Logic can only take you as far as knowledge and knowledge is limited. Science is limited by knowledge as well, how many scientific theories have been proving wrong or absurd over the years?
So, logic is not the only answer to questions. Is philosphy a science? What about literature? But don't these areas teach us as well?
Faith is extremely limited, though. There is no room for advancements and new findings. It is what it is and you have to accept it blindly, without question. I have a problem with living my life in hopes of some all mighty god clearing up all my questions for me in the after life. I want to live now and follow my senses and my own consciousness, free to experience life with out a set of rules that I don't fully understand the need for.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Can't we all accept that religion is somewhat faulty, and science is too?
I'm all for accepting that kindness goes a long a way, as does local charity. I'm all for doing the right thing. I'm all for standing up for myself, though, when someone tries to do me wrong. I'm all for trying to save this planet we're on, and the people currently clinging to it.
Can't we all accept that religion is somewhat faulty, and science is too?
I'm all for accepting that kindness goes a long a way, as does local charity. I'm all for doing the right thing. I'm all for standing up for myself, though, when someone tries to do me wrong. I'm all for trying to save this planet we're on, and the people currently clinging to it.
Can't it be that easy????
Both are faulty but science changes it's faults and it's constantly improving whereas religion doen't correct itself, advance or evolve. It is what it is...no questions or new ways of living/believing are accepted. One learns and one stays stuck in the same thought.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Faith is extremely limited, though. There is no room for advancements and new findings. It is what it is and you have to accept it blindly, without question. I have a problem with living my life in hopes of some all mighty god clearing up all my questions for me in the after life. I want to live now and follow my senses and my own consciousness, free to experience life with out a set of rules that I don't fully understand the need for.
It seems like you have the same 'hang ups' I do when it pertains to most organized religions. There are tenets that are very hard to swallow, at least for me. I was once told that looking for spirituality or God through science and logic was wrong, that such a journey required faith, a concept I've always had a hard time with. So, how does one suddenly take a leap of faith? And then I came to realize faith is somewhat a part of science, esp physics. The inverse-square law of electrical force has been tested many times in numerous ways and it always holds. Yet we can never be absolutely certain that it applies unfailingly, but on the basis of induction, we can conclude only that it is very probable that the law will hold the next time it is tested, so I have faith that the inverse square law of electrical force will hold once again.
So then maybe my problem wasn't with faith so much, since I chose to put my faith into experiments I can replicate numerous times in a lab or faith that the sun will rise, since it has risen every time in my experience. Putting faith in something so esoteric, like a higher power is hard, esp when you have scriptures that you disagree with or don't understand or perhaps just find innately wrong.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
including the book amongst the many on the shelf....
I have read the Bible and I've found many problems with it. Many problems. I have read Buddha's writings and I liked them but I found problems with those too. I have read other writings on religion and I've never been able to pigeon-hole myself into any one religion on this earth. To this day, I'm an agnostic.
I have no answers. I just have faith that when it all comes down to it, being kind and understanding is the best way to be. Accepting differences is the best way to go. Watching the scientists learn what they learn will help us all grow, but holding onto the good lessons that seem outdated can't hurt any of us either.
That's what I believe.
EDIT: I also believe that when any given religion tries to push itself onto other peoples of other faiths.....or no faith.......only hell breaks loose. So IMHO it ain't worth the war.
including the book amongst the many on the shelf....
I have read the Bible and I've found many problems with it. Many problems. I have read Buddha's writings and I liked them but I found problems with those too. I have read other writings on religion and I've never been able to pigeon-hole myself into any one religion on this earth. To this day, I'm an agnostic.
I have no answers. I just have faith that when it all comes down to it, being kind and understanding is the best way to be. Accepting differences is the best way to go. Watching the scientists learn what they learn will help us all grow, but holding onto the good lessons that seem outdated can't hurt any of us either.
That's what I believe.
EDIT: I also believe that when any given religion tries to push itself onto other peoples of other faiths.....or no faith.......only hell breaks loose. So IMHO it ain't worth the war.
I'm cool with a person believing whatever they want as long their beliefs aren't used to condemn or discriminate against people with differing views....especially when we can't prove any of these beliefs to be true. I'm sharing my reasonings as to why I choose not to believe but I don't want to push anyone into believing as I do, not do I want laws condemning believers based on my disbelief. I'm just putting my questions out here to discuss. I say let everyone live as they see fit as long as it's not at the expense of someone else's life or choosen path.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I don't get the LOGIC behind The Bible being right because the Bible says the Bible is right... I think you need to enjoy life, and not be worried about what happens after. When I'm dead I'm dead. Thats it. I'll live my life the way I want to. If I go to hell, there are a lot of cool people coming with me.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
It seems like you have the same 'hang ups' I do when it pertains to most organized religions. There are tenets that are very hard to swallow, at least for me. I was once told that looking for spirituality or God through science and logic was wrong, that such a journey required faith, a concept I've always had a hard time with. So, how does one suddenly take a leap of faith? And then I came to realize faith is somewhat a part of science, esp physics. The inverse-square law of electrical force has been tested many times in numerous ways and it always holds. Yet we can never be absolutely certain that it applies unfailingly, but on the basis of induction, we can conclude only that it is very probable that the law will hold the next time it is tested, so I have faith that the inverse square law of electrical force will hold once again.
So then maybe my problem wasn't with faith so much, since I chose to put my faith into experiments I can replicate numerous times in a lab or faith that the sun will rise, since it has risen every time in my experience. Putting faith in something so esoteric, like a higher power is hard, esp when you have scriptures that you disagree with or don't understand or perhaps just find innately wrong.
I just haven't came to the conclusion as to if god exists or not. All I can do is keep asking the questions I have, and express my doubts until I find something that either makes me want to believe or supports my current leanings. I'm always open to discussion of these things or i wouldn't come here. I have hard time with the 'imperfect beings theory' who can't fully understand god and his power. It gives the illusion that we are born to fail and they our species will/can not evolve into a more perfect one. People see themselves as imperfect servants of god, so they pray for forgivesness instead of actually fixing these problems that plague humanity. Righteousness is a problem to me. Questioning him is blasphemy and sometimes considered a weak faith or a lost path. You didn't get lost, you are only making your own path instead following one that already made for you. Why would god give you a wonderful brain and then not expect you to use it!
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I just haven't came to conclusion as to if god exists or not. All I can do is keep asking the questions I have, and express my doubts until I find something that either makes me want to believe or supports my current leanings. I'm always open to discussion of these things or i wouldn't come here. I have hard time with the 'imperfect beings theory' who can't fully understand god and his power. It gives the illusion that we are born to fail and they our species will not evolve into a more perfect one. People see themselves as imperfect servants of god, so they pray for forgivesness instead of actually fixing these problems that plague humanity. Righteousness is a problem to me. People see themsleves are servants of god. Questioning him is blasphemy and sometimes considered a weak faith or lost path. You didn't get lost, you are only making your own path instead following one that already made for you. Why would god give you a wonderful brain and then not expect you to use it!
You raise some interesting points. Personally, I wasn't raised with organize religion, so I might not have some of the 'scars' others do when it comes to the subject. Up until about 6 years ago, I would have called myself an atheist. I came to my belief that there is something more out there through non-traditional ways, mainly philosophical discussions and reading, what I know about science, etc (although I haven't tackled any traditional bibical text yet). I definitely see your point about how people will use it to 'excuse' behavior and shrug off responsibility. I believe there is more than one path to God and I know the major religions do not agree with this. This is one of my biggest frustrations with religion in general.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I also have a problem with the answering of the question: Why does god let inoocent people suffer? God doesn't let people suffer...people let people suffer. They just write it off as 'god's mysterious plan' and tuck themselves in at night with that false sense of comfort. They don't bother to look into whats' causing the suffering bc it's gods supposed will.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The big man called the press today, he said
"There's something that I'd like to confess today,
get something off of my chest today,
and get us all out of a mess today.
He said, "I don't know how I ever got here, I was thinking last night,
drunk on beer, I've murdered people, I've played on your fear, dumb
and vain, it seemed so clear." Put a gun in his mouth, the metal tasted,
he mumbled, "I'm sorry for your time I've wasted."
The flag behind him, scarlet basted,
the ambulance screamed and the news men chased it.
WooThere is a God, there is a God.
Don't doubt it, you got to shout it, there is a God.
Into the hallways reporters spill, multi-national corporation
boardroom-filled, apologizing for the people they killed, to make
amends schools they'd build. And they burned their suits and made a vow,
to only be working on hospitals now, and the NRA, as if on cue,
killed themselves, it was the least they could do.
Headlines bulge with mass suicide,
tormentors whose last acts of pride,
went to the mirror and when the image subsides,
what they beheld they could not abide.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I also have a problem with the answering of the question: Why does god let inoocent people suffer? God doesn't let people suffer...people let people suffer. They just write it off as 'god's mysterious plan' and tuck themselves in at night with that false sense of comfort. They don't bother to look into whats' causing the suffering bc it's gods supposed will.
Tough questions, Abook and I don't have any answers for you. Of course, that doesn't mean I won't try to seek the answers. Another tough one for me personally is the idea that there is only one correct path to God, so let's hope we all choice wisely, eh. I can not accept the idea that a good person of a different faith will not be accepted or doomed to an eternity hell fire. It gets complicated, but I try not to let those things impede my personal relationship with God and what I feel in my heart.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Tough questions, Abook and I don't have any answers for you. Of course, that doesn't mean I won't try to seek the answers. Another tough one for me personally is the idea that there is only one correct path to God, so let's hope we all choice wisely, eh. I can not accept the idea that a good person of a different faith will not be accepted or doomed to an eternity hell fire. It gets complicated, but I try not to let those things impede my personal relationship with God and what I feel in my heart.
Yes, your question is a good one. It means god is a vengeful god and that, of course, is an imperfection. I'm so glad there are people like you who aren't afraid to raise these questions and still hold on to their own personal beliefs while intertwining them with logical thinking. I've enjoyed discussing these questions with you, greatly and appreciate it so much.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
We don't know if God exists. We only know that we exist in this level of a physical existance at this place, at this time. We don't know what happens when we die.
If you believe in God... do you do good things because you believe God is watching over everything you do? What about the person that does not believe in God and does good things? Who is more sincerely doing good... the person who believes he is being watched or the one that does good because he believes doing good is just the right thing to do?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
We don't know if God exists. We only know that we exist in this level of a physical existance at this place, at this time. We don't know what happens when we die.
If you believe in God... do you do good things because you believe God is watching over everything you do? What about the person that does not believe in God and does good things? Who is more sincerely doing good... the person who believes he is being watched or the one that does good because he believes doing good is just the right thing to do?
To quote Joey Tribiane, there is no selfless good deed.
Let me preface this by saying that i have three sons of my own. i was present throughout the conception, gestation, and birth of all three. Absolutely amazing. i have an immeasureable amount of respect for my wife (and women in general) for the role they play in propogating the species.
That being said, i must point out that you created nothing on your own, if in fact you created it at all. A man was necessary. Half of the DNA is his. You seem to imply that men are completely unneeded and unimportant in this process. i find that a tad ridiculous. i might also ask did you actually create anything? Or, did you just provide the material?
Again i don't mean to take away from what you have accomplished.
to imply that men are completely unneeded and unimportant was not my intention. and you're right, it is a tad ridiculous to even suggest that they are.
oh yes i did create something. i created four truly wonderful individuals. for sure they are also the creation of their father. and what we created them with was handed down to us through our forebears. but i also know that without me these beautiful people would not have made it to stand barefoot on this earth.
but you know cornnifer, any fool can make and give birth to a child. the real accomplishment comes in the raising.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yes, your question is a good one. It means god is a vengeful god and that, of course, is an imperfection. I'm so glad there are people like you who aren't afraid to raise these questions and still hold on to their own personal beliefs while intertwining them with logical thinking. I've enjoyed discussing these questions with you, greatly and appreciate it so much.
Thanks, Abook! I've enjoyed discussing this topic with you as well! You always bring a fresh prespective to the table and I always appreciate & enjoy your opinions and ideas.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
We don't know if God exists. We only know that we exist in this level of a physical existance at this place, at this time. We don't know what happens when we die.
True, but we all have beliefs based on incomplete information. My beliefs based on incomplete information are just as valid as yours.
If you believe in God... do you do good things because you believe God is watching over everything you do?
For myself, I try to good things because it's the right thing to do. Those right things to do are based on my interpretation of the bible. Just like when you were a kid, hopefully you tried to do the good things because it was the right thing to do and not so mommy and daddy would love you more. Because that's not how unconditional love works.
Who is more sincerely doing good... the person who believes he is being watched or the one that does good because he believes doing good is just the right thing to do?
Again, good question and I have no answer for you but trust in God to work it out. From a practical point of view I'm just both parties are doing good things, regardless of motivation. There's not enough good things happening in this world so the last thing I'm going to do is knock someone's motive.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Yes, your question is a good one. It means god is a vengeful god and that, of course, is an imperfection.
Why does it mean God is vengeful? You've made a big leap in logic here and one not backed by evidence or circumstances. Transferring your ideas of self onto another.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
What about the person that does not believe in God and does good things? the ?
What about 'em? i'm glad you asked. Let's take a look at this shall we. You're absolutely right. There are many, many people who have no faith in God, yet do good things everyday. No question about that. Where do they get this moral compass? They just have it. Its just right. They avoid bad behaviors for the same reason. They're just wrong. There are some things that, quite simply, are right, and others, that are, obviously, wrong, and they, despite a complete lack of faith, know the difference. Whats more, many of these things are, basically, instinctual. You don't really have to teach anyone that to kill, for example, is wrong. Everyone deemed sane just understands that. In a court of law, if someone who has done something heinously bad, but, is determined to not have known what they were doing was wrong, they are deemed INSANE. Are you following me. The point is rational, sane, people are able to determine universally accepted rights and wrongs with or without spiritual faith or any religious affiliation. How? You see, i believe it is instlled in us devinely. This moral imperative is, IMO, solid philosophical evidence for the existence of God. So, when people argue that belief in God is illogical because one cannot SEE God, i have to beg to differ. You see, When i see people with absolutely no faith in God practicing moral behavior, just because it is right, I DO see God.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
What about 'em? i'm glad you asked. Let's take a look at this shall we. You're absolutely right. There are many, many people who have no faith in God, yet do good things everyday. No question about that. Where do they get this moral compass? They just have it. Its just right. They avoid bad behaviors for the same reason. They're just wrong. There are some things that, quite simply, are right, and others, that are, obviously, wrong, and they, despite a complete lack of faith, know the difference. Whats more, many of these things are, basically, instinctual. You don't really have to teach anyone that to kill, for example, is wrong. Everyone deemed sane just understands that. In a court of law, if someone who has done something heinously bad, but, is determined to not have known what they were doing was wrong, they are deemed INSANE. Are you following me. The point is rational, sane, people are able to determine universally accepted rights and wrongs with or without spiritual faith or any religious affiliation. How? You see, i believe it is instlled in us devinely. This moral imperative is, IMO, solid philosophical evidence for the existence of God. So, when people argue that belief in God is illogical because one cannot SEE God, i have to beg to differ. You see, When i see people with absolutely no faith in God practicing moral behavior, just because it is right, I DO see God.
You see it as God, I see it as instincts instilled in humans to ensure the survival of our species. If we ignore or lose these instincts we will, in the end, become extinct.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You see it as God, I see it as instincts instilled in humans to ensure the survival of our species. If we ignore or lose these instincts we will, in the end, become extinct.
Instincts instilled in humans how? How does one randomly evolve a moral compass? Besides, it seems to me that, for survival, the natural instinct would be to look out foe ourselves first. To do what was needed to ensure MY survival. And for everyone else to do the same. If we're talking about logic here, i think you missed on this one.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
What about 'em? i'm glad you asked. Let's take a look at this shall we. You're absolutely right. There are many, many people who have no faith in God, yet do good things everyday. No question about that. Where do they get this moral compass? They just have it. Its just right. They avoid bad behaviors for the same reason. They're just wrong. There are some things that, quite simply, are right, and others, that are, obviously, wrong, and they, despite a complete lack of faith, know the difference. Whats more, many of these things are, basically, instinctual. You don't really have to teach anyone that to kill, for example, is wrong. Everyone deemed sane just understands that. In a court of law, if someone who has done something heinously bad, but, is determined to not have known what they were doing was wrong, they are deemed INSANE. Are you following me. The point is rational, sane, people are able to determine universally accepted rights and wrongs with or without spiritual faith or any religious affiliation. How? You see, i believe it is instlled in us devinely. This moral imperative is, IMO, solid philosophical evidence for the existence of God. So, when people argue that belief in God is illogical because one cannot SEE God, i have to beg to differ. You see, When i see people with absolutely no faith in God practicing moral behavior, just because it is right, I DO see God.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. You are assuming people have always had that distinction which is incorrect. In-fact instinct tells us to protect ourselves and ourselves alone. If the threat against us is from another human being it is our very instinct to kill them or otherwise render them void to our personal goals. In exactly the same way animals fight each other. It is our instinct to kill or maim the guy that is moving in on our woman or a woman we think is ours. There is no built-in right or wrong mechanism, it's something we've developed through social evolution. No more than 100 years ago people would spit in each others faces and urinate on their feet simply because they disagreed. Go back 3000 years and it's a lot different.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
God doesn't exist. At least not as an entity. As a concept he most certainly exists.
I know another concept that exists: being facetious.
Faith is extremely limited, though. There is no room for advancements and new findings. It is what it is and you have to accept it blindly, without question. I have a problem with living my life in hopes of some all mighty god clearing up all my questions for me in the after life. I want to live now and follow my senses and my own consciousness, free to experience life with out a set of rules that I don't fully understand the need for.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm all for accepting that kindness goes a long a way, as does local charity. I'm all for doing the right thing. I'm all for standing up for myself, though, when someone tries to do me wrong. I'm all for trying to save this planet we're on, and the people currently clinging to it.
Can't it be that easy????
Both are faulty but science changes it's faults and it's constantly improving whereas religion doen't correct itself, advance or evolve. It is what it is...no questions or new ways of living/believing are accepted. One learns and one stays stuck in the same thought.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It seems like you have the same 'hang ups' I do when it pertains to most organized religions. There are tenets that are very hard to swallow, at least for me. I was once told that looking for spirituality or God through science and logic was wrong, that such a journey required faith, a concept I've always had a hard time with. So, how does one suddenly take a leap of faith? And then I came to realize faith is somewhat a part of science, esp physics. The inverse-square law of electrical force has been tested many times in numerous ways and it always holds. Yet we can never be absolutely certain that it applies unfailingly, but on the basis of induction, we can conclude only that it is very probable that the law will hold the next time it is tested, so I have faith that the inverse square law of electrical force will hold once again.
So then maybe my problem wasn't with faith so much, since I chose to put my faith into experiments I can replicate numerous times in a lab or faith that the sun will rise, since it has risen every time in my experience. Putting faith in something so esoteric, like a higher power is hard, esp when you have scriptures that you disagree with or don't understand or perhaps just find innately wrong.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I have read the Bible and I've found many problems with it. Many problems. I have read Buddha's writings and I liked them but I found problems with those too. I have read other writings on religion and I've never been able to pigeon-hole myself into any one religion on this earth. To this day, I'm an agnostic.
I have no answers. I just have faith that when it all comes down to it, being kind and understanding is the best way to be. Accepting differences is the best way to go. Watching the scientists learn what they learn will help us all grow, but holding onto the good lessons that seem outdated can't hurt any of us either.
That's what I believe.
EDIT: I also believe that when any given religion tries to push itself onto other peoples of other faiths.....or no faith.......only hell breaks loose. So IMHO it ain't worth the war.
I'm cool with a person believing whatever they want as long their beliefs aren't used to condemn or discriminate against people with differing views....especially when we can't prove any of these beliefs to be true. I'm sharing my reasonings as to why I choose not to believe but I don't want to push anyone into believing as I do, not do I want laws condemning believers based on my disbelief. I'm just putting my questions out here to discuss. I say let everyone live as they see fit as long as it's not at the expense of someone else's life or choosen path.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I just haven't came to the conclusion as to if god exists or not. All I can do is keep asking the questions I have, and express my doubts until I find something that either makes me want to believe or supports my current leanings. I'm always open to discussion of these things or i wouldn't come here. I have hard time with the 'imperfect beings theory' who can't fully understand god and his power. It gives the illusion that we are born to fail and they our species will/can not evolve into a more perfect one. People see themselves as imperfect servants of god, so they pray for forgivesness instead of actually fixing these problems that plague humanity. Righteousness is a problem to me. Questioning him is blasphemy and sometimes considered a weak faith or a lost path. You didn't get lost, you are only making your own path instead following one that already made for you. Why would god give you a wonderful brain and then not expect you to use it!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You raise some interesting points. Personally, I wasn't raised with organize religion, so I might not have some of the 'scars' others do when it comes to the subject. Up until about 6 years ago, I would have called myself an atheist. I came to my belief that there is something more out there through non-traditional ways, mainly philosophical discussions and reading, what I know about science, etc (although I haven't tackled any traditional bibical text yet). I definitely see your point about how people will use it to 'excuse' behavior and shrug off responsibility. I believe there is more than one path to God and I know the major religions do not agree with this. This is one of my biggest frustrations with religion in general.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The big man called the press today, he said
"There's something that I'd like to confess today,
get something off of my chest today,
and get us all out of a mess today.
He said, "I don't know how I ever got here, I was thinking last night,
drunk on beer, I've murdered people, I've played on your fear, dumb
and vain, it seemed so clear." Put a gun in his mouth, the metal tasted,
he mumbled, "I'm sorry for your time I've wasted."
The flag behind him, scarlet basted,
the ambulance screamed and the news men chased it.
WooThere is a God, there is a God.
Don't doubt it, you got to shout it, there is a God.
Into the hallways reporters spill, multi-national corporation
boardroom-filled, apologizing for the people they killed, to make
amends schools they'd build. And they burned their suits and made a vow,
to only be working on hospitals now, and the NRA, as if on cue,
killed themselves, it was the least they could do.
Headlines bulge with mass suicide,
tormentors whose last acts of pride,
went to the mirror and when the image subsides,
what they beheld they could not abide.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Tough questions, Abook and I don't have any answers for you. Of course, that doesn't mean I won't try to seek the answers. Another tough one for me personally is the idea that there is only one correct path to God, so let's hope we all choice wisely, eh. I can not accept the idea that a good person of a different faith will not be accepted or doomed to an eternity hell fire. It gets complicated, but I try not to let those things impede my personal relationship with God and what I feel in my heart.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Yes, your question is a good one. It means god is a vengeful god and that, of course, is an imperfection. I'm so glad there are people like you who aren't afraid to raise these questions and still hold on to their own personal beliefs while intertwining them with logical thinking. I've enjoyed discussing these questions with you, greatly and appreciate it so much.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If you believe in God... do you do good things because you believe God is watching over everything you do? What about the person that does not believe in God and does good things? Who is more sincerely doing good... the person who believes he is being watched or the one that does good because he believes doing good is just the right thing to do?
Hail, Hail!!!
To quote Joey Tribiane, there is no selfless good deed.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
That is absurd I must say and I mean so respectfully. Faith is only as limited as the person allows. It is infinite with possibilities.
to imply that men are completely unneeded and unimportant was not my intention. and you're right, it is a tad ridiculous to even suggest that they are.
oh yes i did create something. i created four truly wonderful individuals. for sure they are also the creation of their father. and what we created them with was handed down to us through our forebears. but i also know that without me these beautiful people would not have made it to stand barefoot on this earth.
but you know cornnifer, any fool can make and give birth to a child. the real accomplishment comes in the raising.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Thanks, Abook! I've enjoyed discussing this topic with you as well! You always bring a fresh prespective to the table and I always appreciate & enjoy your opinions and ideas.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
What about 'em? i'm glad you asked. Let's take a look at this shall we. You're absolutely right. There are many, many people who have no faith in God, yet do good things everyday. No question about that. Where do they get this moral compass? They just have it. Its just right. They avoid bad behaviors for the same reason. They're just wrong. There are some things that, quite simply, are right, and others, that are, obviously, wrong, and they, despite a complete lack of faith, know the difference. Whats more, many of these things are, basically, instinctual. You don't really have to teach anyone that to kill, for example, is wrong. Everyone deemed sane just understands that. In a court of law, if someone who has done something heinously bad, but, is determined to not have known what they were doing was wrong, they are deemed INSANE. Are you following me. The point is rational, sane, people are able to determine universally accepted rights and wrongs with or without spiritual faith or any religious affiliation. How? You see, i believe it is instlled in us devinely. This moral imperative is, IMO, solid philosophical evidence for the existence of God. So, when people argue that belief in God is illogical because one cannot SEE God, i have to beg to differ. You see, When i see people with absolutely no faith in God practicing moral behavior, just because it is right, I DO see God.
Very interesting perspective, cornnifer.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Imagine what it would be like to be in the other guys position.
On some subjects it is very hard for some people to even let themselves think like that.
You see it as God, I see it as instincts instilled in humans to ensure the survival of our species. If we ignore or lose these instincts we will, in the end, become extinct.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Instincts instilled in humans how? How does one randomly evolve a moral compass? Besides, it seems to me that, for survival, the natural instinct would be to look out foe ourselves first. To do what was needed to ensure MY survival. And for everyone else to do the same. If we're talking about logic here, i think you missed on this one.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. You are assuming people have always had that distinction which is incorrect. In-fact instinct tells us to protect ourselves and ourselves alone. If the threat against us is from another human being it is our very instinct to kill them or otherwise render them void to our personal goals. In exactly the same way animals fight each other. It is our instinct to kill or maim the guy that is moving in on our woman or a woman we think is ours. There is no built-in right or wrong mechanism, it's something we've developed through social evolution. No more than 100 years ago people would spit in each others faces and urinate on their feet simply because they disagreed. Go back 3000 years and it's a lot different.