follow it's teachings than your level of understanding would be as much as mine which is really very little. but if you're getting upset of my comments that regard to you not understanding what i am saying well then let me try and tell you once again.
your of idea of "it's not love because God threatens to cut you off for eternity if you sin" is what i have explained away already. you are cut off cause of sin and by sin. not by God. God has opened the doors for everyone to enjoy freely of his promises. our problem is our unbelief... our unbelief to follow the teachings of christ. true. repentance option has a time frame but no one knows how that time frame is. it could be a million more years... i don't knwo. that's really not important. what is important is to understand that God never intended for us to go to hell. hell was not even meant for us. it was prepared for the devil and deaht and sin and all those things that cause bad things to us. unfortunately because sin is like a decaying bacteria that has entered our bodies it is killing us and taking us to etnrnal deaht with us. that is why our bodies die. that is why there are devastations. wars. hunger. sickness. depression. anger. things of that sort are symptoms of sin. now if you are like soulsinging taht would say, "oh but God is so powerful he should be able to do away with it himself." yes absolutely he can. but see our minds are completely hostile to the idea of this God... the one the Bible mentions. it's impossible for God to reveal himself to someone who doesn't believe. so that is why Christ is there to bring us an understanding that we are inherited with the nature of sin. there had to be a perfect man that would accomplish a perfect life for us since we were completely hopeless on that part. i could pull out so many scriptures to show this to you. however, something tells me that you will stick to the concept of "God does not love us because he threatens to destroy us if we sin." which i've already plainly shown to you how that concept is wrong.
but in the end, really, i'm not saying this to convice you that the bible is the truth. true. i believe it... i believe that our lives are in a state of corruption and anyone is prone to abandon you, leave you and whatnot. but since you are telling me that my God doesn't make sense and try to point out why my God doesn't make sense sounds as ridiculous as you telling a Rabbi why there shouldn't be rest on sabbath day or why it's ok to eat pork. my faith is my faith because it makes sense to me in certain particular ways and if it doesn't make sense to you i want you and soulsinging and everyone else to know that I respect that completely. i am a normal person. i like to hang out, talk about music, watch games and things of that sort. i am not a dogmatic person. i don't shun homosexuals away. but i have my beliefs. if anyone asks me about my beliefs i'll be glad to answer. but don't try to argue with me about how my faith doesn't make sense. cause you will lose that argument.
PJammin' says the Bible is God's literal, perfect word... verbatim... that he entrusted Luke, Mark, etc. to write it. I can buy that if I have to.
BUT they wrote it in Hebrew (thats what they spoke) and I assume PJammin' and the other people here use the King James version (if anyone can read Hebrew and reads the original Hebrew, my apologies).. well, there is proof that the King James version and the Hebrew are different, words are translated differently, etc. SO, either the King James version isn't the "perfect" word (cuz of the translation errors) OR if PJammin' wants to claim his English version is TRUTH then the Hebrew is wrong. Like I had stated like 8 times in this thread.. its a dilemma that you cannot deny... I'd like someones view on it to try to explain it.
PJammin' has just ignored it for the past 40 pages however.
Unfortunately, I can't hang around here. I have no power at my house from the storm last night and we aren't supposed to get electricity back until Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. Luckily there is a college computer lab kinda near my house. So I'll be back rarely to check for the answer!
Let there be light!
The Sentence Above Is False
One hundred years ago John Burgon wrote: "If you and I believe that the original writings of the Scriptures were verbally inspired by God, then of necessity they must have been providentially preserved through the ages."
The answer is simple and comes down to only one word. Faith. You either believe in it or you spend your time challenging it. If we all were wiped out today and the bible and God turned out to be a complete myth, the believers as well as non-believers have lost nothing, HOWEVER, if it's true, believers gain everything.
Would I get pissed at them? Yeah I would, the Dali Lama who granted several audiences to, and received a donation of more than $1 million from Shoko Asahara, leader of the Supreme Truth cult of Japan, and spreader of sarin gas in the Tokyo subway. Religion is a an opressive cancer that has blighted human kind for thousands of years and why? Because we're all afraid that if we make a big mistake on this planet that there's noone to clean it up. I mean think about it, why are so many religions carbon copies of each other? All of them promise paridise, eternal opulence because we're all so fucking greedy and materialistic, that no matter how charitable we are in life there's the big pay off when we die, a way of getting our 'reward'. I make no apologies for the strength of my oposition towards religion, it is forced on people every day and they become enslaved to it, I was brought up in a catholic school with absolultely no word of other religions and if I disagreed with something well lets say they weren't pleased. Religion is wrong and no amount of car boot sales for starving children will make up for that.
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
Of course the King James Bible isn't perfect in some regards. There are multiple translations of the bible out there (NIV, NAS, KJV, newKJV etc...). Ideally when you study the Bible you should also have greek and hebrew concordances to help you figure out which meanings of words to use. There is a concept called semantic range that means words can have multiple meanings. In greek and hebrew there are some phrases that don't really have an easy english translation / concept. You also have to put the bible into historical context...how would the words have been understood AT THAT TIME. That is why reading / studying the Bible can be a very difficult task
here's a website that gives resources for Bible translation...the only reason I'm posting it is so you can see how much effort goes into the translations...do with it what you want.
http://www.bible-researcher.com/versbib11.html
http://www.bible-researcher.com/gordon.html - translation theory.
mr. scw156, i've given appropriate answers to all of your replys, you just fail to find them. by calling me out, i have a feeling you enjoy talking to me, but it's just a guess.
God entrusted not only Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, but also the other men of the Old Testament who He came to. i've already posted 2 Peter 1:20,21 which CLEARLY STATES that God's Word is not of ANY private interpretation. Proverbs 30:5,6 says:
EVERY word of God is PURE:
He is a shield to those who put
their trust in Him.
Do NOT add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be
FOUND a liar.
you are correct, i use a King James version, but i've studied under a Hebrew and Greek authority. other Christians have also put their thoughts behind your question. take out of it what you want. in closing i'll add:
For the word of God is LIVING and POWERFUL, and SHARPER than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.(Hebrews 4:12)
i didn't expect that, but THANK YOU! i appreciate it.
i stick to my beliefs on this issue of homosexuality. each person, no matter what their sexual preference may be, deserves to be treated in love, but God clearly states it is a sin. if a person lives a gay lifestyle, they will not enter the Kingdom of God. no matter God's Word, they should NOT be mocked.
Jesus said it, and Jesus was a real person who walked the earth. it's been determined that Jesus existed, but you don't believe that The Father was in Jesus, so therefore it is unconvincing to you(Luke20:17,18). i don't know what else to tell you. if Jesus came to you in the flesh, my guess is you'd still doubt. what can i say, your beliefs are yours and i accept it.
Matthew 13:19
no, that is not the truth. only believers of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are the children. this addressed the issue of non-believers by Jesus:
"He who hears you(who Jesus personally appointed)hears Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him(God)who sent Me."(Luke 10:16)
God can't stop His love because He IS love. i can't express that enough. the ones denying God aren't His children. God looks at the heart.
Luke 18:17
that lesson was true(John 14:6).
the Old Testament is JUST as important as the New Testament. God is throughout the whole Bible. Jesus came to establish it all(Matthew 5:17).
no, you're missing the message. the message is turn your heart to God and then He'll teach you to understand.
i had some time so i figured i'd get back to some of the points you made in your post.
f you keep asking me questions or trying to pull out ways of "proving" why the Bible doesn't make sense (i.e. God's love isn't unconditional because we go to hell) well it's obvious that my arguments will sound circular because I will base it on the Bible. it's not as if i'm saying, "it's the truth because the Bible says it." although it's true to me, I am completely aware that it's not true to many. but in the event that anyone will ask me questions about my faith, i'll be sure to give a response.
in regards to religion, i agree with you. i am sure you have your strong and convincing arguments why you believe the way you do, as well as i have mine. but then again if you're going to get mad at these religious leaders than you are just hurting yourself. tell a guru that reincarnation isn't real because when we die that is it we die. you will just go round and round and round and round and round and round and not getting anywhere near it because you are failing to understand that they are beliefs. when it comes to beliefs there is no need for rationalizing.... it's all a matter of what they feel more than what they know. that's what you are doing with me.
so i made a response to your "yeah ben Libet ignored his own findings" post. i wasnt being mean though, just goofing around.
i am totally confused though that youre trying to use that as some kind of evidence or premise that prooves your deterministic position,... basically youve destroyed all credibility for yourself in that argument.
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
Huh? How?
i dunno, i suppose i just dont trust "findings" when the individuals who "found" [founded?] them trust in exactly the opposite.
please dont try to play dumb with me.
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
I think the fact that darwin was a religious man, is more reason to believe his findings. They are contradictory to his world-view.
Yes, it's why he hid his work from the public for 40 years until Wallace came along.
Christian
http://www.evilbible.com/common_lies.htm
i really don't know who to believe now... honestly, i really don't.
He was Anglican, enrolled by his father as a Clergyman. Wikipedia has info on it, but also the hhmi.org lecture on Evolution mentions Darwin's religiosity. I wouldn't trust anything from a website called evilbible.com