Most Americans support it, but of the ones who don't, your reasons account for a huge number of them.
I've never personally discussed it with anyone who didn't support it. My son-in-law, however, grew up in rural PA, and he took his mom to a church event where it came up, and they were talking about the poor little babies in test tubes!!! That is seriously the picture they have in their minds when you talk about embryonic stem cells. How do you even begin to talk to such people?
That is truly offensive! (If we can't control you with fire & brimstone we'll mozz you with scare campaigns and ignorance!) Why do people do this?
Tell you what, I'll find a good video lecture on stem-cell research and post it.
It's going to take me a while to weed through the religious crap though.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That is truly offensive! (If we can't control you with fire & brimstone we'll mozz you with scare campaigns and ignorance!) Why do people do this?
I don't know if anyone actually told them this. I tend to think it's more that's what pops into their head when they hear the word "embryo." They're all heavily into the so-called pro-life thing, so they're used to seeing pictures of embryos (way beyond the blastocyst stage, obviously) blown up and put on posters, so when they hear that word they picture a teeny tiny baby. I doubt their pastor is telling them blatant lies, they're just completely ignorant of the facts. And of course, anyone who isn't "pro-life" is a baby-hating fiend, so they're able to actually believe that a bunch of Alzheimer's researchers have babies in jars lining the shelves of their labs. It's truly bizarre. My son-in-law tried to inject a little reality into their meeting, but everyone was ganging up on him, he wound up shaking his head and telling them "go read a book, for crying out loud." His mom was not pleased, haha.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
It should be noted too that each individual ovary and each individual sperm cell is an organism all on it's own. Every time a woman has a period or every time a guy jacks off they are killing something.
I agree! Unfortunately the righteous have already hijacked this because isn't it a sin to use a condom or to masturbate in the catholic religion? Why am I singing "every sperm is sacred" over & over in my head??!!
It's all a plot to control women anyway!
Tell you what, I'll find a good video lecture on stem-cell research and post it.
It's going to take me a while to weed through the religious crap though.
That would be excellent, thank you. And better you than me with the religious crap! I really have a low tolerance for it! Break out in ranting attacks!
I agree! Unfortunately the righteous have already hijacked this because isn't it a sin to use a condom or to masturbate in the catholic religion? Why am I singing "every sperm is sacred" over & over in my head??!!
It's all a plot to control women anyway!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
As I was typing my last post, I was singing that song to myself! You know what they say about great minds
:D:D
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
That would be excellent, thank you. And better you than me with the religious crap! I really have a low tolerance for it! Break out in ranting attacks!
This is probably going to be the best lecture series online, you just need to register and they send you a free poster.
Lecture One—Understanding Embryonic Stem Cells
56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1
Lecture Two—Adult Stem Cells and Regeneration
56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1
Lecture Three—Coaxing Embryonic Stem Cells
56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1
Lecture Four—Stem Cells and the End of Aging
56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1
You can also order all of their lectures on DVD for free, but this one isn't available until some time next year.
EDIT: Damn, need realplayer, I don't have it at work, but I've watched all of the HHMI holiday lectures and they are really good.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't know if anyone actually told them this. I tend to think it's more that's what pops into their head when they hear the word "embryo." They're all heavily into the so-called pro-life thing, so they're used to seeing pictures of embryos (way beyond the blastocyst stage, obviously) blown up and put on posters, so when they hear that word they picture a teeny tiny baby. I doubt their pastor is telling them blatant lies, they're just completely ignorant of the facts. And of course, anyone who isn't "pro-life" is a baby-hating fiend, so they're able to actually believe that a bunch of Alzheimer's researchers have babies in jars lining the shelves of their labs. It's truly bizarre. My son-in-law tried to inject a little reality into their meeting, but everyone was ganging up on him, he wound up shaking his head and telling them "go read a book, for crying out loud." His mom was not pleased, haha.
Well I am very pleased with his efforts! It takes a brave man to stand up to the uninformed!
"If you think a blastocyst is the same as a baby, you obviously aren't doing this research."
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
You can also order all of their lectures on DVD for free, but this one isn't available until some time next year.
EDIT: Damn, need realplayer, I don't have it at work, but I've watched all of the HHMI holiday lectures and they are really good.
Thanks Ahnimus. Might take me awhile to work out how to get this but I will persevere. Have I mentioned my technological disability? Dial up doesn't help. I'll let you know how I go. Cheers!
Thanks Ahnimus. Might take me awhile to work out how to get this but I will persevere. Have I mentioned my technological disability? Dial up doesn't help. I'll let you know how I go. Cheers!
Yea, I will watch some of this tonight as well. I'm half-way through a lecture series on Visual cognition and the neural correlates of consciousness (NCC), but I need to mix it up a bit. This way I can better debate the issue as well
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It's been great and really informative speaking with you both (Ahnimus & Hippiemom). I have to go now because I've been informed to get off the internet so my friend can ring me on the home phone! (BLOODY DIAL UP!!) Probably should do some housework anyway! Humpph! (What a wasted life!) I will definately find a way to download the links you have posted for me, thanks again, and I will have a look see and let you know what I think. Now I must go and put on Yellow Leadbetter so I can deprogramme "Every Sperm is Sacred" from my subconcious! Cheers
It's been great and really informative speaking with you both (Ahnimus & Hippiemom). I have to go now because I've been informed to get off the internet so my friend can ring me on the home phone! (BLOODY DIAL UP!!) Probably should do some housework anyway! Humpph! (What a wasted life!) I will definately find a way to download the links you have posted for me, thanks again, and I will have a look see and let you know what I think. Now I must go and put on Yellow Leadbetter so I can deprogramme "Every Sperm is Sacred" from my subconcious! Cheers
Haha, enjoy
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yea, I will watch some of this tonight as well. I'm half-way through a lecture series on Visual cognition and the neural correlates of consciousness (NCC), but I need to mix it up a bit. This way I can better debate the issue as well
Oooo, 'cept this sounds interesting too! NCC? Can I have a brief baby steps overview? Is this to do with Neural pathways? Always interests me. Let me know and I'll read up on this too. Do you mind if I ask questions after?
Oooo, 'cept this sounds interesting too! NCC? Can I have a brief baby steps overview? Is this to do with Neural pathways? Always interests me coz mine are broken. Let me know and I'll read up on this too. Do you mind if I ask questions after?
GO for it, ask as many questions as you want, but be warned all I know is learned on the internet.
NCC is a term coined by Christof Koch and Francis Crick.
They've been studying the Neural Correlates of Consciousness in the Visual system for 20 years. Francis Crick is passed away now.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Oooo, 'cept this sounds interesting too! NCC? Can I have a brief baby steps overview? Is this to do with Neural pathways? Always interests me coz mine are broken. Let me know and I'll read up on this too. Do you mind if I ask questions after?
Yea, it's to do with Neural pathways, Neural Networks and the specific areas or single neurons that correlate with our consciousness.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
This whole thread is the back and forth bullshit of people speaking out of their asses if you ask me. No one acknowledges statistical data, hard research or anything like that.
Their opinions stem only from personal experience. Which gives an idea of their cultures values and their upbringing, but little in terms of reality.
how are things that actually happened in real people's lives somehow not reality?
how are things that actually happened in real people's lives somehow not reality?
I'm not going through this with you again.
Personal experience is not everything. When we are talking about the effects of having homosexual parents or homosexuality in general, or child development in general, personal experience amounts to squat.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Main Entry: 1dy·nam·ic
Pronunciation: dI-'na-mik
Function: adjective
Etymology: French dynamique, from Greek dynamikos powerful, from dynamis power, from dynasthai to be able
1 also dy·nam·i·cal /-mi-k&l/ a : of or relating to physical force or energy b : of or relating to dynamics
2 a : marked by usually continuous and productive activity or change <a dynamic city> b : ENERGETIC, FORCEFUL <a dynamic personality>
3 of random-access memory : requiring periodic refreshment of charge in order to retain data
- dy·nam·i·cal·ly /-mi-k(&-)lE/ adverb http://m-w.com/dictionary/dynamical
Man, why do you even say this crap?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It should be noted too that each individual ovary and each individual sperm cell is an organism all on it's own.Every time a woman has a period or every time a guy jacks off they are killing something.
i disagree ahnimus.
women are not in control of this natural function anymore than we are in control of breathing. do not compare menstruating with paying homage to Onan.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i disagree ahnimus.
women are not in control of this natural function anymore than we are in control of breathing. do not compare menstruating with paying homage to Onan.
lol, ok, true that.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Hey man, I don't want to seem like a prick, just getting frustrated with this board sometimes. Especially when people pick at things like this.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I think it depends on a lot of other factors. Obviously, it's not something that anyone wants to hear, but if it happens with any frequency at all, or if the parent doesn't apologize later, that makes a huge difference. There is not one person alive over the age of about four that hasn't said something that they regretted before they were even finished saying it. Kids aren't stupid, they can understand that if you admit your mistake. I see the bigger problem as being how few parents are willing to admit to their kids that they were wrong.
I'm certainly not condoning verbal abuse, I think it's at least as damaging as physical abuse. I'm just saying that a once-in-a-blue-moon hurtful remark in an otherwise loving household doesn't constitute abuse.
i think the point we're missing is that it has nothing to do with what or how YOU perceive it. it is the childs mind and they live with the way they preceive it. what is real in their minds is real to them. my grand said something to me 45 years ago that haunts me to this day. i still have nightmares about it sometimes. i saw a reality show where a woman was getting mad at her husband because she told him she cheated then said she was sorry. he was trying to explain to her that saying you're sorry doesn't change what happened and doesn't take away the hurt. as you said; kids aren't stupid. you may be sorry you said it but it was your feelings at the time.
You can't put the cause for homosexuality in a nice, tidy package. I believe the reasons or motivations for it run the entire spectrum from genetics to experiences to choice.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
First, let me say that I started this thread just to see what people think.... not becuase I'm against gay people. I have many gay friends and I think the government should allow homosexuals all the rights and liberties as they do heterosexuals. I also agree that being gay is not a choice, you are born that way.
That being said, let's look at nature. It is a fact that homosexuality is an anomally among animals. The vast majority of animals are genetically programed to be attracted to the opposite sex to ensure the survival of the species. Therefore, it seems that something "goes wrong" when humans develop to be homosexuals. This argument might sounds bigoted, but it holds some truth. Humans are not supposed to be autistic no more than they are supposed to be gay. It is not natures way for species to be homosexual. In other words, gays will ALWAYS be a small minority of the population regardless how accepted they are by society or the government.
I look at this fact when contemplating if gay couples should be allowed to raise children... a la Mary Chaney. I'm not saying the government should step in, I just feel that it is morally wrong towards the child for them to be raised in a homosexual household.
I feel that it serves the parents more than the child. I have no problem with people proclaiming their homosexuality. But why would they want to put a child in the precarious situation of being raised in that environment??? It seems amoral and selfish to me. Nature has given us the rules by which species procreate. It is unatural for gays to have children, it is synthetic...
Your thoughts?
Let me also say that I can see the case for adoption much more so than say a gay women who gets impregnated in order to have children.
homosexuell's are unconstitutional.they bring nothin to society exept aids.i dont think its a DISEASE, but is damn right disgusting and folk's who do this kind of thing make me sick to my stomach.Adoption should be reserved for those who cant have kid's and those who will raise it into a good,normal human being.how can a child be normal when its raised by two fuckin fairy's. im all for the sepration of church and state,but if we need god some were it's NOW.
I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
homosexuell's are unconstitutional.they bring nothin to society exept aids.i dont think its a DISEASE, but is damn right disgusting and folk's who do this kind of thing make me sick to my stomach.Adoption should be reserved for those who cant have kid's and those who will raise it into a good,normal human being.how can a child be normal when its raised by two fuckin fairy's. im all for the sepration of church and state,but if we need god some were it's NOW.
Oh yay! Dino's back!
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Comments
That is truly offensive! (If we can't control you with fire & brimstone we'll mozz you with scare campaigns and ignorance!) Why do people do this?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
It's going to take me a while to weed through the religious crap though.
I agree! Unfortunately the righteous have already hijacked this because isn't it a sin to use a condom or to masturbate in the catholic religion? Why am I singing "every sperm is sacred" over & over in my head??!!
It's all a plot to control women anyway!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
That would be excellent, thank you. And better you than me with the religious crap! I really have a low tolerance for it! Break out in ranting attacks!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
As I was typing my last post, I was singing that song to myself! You know what they say about great minds
This is probably going to be the best lecture series online, you just need to register and they send you a free poster.
http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/stemcells/lectures.html
Lecture One—Understanding Embryonic Stem Cells
56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1
Lecture Two—Adult Stem Cells and Regeneration
56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1
Lecture Three—Coaxing Embryonic Stem Cells
56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1
Lecture Four—Stem Cells and the End of Aging
56k modem or Cable/DSL/T1
You can also order all of their lectures on DVD for free, but this one isn't available until some time next year.
EDIT: Damn, need realplayer, I don't have it at work, but I've watched all of the HHMI holiday lectures and they are really good.
Well I am very pleased with his efforts! It takes a brave man to stand up to the uninformed!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Haha, I'm watching this video on google video
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-4149054203035932863&q=stem+cell
"If you think a blastocyst is the same as a baby, you obviously aren't doing this research."
Clearly we are on the same page!
It's from Monty Python? Yes? My memory is not what is used to be! Really need that stem cell research!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Thanks Ahnimus. Might take me awhile to work out how to get this but I will persevere. Have I mentioned my technological disability? Dial up doesn't help. I'll let you know how I go. Cheers!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Yea, I will watch some of this tonight as well. I'm half-way through a lecture series on Visual cognition and the neural correlates of consciousness (NCC), but I need to mix it up a bit. This way I can better debate the issue as well
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Haha, enjoy
Oooo, 'cept this sounds interesting too! NCC? Can I have a brief baby steps overview? Is this to do with Neural pathways? Always interests me. Let me know and I'll read up on this too. Do you mind if I ask questions after?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
GO for it, ask as many questions as you want, but be warned all I know is learned on the internet.
NCC is a term coined by Christof Koch and Francis Crick.
They've been studying the Neural Correlates of Consciousness in the Visual system for 20 years. Francis Crick is passed away now.
You can watch Christof Koch's lecture series here.
http://www.klab.caltech.edu/~koch/
Yea, it's to do with Neural pathways, Neural Networks and the specific areas or single neurons that correlate with our consciousness.
how are things that actually happened in real people's lives somehow not reality?
I'm not going through this with you again.
Personal experience is not everything. When we are talking about the effects of having homosexual parents or homosexuality in general, or child development in general, personal experience amounts to squat.
im pretty sure dynamical is not a word.
I'm pretty sure it is
Main Entry: 1dy·nam·ic
Pronunciation: dI-'na-mik
Function: adjective
Etymology: French dynamique, from Greek dynamikos powerful, from dynamis power, from dynasthai to be able
1 also dy·nam·i·cal /-mi-k&l/ a : of or relating to physical force or energy b : of or relating to dynamics
2 a : marked by usually continuous and productive activity or change <a dynamic city> b : ENERGETIC, FORCEFUL <a dynamic personality>
3 of random-access memory : requiring periodic refreshment of charge in order to retain data
- dy·nam·i·cal·ly /-mi-k(&-)lE/ adverb
http://m-w.com/dictionary/dynamical
Man, why do you even say this crap?
i disagree ahnimus.
women are not in control of this natural function anymore than we are in control of breathing. do not compare menstruating with paying homage to Onan.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
lol, ok, true that.
Hey man, I don't want to seem like a prick, just getting frustrated with this board sometimes. Especially when people pick at things like this.
I didn't think it was either, but I checked.
It is.
-C Addison
i think the point we're missing is that it has nothing to do with what or how YOU perceive it. it is the childs mind and they live with the way they preceive it. what is real in their minds is real to them. my grand said something to me 45 years ago that haunts me to this day. i still have nightmares about it sometimes. i saw a reality show where a woman was getting mad at her husband because she told him she cheated then said she was sorry. he was trying to explain to her that saying you're sorry doesn't change what happened and doesn't take away the hurt. as you said; kids aren't stupid. you may be sorry you said it but it was your feelings at the time.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.
Oh yay! Dino's back!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde