Ankle-biting Democrats

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  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you enjoy hearing yourself talk dont you?
    Everyone enjoys hearing Cosmo talk! He makes sense, and he's got a fabulous way with words :D
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you enjoy hearing yourself talk dont you?
    ...
    Just trying to figure out HOW you think your Victory is going to happen.. that's all. HOW is a Shi'ite majority... an overwhelming and growing Shi'ite majority going to look like the Sunni style Kuwait or Jordan? How is that going to happen.
    From your response... it sounds like HOPE is your solution. You HOPE they end up like this. Apparently, from your response... that seems to be all you can muster. You HOPE it works out. Great plan, bud.
    I'm trying to figure out what it's going to look like based upon today's realities and probable outcomes.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jlew24asu wrote:
    with the Iraqi military

    Good, then we won't have to be there.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    how long did you think it will take 90 days? its done when its done

    Not 90 days but c'mon, 4 years???? That makes no sense. People get college degrees in four years and you're saying these guys can't be trained to protect themselves in this time? It's just a scapegoat issue to prolong our presense in Iraq indefinitely.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I thought you wanted to "fund" a solution

    I'd like to see funding spent on stability not more war. War is the opposite of stable, my friend.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Just trying to figure out HOW you think your Victory is going to happen.. that's all. HOW is a Shi'ite majority... an overwhelming and growing Shi'ite majority going to look like the Sunni style Kuwait or Jordan? How is that going to happen.
    From your response... it sounds like HOPE is your solution. You HOPE they end up like this. Apparently, from your response... that seems to be all you can muster. You HOPE it works out. Great plan, bud.
    I'm trying to figure out what it's going to look like based upon today's realities and probable outcomes.

    I hope your plan works out buddy boy
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Good, then we won't have to be there.
    yes!
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Not 90 days but c'mon, 4 years???? That makes no sense. People get college degrees in four years and you're saying these guys can't be trained to protect themselves in this time? It's just a scapegoat issue to prolong our presense in Iraq indefinitely.
    scapegoat issue? so we are stalling?

    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I'd like to see funding spent on stability not more war. War is the opposite of stable, my friend.
    great. what is the difference between spending money on stability or spending it on war?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    hippiemom wrote:
    Everyone enjoys hearing Cosmo talk! He makes sense, and he's got a fabulous way with words :D
    yea but i'm much better looking :)
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jlew24asu wrote:
    great. what is the difference between spending money on stability or spending it on war?

    Fixing the place, making it livable for the Iraqi people. It's rubble and chaos now. We're shooting at these people left and right because we can't tell who the enemy is. Bombing the place any further will not bring much stability.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Fixing the place, making it livable for the Iraqi people. It's rubble and chaos now. We're shooting at these people left and right because we can't tell who the enemy is. Bombing the place any further will not bring much stability.
    now i'm confused. I thought you wanted all contractors out.

    whos going to fix the place? Iraqis cant do it by themselves.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jlew24asu wrote:
    now i'm confused. I thought you wanted all contractors out.

    whos going to fix the place? Iraqis cant do it by themselves.

    I believe there are more honest and capable options out there.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I believe there are more honest and capable options out there.

    such as
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    jlew24asu wrote:
    now i'm confused. I thought you wanted all contractors out.

    whos going to fix the place? Iraqis cant do it by themselves.
    If they can't fix the place, how are they going to secure it?

    Why not fund start-up Iraqi construction companies? Then, they get their country rebuilt, they get jobs, incomes, homes, and perhaps some private generational wealth. If it's done by American companies, the wealth mostly comes here. I mean, I like money as much as the next guy, but don't you think that for the stability of Iraq, some local companies would help?
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jlew24asu wrote:
    such as

    It's not my job to go out and find them. What do you think I do, call people up and interview them and then send in my recommendations? I'm not an elected official jlew, no matter how highly you may regard me.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    RainDog wrote:
    If they can't fix the place, how are they going to secure it?
    its easier to be trained as a police officer then a structural engineer.
    RainDog wrote:
    Why not fund start-up Iraqi construction companies? Then, they get their country rebuilt, they get jobs, incomes, homes, and perhaps some private generational wealth. If it's done by American companies, the wealth mostly comes here. I mean, I like money as much as the next guy, but don't you think that for the stability of Iraq, some local companies would help?

    great idea. so you want the american government to fund Iraqi start up companies? how bout the Iraqi government do that instead.
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    RainDog wrote:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_De-Escalation_Act

    This plan addresses most of what you bring up.
    This plan is a disaster.....legislating a war doesn't work. All the enemy has to do is hold out until the time period has run, and then declare victory. All this plan will do is cause the death of many more Americans. Whether we like it or not, we have determined enemies in Iraq, not all of which are Iraqi. There are substantial al qaeda elements there still. You dont think that if this legislation passes, or is even threatened, that it won't cause them to try to up the ante by killing more Americans? Cmon now. Dont be that naive. Cutting and running will kill any hope of maitaining any amount of prestige in the region, and we still have allies there who need us to stabilize Iraq and not cede it to Iran. Thats just the playing field as it exists. It sucks. But thats all we got
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    RainDog wrote:
    If they can't fix the place, how are they going to secure it?

    Why not fund start-up Iraqi construction companies? Then, they get their country rebuilt, they get jobs, incomes, homes, and perhaps some private generational wealth. If it's done by American companies, the wealth mostly comes here. I mean, I like money as much as the next guy, but don't you think that for the stability of Iraq, some local companies would help?

    I worry about even saying that because they already think we have to train their police and military 4 years plus +. It might be another decade of stalling if we wait on getting these set up. But I do think it's a good idea and works well with the get out now and let them clean up our mess plan. I can only see us causing more damage the longer we stay.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    It's not my job to go out and find them. What do you think I do, call people up and interview them and then send in my recommendations? I'm not an elected official jlew, no matter how highly you may regard me.

    hehe. well you seem to believe someone can do a better job then the US at rebuilding. I disagree.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jlew24asu wrote:
    hehe. well you seem to believe someone can do a better job then the US at rebuilding. I disagree.


    That much is obvious.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Last Exodus
    Last Exodus Posts: 782
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I worry about even saying that because they already think we have to train their police and military 4 years plus +. It might be another decade of stalling if we wait on getting these set up. But I do think it's a good idea and works well with the get out now and let them clean up our mess plan. I can only see us causing more damage the longer we stay.

    Cutting and running in the Gulf could very well mean de-stabilizing the entire global economy. What happens if we just slip out in a year or so, and Iran comes into Iraq and grabs the Iraqi oil fields and closes the Staights of Hormuz? We'd just have to come back again. We'd have no choice.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    That much is obvious.

    just wish you can back up your statements instead of ending them with "america sucks can you see that"
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I hope your plan works out buddy boy
    ...
    That's not my plan... that's just a probable outcome scenario based upon the realities that are inplay today.
    My plan would be to drawn down troops from Iraq to Afghanistan after we set up Afghanistan (and/or NATO Ally Turkey) as the forward base of operations, not Iraq. From that vantage point, we would still be able to project our military power, but without direct involvement in Iraq itself.
    We are currently trainning Iraqis as foot soldiers, but what about logistic support, command and control, medical support and weapons appropriations? I would ask out NATO Allies to help us with this and ween ourselves out of this burden and train he Iraqis to take over these tasks as well and the basic soldiering. We also need to address air support. Right now, it is all U.S. air power over there. At some point, the Iraqis will need air support to become self-reliant.
    We need to get the Arab Nations to take ownership of their neighborhood, also. If they do not want refugees fleeing a Civil War flowing across their borders, they had better get involved with stabilizing the place. That would be my arguement to them.
    Turn over all reconstruction to the Iraqis. Get the foriegn contractors out of there. Give the contracts to Arab companies and hire Iraqi men to do the work.
    And if Syria and Iran can broker peace over there... who are we to stop them?
    ...
    You still have no idea what to do or what can be done... we knew going in what the probable outcome would be... an Iran/Iraq Shi'ite block... but, we pinned all of our hopes on a roses and kisses for our troops scenario. You often say, "We are there... let's win it". but never try to offer anything but, words like Victory and Stability. I'm just pointing out that stability may not equate to victory based upon your interpretations of which each term means.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!

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