"The problem with being committed, especially falsely!, against one's will is it's a huge power thing. It's an abuse of power. "
I mean the problem with being committed falsely is a huge power thing. If it were true that I'd taken an overdose two times, I completely can understand, and at this time agree with the need to commit me were I not to seek treatment on my own, or recognize a need to do so.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Likewise I must add that it is an unfortunate truth that there are SOME truly incompetent doctors out there. The idea of "quacks" is not a falacy. In this regard, it is very important that if a patient does not feel comfortable with their doctor, that they find another. If however a person is constantly jumping from one practice to the next, the question must be raised as to the what the real problem is.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
I didn't start with the petty insults. I've never had a problem with you. I do think your posts nowadays are 99.9% boring googled BS. But when I do dare to bother with them, I've been finding, lately, it seems as though you are trying to come across as a sort of self-appointed messiah of science on this board. You can no more speak for science than Jerry Falwell can speak for God, and it makes you both look ridiculous.
So, keep on making an ass out of yourself. No skin off my back.
While your brain is busting, I'm readjusting
My synaptic weights, to represent, the best hypothesis, to date
Sorry, just a little neurophilosophical rap. It's a work in progress.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
This is the attitude that I simply do not understand from you and other "groups" or "advocates" who run with such a concept.
In the field of mental health, the goal of the practitioner is to get the patient to a point of self sufficency. Not a single colleague that I have ever known or read has promoted otherwise. It simply isn't the concept of Psychiatry as a whole to "keep the patient down."
The most important ethical qualities of medicine is "first do no harm". So to accuse doctors of the mind as getting their jollies by making zombies or victims of their patients is ludicrious.
The only time these comments that you fear are uttered is when the patient is indeed displaying such qualities.
I did not "accuse" anything, and was clear that it's not about blame. As I said it's the dark side or the underbelly of the profession, and of people. On the conscious surface of awareness, people believe they are doing others a favour. We cannot see where we can use growth until it is presented to us. I'm well aware professionals are not deliberately doing this. Throughout this thread, on any point I've made, rather than consider error on behalf of the professional, you've pointed to the problem existing in the patient. Even though you admit psychiatry is in it's infancy, it seems you cannot acknowledge how it falters and errs. Psychiatry has inherent to it's system the existence of a convenient scapegoat in the mentally ill.
I will give another example of how psychiatry falters due to it's limitations that are not inherent to the individual. And my psychiatrist was a pretty good one. We are on a band message board, and I can't imagine that there is one person on here that hasn't been quite influenced by Pearl Jam's music and some of the profound messages they've shared with us. During one period of addressing the numerous life abuses I'd endured, by talking them out with my boyfriend, I found that at the time, I was also being inspired by some songs and the powerful messages in them (not Pearl Jam at the time, however). I told this to my psychiatrist. He looked disturbed, and prescribed me more meds. Because psychiatry cannot fathom issues of inspiration, it was assumed that my higher experiences of the human condition was pathological, and could be medicated away.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I did not "accuse" anything, and was clear that it's not about blame. As I said it's the dark side or the underbelly of the profession, and of people. On the conscious surface of awareness, people believe they are doing others a favour. We cannot see where we can use growth until it is presented to us. I'm well aware professionals are not deliberately doing this. Throughout this thread, on any point I've made, rather than consider error on behalf of the professional, you've pointed to the problem existing in the patient. Even though you admit psychiatry is in it's infancy, it seems you cannot acknowledge how it falters and errs. Psychiatry has inherent to it's system the existence of a convenient scapegoat in the mentally ill.
I will give another example of how psychiatry falters due to it's limitations that are not inherent to the individual. And my psychiatrist was a pretty good one. We are on a band message board, and I can't imagine that there is one person on here that hasn't been quite influenced by Pearl Jam's music and some of the profound messages they've shared with us. During one period of addressing the numerous life abuses I'd endured, by talking them out with my boyfriend, I found that at the time, I was also being inspired by some songs and the powerful messages in them (not Pearl Jam at the time, however). I told this to my psychiatrist. He looked disturbed, and prescribed me more meds. Because psychiatry cannot fathom issues of inspiration, it was assumed that my higher experiences of the human condition was pathological, and could be medicated away.
I am curious, what were these "higher experiences" that you refer to?
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Likewise I must add that it is an unfortunate truth that there are SOME truly incompetent doctors out there. The idea of "quacks" is not a falacy. In this regard, it is very important that if a patient does not feel comfortable with their doctor, that they find another. If however a person is constantly jumping from one practice to the next, the question must be raised as to the what the real problem is.
This can be true--that the doctor may not be a match for the individual. And also, a professional may make one good choice and the next one may be a poor choice. It can and does go by interaction to interaction, and is not a blanket thing. As I say in general my doctor had a good reputation, and was empowering in some ways, like encouraging me to take responsibility for my own medication status. At other times, he made errors, which represented the "infancy" of psychiatry, meaning the flaws.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I'm inspired by this song by Eek A Mouse
Bidi Bidi Bong Bong
Bidi Bong Bong
Bidi Bong Bong
Bidi Me'hen
Bong Bong
Bidi Bong Bong
Bidi Bong Bong
Bidi Men
Bena Bena bohoi
gena men den
gena men
ehya
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I find it highly questionable that a doctor who in your own admission was very good, to take reference to musical inspiration and say "you are unbalanced take more meds". It seems something is missing.
Please share the whole store. What were your higher experiences?
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
I find it highly questionable that a doctor who in your own admission was very good, to take reference to musical inspiration and say "you are unbalanced take more meds". It seems something is missing.
Please share the whole store. What were your higher experiences?
That's literally what happened. He did not say I was imbalanced.
He was quite good as a psychiatrist, and had a good reputation in this area compared to others, but still he minimized my subjective experience and was mostly focussed on "symptoms", such as eating/sleeping, etc., which is seemingly the role of psychiatrists. To treat symptoms with medication.
Unfortunately, in Canada, psychiatric help is covered as health care, and psychiatric patients who often live in poverty do not have the balance of access to sociological help or psychological help.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I did not "accuse" anything, and was clear that it's not about blame. As I said it's the dark side or the underbelly of the profession, and of people. On the conscious surface of awareness, people believe they are doing others a favour. We cannot see where we can use growth until it is presented to us. I'm well aware professionals are not deliberately doing this. Throughout this thread, on any point I've made, rather than consider error on behalf of the professional, you've pointed to the problem existing in the patient. Even though you admit psychiatry is in it's infancy, it seems you cannot acknowledge how it falters and errs. Psychiatry has inherent to it's system the existence of a convenient scapegoat in the mentally ill.
I will give another example of how psychiatry falters due to it's limitations that are not inherent to the individual. And my psychiatrist was a pretty good one. We are on a band message board, and I can't imagine that there is one person on here that hasn't been quite influenced by Pearl Jam's music and some of the profound messages they've shared with us. During one period of addressing the numerous life abuses I'd endured, by talking them out with my boyfriend, I found that at the time, I was also being inspired by some songs and the powerful messages in them (not Pearl Jam at the time, however). I told this to my psychiatrist. He looked disturbed, and prescribed me more meds. Because psychiatry cannot fathom issues of inspiration, it was assumed that my higher experiences of the human condition was pathological, and could be medicated away.
psychiatry -> mentally ill
justice system -> criminals
schools -> students
there is potential for abuse in all of these systems. nobody would deny that and mahogany has not. but that does not mean these are not necessary.
so what exactly are you advocating here? the abolishment of forced committal? closing down all mental hospitals? stripping psychiatrists of credentials and title? overhauling the practice of psychiatry? a social campaign to educate about mental illness? a total societal ban that equates calling someone mentally ill with other words of negative connotation like faggot, cunt, or nigger? a social utopia where nobody ever treats another person bad?
i'm just not sure what you're looking for here... what admission you're after from her. what point you're trying to make. it started with a video and a few links to psychiatrists who have disowned their own discipline. now you've moved to acknowledging the occasional need for medication and forced commission to asylums. i dont get it.
psychiatry -> mentally ill
justice system -> criminals
schools -> students
there is potential for abuse in all of these systems. nobody would deny that and mahogany has not. but that does not mean these are not necessary.
so what exactly are you advocating here? the abolishment of forced committal? closing down all mental hospitals? stripping psychiatrists of credentials and title? overhauling the practice of psychiatry? a social campaign to educate about mental illness? a total societal ban that equates calling someone mentally ill with other words of negative connotation like faggot, cunt, or nigger? a social utopia where nobody ever treats another person bad?
i'm just not sure what you're looking for here... what admission you're after from her. what point you're trying to make. it started with a video and a few links to psychiatrists who have disowned their own discipline. now you've moved to acknowledging the occasional need for medication and forced commission to asylums. i dont get it.
I'm just living my purpose. All is in it's perfect place. What will be will be. For me it's about awareness.
I can see the day when humans no longer need psychiatry. It's evolution.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
so you're just saying you're aware it's probly a futile effort with most people?
Not at all. I know that if people are open and growing, they cannot keep their minds closed. People move at their own pace, so there's no judging these processes. I trust life and life's processes. It looks like numerous people are well aware of this subject, even if they believe it's only from a perspective of disagreement. Awareness is awareness and ultimately only the truth stands. All else falls away.
Those who participated in this thread are obviously all intelligent individuals.
I wasn't presenting the evils of psychiatry, though. It's more about lack, potential and evolution, as always.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Angelica, I'm up late tonite due to a stomach ailment so I decided to read through some of your other posts to get a better feel for who you are as a person.
I'm noticing a trend of contradiction with you. In one breath you say nothing is perfect, then you make comments like "all in it's perfect place".
In other threads you comment how there is no bad or good no right or wrong there "just is", yet here you condemn physicians.
You claim to be about raising awareness on an issue very close to you, yet you flip flop on your stand.
When others don't understand you, or your comments fail to make a point in a coherent sense, you remove yourself from culpability.
When challenged for details, you skirt the issue and provide only a small vague response.
You intrigue me.
I would like to get a better perception, from your own point of view, as to how your self treatment has improved your life. So if you are willing to support your claims, I have several questions.
What is your quality of life? What are your hobbies and interests? Do you hold down a job? What is your relationship with others like? Do you hear voices? When you speak of spirituality what are your beliefs? Do you continue to go to therapy? How did your "very good psychiatrist" respond to your choices regarding treatment? What does your family think? You mentioned that your daughter was also suffering from mental dysfunction at one point. Is she also cured? How did this come about? Do you believe that mental illness tends to run in families? What are your thoughts on this subject?
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Not at all. I know that if people are open and growing, they cannot keep their minds closed. People move at their own pace, so there's no judging these processes. I trust life and life's processes. It looks like numerous people are well aware of this subject, even if they believe it's only from a perspective of disagreement. Awareness is awareness and ultimately only the truth stands. All else falls away.
Those who participated in this thread are obviously all intelligent individuals.
I wasn't presenting the evils of psychiatry, though. It's more about lack, potential and evolution, as always.
yeah, you an ahnimus are like opposite sides of the same coin. both with serious one-track mind problems and both on a mission to enlighten the rest of us to the wisdom of your respective ways
yeah, you an ahnimus are like opposite sides of the same coin. both with serious one-track mind problems and both on a mission to enlighten the rest of us to the wisdom of your respective ways
To be fair, it is human nature to share thoughts in a more aggressive manner when we truly believe in an idea. Enlightenment is relative to the individual.
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
To be fair, it is human nature to share thoughts in a more aggressive manner when we truly believe in an idea. Enlightenment is relative to the individual.
im ok with aggressive belief sharing. but there are a lot of topics on here and the second ahnimus or angelica steps into any of them it becomes either a debate about how there is no free will and determinism rules all or how we are all emotionally and mentally stunted and need to grow and be open-minded, respectively. they each seem incapable of discussing anything else.
yeah, you an ahnimus are like opposite sides of the same coin. both with serious one-track mind problems and both on a mission to enlighten the rest of us to the wisdom of your respective ways
It's life that enlightens us. Ahnimus and I are just being who we are.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
im ok with aggressive belief sharing. but there are a lot of topics on here and the second ahnimus or angelica steps into any of them it becomes either a debate about how there is no free will and determinism rules all or how we are all emotionally and mentally stunted and need to grow and be open-minded, respectively. they each seem incapable of discussing anything else.
This is an odd concept since Angelica feels there are no "flaws" in people. Therefore how can anyone be stunted or closed minded when everyone is perfect in their own way?
"When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
Comments
"The problem with being committed, especially falsely!, against one's will is it's a huge power thing. It's an abuse of power. "
I mean the problem with being committed falsely is a huge power thing. If it were true that I'd taken an overdose two times, I completely can understand, and at this time agree with the need to commit me were I not to seek treatment on my own, or recognize a need to do so.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
While your brain is busting, I'm readjusting
My synaptic weights, to represent, the best hypothesis, to date
Sorry, just a little neurophilosophical rap. It's a work in progress.
I will give another example of how psychiatry falters due to it's limitations that are not inherent to the individual. And my psychiatrist was a pretty good one. We are on a band message board, and I can't imagine that there is one person on here that hasn't been quite influenced by Pearl Jam's music and some of the profound messages they've shared with us. During one period of addressing the numerous life abuses I'd endured, by talking them out with my boyfriend, I found that at the time, I was also being inspired by some songs and the powerful messages in them (not Pearl Jam at the time, however). I told this to my psychiatrist. He looked disturbed, and prescribed me more meds. Because psychiatry cannot fathom issues of inspiration, it was assumed that my higher experiences of the human condition was pathological, and could be medicated away.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I am curious, what were these "higher experiences" that you refer to?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I'm inspired by this song by Eek A Mouse
Bidi Bidi Bong Bong
Bidi Bong Bong
Bidi Bong Bong
Bidi Me'hen
Bong Bong
Bidi Bong Bong
Bidi Bong Bong
Bidi Men
Bena Bena bohoi
gena men den
gena men
ehya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpX3NhpRGdE
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Please share the whole store. What were your higher experiences?
He was quite good as a psychiatrist, and had a good reputation in this area compared to others, but still he minimized my subjective experience and was mostly focussed on "symptoms", such as eating/sleeping, etc., which is seemingly the role of psychiatrists. To treat symptoms with medication.
Unfortunately, in Canada, psychiatric help is covered as health care, and psychiatric patients who often live in poverty do not have the balance of access to sociological help or psychological help.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
when's the record drop?
psychiatry -> mentally ill
justice system -> criminals
schools -> students
there is potential for abuse in all of these systems. nobody would deny that and mahogany has not. but that does not mean these are not necessary.
so what exactly are you advocating here? the abolishment of forced committal? closing down all mental hospitals? stripping psychiatrists of credentials and title? overhauling the practice of psychiatry? a social campaign to educate about mental illness? a total societal ban that equates calling someone mentally ill with other words of negative connotation like faggot, cunt, or nigger? a social utopia where nobody ever treats another person bad?
i'm just not sure what you're looking for here... what admission you're after from her. what point you're trying to make. it started with a video and a few links to psychiatrists who have disowned their own discipline. now you've moved to acknowledging the occasional need for medication and forced commission to asylums. i dont get it.
I can see the day when humans no longer need psychiatry. It's evolution.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
it is much easier to raise people's awareness by having a clear and coherent message so that people know what they are supposed to be aware of
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
yet you just spent all day and 8 pages arguing with us about the evils of psychiatry.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
are you saying that i imagined you were arguing and you really weren't? that it is only my perception that you were trying to sway our opinions?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
so you're just saying you're aware it's probly a futile effort with most people?
Those who participated in this thread are obviously all intelligent individuals.
I wasn't presenting the evils of psychiatry, though. It's more about lack, potential and evolution, as always.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I'm noticing a trend of contradiction with you. In one breath you say nothing is perfect, then you make comments like "all in it's perfect place".
In other threads you comment how there is no bad or good no right or wrong there "just is", yet here you condemn physicians.
You claim to be about raising awareness on an issue very close to you, yet you flip flop on your stand.
When others don't understand you, or your comments fail to make a point in a coherent sense, you remove yourself from culpability.
When challenged for details, you skirt the issue and provide only a small vague response.
You intrigue me.
I would like to get a better perception, from your own point of view, as to how your self treatment has improved your life. So if you are willing to support your claims, I have several questions.
What is your quality of life? What are your hobbies and interests? Do you hold down a job? What is your relationship with others like? Do you hear voices? When you speak of spirituality what are your beliefs? Do you continue to go to therapy? How did your "very good psychiatrist" respond to your choices regarding treatment? What does your family think? You mentioned that your daughter was also suffering from mental dysfunction at one point. Is she also cured? How did this come about? Do you believe that mental illness tends to run in families? What are your thoughts on this subject?
yeah, you an ahnimus are like opposite sides of the same coin. both with serious one-track mind problems and both on a mission to enlighten the rest of us to the wisdom of your respective ways
im ok with aggressive belief sharing. but there are a lot of topics on here and the second ahnimus or angelica steps into any of them it becomes either a debate about how there is no free will and determinism rules all or how we are all emotionally and mentally stunted and need to grow and be open-minded, respectively. they each seem incapable of discussing anything else.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Please help me understand who you are by answering my questions.