Instincts instilled in humans how? How does one randomly evolve a moral compass? Besides, it seems to me that, for survival, the natural instinct would be to look out foe ourselves first. To do what was needed to ensure MY survival. And for everyone else to do the same. If we're talking about logic here, i think you missed on this one.
Because a broader scale of survival requires us to protect each other and learn to live with one another. If we ALL just looked out for ourselves chaos would ensue. Like Ahminus touched on, our instincts have evolved beyond this primitive, narrow minded urge to only look out for ones self. People now how the ability to reason while looking at the bigger picture.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Because a broader scale of survival requires us to protect each other and learn to live with one another. If we ALL just looked out for ourselves chaos would ensue. Like Ahminus touched on, our instincts have evolved beyond this primitive, narrow minded urge to only look out for ones self. People now how the ability to reason while looking at the bigger picture.
You'll have to explain to me how, for example, charitable giving to the poor, is an example of an evolved, survival of the fittest, type behavior. It does nothing to ensure the survival of the species. It could be argued that it does just the opposite! By aiding in the survival of what could be determined the weaker, less fortunante members of the species, rather than ensuring the dominance of the stronger, it could be said that you actually hurt the chances of species survival by allowing the weak links to survive.
You're doing nothing to demonstrate a coincidental development of a moral compass. A human ability to know right from wrong, and engage in the right despite any faith induced guilt, as some here have labeled it.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
No more than 100 years ago people would spit in each others faces and urinate on their feet simply because they disagreed. Go back 3000 years and it's a lot different.
And in today's society, there are some who would jast as soon shoot you in the face for the same simple reasons. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing. It doesn't mean they didn't know the that behavior was wrong. It simply means that, in all likelihood, they knew it was wrong, yet did it anyway. Those people then end up with A LOT of free time to think about it. If not, we consider them INSANE.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
And in today's society, there are some who would jast as soon shoot you in the face for the same simple reasons. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing. It doesn't mean they didn't know the that behavior was wrong. It simply means that, in all likelihood, they knew it was wrong, yet did it anyway. Those people then end up with A LOT of free time to think about it. If not, we consider them INSANE.
So, you think that we all have a devinely inspired right or wrong mechanism which some 'choose' to ignore and thus choose evil over good?
Outside of this mythical mechanism there is absolutely nothing attributed to violence and suffering? It's a battle of good vs evil?
That ultimately results in ignorance. Because it takes emphasis from what is really causing the problem. Usually poverty or some humanitarian crisis. It really has nothing to do with god, imo.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
You'll have to explain to me how, for example, charitable giving to the poor, is an example of an evolved, survival of the fittest, type behavior. It does nothing to ensure the survival of the species. It could be argued that it does just the opposite! By aiding in the survival of what could be determined the weaker, less fortunante members of the species, rather than ensuring the dominance of the stronger, it could be said that you actually hurt the chances of species survival by allowing the weak links to survive.
You're doing nothing to demonstrate a coincidental development of a moral compass. A human ability to know right from wrong, and engage in the right despite any faith induced guilt, as some here have labeled it.
We are evolving beyond survival of the fittest, though it is a work in progress. It is evolving towards reducing conflict between the haves and have nots. These instincts guide us towards living in harmony because life can no longer flourish and advance with the primitive instinct of survival of the strongest. The weak have greater numbers and that puts the strong at a huge disadvantage. The weak will always revolt and chaos ensues. War and death...instability follow. Our species can only further advancement by striving towards harmony...ie 'the bigger picture'. The visionaries have evolved already and I believe if we are to continue on, this progress must catch on more widely.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And in today's society, there are some who would jast as soon shoot you in the face for the same simple reasons. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing. It doesn't mean they didn't know the that behavior was wrong. It simply means that, in all likelihood, they knew it was wrong, yet did it anyway. Those people then end up with A LOT of free time to think about it. If not, we consider them INSANE.
Those people have not evolved yet. They only strive for their own survival, demonstrating limited ability to invision the future.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
So why would god have it that only some of his creations listen to him? To believe in an 'all knowing god' there can be no free will. So why create this apparent set up for conflict and suffering? Entertainment perhaps?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
We are evolving beyond survival of the fittest, though it is a work in progress. It is evolving towards reducing conflict between the haves and have nots. These instincts guide us towards living in harmony because life can no longer flourish and advance with the primitive instinct of survival of the strongest. The weak have greater numbers and that puts the strong at a huge disadvantage. The weak will always revolt and chaos ensues. War and death...instability follow. Our species can only further advancement by striving towards harmony...ie 'the bigger picture'. The visionaries have evolved already and I believe if we are to continue on, this progress must catch on more widely.
So you are proposing that people are now evolving in a way that no other species has and that nature has never worked before. You propose that billions of years of evolution have been wrong and only provide an evolutionary dead-end, and that survival of the fittest has come or is coming to an evolutionary end. Interesting scientific proposal, would love to see where you have any examples to back this theory up.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
We are evolving beyond survival of the fittest, though it is a work in progress. It is evolving towards reducing conflict between the haves and have nots. These instincts guide us towards living in harmony because life can no longer flourish and advance with the primitive instinct of survival of the strongest. The weak have greater numbers and that puts the strong at a huge disadvantage. The weak will always revolt and chaos ensues. War and death...instability follow. Our species can only further advancement by striving towards harmony...ie 'the bigger picture'. The visionaries have evolved already and I believe if we are to continue on, this progress must catch on more widely.
So you're saying that the reason people do good things (at least those without faith) is to pacify the less fortunate? To keep them from revolting and taking and redistributing all their shit? People only do good to prevent war that would ultimately be a bad thing for them and their children? People (again, those without faith) are only doing good things because of their own selfish ulterior motives? Because that would mean they really had no moral compass at all. It would imply that people without faith were really only trying to cover their own ass. Their good deeds are not really good deeds at all. Is that what you're saying? I'm not trying to paint you into a corner here. I'm just trying to understand. Am i misunderstanding? Or did you put metaphorical foot into metaphorical mouth?
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Delusions of Grandiuer is what I would call that. Having a belief in something nearly impossible, highly improbable at best, is ok, but I don't think it's wise to use that to explain everything and thus ignore the real causes.
Personally I think if we are to evolve beyond our current position we need to abolish that kind of thinking, it serves only to hinder our advances. Perhaps in the past believing in a higher power and applying that to our lives has worked. However, we are referring to principles thousands of years old, our modern technology and knowledge should be capable of developing better principles.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
So you're saying that the reason people do good things (at least those without faith) is to pacify the less fortunate? To keep them from revolting and taking and redistributing all their shit? People only do good to prevent war that would ultimately be a bad thing for them and their children? People (again, those without faith) are only doing good things because of their own selfish ulterior motives? Because that would mean they really had no moral compass at all. It would imply that people without faith were really only trying to cover their own ass. Their good deeds are not really good deeds at all. Is that what you're saying? I'm not trying to paint you into a corner here. I'm just trying to understand. Am i misunderstanding? Or did you put metaphorical foot into metaphorical mouth?
That has nothing to do with faith. What about that priest that supposedly killed that nun? What about the cases of priest pedophiles? Just because someone has faith doesn't mean anything. It just shows they are willing to bet against the odds. That's about it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Those people have not evolved yet. They only strive for their own survival, demonstrating limited ability to invision the future.
So, you're saying that you and i are at a completely different level of evolution than the guy who knows its wrong to, lets say, steal candy from small children, yet does it anyway? We're completely different species? Sorry, but i have to file that one in the "completely ILlogical" folder.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
So you are proposing that people are now evolving in a way that no other species has and that nature has never worked before. You propose that billions of years of evolution have been wrong and only provide an evolutionary dead-end, and that survival of the fittest has come or is coming to an evolutionary end. Interesting scientific proposal, would love to see where you have any examples to back this theory up.
Evolution has no right or wrong, only change given the environment we live in which is also constantly changing. Survival of the fittest is evolving to a broader survival. I can only look at around at the world today where survival of one's self rules the day to prove my point. War and instability are the products of this mindset. These are just my thoughts on the topic and I can only point to life as I see it to give you examples.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Just because someone has faith doesn't mean anything. It just shows they are willing to bet against the odds. That's about it.
When did i ever say it did? I didn't. So now that i've brought you full circle, and you're back to simply referring to faith as "mythical, sick, delusions of grandeur", and providing no real support material, i guess thats it for now.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
For someone who is a proponent of logic you must understand why it would be absurd for me to watch a video of someone else's beliefs in order to understand my own principles.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
When did i ever say it did? I didn't. So now that i've brought you full circle, and you're back to simply referring to faith as "mythical, sick, delusions of grandeur", and providing no real support material, i guess thats it for now.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
No, I said your concept of a "evil and good" mechanism was sick, mythical and delusional. I apologize, but do you honestly think that's a good measure?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
So, you're saying that you and i are at a completely different level of evolution than the guy who knows its wrong to, lets say, steal candy from small children, yet does it anyway? We're completely different species? Sorry, but i have to file that one in the "completely ILlogical" folder.
No we are the same species, but soem have advanced further past primitive thinking than others. That's not illogical and has alot to do with education and lack of brain stimulation. Obviously to us, we know it is wrong to steal, why doesn't the guy you mentioned know it? He's still only looking out for himself not looking ahead too far, at all. He chances of survival living this way are very slim but he only sees the here and now of surviving. We know we need a better plan.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
For someone who is a proponent of logic you must understand why it would be absurd for me to watch a video of someone else's beliefs in order to understand my own principles.
Oh I see, so by your definition, logic is one-sided? We shouldn't subject ourselves to an alternate analysis of our beliefs because it may have negative implications?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Oh I see, so by your definition, logic is one-sided? We shouldn't subject ourselves to an alternate analysis of our beliefs because it may have negative implications?
Well considering no one has asked me what my beliefs are watching a video is not going to in any way be an analysis of my beliefs, now is it. Besides RVM is streaming right now, I'm not watching any damn video at the moment.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Obviously to us, we know it is wrong to steal, why doesn't the guy you mentioned know it? He's still only looking out for himself not looking ahead too far, at all. He chances of survival living this way are very slim but he only sees the here and now of surviving. We know we need a better plan.
Or, far more likely, he understands its wrong, but doesn't want to pay for the shit! Give me a break. Seriously.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Or, far more likely, he understands its wrong, but doesn't want to pay for the shit! Give me a break. Seriously.
Yes, and this thinking is unevolved. He hasn't evolved into thinking with the bigger picture in perspective. He doesn't want to pay because money ensures survival. He views short term monetary gain over long term harmony with those around him.
What do you mean give you a break? I'm discussing my thoughts...what seems to be the problem?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Yes, and this thinking is unevolved. He hasn't evolved into thinking with the bigger picture in perspective. He doesn't want to pay because money ensures survival. He views short term monetary gain over long term harmony with those around him.
What do you mean give you a break? I'm discussing my thoughts...what seems to be the problem?
No problem, actually. The break i'm asking for is because i think you are seriously grasping here and coming up empty. Maybe a better choice of words would be "give your self a break". i honestly think you are a rational person so you must understand how your attempts at logic are in fact only digging yourself into a deeper hole. You are totally entitled to your thoughts and opinions. I totally respect them. i honestly don't think you've put much thought into this last batch of them, however. My guess is you're making them up as you go along. Oh well. if nothing else you may be onto to a brilliant new criminal defense plea. "Not guilty by reason of being unevolved". Its fucking brilliant!
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
No problem, actually. The break i'm asking for is because i think you are seriously grasping here and coming up empty. Maybe a better choice of words would be "give your self a break". i honestly think you are a rational person so you must understand how your attempts at logic are in fact only digging yourself into a deeper hole. You are totally entitled to your thoughts and opinions. I totally respect them. i honestly don't think you've put much thought into this last batch of them, however. My guess is you're making them up as you go along. Oh well. if nothing else you may be onto to a brilliant new criminal defense plea. "Not guilty by reason of being unevolved". Its fucking brilliant!
I don't see my logic as grasping. It makes perfect sense to me. But I can see how such thoughts may frighten you because they can shake your current beliefs. You can say they don't but your anger and emotion says otherwise.
I never said being less evolved makes someone not guility. But I do see the need to educate these people so they can see the err in their methods. That's what rehabilitation is all about.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I don't see my logic as grasping. It makes perfect sense to me. But I can see how such thoughts may frighten you because they can shake your current beliefs. You can say they don't but your anger and emotion says otherwise.
I never said being less evolved makes someone not guility. But I do see the need to educate these people so they can see the err in their methods. That's what rehabilitation is all about.
Actually it would make them completely innocent as by your way of thinking they are unequiped to do better than they did.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Actually it would make them completely innocent as by your way of thinking they are unequiped to do better than they did.
Well, I do not think of people as good vs evil ones. The guilt lies in the fact that he did steal. How we choose to deal with that as a society is up to us. Bad behavior must be addressed and discouraged. I think rehabilitation is a better long term solution. It's definitely a subject that could use some new, fresh discourse because it can be quite tricky.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Comments
Because a broader scale of survival requires us to protect each other and learn to live with one another. If we ALL just looked out for ourselves chaos would ensue. Like Ahminus touched on, our instincts have evolved beyond this primitive, narrow minded urge to only look out for ones self. People now how the ability to reason while looking at the bigger picture.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You'll have to explain to me how, for example, charitable giving to the poor, is an example of an evolved, survival of the fittest, type behavior. It does nothing to ensure the survival of the species. It could be argued that it does just the opposite! By aiding in the survival of what could be determined the weaker, less fortunante members of the species, rather than ensuring the dominance of the stronger, it could be said that you actually hurt the chances of species survival by allowing the weak links to survive.
You're doing nothing to demonstrate a coincidental development of a moral compass. A human ability to know right from wrong, and engage in the right despite any faith induced guilt, as some here have labeled it.
And in today's society, there are some who would jast as soon shoot you in the face for the same simple reasons. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing. It doesn't mean they didn't know the that behavior was wrong. It simply means that, in all likelihood, they knew it was wrong, yet did it anyway. Those people then end up with A LOT of free time to think about it. If not, we consider them INSANE.
So, you think that we all have a devinely inspired right or wrong mechanism which some 'choose' to ignore and thus choose evil over good?
Outside of this mythical mechanism there is absolutely nothing attributed to violence and suffering? It's a battle of good vs evil?
That ultimately results in ignorance. Because it takes emphasis from what is really causing the problem. Usually poverty or some humanitarian crisis. It really has nothing to do with god, imo.
We are evolving beyond survival of the fittest, though it is a work in progress. It is evolving towards reducing conflict between the haves and have nots. These instincts guide us towards living in harmony because life can no longer flourish and advance with the primitive instinct of survival of the strongest. The weak have greater numbers and that puts the strong at a huge disadvantage. The weak will always revolt and chaos ensues. War and death...instability follow. Our species can only further advancement by striving towards harmony...ie 'the bigger picture'. The visionaries have evolved already and I believe if we are to continue on, this progress must catch on more widely.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Yes. I do. I thought i made that very clear.
Those people have not evolved yet. They only strive for their own survival, demonstrating limited ability to invision the future.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
So why would god have it that only some of his creations listen to him? To believe in an 'all knowing god' there can be no free will. So why create this apparent set up for conflict and suffering? Entertainment perhaps?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
So you're saying that the reason people do good things (at least those without faith) is to pacify the less fortunate? To keep them from revolting and taking and redistributing all their shit? People only do good to prevent war that would ultimately be a bad thing for them and their children? People (again, those without faith) are only doing good things because of their own selfish ulterior motives? Because that would mean they really had no moral compass at all. It would imply that people without faith were really only trying to cover their own ass. Their good deeds are not really good deeds at all. Is that what you're saying? I'm not trying to paint you into a corner here. I'm just trying to understand. Am i misunderstanding? Or did you put metaphorical foot into metaphorical mouth?
Sick!
Delusions of Grandiuer is what I would call that. Having a belief in something nearly impossible, highly improbable at best, is ok, but I don't think it's wise to use that to explain everything and thus ignore the real causes.
Personally I think if we are to evolve beyond our current position we need to abolish that kind of thinking, it serves only to hinder our advances. Perhaps in the past believing in a higher power and applying that to our lives has worked. However, we are referring to principles thousands of years old, our modern technology and knowledge should be capable of developing better principles.
That has nothing to do with faith. What about that priest that supposedly killed that nun? What about the cases of priest pedophiles? Just because someone has faith doesn't mean anything. It just shows they are willing to bet against the odds. That's about it.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
So, you're saying that you and i are at a completely different level of evolution than the guy who knows its wrong to, lets say, steal candy from small children, yet does it anyway? We're completely different species? Sorry, but i have to file that one in the "completely ILlogical" folder.
Evolution has no right or wrong, only change given the environment we live in which is also constantly changing. Survival of the fittest is evolving to a broader survival. I can only look at around at the world today where survival of one's self rules the day to prove my point. War and instability are the products of this mindset. These are just my thoughts on the topic and I can only point to life as I see it to give you examples.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If you are getting your principles from the Bible then you are a scary prejudice person.
Watch: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-8463073960287313294&q=bullshit+bible
When did i ever say it did? I didn't. So now that i've brought you full circle, and you're back to simply referring to faith as "mythical, sick, delusions of grandeur", and providing no real support material, i guess thats it for now.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
No, I said your concept of a "evil and good" mechanism was sick, mythical and delusional. I apologize, but do you honestly think that's a good measure?
No we are the same species, but soem have advanced further past primitive thinking than others. That's not illogical and has alot to do with education and lack of brain stimulation. Obviously to us, we know it is wrong to steal, why doesn't the guy you mentioned know it? He's still only looking out for himself not looking ahead too far, at all. He chances of survival living this way are very slim but he only sees the here and now of surviving. We know we need a better plan.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Oh I see, so by your definition, logic is one-sided? We shouldn't subject ourselves to an alternate analysis of our beliefs because it may have negative implications?
But his point about knowledge is dead on. Technology is only a product of our knowledge.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Now that, is logic.
naděje umírá poslední
Or, far more likely, he understands its wrong, but doesn't want to pay for the shit! Give me a break. Seriously.
Yes, and this thinking is unevolved. He hasn't evolved into thinking with the bigger picture in perspective. He doesn't want to pay because money ensures survival. He views short term monetary gain over long term harmony with those around him.
What do you mean give you a break? I'm discussing my thoughts...what seems to be the problem?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
No problem, actually. The break i'm asking for is because i think you are seriously grasping here and coming up empty. Maybe a better choice of words would be "give your self a break". i honestly think you are a rational person so you must understand how your attempts at logic are in fact only digging yourself into a deeper hole. You are totally entitled to your thoughts and opinions. I totally respect them. i honestly don't think you've put much thought into this last batch of them, however. My guess is you're making them up as you go along. Oh well. if nothing else you may be onto to a brilliant new criminal defense plea. "Not guilty by reason of being unevolved". Its fucking brilliant!
I don't see my logic as grasping. It makes perfect sense to me. But I can see how such thoughts may frighten you because they can shake your current beliefs. You can say they don't but your anger and emotion says otherwise.
I never said being less evolved makes someone not guility. But I do see the need to educate these people so they can see the err in their methods. That's what rehabilitation is all about.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Well, I do not think of people as good vs evil ones. The guilt lies in the fact that he did steal. How we choose to deal with that as a society is up to us. Bad behavior must be addressed and discouraged. I think rehabilitation is a better long term solution. It's definitely a subject that could use some new, fresh discourse because it can be quite tricky.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde