Ankle-biting Democrats

Cosmo

Last Exodus wrote:

and your option would be RUN FAST SO IRAN CAN CONTROL REGION?

...
Actually, I believe we NEED to stay because we basically bought the thing when we broke it. I believe we CAN actually succeed... IF... we can get the rest of the world to kick in. It's a tough sell... but, we can start by admitting our wrongdoings and conceding that they were right in their protest of our actions.
From there, we can ask that our NATO Allies help us by taking on the less dangerous tasks, such as border security and security over Iraq's oil assets as well as the trainning of Iraqi security forces, including their officers and logistics support infrastructure. Ask that the neighboring Arab nations kick in and help train the Iraqi police. Ask the European and Pacific Rim nations to do the rebuilding, once security is established. Put the Iraqis to work... doing the actual labor, driving the trucks, manning the bulldozers.
We have to bankroll the whole thing because this is our mess... our responsibility and we are accountable.
It is possible... but, not probable. We will never admit our fault and will always take the weasle's approach of making excuses for our mistakes, instead of owning up to them. We're supposed to be Americans... maybe we should start acting like it.

eden '07

I think you should get back to us when youve thought this through more Cosmo... jk....brilliant plan actually, now why cant one of the dumbasses in office think of a concrete plan to backpeddle us out of this mess.

Last Exodus

Cosmo wrote:

...
Actually, I believe we NEED to stay because we basically bought the thing when we broke it. I believe we CAN actually succeed... IF... we can get the rest of the world to kick in. It's a tough sell... but, we can start by admitting our wrongdoings and conceding that they were right in their protest of our actions.
From there, we can ask that our NATO Allies help us by taking on the less dangerous tasks, such as border security and security over Iraq's oil assets as well as the trainning of Iraqi security forces, including their officers and logistics support infrastructure. Ask that the neighboring Arab nations kick in and help train the Iraqi police. Ask the European and Pacific Rim nations to do the rebuilding, once security is established. Put the Iraqis to work... doing the actual labor, driving the trucks, manning the bulldozers.
We have to bankroll the whole thing because this is our mess... our responsibility and we are accountable.
It is possible... but, not probable. We will never admit our fault and will always take the weasle's approach of making excuses for our mistakes, instead of owning up to them. We're supposed to be Americans... maybe we should start acting like it.

agreed and i stated the same argument on another site

Kann

Last Exodus wrote:

of course it's about oil. and if you think for a second that the United States is the only one who needs arabian oil you are kidding yourself. unlike Europe, this country does have at least some ability to produce oil. not enough. but countries like FRANCE, Germany, Japan, Australia, and on and on, also depend on Persian Gulf oil.

I did not say this was a good thing. I think we need to kick the oil habit asap. But it's not happening tommorow. This is called real politik. Or in other words, it sucks, but that's life.

The countries that refused to go to war (France and Germany) certainly had selfish reasons no to do so Bundy. But nonetheless they did not take a part in a war based on nothing and there are no bad reasons for that. If you want to bash on France's need for oil I suggest you look in Africa, you'll find much better arguments than Iraqi Oil.
I think today though America should be getting a little help from it's friends to get out of Iraq in a realistic manner. I'm surprised nothing was asked to the allies.

Abuskedti

NCfan wrote:

Everyone concedes that Iraq has not turned out like we hoped it would. But it's painfully obvious that Democrats (and some Republicans) are now emersed in political posturing based on opinion polls.

They know the majority of Americans oppose the war, and so they are trying to score political points with their constituents by demanding that the war come to an end.

But I haven't heard a cohesive plan from anybody... You hear I'm in favor of a "phased withdrawal" or "bring all the troops home"... but do the problems in the Middle East end there? Of course they don't, which begs the question - then what?

Bring the troops home, and then what? Phased withdrawal and then what?
Nobody wants to talk about what's to come afterwards. Isn't this a bit short-sighted?

Political posturing must be eliminated.. for example the political posturing of your post.

For all of his problems and downfalls, Bush's strategy is the only one that deals with the long term. His plan might have a small chance of success, but at least it offers a long term solution if it does prevail. Nobody else can say that, mostly becuase it is something nobody else wants to talk about.

I have all the respect in the world for somebody who doesn't like this war. But I will never understand why people would want us to leave now and abandon a nation in need. If anything, we need to buck up and do the dirty work that needs to be done to secure that country. It isn't beyond our capabilites - it's just beyond our will, which is pathetic.

all we have to do after that is negotiate with all parties with a willingness to help and a willingness to understand. Of course, for us, that will be much more difficult than invading or withdrawing.

Lerxst1992

The Iraq war is long gone, as are the commenters on this page from amt, however the title is perfect for around here.


endless are the cries about the evil president, Epstein, Colbert, Hamas, AOC gonna save us, yet voters before Harris was gifted the nomination were leaving the party in droves and heading to his. Wonder why.



…
” Democrats are sounding the alarm on new data showing they are losing voters to Republicans across the country. 

A devastating New York Times report Wednesday showed that of the 30 states that maintain voter registration records by political party, Democrats fell behind Republicans in all of them between the 2020 and 2024 elections. 

In total, Republicans added up to 4.5 million voters compared to Democrats, creating a huge hole that could set Democrats back for years.

“I think it should be an alarm” for the party, Democratic strategist Eddie Vale. “I think it’s a real problem.”

The data comes as Democrats struggle to figure out how to get out of the political wilderness after losing the presidency to Donald Trump and control of both chambers of Congress to the GOP. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5462604-voter-registration-shift-democrats/

Tim Simmons

Agreed. What’s the solution? 

Lerxst1992

Focus on communicating issues that will improve the lives of voters. “ cries about the evil president, Epstein, Colbert, Hamas, AOC gonna save us…” just is not only not doing the job, it turns off voters.


imo they need to start rallying around someone like Newsom, and have a bullet point plan that’s easy to digest and hop on a train or bus and get to the edges of the rural areas that are gone for the ads and try to shrink R territory. And include voter registration drives. The bolded part is just turning off those outside the base.

Tim Simmons

I think your problem is you conflate what liberal and progressive people say ONLINE with what the official party and those that run it represents.

you are correct. The Democratic Party needs to figure their shit out and stand for something. And this polling should be concerning. 

But make no mistake, just because people don’t like Dems, they aren’t flocking to Trump or conservatism. Trump and GoP policies are deeply unpopular. Yes, Democrats need to offer something to America. But part of the perceived inaction is figuring out what gains traction. We’re only 8ish months into this admin. Another big election season is a year and a half away and another presidential election cycle won’t really start for bit over 2. Unfortunately, it takes time to see what works. 

gimmesometruth27

holy thread bump. 18 years. interesting. 

Lerxst1992

Tim Simmons said:

I think your problem is you conflate what liberal and progressive people say ONLINE with what the official party and those that run it represents.

you are correct. The Democratic Party needs to figure their shit out and stand for something. And this polling should be concerning. 

But make no mistake, just because people don’t like Dems, they aren’t flocking to Trump or conservatism. Trump and GoP policies are deeply unpopular. Yes, Democrats need to offer something to America. But part of the perceived inaction is figuring out what gains traction. We’re only 8ish months into this admin. Another big election season is a year and a half away and another presidential election cycle won’t really start for bit over 2. Unfortunately, it takes time to see what works. 

just watched the end of last nights Maher. He is disputing your point entirely. DT is now going to reclassify pot as category 3, he won tipped  employees, crypto, black celebrities and many other categories, mentioned in the below  video…No dems, especially none here, would even give this a listen let alone consider his spot on points as to why Dems have lost net five million registered voters, and that’s BEFORE his second term began.

all we get here and in many dem circles is the ongoing circle jerk…fvckfce orange clown brigade, crying about the bolded stuff in my prior post that no one outside the base cares about. Remember I watch Nicole Wallace and morning Joe almost every day. Nicole is fast becoming unwatchable 

meanwhile the Rs go after micro targets, and win voters for good. And he stole the stoner crowd from Dems…


https://youtu.be/XL-9SyRPlh4?si=dIgdx7aXbn61VeXT

Tim Simmons

I agree. Lots of that stuff is what Dems should be doing. Appealing to voters desires is something they should be doing. 

But the other stuff is bad and needs to be pointed out. You offer voters that shit AND you say that stuff is bad, suddenly you look like the better candidate. 

Tim Simmons

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

I think your problem is you conflate what liberal and progressive people say ONLINE with what the official party and those that run it represents.

you are correct. The Democratic Party needs to figure their shit out and stand for something. And this polling should be concerning. 

But make no mistake, just because people don’t like Dems, they aren’t flocking to Trump or conservatism. Trump and GoP policies are deeply unpopular. Yes, Democrats need to offer something to America. But part of the perceived inaction is figuring out what gains traction. We’re only 8ish months into this admin. Another big election season is a year and a half away and another presidential election cycle won’t really start for bit over 2. Unfortunately, it takes time to see what works. 

all we get here and in many dem circles is the ongoing circle jerk…fvckfce orange clown brigade, crying about the bolded stuff in my prior post that no one outside the base cares about. 

Politicians are saying that or people who are online? Because one group runs the actual party and the other group are just people with interests. Which is my point. 

josevolution

I don’t believe anyone outside of the 6 or 7 folks here see me calling fuckface fuckface 👋
fools will keep voting for Republicans that’s on them! Just because 5 7 10 million voters moved over to republicans or what Bill Maher has to say doesn’t change anything for me, I’ll never ever vote for a republican 

Tim Simmons

I think the point is something is alienating those voters to not want to caucus with the Dems. And I get how you can conclude that when you have consulting firms out here saying "don't say these 50 words when communicating". 

All the hand wringing about these voters moving away is futile. They can just as easily come back. Dem leader ship needs to find a way to connect with them.

Tim Simmons

but this ain't it either (Jefferies approach, not Bouie's point).

Tim Simmons

Pretty good article that brings up lots of points Lerx has touched on over the past few months.


https://inthesetimes.com/article/democratic-party-elites-harris-trump-loss

Lerxst1992

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

I think your problem is you conflate what liberal and progressive people say ONLINE with what the official party and those that run it represents.

you are correct. The Democratic Party needs to figure their shit out and stand for something. And this polling should be concerning. 

But make no mistake, just because people don’t like Dems, they aren’t flocking to Trump or conservatism. Trump and GoP policies are deeply unpopular. Yes, Democrats need to offer something to America. But part of the perceived inaction is figuring out what gains traction. We’re only 8ish months into this admin. Another big election season is a year and a half away and another presidential election cycle won’t really start for bit over 2. Unfortunately, it takes time to see what works. 

all we get here and in many dem circles is the ongoing circle jerk…fvckfce orange clown brigade, crying about the bolded stuff in my prior post that no one outside the base cares about. 

Politicians are saying that or people who are online? Because one group runs the actual party and the other group are just people with interests. Which is my point. 

The party has significant influence on how regular liberal people think. They promote fairly new concepts, such as gender identity or dei, and are not agreeable whatsoever with any differing views within the party. You see that type mindspeak around here. 

We see the results of this in liberal forums such as this, and quite frankly places like this are becoming further and further from American mainstream. And we see the wider results in recent voter registrations.

Lerxst1992

Tim Simmons said:

Pretty good article that brings up lots of points Lerx has touched on over the past few months.


https://inthesetimes.com/article/democratic-party-elites-harris-trump-loss

Article reminds me of another example…pronouns. I recall sometime during the Biden administration, seeing them on business contact emails and getting frustrated that there is going to be some kind of memory required of everyone’s pronouns. There was a lot of weird stuff going on those four years, that me as a dem shrugged off.


and I’ll go back to inflation since they brought it up in that article . It started with the supply chain breaking during covid, when dt was president, and was solved by Biden. The problem was, by 2024, inflation cooled but prices were already high. The dems should have invested a ton on money, starting in 2023, to communicate this with well prepared advertising. 

But the party just didn’t grasp this concept. And they had other priorities.

Go Beavers

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

I think your problem is you conflate what liberal and progressive people say ONLINE with what the official party and those that run it represents.

you are correct. The Democratic Party needs to figure their shit out and stand for something. And this polling should be concerning. 

But make no mistake, just because people don’t like Dems, they aren’t flocking to Trump or conservatism. Trump and GoP policies are deeply unpopular. Yes, Democrats need to offer something to America. But part of the perceived inaction is figuring out what gains traction. We’re only 8ish months into this admin. Another big election season is a year and a half away and another presidential election cycle won’t really start for bit over 2. Unfortunately, it takes time to see what works. 

all we get here and in many dem circles is the ongoing circle jerk…fvckfce orange clown brigade, crying about the bolded stuff in my prior post that no one outside the base cares about. 

Politicians are saying that or people who are online? Because one group runs the actual party and the other group are just people with interests. Which is my point. 

The party has significant influence on how regular liberal people think. They promote fairly new concepts, such as gender identity or dei, and are not agreeable whatsoever with any differing views within the party. You see that type mindspeak around here. 

We see the results of this in liberal forums such as this, and quite frankly places like this are becoming further and further from American mainstream. And we see the wider results in recent voter registrations.

By referring to gender identity and dei as a new concept shows how the right can control the narrative by fabricating threats for their culture war.