he knows it (me) far better than you
(the vic was the most by far though..and I won't do that much queuing again...especially without being able to drink like Hinn said!! )
there was the same faces GA for sure, but there was new people front row every show too..
difference is with GA, having had to work at it all day, people are more motivated.. you don't see people just standing there not moving (well, ok, I can think of 1 or 2 exceptions..)
despite the numerous times this issue has been discussed...i've forgotten something ...so could someone please refresh my memory?
i only joined 10c in 2002....when i first became a "big fan" at 34! :eek: haha. so, that said....i really don't know firsthand the whole process, but have read/heard/learned much from older fan club memebers. it is my understanding that in the early, early days...there was NO seniority, at all. GA shows, or i guess simply luck of the draw? that really, you simply got access to tickets before the general public, along with the fan club singles, newsletters, etc. i believe? "seniority" didn't take effect until the 2000? tour...and one show for 10c tix, period. i know 2003, my first year in....still did the postcard/moneyorder thing, but seniority DID exist....and you could purchase multiple 10c tix for the first time? also, block seating was in effect.
so.............from the inception of the band until 2000......no seniority, yes? so then, WHY does anyone think it's their *right*.........? it was never offered to first-time joiners, never promised...so why is it viewed as sacrosant? just sayin'. as bazzer mentioned earlier...there have been MANY changes to the *system* over time, quite a LOT really, since 2000 to now.
and taking it further, going back to 'fanclub loyalty' and all that, i totally agree many have supported the band all these years. many with simply buying albums, going to shows, with no 10c membership...some with. i think once, someone broke down the cost of memberships from day one....starting a $5 for X years, to today at $20....and quite honestly, i don't know the full history, but from say the beginning up until say 2003.....how mucvh did all those early memberships cost a member....100 total over those early years? sure, $100 more than others may've spent, not disputing that...but i just think....is THAT really so MUCH that one DESERVES the BEST seats at EVERY single show? merely thinking out loud. it was NOT promised to anyone....ever....so i don't get that. as i've said, overall..i support seniority...but i really DON"T believe it has to be an either/or...all or none scenario. ONE ROW random.....PER SHOW.....seems a sweet deal. and only one idea.
and............one more little thought: i know of quite a few 'long-term' members...who let their memberships lapse a year or more.....and got their #s back. 10cv was a LOT more lax with that back in the day. so, where is the 'fairness' in that? or, it';s been discussed numerous times how '10c' numbersd really got *assigned* by your first 10c purchase, NOT by when you purchased your membership the first time...so again, is it really so accurate and fair?
honestly, i am just playing devil's advocate here. i'm happy going to shows...being where i am...thankful when i get a better shot. yes, sure, it WOULD be nice someday for me AND my husband to see at show in our HOME state...and somehow manage to be together for the show...with my 10c #...and be within say the first 10 rows. absolutely, would be cool. won't be the end of the world if it never happens either. anyhoooooo....the system is what it is and that's a-ok. only point is with the entitlement/elitist tags that sometimes get thrown around, is there ARE many who DO seem to think they ARE 'entitled'...but i honeslt can't see why, really.
so, if you joined back in say 92 b/c you loved the band...no promise of 'seniority' and all, etc.......why do some say they'd leave the club NOW if seniority ceased? you'd STILL get first shot at tix, or could well get close seats....or always close, depending on if and what changes they made. if it's love for the band, the music, the shows....you'd still have all that. just that maybe, others may have some shot of enjoying the perspective you've enjoyed these last couple years. that's all.
Like I said before, there is no totally fair way to distribute tix. Pre 2000, ten club tickets were distributed by the order in which they received your payment through the mail.
So that really wasn't the best system either, because not everyone has funds available at all times.
I think that people wouldn't necessary leave the fan club if seniority was no longer the primary consideration for seat location, but I do think there would be a lot less traveling by long term members to shows around the country.
Like I said before, there is no totally fair way to distribute tix. Pre 2000, ten club tickets were distributed by the order in which they received your payment through the mail.
So that really wasn't the best system either, because not everyone has funds available at all times.
I think that people wouldn't necessary leave the fan club if seniority was no longer the primary consideration for seat location, but I do think there would be a lot less traveling by long term members to shows around the country.
of course not. i think many of us have echoed that same sentiment a few times, but also...there ARE ways to make it more fun/fair for MORE, that's all. spread/share the love.
that said, i was addressing at least one poster here who said he'd not renew...thus why i made the comments i did. and for those long-term members who may not travel as much? i bet there'd be numerous others who would, given the chance at maybe better seats! hell, i have a shite # and i've traveled all over! it's not *just* about where you are in the venue, although even that improves often with travel...or just the fun of being in a new city/new people/different vibe/different show! i know plenty of people with great ahd shite #s, who travel all over...and i know plenty with awesome #s who never leave home for shows, so i don't think it'll matter much there. i think most who travel to shows do so b/c they so love to see pjh live...and not just to get better seats, and/or because they always have great seats.
i think most who travel to shows do so b/c they so love to see pjh live...and not just to get better seats, and/or because they always have great seats.
Travelling is great in itself. A PJ show in these places I'd never been to is just a huge bonus.
i only joined 10c in 2002....when i first became a "big fan" at 34! :eek: haha. so, that said....i really don't know firsthand the whole process, but have read/heard/learned much from older fan club memebers. it is my understanding that in the early, early days...there was NO seniority, at all. GA shows, or i guess simply luck of the draw? that really, you simply got access to tickets before the general public, along with the fan club singles, newsletters, etc. i believe? "seniority" didn't take effect until the 2000? tour...and one show for 10c tix, period. i know 2003, my first year in....still did the postcard/moneyorder thing, but seniority DID exist....and you could purchase multiple 10c tix for the first time? also, block seating was in effect.
from my feeble memory lol i joined back in '95 i think? and you're right, there was no seniority back then. i believe even in 2000 they had the block system going, so even if you had a good number, you still had to get to the venue hella early so you would get the best seat out of your block.
seniority seems to be a relatively new perk in the grand scheme of things. and seeing everything i've been thru just to get to a show over the years, i'm glad it's in place, and it definitely shouldn't be done away with altogether. mixing it up is cool, but it shouldn't be thrown out
from my feeble memory lol i joined back in '95 i think? and you're right, there was no seniority back then. i believe even in 2000 they had the block system going, so even if you had a good number, you still had to get to the venue hella early so you would get the best seat out of your block.
seniority seems to be a relatively new perk in the grand scheme of things. and seeing everything i've been thru just to get to a show over the years, i'm glad it's in place, and it definitely shouldn't be done away with altogether. mixing it up is cool, but it shouldn't be thrown out
i agree, on all counts. and yes, the block system was most definitely in place my first tour, 2003. as i said, bit of playing devil's advocate AND...for those who do seem to have some sense of 'entitlement' to such a perquisite, just a little reminder that NONE were ever promised such, so should never *expect* more than: access to tix before the public, a holiday single and newsletters. that's all. and sure, maybe simply a bit more generous attitude on ALL sides..to share the love with fellow fans. newbies and long-time members......ALL should enjoy. i really think a mix of seniority with a small contingent of a 'lottery' system for EVERY show would be cool.....but whateva........it's all good.
Travelling is great in itself. A PJ show in these places I'd never been to is just a huge bonus.
absofuckinlutely. pj shows were a handy *excuse*...helped me plan itineraries....meet up with friends....etc. tis the WHOLE package. great seats, shite seats...doesn't matter there, tis the whole *experience.*
i really think a mix of seniority with a small contingent of a 'lottery' system for EVERY show would be cool.
it'd be a great thing, and despite the fact that people will complain no matter what (because that just seems to be the case with PJ fans haha), it would help to make everybody happy. i just get a little annoyed when people make it seem like everybody that has a lower number is an elitist, it's just as unfair to say that peopel who have a higher number aren't as 'faithful' or some crap. i guess i just don't like people being assholes, maybe that's what i'm trying to get at lol
see, here's the problem: i have a good number, but i only get to hit 3, 4, maybe 5 shows a tour. (actually 0 last tour cuz i'm in the south). anyway, why should i get screwed out of my seniority for just the few shows i get to see because people don't like some of the hard-cores who go to 20+ shows a tour? i get to see the band every 3 years at best, it's been 5 years this time. still renewing, still faithful. if it wasn't done by seniority, i'd just join up again every time there's a tour, and the 10c loses 3 years worth of dues. multiply that times 50,000 members, and they're screwed....
i know, i'm an elitist, right?
and i've never thought that i was a "bigger and better" fan than someone who joined later than me, just an earlier fan...
it'd be a great thing, and despite the fact that people will complain no matter what (because that just seems to be the case with PJ fans haha), it would help to make everybody happy. i just get a little annoyed when people make it seem like everybody that has a lower number is an elitist, it's just as unfair to say that peopel who have a higher number aren't as 'faithful' or some crap. i guess i just don't like people being assholes, maybe that's what i'm trying to get at lol
agreed, again, on all counts. i've met more than my fair share of elitists...even in europe, at GA shows! hahahaha. BUT...i've met far, far more cool people, with all sorts of 10c #s. some of my most fave people have awesome #s...and yea...many don't. i've never benefitted from anyone's 'awesome' #....never tried to either, but sure...i've shared my #, other friends have shared with me...it's all good. and absolutely, assholes suck.
it WOULD be nice to see a bit to make everyone a little happy...and everyone a little annoyed, isn't that compromise? hahahaha. liuke i said, i just don't see this as an all or none situation.
dangerboy, i don't think you, or anyone should get *screwed* out of anything. however, i also don't think you...or ANYone should *expect* anything beyond: access to tix before public sales, holiday single and newsletters. anyone with a decent # GOT that decent # BEFORE senority existed, so thus...it should NOT be an 'expectation'...but seen as the gift that it is. and if changes are made...so be it...and if not...so be it. i think as long as we get first access to tix THAT's the best *perk*...and the rest, share a little love! i don't think $100 worth of dues, if it even amounts to THAT....is reason enough to ALWAYS have access to the "best" every single show, every tour, etc, etc. but hey...it's just my little ole opinion, and it don't mean shite. :d tis all just conversation..........
agreed, again, on all counts. i've met more than my fair share of elitists...even in europe, at GA shows! hahahaha. BUT...i've met far, far more cool people, with all sorts of 10c #s. some of my most fave people have awesome #s...and yea...many don't. i've never benefitted from anyone's 'awesome' #....never tried to either, but sure...i've shared my #, other friends have shared with me...it's all good. and absolutely, assholes suck.
it WOULD be nice to see a bit to make everyone a little happy...and everyone a little annoyed, isn't that compromise? hahahaha. liuke i said, i just don't see this as an all or none situation.
dangerboy, i don't think you, or anyone should get *screwed* out of anything. however, i also don't think you...or ANYone should *expect* anything beyond: access to tix before public sales, holiday single and newsletters. anyone with a decent # GOT that decent # BEFORE senority existed, so thus...it should NOT be an 'expectation'...but seen as the gift that it is. and if changes are made...so be it...and if not...so be it. i think as long as we get first access to tix THAT's the best *perk*...and the rest, share a little love! i don't think $100 worth of dues, if it even amounts to THAT....is reason enough to ALWAYS have access to the "best" every single show, every tour, etc, etc. but hey...it's just my little ole opinion, and it don't mean shite. :d tis all just conversation..........
it's not that i expect it so much as i look at it as a reward, not a gift. a gift would be to just plant some front row tickets in my hands if i just joined. the fact that i was in the club before seniority, had to do the index cards, snail mail stuff within a week, snail mail all the years of dues before seniority, getting fan club tickets that weren't really that great...after all that, they REWARDED those of us who did all that with seniority seating. and even then, we still had to fight to be in line, sit in the parking lot for 10 hours, and just plain hope that the block system worked out. it's the American Way: work hard, get rewarded for it. i guess what i'm saying is that since they rewarded us for our faithfulness, it would be pretty shitty of them to take it away now, and reward others who hadn't "paid the dues" (not just money, you understand) with better seats than we get. again, not a comment on anyone's level of "fanness". and if, say, led zeppelin had a similar deal for people who had been in their fan club since 1969, i don't see where i could really bitch about it as someone who might have joined much later. it's not their fault i was only 2 then, nor is it the fault of those who were in the club from the beginning. while i would love to have the same reward they were getting, i don't think it would be fair for me to demand equal treatment...
it's not that i expect it so much as i look at it as a reward, not a gift. a gift would be to just plant some front row tickets in my hands if i just joined. the fact that i was in the club before seniority, had to do the index cards, snail mail stuff within a week, snail mail all the years of dues before seniority...after all that, they REWARDED those of us who did all that with seniority seating. and even then, we still had to fight to be in line, sit in the parking lot for 10 hours, and just plain hope that the block system worked out. it's the American Way: work hard, get rewarded for it. i guess what i'm saying is that since they rewarded us for our faithfulness, it would be pretty shitty of them to take it away now, and reward others who hadn't "paid the dues" (not just money, you understand) with better seats than we get. again, not a comment on anyone's level of "fanness". and if, say, led zeppelin had a similar deal for people who had been in their fan club since 1969, i don't see where i could really bitch about it as someone who might have joined much later. it's not their fault i was only 2 then, nor is it the fault of those who were in the club from the beginning. while i would love to have the same reward they were getting, i don't think it would be fair for me to demand equal treatment...
and thanks for keeping it civil
i totally feel what you're saying, especially the paying dues bit! it's a nice reward that has presented itself after lo these many years.
my feeling is the day that ALL PJ fans manage to be happy at the same time about the same thing....take cover cuz earth is gonna go POP lol
i totally feel what you're saying, especially the paying dues bit! it's a nice reward that has presented itself after lo these many years.
my feeling is the day that ALL PJ fans manage to be happy at the same time about the same thing....take cover cuz earth is gonna go POP lol
bwaha! aint' that the truth!
i think the non-excited, entitlement, elitists are the minority, though. i mean, i've seen them and had to deal with them, but it's been my experience over the years that most people trade each other up, give away extras, sell them at face or whatever. with the gang of people i've hung out with regularly over the last 15 years, we call it "pj karma". it always comes back somehow or other, and it's rewarded our genorosity time after time. once you get it rolling, and it comes back to you just once, you can't help but "pay it forward"...
it's not that i expect it so much as i look at it as a reward, not a gift. a gift would be to just plant some front row tickets in my hands if i just joined. the fact that i was in the club before seniority, had to do the index cards, snail mail stuff within a week, snail mail all the years of dues before seniority, getting fan club tickets that weren't really that great...after all that, they REWARDED those of us who did all that with seniority seating. and even then, we still had to fight to be in line, sit in the parking lot for 10 hours, and just plain hope that the block system worked out. it's the American Way: work hard, get rewarded for it. i guess what i'm saying is that since they rewarded us for our faithfulness, it would be pretty shitty of them to take it away now, and reward others who hadn't "paid the dues" (not just money, you understand) with better seats than we get. again, not a comment on anyone's level of "fanness". and if, say, led zeppelin had a similar deal for people who had been in their fan club since 1969, i don't see where i could really bitch about it as someone who might have joined much later. it's not their fault i was only 2 then, nor is it the fault of those who were in the club from the beginning. while i would love to have the same reward they were getting, i don't think it would be fair for me to demand equal treatment...
and thanks for keeping it civil
i hear ya. my ONLY point was really, it was NOT there from the beginning...but a change, in time...then added it for as many shows as you wanted, etc, etc...so really...it IS a gift, reward, either work for me. you joined w/o knowing/expecting that...and i am sure many, maybe most fanclubs - i have no idea - don't work on a 'seniority' premise. but whatever, even if they did......it just shouldn't be expected, especially ALL the time. btw - i don't bitch, and i am always civil...b/c i see no reason to bitch or not be civil, but sure...i've got opinions...and evidently the time this evening to blather on. i don't think it's anyone's *fault* one way or another. i am not asking, nor expecting them to 'take away' anything from anyone. but sure, add in an ELEMENT of a one row lottery per show...and/or go back to seniority for ONLY one show per tour.....or whatever. i love the idea of seniority for ALL the reasons you state. we're not talking a BIG difference in membership times either. if chiqui joined in 95...i in 02..........7 years? i know many who joined in 98 with very good #s...so 4 years? just sayin'... but yes, for $5 a year....$10 a year...even now $20 a year...i just personally don't think that, even with the other BS that existed is *enough* to warrant basically shutting out a large contingent of your fanclub fanbase from ever getting at least a SHOT at say the first 10 rows at a usual gig in NA. ehhhhhhhhhh...i'ts a good discussion , to me anyway. anyhoooooooooo..i will BE there at as many shows as i can, as long as i can...regardless........but sure, i too occasionally enjoy stirring the pot, and yes...i think change is good, for all. sometimes.
i think the non-excited, entitlement, elitists are the minority, though. i mean, i've seen them and had to deal with them, but it's been my experience over the years that most people trade each other up, give away extras, sell them at face or whatever. with the gang of people i've hung out with regularly over the last 15 years, we call it "pj karma". it always comes back somehow or other, and it's rewarded our genorosity time after time. once you get it rolling, and it comes back to you just once, you can't help but "pay it forward"...
that is so funny, i just mentioned the whole karma thing to a friend not too long ago! i believe in that too, as long as you act cool and don't do anybody wrong, good stuff will come to you eventually
it is good the jerks are indeed in the minority, it can take just a few of them though to make you wanna take your shoe off and start wailing lol
the "row-a-show" thing seems to be a pretty good idea at first glance. maybe something like the 5th row? if by seniority you're 5th row, but you end up 6th row instead that's not that big of a deal really. but if you're usually 20th row and end up 5th, that's huge! and second shows in the same town might go with a completely upside down seniority placement. allows for the hard-cores to get their awesome seats the first night, and the higher members to get them the second. but, of course, that only helps places like san francisco or boston, and not places like grand rapids or atlanta who traditionally only get one show at a time. i don't know, i'm sure there's room for some mixing it up somewhere....
Wow...guess I forgot the passion on this issue when I started this thread..
Thanks for keepin it civil
I like the idea floatin of mixing it up between lottery and seniority...if PJ staff could pull it off for the sake of newer fans (or those who thought fan clubs were cheesy years back and didn't join in the 90s), yet keep the "seniors" (hehe)happy too it would all be good.
If the seniors bitched about an ocassional lottery...well so sorry...cry elsewhere. We'll see what happens!
Wow...guess I forgot the passion on this issue when I started this thread..
Thanks for keepin it civil
I like the idea floatin of mixing it up between lottery and seniority...if PJ staff could pull it off for the sake of newer fans (or those who thought fan clubs were cheesy years back and didn't join in the 90s), yet keep the "seniors" (hehe)happy too it would all be good.
If the seniors bitched about an ocassional lottery...well so sorry...cry elsewhere. We'll see what happens!
i think the important thing to keep in mind is that, as far as the band is concerned, where one sits inside a venue is irrelevant really - the experience is about the music, not about seat location. while SOME of those with lower numbers will always want to uphold the seniority those numbers afforded them and while SOME of those with higher numbers will strive for a system where seniority won't hold as much weight, the 10C will always have the final call (based on the band's recommendations, of course) and will from time-to-time decide to mix things up; however, seniority will NEVER go away.
which brings me back to my original thought: as far as the band, and as far as 10C is concerned, neither of them can ever please every single fan AND they stopped trying LONG ago to please every single fan,...they do what they BELIEVE is right, and MOST agree while SOME disagree. that's about as perfect a system as we'll ever get,...and it's MORE than we deserve from the band and 10C.
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore
Wow...guess I forgot the passion on this issue when I started this thread..
Thanks for keepin it civil
I like the idea floatin of mixing it up between lottery and seniority...if PJ staff could pull it off for the sake of newer fans (or those who thought fan clubs were cheesy years back and didn't join in the 90s), yet keep the "seniors" (hehe)happy too it would all be good.
If the seniors bitched about an ocassional lottery...well so sorry...cry elsewhere. We'll see what happens!
that's a bad attitude. puts people on the defensive and makes them much less willing to be friendly about it. what if i said "if the newbies want to bitch about seniority, well, so sorry. cry elsewhere", how would you take that?
i think the non-excited, entitlement, elitists are the minority, though. i mean, i've seen them and had to deal with them, but it's been my experience over the years that most people trade each other up, give away extras, sell them at face or whatever. with the gang of people i've hung out with regularly over the last 15 years, we call it "pj karma". it always comes back somehow or other, and it's rewarded our genorosity time after time. once you get it rolling, and it comes back to you just once, you can't help but "pay it forward"...
That's what I've run into 95% of the time. It's unfortunate though that the remaining 5% give everyone else a bad name..
that's a bad attitude. puts people on the defensive and makes them much less willing to be friendly about it. what if i said "if the newbies want to bitch about seniority, well, so sorry. cry elsewhere", how would you take that?
Point taken...perhaps I should have mentioned in there that I'm damn near a senior myself.
Hey Patrick! Glad to hear things have stabilized at home! I hope it continues so.... still tough Im sure though
Whats with the move to Denver?
Am I seeing fewer Alpine threads ahead and more about Red Rocks???
Well a week ago I was sitting in the ER so yea it's a little better. Not 100% but getting better. Thanks for the well wishes.
I'm making a change and trying someplace new. I just need to get away from Wisconsin for a little while. Of course if they come back to Alpine I'll be there. Red Rocks would be sweet also.
But I must be careful and not sound greedy. hehehe
haha one day we'll be seeing them from the fan club wheelchair section on a tour sponsored by life alert....
As longs as the boys are rockin I'll be there! I'm close to them in age, so I figure I can rock out in the audience (even if in my "Hooveround") for at least as long as Ed can keep jammin...
Well a week ago I was sitting in the ER so yea it's a little better. Not 100% but getting better. Thanks for the well wishes.
I'm making a change and trying someplace new. I just need to get away from Wisconsin for a little while. Of course if they come back to Alpine I'll be there. Red Rocks would be sweet also.
But I must be careful and not sound greedy. hehehe
You had better make it to Alpine! I had hoped to meet and share a secret thats growin in my basement!
i think the band wants to slowly make their music available to a more diverse audience. they probably get tired of playing to the same crowd of fanboys night after night. seniority should be taken out of the mix so new people can get a chance to see them up close.
I don't have the time or inclination to read through this whole thread, so please forgive me if this has been covered.
Seniority is good if for no other reason than it virtually eliminates scalping of the best seats.
If the tickets were issued to 10-C members randomly, every scalper in the world would pay the $20 to join 10-C, and many (most?) of them would eat up the best tickets.
They'd still have to deal with picking them up at will call and risking getting in trouble for selling them above face value, but so what? Worst case, they get kicked out of 10C and re-join a month later under a different e-mail address. I bet a lot of "real" fans would even scalp. Why not? You'd have nothing to lose, really.
As it stands now, though, the people who have been in 10C long enough to accrue seniority and great tickets (ie, more than 10 years being in the club) are VERY likely to want to hang on to that, so there's VERY low odds that they'd risk the privilege by scalping premium tickets.
"They said ... timing was everything
made him ... want to be everywhere
there's a ... lot to be said for nowhere."
Comments
(the vic was the most by far though..and I won't do that much queuing again...especially without being able to drink like Hinn said!! )
there was the same faces GA for sure, but there was new people front row every show too..
difference is with GA, having had to work at it all day, people are more motivated.. you don't see people just standing there not moving (well, ok, I can think of 1 or 2 exceptions..)
anyway, nothing we can do about it...
i only joined 10c in 2002....when i first became a "big fan" at 34! :eek: haha. so, that said....i really don't know firsthand the whole process, but have read/heard/learned much from older fan club memebers. it is my understanding that in the early, early days...there was NO seniority, at all. GA shows, or i guess simply luck of the draw? that really, you simply got access to tickets before the general public, along with the fan club singles, newsletters, etc. i believe? "seniority" didn't take effect until the 2000? tour...and one show for 10c tix, period. i know 2003, my first year in....still did the postcard/moneyorder thing, but seniority DID exist....and you could purchase multiple 10c tix for the first time? also, block seating was in effect.
so.............from the inception of the band until 2000......no seniority, yes? so then, WHY does anyone think it's their *right*.........? it was never offered to first-time joiners, never promised...so why is it viewed as sacrosant? just sayin'. as bazzer mentioned earlier...there have been MANY changes to the *system* over time, quite a LOT really, since 2000 to now.
and taking it further, going back to 'fanclub loyalty' and all that, i totally agree many have supported the band all these years. many with simply buying albums, going to shows, with no 10c membership...some with. i think once, someone broke down the cost of memberships from day one....starting a $5 for X years, to today at $20....and quite honestly, i don't know the full history, but from say the beginning up until say 2003.....how mucvh did all those early memberships cost a member....100 total over those early years? sure, $100 more than others may've spent, not disputing that...but i just think....is THAT really so MUCH that one DESERVES the BEST seats at EVERY single show? merely thinking out loud. it was NOT promised to anyone....ever....so i don't get that. as i've said, overall..i support seniority...but i really DON"T believe it has to be an either/or...all or none scenario. ONE ROW random.....PER SHOW.....seems a sweet deal. and only one idea.
and............one more little thought: i know of quite a few 'long-term' members...who let their memberships lapse a year or more.....and got their #s back. 10cv was a LOT more lax with that back in the day. so, where is the 'fairness' in that? or, it';s been discussed numerous times how '10c' numbersd really got *assigned* by your first 10c purchase, NOT by when you purchased your membership the first time...so again, is it really so accurate and fair?
honestly, i am just playing devil's advocate here. i'm happy going to shows...being where i am...thankful when i get a better shot. yes, sure, it WOULD be nice someday for me AND my husband to see at show in our HOME state...and somehow manage to be together for the show...with my 10c #...and be within say the first 10 rows. absolutely, would be cool. won't be the end of the world if it never happens either. anyhoooooo....the system is what it is and that's a-ok. only point is with the entitlement/elitist tags that sometimes get thrown around, is there ARE many who DO seem to think they ARE 'entitled'...but i honeslt can't see why, really.
so, if you joined back in say 92 b/c you loved the band...no promise of 'seniority' and all, etc.......why do some say they'd leave the club NOW if seniority ceased? you'd STILL get first shot at tix, or could well get close seats....or always close, depending on if and what changes they made. if it's love for the band, the music, the shows....you'd still have all that. just that maybe, others may have some shot of enjoying the perspective you've enjoyed these last couple years. that's all.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
http://www.twofeetthick.com/tft/readArticle.action?id=12
So that really wasn't the best system either, because not everyone has funds available at all times.
I think that people wouldn't necessary leave the fan club if seniority was no longer the primary consideration for seat location, but I do think there would be a lot less traveling by long term members to shows around the country.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
of course not. i think many of us have echoed that same sentiment a few times, but also...there ARE ways to make it more fun/fair for MORE, that's all. spread/share the love.
that said, i was addressing at least one poster here who said he'd not renew...thus why i made the comments i did. and for those long-term members who may not travel as much? i bet there'd be numerous others who would, given the chance at maybe better seats! hell, i have a shite # and i've traveled all over! it's not *just* about where you are in the venue, although even that improves often with travel...or just the fun of being in a new city/new people/different vibe/different show! i know plenty of people with great ahd shite #s, who travel all over...and i know plenty with awesome #s who never leave home for shows, so i don't think it'll matter much there. i think most who travel to shows do so b/c they so love to see pjh live...and not just to get better seats, and/or because they always have great seats.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
the tickets page on tenclub.net says:
seniority seems to be a relatively new perk in the grand scheme of things. and seeing everything i've been thru just to get to a show over the years, i'm glad it's in place, and it definitely shouldn't be done away with altogether. mixing it up is cool, but it shouldn't be thrown out
i agree, on all counts. and yes, the block system was most definitely in place my first tour, 2003. as i said, bit of playing devil's advocate AND...for those who do seem to have some sense of 'entitlement' to such a perquisite, just a little reminder that NONE were ever promised such, so should never *expect* more than: access to tix before the public, a holiday single and newsletters. that's all. and sure, maybe simply a bit more generous attitude on ALL sides..to share the love with fellow fans. newbies and long-time members......ALL should enjoy. i really think a mix of seniority with a small contingent of a 'lottery' system for EVERY show would be cool.....but whateva........it's all good.
absofuckinlutely. pj shows were a handy *excuse*...helped me plan itineraries....meet up with friends....etc. tis the WHOLE package. great seats, shite seats...doesn't matter there, tis the whole *experience.*
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
i know, i'm an elitist, right?
and i've never thought that i was a "bigger and better" fan than someone who joined later than me, just an earlier fan...
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
agreed, again, on all counts. i've met more than my fair share of elitists...even in europe, at GA shows! hahahaha. BUT...i've met far, far more cool people, with all sorts of 10c #s. some of my most fave people have awesome #s...and yea...many don't. i've never benefitted from anyone's 'awesome' #....never tried to either, but sure...i've shared my #, other friends have shared with me...it's all good. and absolutely, assholes suck.
it WOULD be nice to see a bit to make everyone a little happy...and everyone a little annoyed, isn't that compromise? hahahaha. liuke i said, i just don't see this as an all or none situation.
dangerboy, i don't think you, or anyone should get *screwed* out of anything. however, i also don't think you...or ANYone should *expect* anything beyond: access to tix before public sales, holiday single and newsletters. anyone with a decent # GOT that decent # BEFORE senority existed, so thus...it should NOT be an 'expectation'...but seen as the gift that it is. and if changes are made...so be it...and if not...so be it. i think as long as we get first access to tix THAT's the best *perk*...and the rest, share a little love! i don't think $100 worth of dues, if it even amounts to THAT....is reason enough to ALWAYS have access to the "best" every single show, every tour, etc, etc. but hey...it's just my little ole opinion, and it don't mean shite. :d tis all just conversation..........
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
it's not that i expect it so much as i look at it as a reward, not a gift. a gift would be to just plant some front row tickets in my hands if i just joined. the fact that i was in the club before seniority, had to do the index cards, snail mail stuff within a week, snail mail all the years of dues before seniority, getting fan club tickets that weren't really that great...after all that, they REWARDED those of us who did all that with seniority seating. and even then, we still had to fight to be in line, sit in the parking lot for 10 hours, and just plain hope that the block system worked out. it's the American Way: work hard, get rewarded for it. i guess what i'm saying is that since they rewarded us for our faithfulness, it would be pretty shitty of them to take it away now, and reward others who hadn't "paid the dues" (not just money, you understand) with better seats than we get. again, not a comment on anyone's level of "fanness". and if, say, led zeppelin had a similar deal for people who had been in their fan club since 1969, i don't see where i could really bitch about it as someone who might have joined much later. it's not their fault i was only 2 then, nor is it the fault of those who were in the club from the beginning. while i would love to have the same reward they were getting, i don't think it would be fair for me to demand equal treatment...
and thanks for keeping it civil
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
my feeling is the day that ALL PJ fans manage to be happy at the same time about the same thing....take cover cuz earth is gonna go POP lol
bwaha! aint' that the truth!
i think the non-excited, entitlement, elitists are the minority, though. i mean, i've seen them and had to deal with them, but it's been my experience over the years that most people trade each other up, give away extras, sell them at face or whatever. with the gang of people i've hung out with regularly over the last 15 years, we call it "pj karma". it always comes back somehow or other, and it's rewarded our genorosity time after time. once you get it rolling, and it comes back to you just once, you can't help but "pay it forward"...
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
i hear ya. my ONLY point was really, it was NOT there from the beginning...but a change, in time...then added it for as many shows as you wanted, etc, etc...so really...it IS a gift, reward, either work for me. you joined w/o knowing/expecting that...and i am sure many, maybe most fanclubs - i have no idea - don't work on a 'seniority' premise. but whatever, even if they did......it just shouldn't be expected, especially ALL the time. btw - i don't bitch, and i am always civil...b/c i see no reason to bitch or not be civil, but sure...i've got opinions...and evidently the time this evening to blather on. i don't think it's anyone's *fault* one way or another. i am not asking, nor expecting them to 'take away' anything from anyone. but sure, add in an ELEMENT of a one row lottery per show...and/or go back to seniority for ONLY one show per tour.....or whatever. i love the idea of seniority for ALL the reasons you state. we're not talking a BIG difference in membership times either. if chiqui joined in 95...i in 02..........7 years? i know many who joined in 98 with very good #s...so 4 years? just sayin'... but yes, for $5 a year....$10 a year...even now $20 a year...i just personally don't think that, even with the other BS that existed is *enough* to warrant basically shutting out a large contingent of your fanclub fanbase from ever getting at least a SHOT at say the first 10 rows at a usual gig in NA. ehhhhhhhhhh...i'ts a good discussion , to me anyway. anyhoooooooooo..i will BE there at as many shows as i can, as long as i can...regardless........but sure, i too occasionally enjoy stirring the pot, and yes...i think change is good, for all. sometimes.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
it is good the jerks are indeed in the minority, it can take just a few of them though to make you wanna take your shoe off and start wailing lol
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
Thanks for keepin it civil
I like the idea floatin of mixing it up between lottery and seniority...if PJ staff could pull it off for the sake of newer fans (or those who thought fan clubs were cheesy years back and didn't join in the 90s), yet keep the "seniors" (hehe)happy too it would all be good.
If the seniors bitched about an ocassional lottery...well so sorry...cry elsewhere. We'll see what happens!
i think the important thing to keep in mind is that, as far as the band is concerned, where one sits inside a venue is irrelevant really - the experience is about the music, not about seat location. while SOME of those with lower numbers will always want to uphold the seniority those numbers afforded them and while SOME of those with higher numbers will strive for a system where seniority won't hold as much weight, the 10C will always have the final call (based on the band's recommendations, of course) and will from time-to-time decide to mix things up; however, seniority will NEVER go away.
which brings me back to my original thought: as far as the band, and as far as 10C is concerned, neither of them can ever please every single fan AND they stopped trying LONG ago to please every single fan,...they do what they BELIEVE is right, and MOST agree while SOME disagree. that's about as perfect a system as we'll ever get,...and it's MORE than we deserve from the band and 10C.
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore
that's a bad attitude. puts people on the defensive and makes them much less willing to be friendly about it. what if i said "if the newbies want to bitch about seniority, well, so sorry. cry elsewhere", how would you take that?
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
That's what I've run into 95% of the time. It's unfortunate though that the remaining 5% give everyone else a bad name..
This is my kind of love...
♥♥♥
Point taken...perhaps I should have mentioned in there that I'm damn near a senior myself.
But you are right....peace
Hey Patrick! Glad to hear things have stabilized at home! I hope it continues so.... still tough Im sure though
Whats with the move to Denver?
Am I seeing fewer Alpine threads ahead and more about Red Rocks???
haha one day we'll be seeing them from the fan club wheelchair section on a tour sponsored by life alert....
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
Well a week ago I was sitting in the ER so yea it's a little better. Not 100% but getting better. Thanks for the well wishes.
I'm making a change and trying someplace new. I just need to get away from Wisconsin for a little while. Of course if they come back to Alpine I'll be there. Red Rocks would be sweet also.
But I must be careful and not sound greedy. hehehe
As longs as the boys are rockin I'll be there! I'm close to them in age, so I figure I can rock out in the audience (even if in my "Hooveround") for at least as long as Ed can keep jammin...
You had better make it to Alpine! I had hoped to meet and share a secret thats growin in my basement!
Hang in there (you and the family)!
is your signature for real?
Seniority is good if for no other reason than it virtually eliminates scalping of the best seats.
If the tickets were issued to 10-C members randomly, every scalper in the world would pay the $20 to join 10-C, and many (most?) of them would eat up the best tickets.
They'd still have to deal with picking them up at will call and risking getting in trouble for selling them above face value, but so what? Worst case, they get kicked out of 10C and re-join a month later under a different e-mail address. I bet a lot of "real" fans would even scalp. Why not? You'd have nothing to lose, really.
As it stands now, though, the people who have been in 10C long enough to accrue seniority and great tickets (ie, more than 10 years being in the club) are VERY likely to want to hang on to that, so there's VERY low odds that they'd risk the privilege by scalping premium tickets.
made him ... want to be everywhere
there's a ... lot to be said for nowhere."