So NCfan are you saying 2 men or 2 women are incapable of raising a child and giving it the same amount of love and guidance that a man and a woman can?
how do you define disease? i wish i had a dollar for every time i heard "i'm going back to men". this tells me you're not born with it. especially when i hear "i'm switching to women" by women. and women letting their dogs lick them goes far back in history.
my opinion is do what you want; just don't involve me.
What, do you not have any infertile/impotent couples as friends?
Fuck you man. I have a valid point. You don't need to take shots at me becuase you disagree. I don't even have my mind made up about how I feel about gays raising children. That is why I started this thread, to see what others thought and how they rationalized their decision.
I'm stuck on the fact that by nature's design, a homo couple cannot get pregnant own their own. In contrast a hetero couple can. This has meaning to me.
You should respect my feelings becuase I'm not coming on here gay bashing and trashing other peole and their lifestyles.
People like you and comments like this are what is wrong with the MT. You can't even bring a well thought out thread to the forum without being verbally jumped by some punk like you who just wants to take cheap shots....
So NCfan are you saying 2 men or 2 women are incapable of raising a child and giving it the same amount of love and guidance that a man and a woman can?
Nope, not at all.....I think a homo couple is capable of giving a child just as much love and affection as a hetero couple...
What in the fuck.... Dude, I'm not talking about an individual couple here or there that are impotent. I'm saying that overall, two women are incapable of reproducing on their own. Sure, there are infertile hetero couples all over the place. But normal hetero couples are capable of reproducing. Normal homo couples are not...... understand???????????
but your entire argument is based on the fact that homo couples are simply not normal, they are an aberration from nature, just like infertile couples. from your original post, there is no such thing as a normal homo couple. thus homo couples are not normal (diseased) and neither are infertile hetero couples (also diseased). so why is it ok for the one abnormal couple to raise kids, but not the other?
furthermore, id like to see you respond to my point about how there is no mandate from nature that male-female hetero couples raising kids is normal. it has historically been a community effort and gender does not matter at all in terms of parenting.
lastly, you're right... homo couples cannot conceive naturally. but this has nothing to do with ability to raise a child. they are two separate issues. hetero infertile couples cannot conceive naturally either. inability to conceive children does not equal an inability to raise them.
I'm stuck on the fact that by nature's design, a homo couple cannot get pregnant own their own. In contrast a hetero couple can. This has meaning to me.
NC, why do you keep tying conception to childrearing? Nature seperates those concepts for very good reasons.
Nope, not at all.....I think a homo couple is capable of giving a child just as much love and affection as a hetero couple...
Great. Then why did you bring this up? What are you hoping to learn from this discussion? (I'm not being a smartass or trying to bait you, I'm just curious)
Fuck you man. I have a valid point. You don't need to take shots at me becuase you disagree. I don't even have my mind made up about how I feel about gays raising children. That is why I started this thread, to see what others thought and how they rationalized their decision.
I'm stuck on the fact that by nature's design, a homo couple cannot get pregnant own their own. In contrast a hetero couple can. This has meaning to me.
You should respect my feelings becuase I'm not coming on here gay bashing and trashing other peole and their lifestyles.
People like you and comments like this are what is wrong with the MT. You can't even bring a well thought out thread to the forum without being verbally jumped by some punk like you who just wants to take cheap shots....
oh, so it got your attention, man. see, i have been thinking and asking questions but you don't answer them.
again, this "fact" that you're stuck on--by nature's design (whatever that means) a homo couple cannot get pregnant, yet a hetero couple can. so again, do you feel it is as unnatural and wrong for an infertile/impotent couple to raise a kid as you do a gay couple?
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Lesbians or gay men for that matter, can & do raise healthy, non-gay children all the time. Whether or not you think it's un-natural.
What about 2 hetero women who are sisters raising children? What about 2 hetero single Moms who are room-mates raising children? I think you're arguing the point that it being un-natural, the children will be exposed to "gay" lifestyles & that somehow this will influence their sexuality.
If someone is BORN gay, as you yourself believe, how will that exposure make a difference?
And no, homosexuality is not a disease & there are many instances of homosexuality in nature....
how do you define disease? i wish i had a dollar for every time i heard "i'm going back to men". this tells me you're not born with it. especially when i hear "i'm switching to women" by women. and women letting their dogs lick them goes far back in history.
my opinion is do what you want; just don't involve me.
ummmm . . . what?
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
NC, why do you keep tying conception to childrearing? Nature seperates those concepts for very good reasons.
Becuase I feel that it is unfair to a child to be concieved by a lesbian couple. There is an incredible likelyhood that the child will not be gay. And there is the incredible likelyhood that a hetero child does not want to be reared by gay parents.
Concordance rates for homosexuality in 110 male twin pairs. From the higher concordance for identical twin pairs, we can infer that genes influence one's sexual orientation.
Based on Bailey & Pillard, 1991
(David R. Schaffer, 1999)
Notice the keyword being influence, for it to be 100% true the concordance would have to be 100%. Genetics are merely one determinent.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Becuase I feel that it is unfair to a child to be concieved by a lesbian couple. There is an incredible likelyhood that the child will not be gay. And there is the incredible likelyhood that a hetero child does not want to be reared by gay parents.
who gets to choose their parents?
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
oh, so it got your attention, man. see, i have been thinking and asking questions but you don't answer them.
again, this "fact" that you're stuck on--by nature's design (whatever that means) a homo couple cannot get pregnant, yet a hetero couple can. so again, do you feel it is as unnatural and wrong for an infertile/impotent couple to raise a kid as you do a gay couple?
Becuase I feel that it is unfair to a child to be concieved by a lesbian couple. There is an incredible likelyhood that the child will not be gay. And there is the incredible likelyhood that a hetero child does not want to be reared by gay parents.
this will get the troops up in arms!! ... ha!
really - you are just making up these assumptions cuz nothing is based on any fact ...
Life is not fair, but that does not negate that their are still morals in life.
So, you're saying that homosexuality is immoral? Assuming the couple doesn't have sex in front of the child (and ask any person - no one wants to know what their parents do in bed, gay or straight), what is it about the family arrangement that's immoral?
Becuase I feel that it is unfair to a child to be concieved by a lesbian couple. There is an incredible likelyhood that the child will not be gay. And there is the incredible likelyhood that a hetero child does not want to be reared by gay parents.
I didn't like that my parents separated when I was 12, what can I do about that??? Someone's sexuality has no bearing on how well or badly they can raise a child.
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Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
Becuase I feel that it is unfair to a child to be concieved by a lesbian couple. There is an incredible likelyhood that the child will not be gay. And there is the incredible likelyhood that a hetero child does not want to be reared by gay parents.
There is also an incredible liklihood that a hetero or gay child doesn't want to be raised by drug-addicted/alcoholic/violently abusive parents either.....but it happens all the time. I'd call that unfair too.
I think if 2 people are good parents, they'll be able to raise healthy, well rounded children no matter if they're gay or not.
So, you're saying that homosexuality is immoral? Assuming the couple doesn't have sex in front of the child (and ask any person - no one wants to know what their parents do in bed, gay or straight), what is it about the family arrangement that's immoral?
No, I'm not saying that homosexuality is immoral. I'm saying that it is immoral for lesbians to bring a child into the world, when in all likelyhood the child will resent them for it.
No, I'm not saying that homosexuality is immoral. I'm saying that it is immoral for lesbians to bring a child into the world, when in all likelyhood the child will resent them for it.
please, please, please show me a link to back up this statement
The old psychoanalytic view that male homosexuality stems from having a domineering mother and a weak father has received little support (LeVay, 1996)
Nor is there any compelling evidence for the long-standing "seduction hypothesis" - the idea that homosexuals have been lured into the lifestyle by an older same-sex companion. Even the once-popular notion that fathers who reject their sons will make them effeminate and push them toward homosexuality has failed to gain much support (Bell et al., 1981; Green, 1987)
And growing up with a gay or lesbian parent also seems to have little impact on later sexual orientation(Bailey et al., 1995; Golombok & Tasker, 1996)
A more promising hypothesis is that hormonal influences during the prenatal period may be important. For example, women exposed before birth to diethylstilbestoral(DES) or to heightened levels of androgen are more likely than other women to express a bisexual or lesbian orientation, a finding that suggests that high prenatal(before birth) doses of sex hormones may dispose at least some females to homosexuality (Dittman et al., 1992; Meyer-Bahlberg et al., 1995)
However, the fact is that no one yet knows exactly which factors in the prenatal or postnatal (after birth) environments contribute, along with genes, to a homosexual orientation (Berenbaum & Snyder, 1995; Paul, 1993)
(David R, Shaffer 1999)
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
my opinion is do what you want; just don't involve me.
Fuck you man. I have a valid point. You don't need to take shots at me becuase you disagree. I don't even have my mind made up about how I feel about gays raising children. That is why I started this thread, to see what others thought and how they rationalized their decision.
I'm stuck on the fact that by nature's design, a homo couple cannot get pregnant own their own. In contrast a hetero couple can. This has meaning to me.
You should respect my feelings becuase I'm not coming on here gay bashing and trashing other peole and their lifestyles.
People like you and comments like this are what is wrong with the MT. You can't even bring a well thought out thread to the forum without being verbally jumped by some punk like you who just wants to take cheap shots....
:eek:
Nope, not at all.....I think a homo couple is capable of giving a child just as much love and affection as a hetero couple...
but your entire argument is based on the fact that homo couples are simply not normal, they are an aberration from nature, just like infertile couples. from your original post, there is no such thing as a normal homo couple. thus homo couples are not normal (diseased) and neither are infertile hetero couples (also diseased). so why is it ok for the one abnormal couple to raise kids, but not the other?
furthermore, id like to see you respond to my point about how there is no mandate from nature that male-female hetero couples raising kids is normal. it has historically been a community effort and gender does not matter at all in terms of parenting.
lastly, you're right... homo couples cannot conceive naturally. but this has nothing to do with ability to raise a child. they are two separate issues. hetero infertile couples cannot conceive naturally either. inability to conceive children does not equal an inability to raise them.
NC, why do you keep tying conception to childrearing? Nature seperates those concepts for very good reasons.
oh, so it got your attention, man. see, i have been thinking and asking questions but you don't answer them.
again, this "fact" that you're stuck on--by nature's design (whatever that means) a homo couple cannot get pregnant, yet a hetero couple can. so again, do you feel it is as unnatural and wrong for an infertile/impotent couple to raise a kid as you do a gay couple?
cross the river to the eastside
Lesbians or gay men for that matter, can & do raise healthy, non-gay children all the time. Whether or not you think it's un-natural.
What about 2 hetero women who are sisters raising children? What about 2 hetero single Moms who are room-mates raising children? I think you're arguing the point that it being un-natural, the children will be exposed to "gay" lifestyles & that somehow this will influence their sexuality.
If someone is BORN gay, as you yourself believe, how will that exposure make a difference?
And no, homosexuality is not a disease & there are many instances of homosexuality in nature....
ummmm . . . what?
cross the river to the eastside
Becuase I feel that it is unfair to a child to be concieved by a lesbian couple. There is an incredible likelyhood that the child will not be gay. And there is the incredible likelyhood that a hetero child does not want to be reared by gay parents.
Fraternal Twins: 23%
(Roughly)
Concordance rates for homosexuality in 110 male twin pairs. From the higher concordance for identical twin pairs, we can infer that genes influence one's sexual orientation.
Based on Bailey & Pillard, 1991
(David R. Schaffer, 1999)
Notice the keyword being influence, for it to be 100% true the concordance would have to be 100%. Genetics are merely one determinent.
who gets to choose their parents?
cross the river to the eastside
I give up, you're just not mentally capable...
gay men are disgusting and gay women are beautiful
say what you will about my opinion its how i feel
dreamer in my dream
we got the guns
i love you,but im..............callin out.........callin out
this will get the troops up in arms!! ... ha!
really - you are just making up these assumptions cuz nothing is based on any fact ...
Life is not fair, but that does not negate that their are still morals in life.
are you a guy?
cross the river to the eastside
careful polaris
cross the river to the eastside
dreamer in my dream
we got the guns
i love you,but im..............callin out.........callin out
I didn't like that my parents separated when I was 12, what can I do about that??? Someone's sexuality has no bearing on how well or badly they can raise a child.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
thanks for answering.
cross the river to the eastside
There is also an incredible liklihood that a hetero or gay child doesn't want to be raised by drug-addicted/alcoholic/violently abusive parents either.....but it happens all the time. I'd call that unfair too.
I think if 2 people are good parents, they'll be able to raise healthy, well rounded children no matter if they're gay or not.
No, I'm not saying that homosexuality is immoral. I'm saying that it is immoral for lesbians to bring a child into the world, when in all likelyhood the child will resent them for it.
Nor is there any compelling evidence for the long-standing "seduction hypothesis" - the idea that homosexuals have been lured into the lifestyle by an older same-sex companion. Even the once-popular notion that fathers who reject their sons will make them effeminate and push them toward homosexuality has failed to gain much support (Bell et al., 1981; Green, 1987)
And growing up with a gay or lesbian parent also seems to have little impact on later sexual orientation(Bailey et al., 1995; Golombok & Tasker, 1996)
A more promising hypothesis is that hormonal influences during the prenatal period may be important. For example, women exposed before birth to diethylstilbestoral(DES) or to heightened levels of androgen are more likely than other women to express a bisexual or lesbian orientation, a finding that suggests that high prenatal(before birth) doses of sex hormones may dispose at least some females to homosexuality (Dittman et al., 1992; Meyer-Bahlberg et al., 1995)
However, the fact is that no one yet knows exactly which factors in the prenatal or postnatal (after birth) environments contribute, along with genes, to a homosexual orientation (Berenbaum & Snyder, 1995; Paul, 1993)
(David R, Shaffer 1999)