Seems to me a lot of Americans are only against the war because its not going well

aoife

I know there are a lot of liberal intelligent people who were against it from the get go but nowadays it seems there are a lot of people against it. This might seem like a good thing but i really dont think it is because they just dont like that its costing so much money and lives, they still dont see that it was an initial mistake. They still havent learned that other country's affairs are none of their business and that the rest of the world doesnt want their "help"(a.k.a. bomb the shit out of other countries). I mean unless people learn that exporting values for example democracy doesnt work then we are all condemned to watch history repeat itself over and over again.

CorporateWhore

As JFK said, victory has a thousand fathers but defeat is an orphan.

Pearl Jam and toast

I see what you're saying, but being against a war because its been completely fucked up is a good reason.

ledvedderman

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that more and more information keeps coming out that the reasons we went to were were false, and this administration knew it all along.

The fact that it's going so bad just adds fuel to the fire of being lied to.

macgyver06

you idiot! there is no war..just a conflict of alliances...check your history.

aoife

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

I see what you're saying, but being against a war because its been completely fucked up is a good reason.

Ya but its been completely fucked up for the civilians since it began and i think its an insult to them to only express concern now that its affecting ye, especially since ye went in their under the guise of liberating them. Also if you follow that logic then a successful war would be justified regardless of how many innocent Iraques died. Another thing that annoys me is this bands emphasis on the troops as if they were the most deserved of sympathy. These are people who most of them willingly went into a foreign country in which they had no business and killed innocent men, women and children and illegally tortured prisoners. Not all of them i know are evil or are guilty of the above , many of them may have been mislead or forced to go also but the sizable majority believed in what they were doing and they are murderers. Sympathy should be directed at the civilian popoulation who suffered under the american terrorism

aoife

macgyver06 wrote:

you idiot! there is no war..just a conflict of alliances...check your history.

Your right its not a war it was a terrorist attack on the people of Iraq

macgyver06

what is the purpose of this war? no ccan ever seem to answer this?

macgyver06

aoife wrote:

Your right its not a war it was a terrorist attack on the people of Iraq

we have unstabilized a sunni /shiite nation and have made it a shiite nation...

oh and who are the shittes friends

hint: they are a little east of iraq

Pearl Jam and toast

aoife wrote:

Ya but its been completely fucked up for the civilians since it began and i think its an insult to them to only express concern now that its affecting ye, especially since ye went in their under the guise of liberating them. Also if you follow that logic then a successful war would be justified regardless of how many innocent Iraques died. Another thing that annoys me is this bands emphasis on the troops as if they were the most deserved of sympathy. These are people who most of them willingly went into a foreign country in which they had no business and killed innocent men, women and children and illegally tortured prisoners. Not all of them i know are evil or are guilty of the above , many of them may have been mislead or forced to go also but the sizable majority believed in what they were doing and they are murderers. Sympathy should be directed at the civilian popoulation who suffered under the american terrorism

I agree. Like I said, I see what you're saying, but there are a lot of incredibly selfish people in this country.. warhawks. As long as America is doing fine the rest of the world can go fuck off. But now it's becoming more and more clear that we fucked up,.. Anyway,.. it's a valid reason, but yeah it's a damn shame that it's the only reason for some people.

macgyver06

keep supporting a nation under false pretenses....

and as they say in islam...you will choose the path of the sword

aoife

ledvedderman wrote:

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that more and more information keeps coming out that the reasons we went to were were false, and this administration knew it all along.

The fact that it's going so bad just adds fuel to the fire of being lied to.

Ya but most intelligent people copped that the were lying from the beginning

macgyver06

aoife wrote:

Ya but most intelligent people copped that the were lying from the beginning

it has nothing to do with an intelligence...its picking up a book and realizing the history of the countries involved and the bush family's lack of communication skills.

Byrnzie

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article2144057.ece

'For their relevance this morning, the words of the conservative politician Pat Buchanan deserve to be written in marble:

"We will soon launch an imperial war on Iraq with all the 'On to Berlin' bravado with which French poilus and British tommies marched in August 1914. But this invasion will not be the cakewalk neoconservatives predict ... For a militant Islam that holds in thrall scores of millions of true believers will never accept George Bush dictating the destiny of the Islamic world ...

"The one endeavour at which Islamic peoples excel is expelling imperial powers by terror and guerrilla war. They drove the Brits out of Palestine and Aden, the French out of Algeria, the Russians out of Afghanistan, the Americans out of Somalia and Beirut, the Israelis out of Lebanon... We have started up the road to empire and over the next hill we will meet those who went before."

Pat Buchanan ended his prophecy with imperishable words: "The only lesson we learn from history is that we do not learn from history."

aoife

macgyver06 wrote:

it has nothing to do with an intelligence...its picking up a book and realizing the history of the countries involved and the bush family's lack of communication skills.

Ya but stupid people dont pick up books:) No but seriously all it involves is a skeptical mind and an all round knowledge of the anglo-saxon race. I always go by this quote "beware perphidious albian"

1970RR

aoife wrote:

I know there are a lot of liberal intelligent people who were against it from the get go but nowadays it seems there are a lot of people against it. This might seem like a good thing but i really dont think it is because they just dont like that its costing so much money and lives, they still dont see that it was an initial mistake. They still havent learned that other country's affairs are none of their business and that the rest of the world doesnt want their "help"(a.k.a. bomb the shit out of other countries). I mean unless people learn that exporting values for example democracy doesnt work then we are all condemned to watch history repeat itself over and over again.

You should be glad they are changing their minds. Maybe it will help end the war sooner.

John Budge

aoife wrote:

Your right its not a war it was a terrorist attack on the people of Iraq

It's not a terrorist attack when you know it's going to happen.

macgyver06

Byrnzie wrote:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article2144057.ece

'For their relevance this morning, the words of the conservative politician Pat Buchanan deserve to be written in marble:

"We will soon launch an imperial war on Iraq with all the 'On to Berlin' bravado with which French poilus and British tommies marched in August 1914. But this invasion will not be the cakewalk neoconservatives predict ... For a militant Islam that holds in thrall scores of millions of true believers will never accept George Bush dictating the destiny of the Islamic world ...

"The one endeavour at which Islamic peoples excel is expelling imperial powers by terror and guerrilla war. They drove the Brits out of Palestine and Aden, the French out of Algeria, the Russians out of Afghanistan, the Americans out of Somalia and Beirut, the Israelis out of Lebanon... We have started up the road to empire and over the next hill we will meet those who went before."

Pat Buchanan ended his prophecy with imperishable words: "The only lesson we learn from history is that we do not learn from history."

very cool...still its hard getting people to grasp history...everyone makes these posts...but when facts are presented they are ignored??? when the answers to the future lay in the facts of the present...


and yet in 2 weeks we will have another ignorant post

macgyver06

John Budge wrote:

It's not a terrorist attack when you know it's going to happen.

thats incorrect.

delete this post ..lol its a lie

aoife

John Budge wrote:

It's not a terrorist attack when you know it's going to happen.

Judging by your number of posts and your cold remarks you are the devil so i want no more to do with you:) terrorism is anything that evokes a feeling of terror , pre warning could only increase that feeling so you have no point

RockinInCanada

I think that, regardless of the reasons, the more people that begin to oppose this war it is a good thing......

aoife

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

I think that, regardless of the reasons, the more people that begin to oppose this war it is a good thing......

Ya but if it isnt for the right resons then its only a matter of time before another cynically motivated war is instigated and more innocent civilians die by their hands. What really needs to change is peoples attitudes, the more people in a country who turn against a war for selfish reasons the more people willing to enter back into one for selfish reasons a few decades or so down the line. Just take Vietnam for example, a perfect example of how you shouldn't stick your nose into things that have nothing to do with you and did anyone learn from that , no. perhaps if they had they wouldnt be in this situation today

aoife

macgyver06 wrote:

very cool...still its hard getting people to grasp history...everyone makes these posts...but when facts are presented they are ignored??? when the answers to the future lay in the facts of the present...


and yet in 2 weeks we will have another ignorant post

Are you calling my posts ignorant?

RockinInCanada

aoife wrote:

Ya but if it isnt for the right resons then its only a matter of time before another cynically motivated war is instigated and more innocent civilians die by their hands. What really needs to change is peoples attitudes, the more people in a country who turn against a war for selfish reasons the more people willing to enter back into one for selfish reasons a few decades or so down the line. Just take Vietnam for example, a perfect example of how you shouldn't stick your nose into things that have nothing to do with you and did anyone learn from that , no. perhaps if they had they wouldnt be in this situation today

Hey I totally agree with your logic....but will the American public learn...I cannot answer that, however it is obvious they did not after Vietnam...what bugs me is that this was a "faux" war from the start built on shelfish interests....did you happen to watch W's speech last night?

It was outrageous, in my opinion, calling for the Iraqi people to stand up and take responsiblity give me a fucking break...it's time that those who supported this mess stand up and admit they were wrong....not just wrong in strategy but wrong from the word go.....intelligence was flawed/strategy was flawed/everything flawed even the damn concept of going into Iraq was flawed......unfortunately more death will need to be dealt for the rest of country to finally seeing the mistake they made......what gets me is Bush makes it out that Iraqi's want "Democracy...Made in America Style"...plus how is this 20,000 troop increase anything new? Its the same old plan from a dumb man I say....it will fail miserbly and those that believe it will work are dellusional.....

IMHO its time this Bush Adminstration takes responsibilty for this disasterous effort instead of pawning the blame on someone else....especially those that are taking the blunt of the damage....makes me sick.....

aoife

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Hey I totally agree with your logic....but will the American public learn...I cannot answer that, however it is obvious they did not after Vietnam...what bugs me is that this was a "faux" war from the start built on shelfish interests....did you happen to watch W's speech last night?

It was outrageous, in my opinion, calling for the Iraqi people to stand up and take responsiblity give me a fucking break...it's time that those who supported this mess stand up and admit they were wrong....not just wrong in strategy but wrong from the word go.....intelligence was flawed/strategy was flawed/everything flawed even the damn concept of going into Iraq was flawed......unfortunately more death will need to be dealt for the rest of country to finally seeing the mistake they made......what gets me is Bush makes it out that Iraqi's want "Democracy...Made in America Style"...plus how is this 20,000 troop increase anything new? Its the same old plan from a dumb man I say....it will fail miserbly and those that believe it will work are dellusional.....

IMHO its time this Bush Adminstration takes responsibilty for this disasterous effort instead of pawning the blame on someone else....especially those that are taking the blunt of the damage....makes me sick.....

No i didnt see it i dont bother listening to anything that man says it just riles me up:)

RockinInCanada

aoife wrote:

No i didnt see it i dont bother listening to anything that man says it just riles me up:)

Yeah I say that all the time....but I find the need to listen to him so the next day I can argue his backward logic.....it is impossible for me to keep a straight face listening to him....plus the way he speaks.....sentence...pause....sentence....pause.....sentence...pause...it is like slow motion speaking with the man......I am either laughing or penting up anger listening to the man speak....one of the worst spoken world leaders I have heard in my young life......let's see if this troop increase does the trick...I'll make a wager it does not.....

John Budge

aoife wrote:

Judging by your number of posts and your cold remarks you are the devil so i want no more to do with you:) terrorism is anything that evokes a feeling of terror , pre warning could only increase that feeling so you have no point

Regardless, your characterization of the Iraq invasion as a terrorist attack is rubbish of the highest order.

RockinInCanada

John Budge wrote:

Regardless, your characterization of the Iraq invasion as a terrorist attack is rubbish of the highest order.

There was intelligence that planes were to be used as weapons prior 9/11 therefore you could also say that was not a terrorist attack either.....what I tend to call Iraq is an unprovoked attack on a soverign nation...with the USA as the instigators.....

aoife

John Budge wrote:

Regardless, your characterization of the Iraq invasion as a terrorist attack is rubbish of the highest order.

How so? just because its state endorsed. its certainly not a war , a war needs to have two adversaries or more, the americans just decided to go into Iraq unprovoked andkill innocent people. the country had no realistic chance of defending itself. they were unprovoked attacks which terrorised a civilian population. Whats the differece between this and other terrorist attacks

jeffbr

aoife wrote:

How so? just because its state endorsed. its certainly not a war , a war needs to have two adversaries or more, the americans just decided to go into Iraq unprovoked andkill innocent people. the country had no realistic chance of defending itself. they were unprovoked attacks which terrorised a civilian population. Whats the differece between this and other terrorist attacks

I know it was hard to tell, but we actually did fight the Iraq army initially. What you're seeing now isn't what the war started out being. We fought Saddam and his army, and made mincemeat out of them. What we did had no relation to terrorism and your characterization is completely wrong.

I think your original post is correct, however. Support for this war has certainly wained as it continues to carry on with no real successes, and no exist strategy. Everyone loves a winner. If we were clearing winning this thing, you'd see a lot more support. Support was quite high when we were fighting the Iraqi army and kicking their ass.

aoife

jeffbr wrote:

I know it was hard to tell, but we actually did fight the Iraq army initially. What you're seeing now isn't what the war started out being. We fought Saddam and his army, and made mincemeat out of them. What we did had no relation to terrorism and your characterization is completely wrong.

I think your original post is correct, however. Support for this war has certainly wained as it continues to carry on with no real successes, and no exist strategy. Everyone loves a winner. If we were clearing winning this thing, you'd see a lot more support. Support was quite high when we were fighting the Iraqi army and kicking their ass.

But they were ill equiped to defend themselves and so had no real chance of winning, it is terrorism because their response was only a reaction to the unprovoked attacks of the americans. Just say Iraq had bombed america, the americans would obviously react by attacking them but the initial attack would still be called a terrorist attack. Its one rule for ye and another for everyone else isnt it. Oh god forbid anyone should attack the americans because that would be terrorism but they can bomb the shit out of small defencless countries all around the world and thats liberating them. fucking hypocrites