When we have the capability to level the entire city of Baghdad, we instead used precision laser-guided bombs to destroy specific buildings and targets. To me, that is trying our best.
Absolutely not, trying your best would be sending in spies and snipers or only fighting on the ground or how about not starting a war at ALL? Did I mention 5000lb BOMBS??????? In CITIES??? Is that not slightly excessive? I'm sure they come in smaller sizes than that
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
You may need to break this down a little simpler for me, and I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm just not understanding the concept. Let me tell you a few things I believe.
I beleive that in the year 2007, killing other humans is necessary to keep the world order. I believe that killing is wrong, but it is necessary. So I think some killing though "wrong" is justified.
:eek: are you serious? And what world order are you talking about? I thought the world's more unstable than ever... how is killing a few people gonna make it better... dialogue is the ONLY way to stamp out violence.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
That's right. My response was: 'No. Because your Government are immoral, greedy liars and murderers, and anyone who respects the criminal American Government is stupid.'
Was that worth a ban? Maybe a bit of a generalization, but a ban seemed a bit harsh to me.
You may need to break this down a little simpler for me, and I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm just not understanding the concept. Let me tell you a few things I believe.
I beleive that in the year 2007, killing other humans is necessary to keep the world order. I believe that killing is wrong, but it is necessary. So I think some killing though "wrong" is justified.
I appreciate your honesty and sincerity, NCfan.
I agree that at this point killing is "necessary", meaning it IS going to happen on a grandscale, because individuals do not understand. Again, it is a basic psychological principle that when we overpower someone, we put ourselves into a cycle that repeats and comes back to us. Therefore your strategies of overpowering and dominating make sense on one level--logically and strategically--, and yet at BASE they are fueling the fire, escalating the problems, precipitating backlashes for years to come. Backlashes which will be blamed on those who act them out. These problems are not 50/50 in accountability ratio. Your country is 100% responsible for your actions including the reverberations that will come back to you, and the "bad guys" are 100% responsible for their own and the reverberations that will return to them.
Until the average person figures this out, and new leaders and ACTUAL problem solving is demanded, YES, mass killing will result. The problem is everyone is accountable for their lack of problem solving. We are accountable for the killing we support in our ignorance. That's life at this time, I guess.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
but there was alot of truth to it. I like Brynzie's posts...very direct..and doesnt' pull punches...I don't agree with some of it...but wish more people would speak their mind like this....maybe some folks in the US would get their heads out.
but there was alot of truth to it. I like Brynzie's posts...very direct..and doesnt' pull punches...I don't agree with some of it...but wish more people would speak their mind like this....maybe some folks in the US would get their heads out.
I agree there is major truth to what Byrnzie said in the post that got him banned, and in much of what he says in general. If only people would be willing to widen their perspective and be open to actually listen to and hear him.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I agree there is major truth to what Byrnzie said in the post that got him banned, and in much of what he says in general. If only people would be willing to widen their perspective and be open to actually listen to and hear him.
many people have the cabability to widen their perspectives.....let alone want to. We justify everything...we are scared so we go with someone we feel will protect us..if we don't want to pay more taxes we justify an unjust war.... (0:
I do love this board and its format...it does challenge me..and hopefully others. Great means for the population to communicate without government/corporate filters. Thanks Pearl Jam and those that make this possible.
I agree there is major truth to what Byrnzie said in the post that got him banned, and in much of what he says in general. If only people would be willing to widen their perspective and be open to actually listen to and hear him.
Here is a post from Byrnzie
"No. Because your Government are immoral, greedy liars and murderers, and anyone who respects the criminal American Government is stupid."
That has to be one of the worst post I've ever read on this board. My perspective is wide open, yet I hold on to certain values. But these values do not limit me from steping out and examining other ideas. None-the-less, this post from Byrnzie is rediculous and I can't believe anybody would defend it.
"No. Because your Government are immoral, greedy liars and murderers, and anyone who respects the criminal American Government is stupid."
Immoral- we're sending Billions to Iraq..yet people are starving in Africa oh and in the US. New Orleans is still a mess, so some could see our goverment as being immoral.
Greedy liars-many would argue, and I tend to agree, that the reason we're in Iraq is solely for the oil...Bush even admitted that in his last speach.
Murderers- there are many people in the world that feel they're loved ones where murdered by the American government. ( I still feel there's no malice, I may be using a coping mechanism for myself) but I didn't have my family wiped out by a misguided bomb.
People supporting are stupid- well I whole heartedly agree as does 98% if the worlds population...so this isn't a stretch. One of Cheney's talking points this weekend for continuing the battle is "so Alqaida(sp?) can't claim victory in Iraq...how shallow and misguided is that...and a good portion of the American people will justify continued bloodshed because they don't want to be losers....jokes on them.
People supporting are stupid- well I whole heartedly agree as does 98% if the worlds population...so this isn't a stretch. One of Cheney's talking points this weekend for continuing the battle is "so Alqaida(sp?) can't claim victory in Iraq...how shallow and misguided is that...and a good portion of the American people will justify continued bloodshed because they don't want to be losers....jokes on them.
Peace
whats stupid is making up statistics. 98% huh. why is cheney's comment shallow and misguided? would you like to see el queda claim victory in Iraq, maybe set up some training camps? blow themselves in the middle of a crowded market full of innocent iraqi civillians? wait, who is misguided again?
whats stupid is making up statistics. 98% huh. why is cheney's comment shallow and misguided? would you like to see el queda claim victory in Iraq, maybe set up some training camps? blow themselves in the middle of a crowded market full of innocent iraqi civillians? wait, who is misguided again?
I pulled the 98% out of my arsch....but I'm thinking pretty accurate...+/- a few % points. As far as claiming victory....who cares what they think..we need to develop stategies based on results. But Cheney knows how to push our Patiotic American buttons, and continues to do so..and continues to make us look like fools...again supporting Brynzie's post.
I pulled the 98% out of my arsch....but I'm thinking pretty accurate...+/- a few % points. As far as claiming victory....who cares what they think..we need to develop stategies based on results. But Cheney knows how to push our Patiotic American buttons, and continues to do so..and continues to make us look like fools...again supporting Brynzie's post.
great job dodging all of my questions. why is cheney's comment (continuing the battle is "so el queda can't claim victory in Iraq..) shallow and misguided?
And I suppose our governments told us that Pinochet should never have been installed and needed to be held account for his actions, the dropping of the atomic bombs was wrong, along with the firestorms in Dresden, Hamburg and Tokyo that targeted civilians. Oh hang on...
...
What does this have to do with the effect of gamma rays on Man in The Mon marigolds?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
"No. Because your Government are immoral, greedy liars and murderers, and anyone who respects the criminal American Government is stupid."
That has to be one of the worst post I've ever read on this board. My perspective is wide open, yet I hold on to certain values. But these values do not limit me from steping out and examining other ideas. None-the-less, this post from Byrnzie is rediculous and I can't believe anybody would defend it.
The reason I defend that post, NCfan, is because I was very closely watching this thread as you and Byrnzie were posting on Friday. I specifically noticed Byrnzie's post in it's original form --before it was deleted and before Byrnzie was banned for the day, and before other people had time to really register what he said. In it's original form, it was a paragraph about 4 or so lines long. I thought the post was restrained, intelligent and insightful. And I specifically noticed it and remember it because I was impressed with what he said.
So then why did the U.S support him when he carried out these atrocities, and sell him weapons of mass destruction?
Ummmm cuz we're stupid.
Then Byrnzie responded by saying something about how No, the American people are NOT stupid. And he explained for a few sentences before he ended by saying "anyone who respects the criminal American Government is stupid". Granted, I personally would not have generalized that those who respect the criminal American government are stupid. And yet, I can still clearly hear his point: respecting criminals and criminal action/behaviour IS stupid, by many people's standards. He was banned for a day. The post was deleted, but the post in question stood out in my memory because he was defending the general American people, while holding those who support criminal government actions as the ones accountable, as is the case.
I agree there is major truth to what Byrnzie said in the post that got him banned, and in much of what he says in general. If only people would be willing to widen their perspective and be open to actually listen to and hear him.
His point went unheard on Friday. While you were saying this about him: "Whatever man, you're pathetic and deep down somewhere under all your layers of bullshit you know it", it sure didn't seem like you were hearing what he was saying.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
great job dodging all of my questions. why is cheney's comment (continuing the battle is "so el queda can't claim victory in Iraq..) shallow and misguided?
How about because fucking Al Qaeda had absolutely no prescence in Iraq before the war? So America must continue the battle to ensure that an organization that America introduced into the country doesn't "claim victory". If that isn't shallow and misguided, then what is?
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
I know there are a lot of liberal intelligent people who were against it from the get go but nowadays it seems there are a lot of people against it. This might seem like a good thing but i really dont think it is because they just dont like that its costing so much money and lives, they still dont see that it was an initial mistake. They still havent learned that other country's affairs are none of their business and that the rest of the world doesnt want their "help"(a.k.a. bomb the shit out of other countries). I mean unless people learn that exporting values for example democracy doesnt work then we are all condemned to watch history repeat itself over and over again.
1. There are a lot of conservative intelligent people who knew better as well.
2. The only reason why it seems like people are against the war now is because the international media say they are and they have polls and statistics they've picked to prove the supposed change in popular opinion.
3. I'm not in denial about the fact that the current administration is abusing its power, but the United States is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. It's been that way for years and it will continue to be that way until China takes over as world power.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
So America must continue the battle to ensure that an organization that America introduced into the country doesn't "claim victory".
America introduced into the country? interesting choice of words. but ok. its americas fault they are there. now what? we let them set up shop or kill them what would you prefer?
"No. Because your Government are immoral, greedy liars and murderers, and anyone who respects the criminal American Government is stupid."
That has to be one of the worst post I've ever read on this board. My perspective is wide open, yet I hold on to certain values. But these values do not limit me from steping out and examining other ideas. None-the-less, this post from Byrnzie is rediculous and I can't believe anybody would defend it.
This coming from the guy who reckons the US really DID everything they could to limit civilian casualties and who said soldiers are not murderers... some soldiers are, some soldiers aren't, therefore one cannot say 'soldiers are not murderers' just as much as you cannot say 'soldiers ARE murderers' :rolleyes:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
ok so what? cant change that now. still not sure how that makes cheney misguided. he seems to know perfectly well who the enemy is.
America introduced into the country? interesting choice of words. but ok. its americas fault they are there. now what? we let them set up shop or kill them what would you prefer?
The problem is that you can't kill them. It's not like they run around wearing Al Qaeda uniforms. If you don't know that Al Qaeda is just being used as a boogeyman to scare people into supporting this war, then there really is something wrong with the way that you perceive reality. At what point in this process will America reliquishes control of Iraqi oil to Iraq?
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
but there was alot of truth to it. I like Brynzie's posts...very direct..and doesnt' pull punches...I don't agree with some of it...but wish more people would speak their mind like this....maybe some folks in the US would get their heads out.
If you don't know that Al Qaeda is just being used as a boogeyman to scare people into supporting this war, then there really is something wrong with the way that you perceive reality.
so do you believe el queda exists? hell, even I'll admit i'm not quite sure I know who the enemy is when it comes to shiite/sunni.
at this point I'm not sure what to support. el queda seems to be decimated in Iraq and shiite sunnis are more interested in killing each other then american soldiers. thats something the iraqis themselves need to figure out.
At what point in this process will America reliquishes control of Iraqi oil to Iraq?
Iraq does have control of their oil. american companies are helping pump the stuff out of the ground but Iraq oil itself is controlled by OPEC. dont tell me its not, I do this for a living. I work for a trading firm that trades oil. sorry to disappoint you
Iraq does have control of their oil. american companies are helping pump the stuff out of the ground but Iraq oil itself is controlled by OPEC. dont tell me its not, I do this for a living. I work for a trading firm that trades oil. sorry to disappoint you
Awww... how sweet of them
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Comments
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
a bit of a generalization? ya think?
I agree that at this point killing is "necessary", meaning it IS going to happen on a grandscale, because individuals do not understand. Again, it is a basic psychological principle that when we overpower someone, we put ourselves into a cycle that repeats and comes back to us. Therefore your strategies of overpowering and dominating make sense on one level--logically and strategically--, and yet at BASE they are fueling the fire, escalating the problems, precipitating backlashes for years to come. Backlashes which will be blamed on those who act them out. These problems are not 50/50 in accountability ratio. Your country is 100% responsible for your actions including the reverberations that will come back to you, and the "bad guys" are 100% responsible for their own and the reverberations that will return to them.
Until the average person figures this out, and new leaders and ACTUAL problem solving is demanded, YES, mass killing will result. The problem is everyone is accountable for their lack of problem solving. We are accountable for the killing we support in our ignorance. That's life at this time, I guess.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I do love this board and its format...it does challenge me..and hopefully others. Great means for the population to communicate without government/corporate filters. Thanks Pearl Jam and those that make this possible.
Here is a post from Byrnzie
"No. Because your Government are immoral, greedy liars and murderers, and anyone who respects the criminal American Government is stupid."
That has to be one of the worst post I've ever read on this board. My perspective is wide open, yet I hold on to certain values. But these values do not limit me from steping out and examining other ideas. None-the-less, this post from Byrnzie is rediculous and I can't believe anybody would defend it.
Immoral- we're sending Billions to Iraq..yet people are starving in Africa oh and in the US. New Orleans is still a mess, so some could see our goverment as being immoral.
Greedy liars-many would argue, and I tend to agree, that the reason we're in Iraq is solely for the oil...Bush even admitted that in his last speach.
Murderers- there are many people in the world that feel they're loved ones where murdered by the American government. ( I still feel there's no malice, I may be using a coping mechanism for myself) but I didn't have my family wiped out by a misguided bomb.
People supporting are stupid- well I whole heartedly agree as does 98% if the worlds population...so this isn't a stretch. One of Cheney's talking points this weekend for continuing the battle is "so Alqaida(sp?) can't claim victory in Iraq...how shallow and misguided is that...and a good portion of the American people will justify continued bloodshed because they don't want to be losers....jokes on them.
Peace
whats stupid is making up statistics. 98% huh. why is cheney's comment shallow and misguided? would you like to see el queda claim victory in Iraq, maybe set up some training camps? blow themselves in the middle of a crowded market full of innocent iraqi civillians? wait, who is misguided again?
I pulled the 98% out of my arsch....but I'm thinking pretty accurate...+/- a few % points. As far as claiming victory....who cares what they think..we need to develop stategies based on results. But Cheney knows how to push our Patiotic American buttons, and continues to do so..and continues to make us look like fools...again supporting Brynzie's post.
great job dodging all of my questions. why is cheney's comment (continuing the battle is "so el queda can't claim victory in Iraq..) shallow and misguided?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
What does this have to do with the effect of gamma rays on Man in The Mon marigolds?
Hail, Hail!!!
The reason I defend that post, NCfan, is because I was very closely watching this thread as you and Byrnzie were posting on Friday. I specifically noticed Byrnzie's post in it's original form --before it was deleted and before Byrnzie was banned for the day, and before other people had time to really register what he said. In it's original form, it was a paragraph about 4 or so lines long. I thought the post was restrained, intelligent and insightful. And I specifically noticed it and remember it because I was impressed with what he said.
Here is what was originally said: Then Byrnzie responded by saying something about how No, the American people are NOT stupid. And he explained for a few sentences before he ended by saying "anyone who respects the criminal American Government is stupid". Granted, I personally would not have generalized that those who respect the criminal American government are stupid. And yet, I can still clearly hear his point: respecting criminals and criminal action/behaviour IS stupid, by many people's standards. He was banned for a day. The post was deleted, but the post in question stood out in my memory because he was defending the general American people, while holding those who support criminal government actions as the ones accountable, as is the case.
So back to my point: His point went unheard on Friday. While you were saying this about him: "Whatever man, you're pathetic and deep down somewhere under all your layers of bullshit you know it", it sure didn't seem like you were hearing what he was saying.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
How about because fucking Al Qaeda had absolutely no prescence in Iraq before the war? So America must continue the battle to ensure that an organization that America introduced into the country doesn't "claim victory". If that isn't shallow and misguided, then what is?
1. There are a lot of conservative intelligent people who knew better as well.
2. The only reason why it seems like people are against the war now is because the international media say they are and they have polls and statistics they've picked to prove the supposed change in popular opinion.
3. I'm not in denial about the fact that the current administration is abusing its power, but the United States is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. It's been that way for years and it will continue to be that way until China takes over as world power.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
ok so what? cant change that now. still not sure how that makes cheney misguided. he seems to know perfectly well who the enemy is.
America introduced into the country? interesting choice of words. but ok. its americas fault they are there. now what? we let them set up shop or kill them what would you prefer?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
booga booga , look out behind you, there coming to get you
The problem is that you can't kill them. It's not like they run around wearing Al Qaeda uniforms. If you don't know that Al Qaeda is just being used as a boogeyman to scare people into supporting this war, then there really is something wrong with the way that you perceive reality. At what point in this process will America reliquishes control of Iraqi oil to Iraq?
If they see US soldiers, they just stay low. Wait till they are gone. They can wait much longer than the US has staying power.
naděje umírá poslední
Thanks.
so do you believe el queda exists? hell, even I'll admit i'm not quite sure I know who the enemy is when it comes to shiite/sunni.
at this point I'm not sure what to support. el queda seems to be decimated in Iraq and shiite sunnis are more interested in killing each other then american soldiers. thats something the iraqis themselves need to figure out.
Iraq does have control of their oil. american companies are helping pump the stuff out of the ground but Iraq oil itself is controlled by OPEC. dont tell me its not, I do this for a living. I work for a trading firm that trades oil. sorry to disappoint you
really? how do you know?
they pay we well
Awww... how sweet of them
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
naděje umírá poslední