John McCain for President

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  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    NMyTree wrote:
    John McCain for President

    Just this title alone should scare the fuckin' hell out of every rational, mature, progressive-thinking american.

    Just the thought of it sends chills up my spine and give me the heebeegeebees.


    lol...so true...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    I absolutely love that Hillary and Obama supporters are criticizing McCain supporters. You are all basically voting for the same bag of shit. I'm sure there are differences among them and each one will run the country in a different manner and in a different direction but none of them will do what is absolutely necessary to right this country. They will do what is best for their financial backers and their party and the rest of us will just sit their and smile at the meager table scraps that get thrown our way.

    you are very passionate about your opinion's and thats fine. but that are just that. opinions. none of these candidates will do whats necessary for this country.......according to you......according to your beliefs.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    you are very passionate about your opinion's and thats fine. but that are just that. opinions. none of these candidates will do whats necessary for this country.......according to you......according to your beliefs.

    You are right that this just my opinion but I'm not basing this on just my beliefs and opinions. Look at the past administrations that have held office during our lifetime. Not one of those administrations, wether they where Rep or Dem, reduced the size of the federal government. In fact they increased the size and scope. I pretty much believe that our government should have limited power as stated and written in the Constitution. That to me is the single greatest issue. Once that is accomplished other major issue can be solved.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    You are right that this just my opinion but I'm not basing this on just my beliefs and opinions. Look at the past administrations that have held office during our lifetime. Not one of those administrations, wether they where Rep or Dem, reduced the size of the federal government. In fact they increased the size and scope. I pretty much believe that our government should have limited power as stated and written in the Constitution. That to me is the single greatest issue. Once that is accomplished other major issue can be solved.

    unfortunately (not so much me) there are many americans who want big government. their view is that more government solves the "major problems"
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    NMyTree wrote:
    John McCain for President

    Just this title alone should scare the fuckin' hell out of every rational, mature, progressive-thinking american.

    Just the thought of it sends chills up my spine and give me the heebeegeebees.

    Yeah, but Hillary for President has me doing cartwheels ...
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    callen wrote:
    yea but all the repub's have to do is play "God Bless the USA" , talk about pride, winning the war, not let the evil terrorists win and the members of the herd will vote for him.

    Along the same lines...another thread topic was 28% of Hilliary supporters won't vote for Obama....think allot of these voters will indeed vote for McCain...lots of white folk that would never vote for a black muslim. Everytime I hear folks from Pennsylvania talk of why they're backing Hilliary I get chills......"I'm still not comfortable on the religion thing"

    And everytime I hear them talk about why they're voting for Obama, I have to piss myself. "Because .... um .... he ... because ... uhhhhhh ...."

    Face it, we're all fucked.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    unfortunately (not so much me) there are many americans who want big government. their view is that more government solves the "major problems"

    That is true, but what they fail to realize is that with bigger government comes less control and say in what that government does.

    It's pretty easy to see that we have the most say in government when it is on the local, and even state level. If most of the responsibilities fell to these levels, instead of on a federal level, we would have more say in how our are tax dollars are spent and how government funded programs where managed.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    That is true, but what they fail to realize is that with bigger government comes less control and say in what that government does.

    It's pretty easy to see that we have the most say in government when it is on the local, and even state level. If most of the responsibilities fell to these levels, instead of on a federal level, we would have more say in how our are tax dollars are spent and how government funded programs where managed.

    I see your point I do. but who is more in line with your ideals mccain or hilary/obama? I understand your answer is neither but isn't the liberal mindset much much farther from your ideals then mccain? in that case, why not try and vote to avoid them getting elected. I know everyone hates the lesser of 2 evils thing but it is what it is.

    take me for example. I'm not 100% on board with mccain's foreign policy but I certainly do not want my taxes raised and have more government in my life. so i'm voting mccain.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    I see your point I do. but who is more in line with your ideals mccain or hilary/obama? I understand your answer is neither but isn't the liberal mindset much much farther from your ideals then mccain? in that case, why not try and vote to avoid them getting elected. I know everyone hates the lesser of 2 evils thing but it is what it is.

    take me for example. I'm not 100% on board with mccain's foreign policy but I certainly do not want my taxes raised and have more government in my life. so i'm voting mccain.

    Simple, because I don't believe in voting in the lesser of two evils. I believe in voting for the candidate I believe in. Also McCain is no where near a representative of my ideals. He may be about a mile closer than the other two but he is still light years away from where I stand. Lastly I refuse to just fall in and simply give up and vote for the lesser of two evils. I strongly believe that if all the disgruntled voters in this country simply starting finding an alternative candidate and supported that candidate the two party monopoly would start to show cracks. While our 3rd party candidates may not win a strong enough showing would definitely send a message to the Dems and Reps in Washington that their position is not safe.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    mammasan wrote:
    Simple, because I don't believe in voting in the lesser of two evils. I believe in voting for the candidate I believe in.

    Bravo
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    Simple, because I don't believe in voting in the lesser of two evils. I believe in voting for the candidate I believe in. Also McCain is no where near a representative of my ideals. He may be about a mile closer than the other two but he is still light years away from where I stand. Lastly I refuse to just fall in and simply give up and vote for the lesser of two evils. I strongly believe that if all the disgruntled voters in this country simply starting finding an alternative candidate and supported that candidate the two party monopoly would start to show cracks. While our 3rd party candidates may not win a strong enough showing would definitely send a message to the Dems and Reps in Washington that their position is not safe.

    thats fine. I think the main reason why third party candidates don't get very far is because not many people agree with them. and for me, I like ron paul but quickly stopped supporting him when I say him in the debates.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    thats fine. I think the main reason why third party candidates don't get very far is because not many people agree with them. and for me, I like ron paul but quickly stopped supporting him when I say him in the debates.

    What was it about his performance at the debates that put you off?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    thats fine. I think the main reason why third party candidates don't get very far is because not many people agree with them. and for me, I like ron paul but quickly stopped supporting him when I say him in the debates.

    I believe the reason why third party candidates don't get very far is because they are not allowed to. Ron Paul stated that the only reason he ran as a Republican was because as an independent much of his time, energy, and funding would have been dedicated to trying to get his name on the ballots of all 50 states. The way our electoral process is set up it makes it extremely hard to run an effective third party campaign unless you are independently wealthy, example Ross Perot. The Reps and Dems have a monopoly on government.

    Let me drop a question. If you where hiring a nanny and only two candidates applied. One had a prison record and the other has made several trips to rehab for a drug problem. Would you simply hire the one you perceived to be the lesser of two evils or would you continue to search for a candidate you felt was qualified for the job.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    What was it about his performance at the debates that put you off?

    all he did was bitch about the fed and the dollar and Iraq and this and that. I felt like he was my 88 year old woman neighbor scolding me for walking on her grass. I don't care to hear constant bitching. I want suggestions, proposals, answers. I got nothing but complaining. and secondly, his core followers really bug the crap out of me. (not you) they acted like anarchists.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    I believe the reason why third party candidates don't get very far is because they are not allowed to. Ron Paul stated that the only reason he ran as a Republican was because as an independent much of his time, energy, and funding would have been dedicated to trying to get his name on the ballots of all 50 states. The way our electoral process is set up it makes it extremely hard to run an effective third party campaign unless you are independently wealthy, example Ross Perot. The Reps and Dems have a monopoly on government.

    thats just the thing. RP got shitloads of camera time and press coverage but never got more then 5% of the vote in any primary.

    mammasan wrote:
    Let me drop a question. If you where hiring a nanny and only two candidates applied. One had a prison record and the other has made several trips to rehab for a drug problem. Would you simply hire the one you perceived to be the lesser of two evils or would you continue to search for a candidate you felt was qualified for the job.

    sadly I (we) don't have the luxury when selecting a president. while selecting a nanny I do.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    thats just the thing. RP got shitloads of camera time and press coverage but never got more then 5% of the vote in any primary.




    sadly I (we) don't have the luxury when selecting a president. while selecting a nanny I do.

    But we do we just choose not to.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    thats just the thing. RP got shitloads of camera time and press coverage but never got more then 5% of the vote in any primary.

    Ron Paul had ideas for everything he complained about. Answers that his opponents didn't have. He also addressed issues that his opponents simply neglected such as the Fed, our foreign policy. He made the most sense out of any candidate.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    unfortunately (not so much me) there are many americans who want big government. their view is that more government solves the "major problems"

    You do realize that the size of the federal government has increased 44% under George W. Bush, right? You know, the guy whose policies your boy John McCain is sprinting towards.
    E8toX.gif

    http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    ledvedderman wrote:
    You do realize that the size of the federal government has increased 44% under George W. Bush, right? You know, the guy whose policies your boy John McCain is sprinting towards.

    yes I know. bush sucks. and I think this is the most common misconception about mccain. he is not "sprinting towards" bush policies. hell, it was you who called him a "liberal conservative"
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    on a side note, it sure is refreshing to debate/discuss this with guys like mammason, ledveder, farfrom......finally some respectful level headed people on here. we may not agree on much but at least we can discuss these issues like adults.

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