i got the impression s/he meant advocating only one brand of recovery is dangerous... ie. the brand you espouse. just becos your behavior modification worked for you does not mean it will work for everyone. saying that medicine can and should only be used as a stepping stone for your... integration therapy (or whatever you want to call it) is dangerous in that it ignores the fact that different people respond differently to different therapies and have different treatment needs.
I'm happy to admit I'm a fuckwit, and I'll mock my so-called learning to be your best friend, too.
This is a great post.
I think you may be the trickster hero in his 21st century incarnation. Or are you the love child of Socrates and Peter Cook? Either way, much respect!
This is a great post.
I think you may the trickster hero in his 21st century incarnation. Or are you the love child of Socrates and Peter Cook? Either way, much respect!
...philosophy will clip an angel's wings,
conquer all mysteries by rule and line,
empty the haunted air, and gnomed mine -
unweave a rainbow, as it erewhile made...
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
OK, I've watched the longer clip of 19 minutes now. I must say I find the clip itself problematic. Starts out with presenting alot of dark history of psychiatry. Fair enough, there is a lot of it there. And some criticism of behaviourists, fine, although I'm not in on the reasons why they criticize it.
But when they start suggesting that psychiatrists presented the "conspiracy" that we are really animals, spiced up with a Nietzsche quote, well, I can sense an agenda beneath that I cannot accept. (Not to mention a misunderstanding of Nietzsche which is all too common)
So to be clear, I can agree with psychiatric history having crazy shit in it, psychiatry medicines are over-used, particularly in the US (where all medicines are over-used it seems) and there are fields and parts of psychology one needs to be critical of. That said, using the bad stuff to slander the entire profession and field is going a mile or two too far. I myself work with autists, and have colleagues that have worked elsewhere, also in the mental hospital, and I gotta tell you, they do some good and necessary work, if nothing else to shield of some certain individuals from the rest of society.
This piece was way too one-sided, and the only ones speaking were people who had written critical books on the subject.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
OK, I've watched the longer clip of 19 minutes now. I must say I find the clip itself problematic. Starts out with presenting alot of dark history of psychiatry. Fair enough, there is a lot of it there. And some criticism of behaviourists, fine, although I'm not in on the reasons why they criticize it.
But when they start suggesting that psychiatrists presented the "conspiracy" that we are really animals, spiced up with a Nietzsche quote, well, I can sense an agenda beneath that I cannot accept. (Not to mention a misunderstanding of Nietzsche which is all too common)
So to be clear, I can agree with psychiatric history having crazy shit in it, psychiatry medicines are over-used, particularly in the US (where all medicines are over-used it seems) and there are fields and parts of psychology one needs to be critical of. That said, using the bad stuff to slander the entire profession and field is going a mile or two too far. I myself work with autists, and have colleagues that have worked elsewhere, also in the mental hospital, and I gotta tell you, they do some good and necessary work, if nothing else to shield of some certain individuals from the rest of society.
This piece was way too one-sided, and the only ones speaking were people who had written critical books on the subject.
Peace
Dan
Given the history of human civilization, what role does a phsychiatric entrepreneur most identify with, in that history?
Given the history of human civilization, what role does a phsychiatric entrepreneur most identify with, in that history?
you tell me. I dont get what you're driving at.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
i got the impression s/he meant advocating only one brand of recovery is dangerous... ie. the brand you espouse. just becos your behavior modification worked for you does not mean it will work for everyone. saying that medicine can and should only be used as a stepping stone for your... integration therapy (or whatever you want to call it) is dangerous in that it ignores the fact that different people respond differently to different therapies and have different treatment needs.
Behaviour modification didn't work for me. As usual, your assumptions do not represent my reality.
The danger in this thinking is that one positive "recovery", does not mean it should be advocated for all.
It's very interesting to me that people believe that it's dangerous to advocate positive recovery. It's interesting to me that people hold the idea that to advocate recovery for all is in any way dangerous.
The Canadian Mental Health Association, itself, an organization concerned with the mental health of all people, says:
"As a nation-wide, voluntary organization, the Canadian Mental Health Association promotes the mental health of all and supports the resilience and recovery of people experiencing mental illness. The CMHA accomplishes this mission through advocacy, education, research and service.
Our Vision Is Mentally Healthy People In A Healthy Society."
"...All our mental health projects are based on principles of empowerment"
"Mental health means striking a balance in all aspects of your life: social, physical, spiritual, economic and mental. Reaching a balance is a learning process. At times, you may tip the balance too much in one direction and have to find your footing again. Your personal balance will be unique, and your challenge will be to stay mentally healthy by keeping that balance."
"The Canadian Mental Health Association is a nation-wide, charitable organization that promotes the mental health of all and supports the resilience and recovery of people experiencing mental illness."
So the nation-wide Canadian Mental Health Association represents and advocates balance/integration of all functions within the idividual; is empowerment based; and recovery focussed, etc. They advocate recovery for all.
I personally find fear-based thinking to be dangerous, and to limit humans from their potential. Those who know me and my views know I am an firm advocate of the CMHA.
But when they start suggesting that psychiatrists presented the "conspiracy" that we are really animals, spiced up with a Nietzsche quote, well, I can sense an agenda beneath that I cannot accept.
It's pretty clear in my experience that psychiatry does not accept spiritual experience. Due to it's "scientific" nature, wherein the non-material cannot be acknowledged, spiritual perception is pathologized. I was diagnosed with a new mental illness because I was having mystical experiences. Even when the mystical experiences led to my empowerment and healing of my numerous disorders. The spiritual capacity of humans represents our most highest human ideals. To pathologize this is an agenda all it's own, and one that has a huge fallout.
... using the bad stuff to slander the entire profession and field is going a mile or two too far.
I'm not sure what you mean by "slander an entire profession". The dynamics of psychiatry reduce natural human experience. Drastically. With great fallout.
I myself work with autists, and have colleagues that have worked elsewhere, also in the mental hospital, and I gotta tell you, they do some good and necessary work, if nothing else to shield of some certain individuals from the rest of society.
I agree that much great and effective work is done within psychiatry. Even when the pathologizing of normal human dynamics, rather than understanding them, actually increases such problems in an overview. I also see that an objective overview of the "machine" is one view, and is not the subjective views of all involved, which when looked at paints a different picture.
This piece was way too one-sided, and the only ones speaking were people who had written critical books on the subject.
Coming from one perspective is a fair view. It may not present the whole picture, and yet it presents aspects that people seem generally oblivious to, or in denial of.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I personally find fear-based thinking to be dangerous, and to limit humans from their potential. Those who know me and my views know I am an firm advocate of the CMHA.
what if that potential is being reached without recovery. what if the 'patient' believes that to be 'cured' of their illness means to lose their gift.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
what if that potential is being reached without recovery. what if the 'patient' believes that to be 'cured' of their illness means to lose their gift.
Whatever each individual feels is in their best interests is the bottom line for me. This is as diverse as there are diverse humans across the globe. For me, personally, even if I would make different choices from my perspective, and even when I'm quite vocal about my opinion, the bottom line to individual health is to be who that individual is, which means I support their view 100%, even if my view sees completely differently. I can accept opposing views, and be completely comfortable with that. That means even if the person feels being cured would mean something other than what I think it means. For example, I have a brother who has schizophrenia. He doesn't find any of his "unnatural" symptoms to be mystical or in any way good. He's very science oriented, and for him, a cure would mean an absense of these symptoms. And for him, taking meds for the rest of his life is a 'cure'. I completely support his experience, and his choices.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Whatever each individual feels is in their best interests is the bottom line for me. This is as diverse as there are diverse humans across the globe. For me, personally, even if I would make different choices from my perspective, and even when I'm quite vocal about my opinion, the bottom line to individual health is to be who that individual is, which means I support their view 100%, even if my view sees completely differently. I can accept opposing views, and be completely comfortable with that. That means even if the person feels being cured would mean something other than what I think it means. For example, I have a brother who has schizophrenia. He doesn't find any of his "unnatural" symptoms to be mystical or in any way good. He's very science oriented, and for him, a cure would mean an absense of these symptoms. And for him, taking meds for the rest of his life is a 'cure'. I completely support his experience, and his choices.
you misunderstand me angelica. what i mean is... what if they thought that drugs would alter their thinking too much for them to be able to live with. taking meds levels their moods but steals their talent. you'd still support that decision.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yes, we should take the life-saving medications away from the epileptic person. While we're at it, we should probably stop alzhiemers research because I would hate to take that human experience away from people. And when a person has a stroke, cutting off the oxygen and blood supply to a particular part of the brain (lack of blood flow is actually the cause of many problems in the brain) we should probably just recognize that this is just the way the brain is supposed to work. Oh, and the research showing that many of the murderers, rapists, child abusers have problems with their prefrontal cortex should be haulted because the option of medicating those individuals is actually just a way of making them less human................All those in favor, say "I"!
It's pretty clear in my experience that psychiatry does not accept spiritual experience. Due to it's "scientific" nature, wherein the non-material cannot be acknowledged, spiritual perception is pathologized. I was diagnosed with a new mental illness because I was having mystical experiences. Even when the mystical experiences led to my empowerment and healing of my numerous disorders. The spiritual capacity of humans represents our most highest human ideals. To pathologize this is an agenda all it's own, and one that has a huge fallout.
Perhaps. But this clip paints an over-ominous picture if you ask me. I'll concede several of the points, but the one-sided mode of presentation of evil men out to destroy humanity or something turns me off. I wasn't too impressed with fahrenheit 911 either.
I'm not sure what you mean by "slander an entire profession". The dynamics of psychiatry reduce natural human experience. Drastically. With great fallout.
As does medicine, as does all science. And it is a great help in many cases. The error is assuming that's all there is, and that science at any points posess the full and complete truth.
Coming from one perspective is a fair view. It may not present the whole picture, and yet it presents aspects that people seem generally oblivious to, or in denial of.
This clip did not present any kind of "fair view" as far as I can tell. Not a single opposing voice were heard, ominous music and voice-over and an extremely one-sided view of some of the sides of psychiatry, made out to represent all of psychiatry.
I am all for critique of psychology and psychiatry, particularly the history there-in. However, presenting it as money-out-the-window, doesn't cure or help anything run by evil men that are denouncing god.. Well, theat's a major turn-off. This is propaganda, and that never looks pretty no matter who tells it or for what reason.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
you misunderstand me angelica. what i mean is... what if they thought that drugs would alter their thinking too much for them to be able to live with. taking meds levels their moods but steals their talent. you'd still support that decision.
Oh, I apologize.
I'm not exactly sure I'm understanding. I'll see how this goes, and you can tell me if I'm answering what you're asking....
I support people doing what is right for them. I support them if they choose to not take meds if it alters their thinking too much or if it affects their 'talent'. My mother, a creative musician/songwriter, made this choice when I was a young girl. She was psychiatrically hospitalized and given meds. She went off her meds because they disrupted her thinking. The consequence of her choice is that I was raised by a mentally ill mother, through episodic periods of delusions and hallucinations interspersed between her having periods of awesome parenting, etc. Granted, there were many much better options/choices available that were not looked into at that time, which predisposed myself and my family to much further psychiatric problems for generations. This was a chain I indended to break and have done for myself, and my children.
I have been psychiatrically hospitalized two times against my will. I've also participated--well, led, actually, having my brother psychiatrically hospitalized against his will. I was with my daughter and her psychologist as she was "committed"-- hospitalized against her will. Where I draw the line with choice, personally and professionally, is if a person poses a danger to themselves or to others. Then I support alternative methods, such as involuntary ones. I'm not overly thrilled with this, but I don't see other options at this time, even though I'm certainly open to them. Given I've been dramatically affected by mental illness from so many angles, I take these choices very seriously.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Behaviour modification didn't work for me. As usual, your assumptions do not represent my reality.
positive recovery then. whatever you want to call it. bottom line is the point still stands. your way is not the only way and adopting the stance that you know the only and best way to treat all mental illness and everyone should adhere to it and anyone suggesting any other treatments is wrong is utterly ludicrous. all the poster said was that just becos it worked for you does not mean it will work for everyone or that it should be the sole treatment used. just one of many.
Comments
I've too many qualifications.....
In some taverns, after so many, they call them disqualifications.
Or,
it's also simply known as an 86, if escorted.
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except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
i got the impression s/he meant advocating only one brand of recovery is dangerous... ie. the brand you espouse. just becos your behavior modification worked for you does not mean it will work for everyone. saying that medicine can and should only be used as a stepping stone for your... integration therapy (or whatever you want to call it) is dangerous in that it ignores the fact that different people respond differently to different therapies and have different treatment needs.
Through it all. Mainly the drunk postings. You've always been there for me, man.
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except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
what you are fins is a bloody stirrer.
but tis fun to watch and sometimes bite.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
This is a great post.
I think you may be the trickster hero in his 21st century incarnation. Or are you the love child of Socrates and Peter Cook? Either way, much respect!
er,
nevermind.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
conquer all mysteries by rule and line,
empty the haunted air, and gnomed mine -
unweave a rainbow, as it erewhile made...
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy".
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
-anonymous
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
if i was a guy i would find this to be true.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
um, girls get wood, too.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
They say, a boy's best friend is his Mother.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
But when they start suggesting that psychiatrists presented the "conspiracy" that we are really animals, spiced up with a Nietzsche quote, well, I can sense an agenda beneath that I cannot accept. (Not to mention a misunderstanding of Nietzsche which is all too common)
So to be clear, I can agree with psychiatric history having crazy shit in it, psychiatry medicines are over-used, particularly in the US (where all medicines are over-used it seems) and there are fields and parts of psychology one needs to be critical of. That said, using the bad stuff to slander the entire profession and field is going a mile or two too far. I myself work with autists, and have colleagues that have worked elsewhere, also in the mental hospital, and I gotta tell you, they do some good and necessary work, if nothing else to shield of some certain individuals from the rest of society.
This piece was way too one-sided, and the only ones speaking were people who had written critical books on the subject.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
but you'd hardly call it a boner though, would you?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
My contribution's something of a cliche now though. Your's tops mine.
*shrugs shoulders*
it's up to you.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Given the history of human civilization, what role does a phsychiatric entrepreneur most identify with, in that history?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
tis the second time i can remember you using it recently.
oh and i'm having a fins moment. spot the redundant apostrophe.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
MahoganySouls said:
It's very interesting to me that people believe that it's dangerous to advocate positive recovery. It's interesting to me that people hold the idea that to advocate recovery for all is in any way dangerous.
The Canadian Mental Health Association, itself, an organization concerned with the mental health of all people, says:
"As a nation-wide, voluntary organization, the Canadian Mental Health Association promotes the mental health of all and supports the resilience and recovery of people experiencing mental illness. The CMHA accomplishes this mission through advocacy, education, research and service.
Our Vision Is Mentally Healthy People In A Healthy Society."
"...All our mental health projects are based on principles of empowerment"
"Mental health means striking a balance in all aspects of your life: social, physical, spiritual, economic and mental. Reaching a balance is a learning process. At times, you may tip the balance too much in one direction and have to find your footing again. Your personal balance will be unique, and your challenge will be to stay mentally healthy by keeping that balance."
"The Canadian Mental Health Association is a nation-wide, charitable organization that promotes the mental health of all and supports the resilience and recovery of people experiencing mental illness."
So the nation-wide Canadian Mental Health Association represents and advocates balance/integration of all functions within the idividual; is empowerment based; and recovery focussed, etc. They advocate recovery for all.
I personally find fear-based thinking to be dangerous, and to limit humans from their potential. Those who know me and my views know I am an firm advocate of the CMHA.
http://www.cmha.ca/bins/index.asp
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I agree that much great and effective work is done within psychiatry. Even when the pathologizing of normal human dynamics, rather than understanding them, actually increases such problems in an overview. I also see that an objective overview of the "machine" is one view, and is not the subjective views of all involved, which when looked at paints a different picture.
Coming from one perspective is a fair view. It may not present the whole picture, and yet it presents aspects that people seem generally oblivious to, or in denial of.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
what if that potential is being reached without recovery. what if the 'patient' believes that to be 'cured' of their illness means to lose their gift.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
you misunderstand me angelica. what i mean is... what if they thought that drugs would alter their thinking too much for them to be able to live with. taking meds levels their moods but steals their talent. you'd still support that decision.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
As does medicine, as does all science. And it is a great help in many cases. The error is assuming that's all there is, and that science at any points posess the full and complete truth.
This clip did not present any kind of "fair view" as far as I can tell. Not a single opposing voice were heard, ominous music and voice-over and an extremely one-sided view of some of the sides of psychiatry, made out to represent all of psychiatry.
I am all for critique of psychology and psychiatry, particularly the history there-in. However, presenting it as money-out-the-window, doesn't cure or help anything run by evil men that are denouncing god.. Well, theat's a major turn-off. This is propaganda, and that never looks pretty no matter who tells it or for what reason.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I'm not exactly sure I'm understanding. I'll see how this goes, and you can tell me if I'm answering what you're asking....
I support people doing what is right for them. I support them if they choose to not take meds if it alters their thinking too much or if it affects their 'talent'. My mother, a creative musician/songwriter, made this choice when I was a young girl. She was psychiatrically hospitalized and given meds. She went off her meds because they disrupted her thinking. The consequence of her choice is that I was raised by a mentally ill mother, through episodic periods of delusions and hallucinations interspersed between her having periods of awesome parenting, etc. Granted, there were many much better options/choices available that were not looked into at that time, which predisposed myself and my family to much further psychiatric problems for generations. This was a chain I indended to break and have done for myself, and my children.
I have been psychiatrically hospitalized two times against my will. I've also participated--well, led, actually, having my brother psychiatrically hospitalized against his will. I was with my daughter and her psychologist as she was "committed"-- hospitalized against her will. Where I draw the line with choice, personally and professionally, is if a person poses a danger to themselves or to others. Then I support alternative methods, such as involuntary ones. I'm not overly thrilled with this, but I don't see other options at this time, even though I'm certainly open to them. Given I've been dramatically affected by mental illness from so many angles, I take these choices very seriously.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
positive recovery then. whatever you want to call it. bottom line is the point still stands. your way is not the only way and adopting the stance that you know the only and best way to treat all mental illness and everyone should adhere to it and anyone suggesting any other treatments is wrong is utterly ludicrous. all the poster said was that just becos it worked for you does not mean it will work for everyone or that it should be the sole treatment used. just one of many.