I've asked that same question so many times and have never gotten a clear response.
...
He's a good friend and I love him... except for the, I'm damned and am going to Hell part. I think he got this logic thing from his preacher or whatever because he knows I write computer programs and shell scripts and operates along logical lines. I think he thought it would pin me into believeing.
And... he has told me that I am Christian... but, just don't know it. He doesn't think that someone that questions religion or God or is an atheist can be caring and kind and giving... like i can sometimes be accused of. He tells me it's the light of Jesus in me that does these things and refuses to listen to my response of, 'Because that's what humans are supposed to be'. I'm never blaming Jesus for anything i do or don't do... it's all on me... good, bad or indifferent.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Here is a logical explanation about belief in God that was presented to me by a Born Again Christian... a good friend who really, really wants to save me (from something I don't need saving from):
--God either exists, or He does not exist.
--You either believe in God, or you do no believe in Him.
If you DO NOT Believe in God and God DOES exist...
then you are in big trouble and go to Hell. Score, -1
If you DO NOT Believe in God and God DOES NOT exist...
then you are right... big deal. It's a wash, score +0
Total points = -1
OR
If you DO Believe in God and God Does exist...
then you are right and are rewarded with Heaven. Score, +1
If you DO Believe in God and God DOES NOT exist...
but, maybe the belief in God has helped you through some tough times. Score, +1/2
Total points = +1 1/2
-1 is less than +1.5...
Therefore it is better, logically, to believe in God.
...
He couldn't answer my response that using that logic, your belief in God is a 'Just in case' or 'Covering your ass' reason to believe... and God, all seeing and all knowing, would know this was your reason. Would He be okay with this? And what kind of half-ass God would He be if He did?
That sounds like one of satans tricks.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm not sure what this Anselm guy is getting at, maybe you can break it down. I was kind of turned off in the first few lines when he redefines "understanding" as "philosophical belief"
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
...
He's a good friend and I love him... except for the, I'm damned and am going to Hell part. I think he got this logic thing from his preacher or whatever because he knows I write computer programs and shell scripts and operates along logical lines. I think he thought it would pin me into believeing.
And... he has told me that I am Christian... but, just don't know it. He doesn't think that someone that questions religion or God or is an atheist can be caring and kind and giving... like i can sometimes be accused of. He tells me it's the light of Jesus in me that does these things and refuses to listen to my response of, 'Because that's what humans are supposed to be'. I'm never blaming Jesus for anything i do or don't do... it's all on me... good, bad or indifferent.
My best friend is just like that and say a lot of stuff along the lines of your friend. But she has always followed her heart and her senses when it comes to living her life...in other words, she sins and sins quite often. I think that most believers still know inside logically that it doesn't make sense to live life according to set of rules given to us by an almighty god who wants to punish us for using these wonderful senses he has given us. That's to me is why so much sin is commited. One doesn't give enough credit to the wisdom they hold within their own body. They follow it but then treat it as a mistake, even when there is nothing to be sorry for. I only hate the self loathing, constant guilt and need to get down on ones knees, they weigh themselves down with for simply living ones life.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
My best friend is just like that and say a lot of stuff along the lines of your friend. But she has always followed her heart and her senses when it comes to living her life...in other words, she sins and sins quite often. I think that most believers still know inside logically that it doesn't make sense to live life according to set of rules given to us by an almighty god who wants to punish us for using these wonderful senses he has given us. That's to me is why so much sin is commited. One doesn't give enough credit to the wisdom they hold within their own body. They follow it but then treat it as a mistake, even when there is nothing to be sorry for. I only hate the self loathing, constant guilt and need to get down on ones knees, they weigh themselves down with for simply living ones life.
Im not really religious, and I am obviously not referring to your friend here since I dont know her. But, to argue against your constant guilt argument for a minute. I think if you speak to a lot of religious people (not all obviously) they also find comfort in knowing that there mistakes and sins can be forgiven and their religion more or less lets them know that they arent perfect and sins or mistakes in life will be made. So, obviously it is a person by person feeling on whether there religion makes them feel guilty, or comforted in a sense.
And to the original point of the thread. Just because you cant prove something doesnt exist, doesnt mean it doesnt exist. We are discovering things about humanity, the earth, the universe etc on a daily basis, and will be doing that through human existence. And I would venture to guess that we will never discover everything there is to know, and somethings that we havent proven exist, probably do exist. If there is a God, whats to say it is something that is just beyond human capabilty to actually prove? Now, I will say, I have a problem with organized religion, which goes back to your point. I do find it difficult to have that kind of faith in something based on books written by humans, since they had even less knowledge of the world back then than we do now, if that makes sense.
Im not really religious, and I am obviously not referring to your friend here since I dont know her. But, to argue against your constant guilt argument for a minute. I think if you speak to a lot of religious people (not all obviously) they also find comfort in knowing that there mistakes and sins can be forgiven and their religion more or less lets them know that they arent perfect and sins or mistakes in life will be made. So, obviously it is a person by person feeling on whether there religion makes them feel guilty, or comforted in a sense.
But doesn't doing the same kind of sinning over and over again and then just asking for forgiveness seem a little insincere? You aren't sorry if you keep doing it. You're only sorry that what you wish to do is against god's wishes not that you believe it is truly wrong. Conscience usually guides people against stuff that is wrong with or without god in their life. Wouldn't god see right through this act? And why have the rules if you know they are going to be broken and forgiven and that we can't possibly follow them all because of our imperfections? Aren't people just going to do what they want to anyway? It seems more like a basis for laws and a justication for punishment here on earth, to me.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Cats and Dogs don't likely preach to each other about what Humans expect of them and why.
i'm guessing they also don't pop off at the fucking mouth on a message board pretending to be deep thinkers when they really don't know shit.
Man this shit is old. Some of you people really need a new shtick. This one is tired and you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Just flapping your metaphorical lips.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
But doesn't doing the same kind of sinning over and over again and then just asking for forgiveness seem a little insincere? You aren't sorry if you keep doing it. You're only sorry that what you wish to do is against god's wishes not that you believe it is truly wrong. Conscience usually guides people against stuff that is wrong with or without god in their life. Wouldn't god see right through this act? And why have the rules if you know they are going to be broken and forgiven and that we can't possibly follow them all because of our imperfections? Aren't people just going to do what they want to anyway? It seems more like a basis for laws and a justication for punishment here on earth, to me.
Well that is tough to argue against, and it is kind of difficult for me to do so since I am not really religious, so its hard for me to argue that side. But, the Bible, and probably most religions, teach you that you arent perfect, and you are going to sin and make mistakes. I dont think it necessarily makes it insincere, but more that you recognize your weakness and imperfections. Now, again, it is more of a personal thing. Lots of people who claim to be religious are merely giving lipservice to it, and for those people then I think you can make the claim it is insincere. But the people who really do try to live a "righteous" life I think it is more of a recognizing your faults or mistakes and trying to make them better and using your faith to help better yourself. Just my take on it, but I do think its different to different people.
Well that is tough to argue against, and it is kind of difficult for me to do so since I am not really religious, so its hard for me to argue that side. But, the Bible, and probably most religions, teach you that you arent perfect, and you are going to sin and make mistakes. I dont think it necessarily makes it insincere, but more that you recognize your weakness and imperfections. Now, again, it is more of a personal thing. Lots of people who claim to be religious are merely giving lipservice to it, and for those people then I think you can make the claim it is insincere. But the people who really do try to live a "righteous" life I think it is more of a recognizing your faults or mistakes and trying to make them better and using your faith to help better yourself. Just my take on it, but I do think its different to different people.
I can see where you are coming from. I do think there is a certain aspect of religious people who do try to live life as righteous as they can. But they seem so rare to me. Still seems like constant self loathing and a strong need for some sort of approval to me, though. Like you're just never going to be good enough no matter what you do.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i'm guessing they also don't pop off at the fucking mouth on a message board pretending to be deep thinkers when they really don't know shit.
Man this shit is old. Some of you people really need a new shtick. This one is tired and you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Just flapping your metaphorical lips.
And the air raid sirens blare
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
With the god thing, no logic is needed. There is a leap of faith here. I find it interesting that some of you seem to link the bible w/god. The bible to me is just literature cobbled together over time and has been used to subjugate women, especially, forever.
I was raised Catholic. Now I have no religion. I think there is an order to things. I look at nature for that. I don't believe that god has human form and a nice white beard. I think the idea of Jesus is really neat. Jesus was all about love and he was a rebel. Unfortunately, religion is not about love. What man has done in God's name stinks.
The Catholic way out of the god is perfect so why is man not perfect as god couldn't make anything imperfect: FREEWILL baby. And don't forget original sin. Gets them out of a lot of holes.
With the god thing, no logic is needed. There is a leap of faith here. I find it interesting that some of you seem to link the bible w/god. The bible to me is just literature cobbled together over time and has been used to subjugate women, especially, forever.
I was raised Catholic. Now I have no religion. I think there is an order to things. I look at nature for that. I don't believe that god has human form and a nice white beard. I think the idea of Jesus is really neat. Jesus was all about love and he was a rebel. Unfortunately, religion is not about love. What man has done in God's name stinks.
The Catholic way out of the god is perfect so why is man not perfect as god couldn't make anything imperfect: FREEWILL baby. And don't forget original sin. Gets them out of a lot of holes.
That freewill arguement doesn't work for me. Freewill is also a creation of god, if everything is created by god and freewill is imperfect.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I can see where you are coming from. I do think there is a certain aspect of religious people who do try to live life as righteous as they can. But they seem so rare to me. Still seems like constant self loathing and a strong need for some sort of approval to me, though. Like you're just never going to be good enough no matter what you do.
Well, my mother and grandparents are really religous, but also rational people, not nutty religious. And I also went to a Baptist college so I ran into the type of people you are referring to, but I would say most are not self loathing, just my experience. I actually ran into more people who seemed to think they were better than everybody because of their religion, more than those that looked down on themselves. But, Im sure it just depends on the person.
Through some very intense thought I came to the realization that only nothing is perfect. Nothingness is void of all desires and imperfections, it is, perfect. The simple fact of existance is an imperfection, for something to exist it must have a purpose, be it to eat, sleep, etc.. or monitor over it's creations. All obligations are a sign of imperfection. However, not existing holds no duties and/or obligations, no vices and no imperfections.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That freewill arguement doesn't work for me. Freewill is also a creation of god, if everything is created by god and freewill is imperfect.
Freewill is indeed a reality though. So, Jummy Neutron, why don't you tell me how it developed. Happenstance? Accident? Coincidence? Because, you see, thats simply not logic. Thats stubborn self righteousness.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Again, we are mistaking religion for god. My in-laws think they have a space in heaven because they're Presbyterian. No blacks attend their church; happenstance? I don't think so.
I know. I don't know why some get so worked up over another's perspective of life. Live yours and be happy while I'm living mine apart from yours and being happy, as well. We can discuss these things and it can be very interesting. But getting upset about a different view seems pointless.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Freewill is indeed a reality though. So, Jummy Neutron, why don't you tell me how it developed. Happenstance? Accident? Coincidence? Because, you see, thats simply not logic. Thats stubborn self righteousness.
So things don't happen by random? I guess 9-11 was an inside job then.
If we could not have been created by random then you have no chance at winning the lottery, sorry.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I know. I don't know why some get so worked up over another's perspective of life. Live yours and be happy while I'm living mine apart from yours and being happy, as well. We can discuss these things and it can be very interesting. But getting upset about a different view seems pointless.
I think that has to do a bit with Bush and his pandering to religion. I never remember religion being such a controversial topic until Bush started working for votes from them, and then all the nutty religious people came out of the woodwork. Or maybe I just wasnt paying attention before that.
So things don't happen by random? I guess 9-11 was an inside job then.
If we could not have been created by random then you have no chance at winning the lottery, sorry.
i'm not "dropping bombs" here, but, are you serious with this? Because this is absolutely absurd. Are you suggesting 9-11 was a random tragedy? No, some sick fuckers used free will to fly a couple planes into a couple of buildings. For whatever reason thwy CHOSE to do it. You make absolutely no sense.
And, i'm not even touching that lottery crap. Its a game of chance, designeed to be won against large odds. Well i guess i did touch it.
BTW, your mathematical odds at winning the lottery are far, far greater than a human being or the universe coming about coincidentally. hundreds of thousands of times greater, in fact. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by saying this silly stuff.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
I think that has to do a bit with Bush and his pandering to religion. I never remember religion being such a controversial topic until Bush started working for votes from them, and then all the nutty religious people came out of the woodwork. Or maybe I just wasnt paying attention before that.
I just always thought some were kinda nuts because of the things I kept being told as child that were supposed to be wrong but I couldn't see a reason why it should be wrong. We all know the gay thing. Then I was told white people can't marry black people, it says so in bible!? (does it really say that?) And the crap about women being like servants of men...ugh!! The way they never seemed to question these things...they were there in the bible and that is enough for them, no questions asked. And they always get real preachy when talking about these things, they demand everyone live by these beliefs or you are against god! So what if I was against god, it has nothing to do with you, buddy. If I go to hell you can even point down and laugh at me. I won't hold it against ya.
I respect the ones who have their beliefs and let me have my own without looking down or me or judging me.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I know. I don't know why some get so worked up over another's perspective of life. Live yours and be happy while I'm living mine apart from yours and being happy, as well. We can discuss these things and it can be very interesting. But getting upset about a different view seems pointless.
Well I am not getting worked up.
But it stands to reason that since we have absolutely no evidence physically or logically to the support the existance of our so-called creator that any attempt and integrating it into our societies should be futile. However, it is so deeply entwined with our history that so many of us believe it and disallow said logic. To this day we hear about ID/Creationism debates for school curriculum. It is still the motto of the USA "in God we trust" it is still written in the Canadian Charter of Human Rights "This is god's law".
My supervisor at work expressed to me that people who live in Canada should all follow the word of God. Her reasoning is that this country was founded by believers in god so therefore it should remain a sanctuary for people alike.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
But it stands to reason that since we have absolutely no evidence physically or logically to the support the existance of our so-called creator that any attempt and integrating it into our societies should be futile. However, it is so deeply entwined with our history that so many of us believe it and disallow said logic. To this day we hear about ID/Creationism debates for school curriculum. It is still the motto of the USA "in God we trust" it is still written in the Canadian Charter of Human Rights "This is god's law".
My supervisor at work expressed to me that people who live in Canada should all follow the word of God. Her reasoning is that this country was founded by believers in god so therefore it should remain a sanctuary for people alike.
I hate when people say that stuff, too. This country was founded by slave owners...what's your point?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I just always thought some were kinda nuts because of the things I kept being told as child that were supposed to be wrong but I couldn't see a reason why it should be wrong. We all know the gay thing. Then I was told white people can't marry black people, it says so in bible!? (does it really say that?) And the crap about women being like servants of men...ugh!! The way they never seemed to question these things...they were there in the bible and that is enough for them, no questions asked. And they always get real preachy when talking about these things, they demand everyone live by these beliefs or you are against god! So what if I was against god, it has nothing to do with you, buddy. If I go to hell you can even point down and laugh at me. I won't hold it against ya.
I respect the ones who have their beliefs and let me have my own without looking down or me or judging me.
Well I dont disagree with most of that. But honestly, and maybe I just didnt pay attention, but before Bush, I dont remember religion having the public life that it does now. It certainly had a life on an individual level, but other than the Robertson's and Falwells of the world, I dont remember it having the public life it now has. And what I mean by that, I dont ever remember intelligent design being pushed to be taught in schools, and things of that nature. Again, maybe I just didnt pay attention, but I dont remember things, that are coming from an obviously religious perspective, being pushed on the public to the degree as they are now.
I'm not sure what this Anselm guy is getting at, maybe you can break it down. I was kind of turned off in the first few lines when he redefines "understanding" as "philosophical belief"
Anselm believed that through reason alone you could come to a belief in God. In fact, he is credited with one of the most famous arguments for the existence of God, the ontological argument. It is presented in the article...
Anselm believed that through reason alone you could come to a belief in God. In fact, he is credited with one of the most famous arguments for the existence of God, the ontological argument. It is presented in the article...
Maybe someone could post it, there is no deffinate link to that section of the article and the rest of it seems to twist reality to prepare the mind for something absurd.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
He's a good friend and I love him... except for the, I'm damned and am going to Hell part. I think he got this logic thing from his preacher or whatever because he knows I write computer programs and shell scripts and operates along logical lines. I think he thought it would pin me into believeing.
And... he has told me that I am Christian... but, just don't know it. He doesn't think that someone that questions religion or God or is an atheist can be caring and kind and giving... like i can sometimes be accused of. He tells me it's the light of Jesus in me that does these things and refuses to listen to my response of, 'Because that's what humans are supposed to be'. I'm never blaming Jesus for anything i do or don't do... it's all on me... good, bad or indifferent.
Hail, Hail!!!
That sounds like one of satans tricks.
I'm not sure what this Anselm guy is getting at, maybe you can break it down. I was kind of turned off in the first few lines when he redefines "understanding" as "philosophical belief"
My best friend is just like that and say a lot of stuff along the lines of your friend. But she has always followed her heart and her senses when it comes to living her life...in other words, she sins and sins quite often. I think that most believers still know inside logically that it doesn't make sense to live life according to set of rules given to us by an almighty god who wants to punish us for using these wonderful senses he has given us. That's to me is why so much sin is commited. One doesn't give enough credit to the wisdom they hold within their own body. They follow it but then treat it as a mistake, even when there is nothing to be sorry for. I only hate the self loathing, constant guilt and need to get down on ones knees, they weigh themselves down with for simply living ones life.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Im not really religious, and I am obviously not referring to your friend here since I dont know her. But, to argue against your constant guilt argument for a minute. I think if you speak to a lot of religious people (not all obviously) they also find comfort in knowing that there mistakes and sins can be forgiven and their religion more or less lets them know that they arent perfect and sins or mistakes in life will be made. So, obviously it is a person by person feeling on whether there religion makes them feel guilty, or comforted in a sense.
And to the original point of the thread. Just because you cant prove something doesnt exist, doesnt mean it doesnt exist. We are discovering things about humanity, the earth, the universe etc on a daily basis, and will be doing that through human existence. And I would venture to guess that we will never discover everything there is to know, and somethings that we havent proven exist, probably do exist. If there is a God, whats to say it is something that is just beyond human capabilty to actually prove? Now, I will say, I have a problem with organized religion, which goes back to your point. I do find it difficult to have that kind of faith in something based on books written by humans, since they had even less knowledge of the world back then than we do now, if that makes sense.
I hate that.
It is a pretty common characterization in the media etc. Like people who don't believe in god are all evil by default.
I worry more about people who have to be told what is right and wrong then those who use common sense to figure it out.
http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
But doesn't doing the same kind of sinning over and over again and then just asking for forgiveness seem a little insincere? You aren't sorry if you keep doing it. You're only sorry that what you wish to do is against god's wishes not that you believe it is truly wrong. Conscience usually guides people against stuff that is wrong with or without god in their life. Wouldn't god see right through this act? And why have the rules if you know they are going to be broken and forgiven and that we can't possibly follow them all because of our imperfections? Aren't people just going to do what they want to anyway? It seems more like a basis for laws and a justication for punishment here on earth, to me.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i'm guessing they also don't pop off at the fucking mouth on a message board pretending to be deep thinkers when they really don't know shit.
Man this shit is old. Some of you people really need a new shtick. This one is tired and you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Just flapping your metaphorical lips.
Well that is tough to argue against, and it is kind of difficult for me to do so since I am not really religious, so its hard for me to argue that side. But, the Bible, and probably most religions, teach you that you arent perfect, and you are going to sin and make mistakes. I dont think it necessarily makes it insincere, but more that you recognize your weakness and imperfections. Now, again, it is more of a personal thing. Lots of people who claim to be religious are merely giving lipservice to it, and for those people then I think you can make the claim it is insincere. But the people who really do try to live a "righteous" life I think it is more of a recognizing your faults or mistakes and trying to make them better and using your faith to help better yourself. Just my take on it, but I do think its different to different people.
I can see where you are coming from. I do think there is a certain aspect of religious people who do try to live life as righteous as they can. But they seem so rare to me. Still seems like constant self loathing and a strong need for some sort of approval to me, though. Like you're just never going to be good enough no matter what you do.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And the air raid sirens blare
I was raised Catholic. Now I have no religion. I think there is an order to things. I look at nature for that. I don't believe that god has human form and a nice white beard. I think the idea of Jesus is really neat. Jesus was all about love and he was a rebel. Unfortunately, religion is not about love. What man has done in God's name stinks.
The Catholic way out of the god is perfect so why is man not perfect as god couldn't make anything imperfect: FREEWILL baby. And don't forget original sin. Gets them out of a lot of holes.
That freewill arguement doesn't work for me. Freewill is also a creation of god, if everything is created by god and freewill is imperfect.
Well, my mother and grandparents are really religous, but also rational people, not nutty religious. And I also went to a Baptist college so I ran into the type of people you are referring to, but I would say most are not self loathing, just my experience. I actually ran into more people who seemed to think they were better than everybody because of their religion, more than those that looked down on themselves. But, Im sure it just depends on the person.
Seriously, isn't it a choice?
Freewill is indeed a reality though. So, Jummy Neutron, why don't you tell me how it developed. Happenstance? Accident? Coincidence? Because, you see, thats simply not logic. Thats stubborn self righteousness.
God isn't stupid.
I know. I don't know why some get so worked up over another's perspective of life. Live yours and be happy while I'm living mine apart from yours and being happy, as well. We can discuss these things and it can be very interesting. But getting upset about a different view seems pointless.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
So things don't happen by random? I guess 9-11 was an inside job then.
If we could not have been created by random then you have no chance at winning the lottery, sorry.
I think that has to do a bit with Bush and his pandering to religion. I never remember religion being such a controversial topic until Bush started working for votes from them, and then all the nutty religious people came out of the woodwork. Or maybe I just wasnt paying attention before that.
i'm not "dropping bombs" here, but, are you serious with this? Because this is absolutely absurd. Are you suggesting 9-11 was a random tragedy? No, some sick fuckers used free will to fly a couple planes into a couple of buildings. For whatever reason thwy CHOSE to do it. You make absolutely no sense.
And, i'm not even touching that lottery crap. Its a game of chance, designeed to be won against large odds. Well i guess i did touch it.
BTW, your mathematical odds at winning the lottery are far, far greater than a human being or the universe coming about coincidentally. hundreds of thousands of times greater, in fact. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by saying this silly stuff.
I just always thought some were kinda nuts because of the things I kept being told as child that were supposed to be wrong but I couldn't see a reason why it should be wrong. We all know the gay thing. Then I was told white people can't marry black people, it says so in bible!? (does it really say that?) And the crap about women being like servants of men...ugh!! The way they never seemed to question these things...they were there in the bible and that is enough for them, no questions asked. And they always get real preachy when talking about these things, they demand everyone live by these beliefs or you are against god! So what if I was against god, it has nothing to do with you, buddy. If I go to hell you can even point down and laugh at me. I won't hold it against ya.
I respect the ones who have their beliefs and let me have my own without looking down or me or judging me.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well I am not getting worked up.
But it stands to reason that since we have absolutely no evidence physically or logically to the support the existance of our so-called creator that any attempt and integrating it into our societies should be futile. However, it is so deeply entwined with our history that so many of us believe it and disallow said logic. To this day we hear about ID/Creationism debates for school curriculum. It is still the motto of the USA "in God we trust" it is still written in the Canadian Charter of Human Rights "This is god's law".
My supervisor at work expressed to me that people who live in Canada should all follow the word of God. Her reasoning is that this country was founded by believers in god so therefore it should remain a sanctuary for people alike.
I hate when people say that stuff, too. This country was founded by slave owners...what's your point?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well I dont disagree with most of that. But honestly, and maybe I just didnt pay attention, but before Bush, I dont remember religion having the public life that it does now. It certainly had a life on an individual level, but other than the Robertson's and Falwells of the world, I dont remember it having the public life it now has. And what I mean by that, I dont ever remember intelligent design being pushed to be taught in schools, and things of that nature. Again, maybe I just didnt pay attention, but I dont remember things, that are coming from an obviously religious perspective, being pushed on the public to the degree as they are now.
Anselm believed that through reason alone you could come to a belief in God. In fact, he is credited with one of the most famous arguments for the existence of God, the ontological argument. It is presented in the article...
Maybe someone could post it, there is no deffinate link to that section of the article and the rest of it seems to twist reality to prepare the mind for something absurd.