Wow. Fucking hysterical. I have to remember that the next time someone tries to hijack a thread and take it off topic.
So, no good/valid points from the video?
accoustic guy? Beuller?
Comedic gold if you ask me...I have to entertain myself most times when posting here...
A point raised was how seemingly rude and crazy his "spiritual mentor" is.
Oh and the fact that the sickest Irony of all is Hussein get's wrongfully murdered and the US elects a guy called Hussein, and the world is more fucked up than ever before instead of better which was the *cough* "plan"
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
You can't get any reasonable discussion because the majority of Obama supporters here have all become emotionally attached. It is apparent in almost every thread started with any critique concerning Obama. They'll be more insults and sarcasm than any substantial replies. It has become routine.
I noticed some very alarming things in this thread. First, some people are attached to their ... attachment, as you point to, at the expense of being objective.
Also, I notice some were unwilling/unable to actually notice points that went contrary to their view - ie: were unable to see reasonably and objectively, and rather made snap judgments based on surface things. And then reverted to pettiness and ignorance for their choice of how to respond.
While some disdained overt spin, they practiced reverse spin themselves. The result is, like happens wide-scale, that the actual issues were glossed over and ignored by some people...and by the time I came into the thread, it was happening with the majority of people who commented.
People are choosing division at the expense of awareness and vision. It's not my favourite way to deal with issues to choose leadership. We definitely reap what we sow. It reminds me of why George Bush has been in power for these years. And why America holds such accountability on the world stage.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I noticed some very alarming things in this thread. First, some people are attached to their ... attachment, as you point to, at the expense of being objective.
Also, I notice some were unwilling/unable to actually notice points that went contrary to their view - ie: were unable to see reasonably and objectively, and rather made snap judgments based on surface things. And then reverted to pettiness and ignorance for their choice of how to respond.
While some disdained overt spin, they practiced reverse spin themselves. The result is, like happens wide-scale, that the actual issues were glossed over and ignored by some people...and by the time I came into the thread, it was happening with the majority of people who commented.
People are choosing division at the expense of awareness and vision. It's not my favourite way to deal with issues to choose leadership. We definitely reap what we sow. It reminds me of why George Bush has been in power for these years. And why America holds such accountability on the world stage.
I agree 100% Well said!
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Myself, although I love and respect my country alongside my love for all countries, I am not patriotic, nor tied into divisions such as "nations", etc. I respect that Obama doesn't wear the pin, and that he won't hold his hand on his heart.
At the same time, I also recognize that despite my view, a whopping number of Americans are patriotic, and very highly emotionally tied into their nation, particularly as separate and individual among other nations. Such individuals have strong emotional ties to the symbols and indicators of patriotism. These individuals have valid reasons for being patriotic based on their life experiences and worldviews. They also have every right to expect their potential leaders to hold to a similar sense of patriotism as they themselves hold to. I acknowledge that. I respect that. I respect their views and opinions. I think it's as appropriate to create videos that appeal to these individuals, just like it's appropriate to create movies like "Loose Change", etc. When people make such movies, they are appealing to a certain group, and that's applicable.
Disagree or agree, the patriotic view exists, to a large degree. And it's certainly fair to appeal to those individuals with these videos.
Ok, but he isn't saying that he is unpatriotic, nor is he saying that anybody else should espouse his view of not wearing a pin or not putting his hand on his heart. He isn't saying that America is special among other nations. I don't see how not doing those things makes him unpatriotic. I don't always take my hat off during the national anthem, and I don't wear a pin everday. Am unpatriotic? I don't see how its relevant at all.
I agree that they have misconstrued what his wife said in a different context, in order to use her words for their purposes. And still, she is openly admitting that the course of America, in her adulthood, has not been one that she's been hopeful about until lately.
A man chooses the woman he spends his life with for exacting reasons - especially an intelligent, charismatic man like Obama. I would never underestimate the influence his wife's view has on his own. I can't blame Obama or his wife for not having hope in America as adults! I would probably agree if I were American! And still, I think his wife's statement is a very relevant point to bring out for those who oppose Obama in view! His detractors have every right to know something that makes such a strong statement, imo.
That's fine. You're right that his wife influences him. But again, we shouldn't put her views in his mouth. Also, its not like she said America has only done bad things. You yourself agree that what she said was misconstrued, so why is it relevant? What does it have to do with Obama's stance on any issues? If they aren't proud of America till now, doesn't that mean that they want to make America better? How is that bad?
jeffbr did a great job on this topic. I also cannot underestimate the spiritual inspiration and influence one has been so closely tied to for so long.
Separation of church and state to me is an artificial line. We cannot divide Obama the man from his Spiritual nature. Many Americans feel that they are one with their Spiritual selves, and they recognize that their decisions flow from their highest ideals and beliefs.
Yes, this video is full of spin. Yes, this video tries to construe the influence of a spiritual mentor into meaning that Obama agrees with the beliefs of this man in general, when we have no proof of that at all. Ultimately Obama is accountable ONLY for the fruits of his own beliefs, not for the beliefs or fruits of the beliefs of others.
I agree, that Reverend Wright is not someone I'd generally associate myself with, and definitely not vote for. But I think that someone of moral fiber has the ability to separate spiritual feelings from their obligations at their job and as president (although Bush can be used as a great counter-example. Edit: actually Bush has no moral fiber, so scratch that). Also, you say "many Americans feel that they are one with their spiritual self" but that does not mean Obama does. Have we seen any evidence that his spiritual life has or will influence his stance on issues relevant to politics and the presidency?
Like you said, the video is full of spin and Obama is accountable for his belief only. So why then should we focus so hard on his pastor's belief? Its not relevant.
To me, it's very relevent to scrutinize such issues. Discerning these issues is our friend. Scrutiny is our friend. Whether I agree or disagree with the original poster does not makes his view on the video any more or less valid.
I'm all for scrutinizing the issues and critiquing. However, I don't think that what is presented in the can be fairly called "the issues". What's presented here is for the most part not relevant at all, and the way it is presented is so "spun out" (we could even call this video a spunion) that it loses any credence it might have had (which was little to begin with).
If you want to talk the issues than do it straight out. Not through propaganda that has the tiniest iota of truth it, that you have to strain yourself to figure it out.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
That was good, Roland. You've been practicing, I see.
danka....you're none too shabby yourself
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I thanka you. Apparently my reading skills are suffering for it, though. At first, I thought you said "your way with smilies is uncanny."
(Tanks: like angry houses.)
Since you brought it up, I do feel redundant having to post these same smilies all the time. If we had access to others, we'd blow this house apart with zany, animated dancing smilies set to the finest thread hijacking and world domination plots this place has ever seen!
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Ok, but he isn't saying that he is unpatriotic, nor is he saying that anybody else should espouse his view of not wearing a pin or not putting his hand on his heart. He isn't saying that America is special among other nations. I don't see how not doing those things makes him unpatriotic. I don't always take my hat off during the national anthem, and I don't wear a pin everday. Am unpatriotic? I don't see how its relevant at all.
It doesn't bother me, but I think this might exude stupidity on his part more than anything.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Since you brought it up, I do feel redundant having to post these same smilies all the time. If we had access to others, we'd blow this house apart with zany, animated dancing smilies set to the finest thread hijacking and world domination plots this place has ever seen!
Oh boy (girl ) - you do not want to see some of the smilies I've got on MSN. I'm talking one guy slapping another guy with a slippery fish, Luke and Vader's lightsaber duel from the end of Empire, and the Grim Reaper shooting a guy. It'd be chaos!
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Oh boy (girl ) - you do not want to see some of the smilies I've got on MSN. I'm talking one guy slapping another guy with a slippery fish, Luke and Vader's lightsaber duel from the end of Empire, and the Grim Reaper shooting a guy. It'd be chaos!
recommend these be coded into the site asap...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
It doesn't bother me, but I think this might exude stupidity on his part more than anything.
I guess. He was giving the American public too much credit thinking that they weren't so stupid and that they wouldn't give a crap about something not related to his actual stance on issues or his belief on anything.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
Oh boy (girl ) - you do not want to see some of the smilies I've got on MSN. I'm talking one guy slapping another guy with a slippery fish, Luke and Vader's lightsaber duel from the end of Empire, and the Grim Reaper shooting a guy. It'd be chaos!
Precisely.
I've tried making my own....not too fabulous but it's a start anyways.
I noticed some very alarming things in this thread. First, some people are attached to their ... attachment, as you point to, at the expense of being objective.
Also, I notice some were unwilling/unable to actually notice points that went contrary to their view - ie: were unable to see reasonably and objectively, and rather made snap judgments based on surface things. And then reverted to pettiness and ignorance for their choice of how to respond.
While some disdained overt spin, they practiced reverse spin themselves. The result is, like happens wide-scale, that the actual issues were glossed over and ignored by some people...and by the time I came into the thread, it was happening with the majority of people who commented.
People are choosing division at the expense of awareness and vision. It's not my favourite way to deal with issues to choose leadership. We definitely reap what we sow. It reminds me of why George Bush has been in power for these years. And why America holds such accountability on the world stage.
you act as if this video and its ridiculous points are a catalyst for quality political conversation and critique? it's junk, and clearly biased propaganda. what else is their to say?
i still like the fact that the OP cannot, and has not, provided his/her view or concerns...
you act as if this video and its ridiculous points are a catalyst for quality political conversation and critique? it's junk, and clearly biased propaganda. what else is their to say?
i still like the fact that the OP cannot, and has not, provided his/her view or concerns...
Exactly. If the video had anything good to say (and that includes critiquing Obama - which is possible) it'd be fine.
But it doesn't.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
I guess. He was giving the American public too much credit thinking that they weren't so stupid and that they wouldn't give a crap about something not related to his actual stance on issues or his belief on anything.
The problem is he "shiny" so to speak and attracted a lot of followers on this shiny/fresh face value charismatic and capable approach, then he fails miserably at it....the little traditional things that are so easy to do.
like a brand new car with a scratch on it.
conflicting brainwaves...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
Comedic gold if you ask me...I have to entertain myself most times when posting here...
A point raised was how seemingly rude and crazy his "spiritual mentor" is.
Oh and the fact that the sickest Irony of all is Hussein get's wrongfully murdered and the US elects a guy called Hussein, and the world is more fucked up than ever before instead of better which was the *cough* "plan"
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
nope
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The talents you pick up posting on the pit....
You're way with similes is uncanny.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Also, I notice some were unwilling/unable to actually notice points that went contrary to their view - ie: were unable to see reasonably and objectively, and rather made snap judgments based on surface things. And then reverted to pettiness and ignorance for their choice of how to respond.
While some disdained overt spin, they practiced reverse spin themselves. The result is, like happens wide-scale, that the actual issues were glossed over and ignored by some people...and by the time I came into the thread, it was happening with the majority of people who commented.
People are choosing division at the expense of awareness and vision. It's not my favourite way to deal with issues to choose leadership. We definitely reap what we sow. It reminds me of why George Bush has been in power for these years. And why America holds such accountability on the world stage.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I thanka you.
(Tanks: like angry houses.)
That was good, Roland. You've been practicing, I see.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I agree 100% Well said!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Ok, but he isn't saying that he is unpatriotic, nor is he saying that anybody else should espouse his view of not wearing a pin or not putting his hand on his heart. He isn't saying that America is special among other nations. I don't see how not doing those things makes him unpatriotic. I don't always take my hat off during the national anthem, and I don't wear a pin everday. Am unpatriotic? I don't see how its relevant at all.
That's fine. You're right that his wife influences him. But again, we shouldn't put her views in his mouth. Also, its not like she said America has only done bad things. You yourself agree that what she said was misconstrued, so why is it relevant? What does it have to do with Obama's stance on any issues? If they aren't proud of America till now, doesn't that mean that they want to make America better? How is that bad?
I agree, that Reverend Wright is not someone I'd generally associate myself with, and definitely not vote for. But I think that someone of moral fiber has the ability to separate spiritual feelings from their obligations at their job and as president (although Bush can be used as a great counter-example. Edit: actually Bush has no moral fiber, so scratch that). Also, you say "many Americans feel that they are one with their spiritual self" but that does not mean Obama does. Have we seen any evidence that his spiritual life has or will influence his stance on issues relevant to politics and the presidency?
Like you said, the video is full of spin and Obama is accountable for his belief only. So why then should we focus so hard on his pastor's belief? Its not relevant.
I'm all for scrutinizing the issues and critiquing. However, I don't think that what is presented in the can be fairly called "the issues". What's presented here is for the most part not relevant at all, and the way it is presented is so "spun out" (we could even call this video a spunion) that it loses any credence it might have had (which was little to begin with).
If you want to talk the issues than do it straight out. Not through propaganda that has the tiniest iota of truth it, that you have to strain yourself to figure it out.
danka....you're none too shabby yourself
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Since you brought it up, I do feel redundant having to post these same smilies all the time. If we had access to others, we'd blow this house apart with zany, animated dancing smilies set to the finest thread hijacking and world domination plots this place has ever seen!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Shucks
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
its a term of endearment
It doesn't bother me, but I think this might exude stupidity on his part more than anything.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Oh boy (girl
and I took it as such.
also on an unrelated note: that's the name of one of my all time favorite movies^^
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
BE AFRAID>.. BE VERRY AFRAID!!!
hilarious.
recommend these be coded into the site asap...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
ouch
right behind 'an unreasonable man' i presume
you said it, not me
I guess. He was giving the American public too much credit thinking that they weren't so stupid and that they wouldn't give a crap about something not related to his actual stance on issues or his belief on anything.
Precisely.
I've tried making my own....not too fabulous but it's a start anyways.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5217453&postcount=52
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
you act as if this video and its ridiculous points are a catalyst for quality political conversation and critique? it's junk, and clearly biased propaganda. what else is their to say?
i still like the fact that the OP cannot, and has not, provided his/her view or concerns...
But of course.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
be careful...
you might get scolded for being insulting, petty, and/or ignorant...
Exactly. If the video had anything good to say (and that includes critiquing Obama - which is possible) it'd be fine.
But it doesn't.
And almost definitely condescending.
Awesome!
Hmmm...
Okay, I tried making a guy doing the Charleston, but he just looked like he'd walked on a landmine while carrying some twigs. :(
scolded?
pointing something out is not scolding...and the fact that you take it that way is telling...
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The problem is he "shiny" so to speak and attracted a lot of followers on this shiny/fresh face value charismatic and capable approach, then he fails miserably at it....the little traditional things that are so easy to do.
like a brand new car with a scratch on it.
conflicting brainwaves...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")