Probably the reason you're not allowed say 'vagina'... in case you embarrass people
In fairness though, it was some kinda school thing right? Maybe it's not entirely wrong that the kids are not allowed discuss stuff of a sexual nature?
There's a fine line between educating kids and having them know everything :eek: Sometimes kids are just best left to being kids.
I agree. Also someone made the point earlier that the girls agreed not to use the word and therefore this goes beyond the word vagina, itself, to an ethical issue of the girls going beyond the bounds of an agreement as well. It can be seen as an issue of defying an agreement made, which looks somewhat like a power issue.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I agree. Also someone made the point earlier that the girls agreed not to use the word and therefore this goes beyond the word vagina, itself, to an ethical issue of the girls going beyond the bounds of an agreement as well. It can be seen as an issue of defying an agreement made, which looks somewhat like a power issue.
But then it IS a school and one thing they must teach is discipline and respect... ok well that's two but still . Maybe they're just cheeky little brats anyway and just did it to be cool after saying they wouldn't. Knowing schoolgirls I somehow doubt it was some big display of feminism or girl power or anything like that.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I think there's a big difference between "vagina" and some woman talking about her "period".
Let's face it, a "period" is not excatly a pleasant topic of discussion. Much like no woman wants to here about a crap or piss some guy just had.
But when you speak of "vagina", now that's a pleasant and stimulating discussion, as long as it doesn't end in a "period":D
well the two ARE heavily connected ya know... think about THAT next time you have the vagina discussion
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I think there's a big difference between "vagina" and some woman talking about her "period".
Let's face it, a "period" is not excatly a pleasant topic of discussion. Much like no woman wants to here about a crap or piss some guy just had.
But when you speak of "vagina", now that's a pleasant and stimulating discussion, as long as it doesn't end in a "period":D
Hopefully you didn't watch your children being born if talk of a woman's "friend from out of town, the girl in the red dress" makes you squeamish! My goodness, I was shocked giving birth myself at the horrific mixture of these warm bodily fluids splashing all over myself and the place! blech! Twice, no less! Although the second time was much worse. The first time, being completely numb to pain, I overlooked the gore for the magic. The second time I was forced to have the full painful experience complete with full feeling and stunning acknowledgement of gore.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
'and i'm climbing up on the railing
trying not to look down
i'm going to do my best swan dive
into shark-infested waters
i'm gonna pull out my tampon
and just start splashing around
'cuz i don't care if they eat me alive
i've got better things to do than survive
i've got a memory of your warm skin in my hand
and i've got a vision of blue sky and dry land' ~ ani difranco
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Hopefully you didn't watch your children being born if talk of a woman's "friend from out of town, the girl in the red dress" makes you squeamish! My goodness, I was shocked giving birth myself at the horrific mixture of these warm bodily fluids splashing all over myself and the place! blech! Twice, no less! Although the second time was much worse. The first time, being completely numb to pain, I overlooked the gore for the magic. The second time I was forced to have the full painful experience complete with full feeling and stunning acknowledgement of gore.
I watched both my sons being born; up close and personal.
You're misunderstanding my point from the beginning.
But let me entertain your approach, here.
Certainly it's not that I'm squeamish or live in denial of the function and reality of a woman's menstrual cycle. It's simply that I don't find a discussion about "periods" to be a pleasant topic of coversation in a social setting.
For instance, if I'm in an intimate relationship with a woman or just friends and they want to mention or discuss their menstrual cycle or problems stemming from it in a non-graphic manner; I can certainly deal with that and be invloved in the discussion without a problem.
But there really is no need to get into a graphic, overly-detailed discussion about it, in most scenarios.
You know, there are a lot of unpleasant realities to our lives and we deal with them as they come along on a daily basis; as with our kids and the changing of their disgusting diapers. Not a pleasant thing to discuss in detailed, graphic terms; but a reality most of us have or will deal with.
My kid's poopy-filled diapers certainly doesn't make me love him less, it doesn't make be less affectionate and close with them or make me squeamish.
But no one wants to know the consistency, texture and contents of my 10 month old son's diaper. Although I'm sure you all know he fills one or two diapers a day; as all babies do.
It's about using a little tact and sparing people of the gory details. There's already enough gory details to life as it is
But ultimately, you once again took what was essentially a little tounge-in-cheek comment with a double entendre at the end and tried to turn it into some deep, physcologically-probing revelation:D
It wasn't.
If watching both my sons being born hasn't extinguished my enthusiasm and love for the vagina and all it's beauty and gifts, neither can the "period";)
I watched both my sons being born; up close and personal.
You're misunderstanding my point from the beginning.
But let me entertain your approach, here.
Certainly it's not that I'm squeamish or live in denial of the function and reality of a woman's menstrual cycle. It's simply that I don't find a discussion about "periods" to be a pleasant topic of coversation in a social setting.
For instance, if I'm in an intimate relationship with a woman or just friends and they want to mention or discuss their menstrual cycle or problems stemming from it in a non-graphic manner; I can certainly deal with that and be invloved in the discussion without a problem.
But there really is no need to get into a graphic, overly-detailed discussion about it, in most scenarios.
You know, there are a lot of unpleasant realities to our lives and we deal with them as they come along on a daily basis; as with our kids and the changing of their disgusting diapers. Not a pleasant thing to discuss in detailed, graphic terms; but a reality most of us have or will deal with.
My kid's poopy-filled diapers certainly doesn't make me love him less, it doesn't make be less affectionate and close with them or make me squeamish.
But no one wants to know the consistency, texture and contents of my 10 month old son's diaper. Although I'm sure you all know he fills one or two diapers a day; as all babies do.
It's about using a little tact and sparing people of the gory details. There's already enough gory details to life as it is
But ultimately, you once again took what was essentially a little tounge-in-cheek comment with a double entendre at the end and tried to turn it into some deep, physcologically-probing revelation:D
It wasn't.
If watching both my sons being born hasn't extinguished my enthusiasm and love for the vagina and all it's beauty and gifts, neither can the "period";)
Hey, I just wanted to throw some gory details at you to see how you'd respond. And here you go getting all serious on me. :rolleyes:
While we're on the topic.......I can't recall the last time any female shared with me the details of her menstuation in terms of texture/consistency/content.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
........i dont understand why the ladies on here are thinking calling someone a pussy is degoratory to their genitalia... i call people cocks, dicks, pricks, etc and its never entered my head that i was being degoratory to my penis... he knows i would never do that
but i bet the ladies on this forum have called guys 'dicks' before?
I don't think it's derogatory to my genitalia dunk, I think, when spoken in a negative fashion by the wrong person, that it is a derogatory comment on ME.
Why should I be dismissed or put down in a negative fashion as nothing more than a body part? And a sexual body part at that. The reason it is offensive to some women here on the forum is because women already struggle in life not to be objectified or dismissed. Or abused purely for sexual purposes. WHY would you want to hear that the sum total of who you are, simply because you are a woman, is nothing more than a receptacle for a penis? And that being dependent on whether yours was deemed good enough? NOW none of this will probably make sense to you dunk, because as we've already discovered through the threads you love women, and you aren't a particularly mean spirited person, so I guess if you were to use the word cunt you most likely would be doing so in a humorous fashion, BUT some people don't. When some people use the term cunt it comes with a whole lot of connatations, expectations and it's offensive. As I said by all means use it. Anybody here or anywhere else in the world for that matter. I'm all for using words and would never condone sensorship. All I asked was could you perhaps be aware of how it CAN be derogatory. I hope that makes sense.
And as to guys being called dicks or cockheads or pricks, yup, I've done it, probably will again.
Maybe this is one of those multiple use things where when you call someone a cunt, you are not referring to female privates at all, ie words often have more than one meaning , and the two meanings are in no way related.
It's an old word too, DH Lawrence used it a lot in one book, name escapes me now, teh one they tried to ban over it, but failed because was deemed to be art, not porn.
Also, the vagina has always been a source of mystery and power, lots and lots of power and mystery, so maybe the some of the power of this word derives from that. It gets a lot of power from the two hard consonants beginning and ending too, just falls on the ear like a hammer, which is probably more important than any genital reference.
Hilariously, while we are discussing this here, I got banned from the Metallica forum by the computer for using it. As if inserting a couple a punctuation marks to disguise it would have changed anything. And this from teh guys who brought us "So What" !!
Maybe lucy. I can see what you are saying. But how come nobody chose EAR or BIG TOE or ELBOW? And I don't know, if it's just about the two hard consonants and nothing to do with the body part, then why don't we use HUNT or BUNT or PUNT? I guess I don't understand all this "mystery" and "power" that you speak of, when it comes to the vagina. Women are still one of the most oppressed groups on the planet. And before everybody jumps up and down on that little comment, I'm not talking the Western world.
Although we still don't have equal pay. Anyway, moving on.
The DH Lawrence book, I think, was Lady Chatterley's Lover and is an excellent example of something being deemed offensive because it pertains to female sexuality. A big no no.
Anyway, best I be shutting up, before I get myself banned from PJ.
It's the one word I reserve for people I REALLY REALLY DESPISE and I've only ever used it on one person and that was recently. Don't know why I hate it so much but it's still a good one to use when you want to be really venomous and I get satisfaction from it. I've never called someone a dick but I use 'prick' regularly.
Yeah, me too Helen. And I guess that's why I'm fascinated with why people find it soooo offensive and why it's reserved for people we despise.
If we are all "loving" the vagina and women then why is c**t the word we use for people we really despise or why is it used when we most want to be offensive? That's what I am musing about.
Sorry but hope you can give me a little verbal run down, as I've got dial up and trying to download something from youtube, much to my frustration, will probably take me until sometime next week!!
Maybe a little off topic, but definitely related. How many people in this discussion have read/heard the vagina monologues?
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Sorry but hope you can give me a little verbal run down, as I've got dial up and trying to download something from youtube, much to my frustration, will probably take me until sometime next week!!
going well, hope the same for you,...
it's 'no way', not just audio, but video,... oh yeah.
i hope your computer starts being a little nicer!
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
If we are all "loving" the vagina and women then why is c**t the word we use for people we really despise or why is it used when we most want to be offensive? That's what I am musing about.
This is exactly it. Thanks, again, for your perceptiveness, Jeanie.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
it's 'no way', not just audio, but video,... oh yeah.
i hope your computer starts being a little nicer!
WOOHOO!! You found it!!! That is excitin news!!
Live I take it? Can you download off youtube? Arrghh!! I'm gonna go mad waiting for broadband because all the good stuff will be back under copyright by the time I get to it! :(
This is exactly it. Thanks, again, for your perceptiveness, Jeanie.
No worries angelica. It's just that it occured to me during the course of my reading over the years and I still haven't managed to find an explanation for the continued use of it that sits well with me. NOT that I have a problem with people using it, but I think once the ramifications of it occur to you, it's very hard to see it as a benign word.
No worries angelica. It's just that it occured to me during the course of my reading over the years and I still haven't managed to find an explanation for the continued use of it that sits well with me. NOT that I have a problem with people using it, but I think once the ramifications of it occur to you, it's very hard to see it as a benign word.
I completely agree with you.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
also, i don't think it is appropriate in a high school setting to be using the word vagina, even if it is the proper clinical term and even a third grader knows what one is. also, they were asked not to, so they should be punished.
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
And ditto back! Wow, the support is growing! We'll singlehandedly (?) start a revolution! Oh wait,.......many other women across the globe preceed us on with this!
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
also, i don't think it is appropriate in a high school setting to be using the word vagina, even if it is the proper clinical term and even a third grader knows what one is. also, they were asked not to, so they should be punished.
I think the problem I have with them being punished sonic is that surely if you are the principal and organizer of the school's open mic night and some of the kids come to you and say that they are planning to do the VAGINA Monologues it would be apparent (or should be) as the adult in the situation
1) what the text was about and therefore the use of the word VAGINA is key to the whole piece.
2) that if you as the adult thought that it was innapropriate to use the word VAGINA then perhaps encouraging the girls to choose something else would have been a better course of action.
And as previously pointed out in the thread, if it was ok for one of the boys to stand up and say "F**K" during the course of his performance and not be suspended or punished, then it just goes to prove, in my mind anyway that the word VAGINA has been unfairly judged, as have the girls who said it.
And ditto back! Wow, the support is growing! We'll singlehandedly (?) start a revolution! Oh wait,.......many other women across the globe preceed us on with this!
Yes a revolution would be good! hehe! But then I suspect if my views on the advancment of women were really made known I'd never get laid again!
Oh yeah, that's right I haven't been for ages!! *sigh* The price we pay!
Yep, I reckon angelica, let's start a revolution! I'm up for it!! And happy to join those ladies who have preceeded us with this movement.
I think the problem I have with them being punished sonic is that surely if you are the principal and organizer of the school's open mic night and some of the kids come to you and say that they are planning to do the VAGINA Monologues it would be apparent (or should be) as the adult in the situation
1) what the text was about and therefore the use of the word VAGINA is key to the whole piece.
2) that if you as the adult thought that it was innapropriate to use the word VAGINA then perhaps encouraging the girls to choose something else would have been a better course of action.
And as previously pointed out in the thread, if it was ok for one of the boys to stand up and say "F**K" during the course of his performance and not be suspended or punished, then it just goes to prove, in my mind anyway that the word VAGINA has been unfairly judged, as have the girls who said it.
as a thread skimmer, i apologize. consistency is key to just about everything, especially in administration,...
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
Comments
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Let's face it, a "period" is not excatly a pleasant topic of discussion. Much like no woman wants to here about a crap or piss some guy just had.
But when you speak of "vagina", now that's a pleasant and stimulating discussion, as long as it doesn't end in a "period":D
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
trying not to look down
i'm going to do my best swan dive
into shark-infested waters
i'm gonna pull out my tampon
and just start splashing around
'cuz i don't care if they eat me alive
i've got better things to do than survive
i've got a memory of your warm skin in my hand
and i've got a vision of blue sky and dry land' ~ ani difranco
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And these three girl are going to do the ... er... hm ... er... monologues!
naděje umírá poslední
I watched both my sons being born; up close and personal.
You're misunderstanding my point from the beginning.
But let me entertain your approach, here.
Certainly it's not that I'm squeamish or live in denial of the function and reality of a woman's menstrual cycle. It's simply that I don't find a discussion about "periods" to be a pleasant topic of coversation in a social setting.
For instance, if I'm in an intimate relationship with a woman or just friends and they want to mention or discuss their menstrual cycle or problems stemming from it in a non-graphic manner; I can certainly deal with that and be invloved in the discussion without a problem.
But there really is no need to get into a graphic, overly-detailed discussion about it, in most scenarios.
You know, there are a lot of unpleasant realities to our lives and we deal with them as they come along on a daily basis; as with our kids and the changing of their disgusting diapers. Not a pleasant thing to discuss in detailed, graphic terms; but a reality most of us have or will deal with.
My kid's poopy-filled diapers certainly doesn't make me love him less, it doesn't make be less affectionate and close with them or make me squeamish.
But no one wants to know the consistency, texture and contents of my 10 month old son's diaper. Although I'm sure you all know he fills one or two diapers a day; as all babies do.
It's about using a little tact and sparing people of the gory details. There's already enough gory details to life as it is
But ultimately, you once again took what was essentially a little tounge-in-cheek comment with a double entendre at the end and tried to turn it into some deep, physcologically-probing revelation:D
It wasn't.
If watching both my sons being born hasn't extinguished my enthusiasm and love for the vagina and all it's beauty and gifts, neither can the "period";)
While we're on the topic.......I can't recall the last time any female shared with me the details of her menstuation in terms of texture/consistency/content.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Oh. Ok, it makes sense now.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
I don't think it's derogatory to my genitalia dunk, I think, when spoken in a negative fashion by the wrong person, that it is a derogatory comment on ME.
Why should I be dismissed or put down in a negative fashion as nothing more than a body part? And a sexual body part at that. The reason it is offensive to some women here on the forum is because women already struggle in life not to be objectified or dismissed. Or abused purely for sexual purposes. WHY would you want to hear that the sum total of who you are, simply because you are a woman, is nothing more than a receptacle for a penis? And that being dependent on whether yours was deemed good enough? NOW none of this will probably make sense to you dunk, because as we've already discovered through the threads you love women, and you aren't a particularly mean spirited person, so I guess if you were to use the word cunt you most likely would be doing so in a humorous fashion, BUT some people don't. When some people use the term cunt it comes with a whole lot of connatations, expectations and it's offensive. As I said by all means use it. Anybody here or anywhere else in the world for that matter. I'm all for using words and would never condone sensorship. All I asked was could you perhaps be aware of how it CAN be derogatory. I hope that makes sense.
And as to guys being called dicks or cockheads or pricks, yup, I've done it, probably will again.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Maybe lucy. I can see what you are saying. But how come nobody chose EAR or BIG TOE or ELBOW?
Although we still don't have equal pay. Anyway, moving on.
The DH Lawrence book, I think, was Lady Chatterley's Lover and is an excellent example of something being deemed offensive because it pertains to female sexuality. A big no no.
Anyway, best I be shutting up, before I get myself banned from PJ.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
jeanie, look what i found on the porch!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jo5C0Qk2WRQ
~Ron Burgundy
Yeah, me too Helen. And I guess that's why I'm fascinated with why people find it soooo offensive and why it's reserved for people we despise.
If we are all "loving" the vagina and women then why is c**t the word we use for people we really despise or why is it used when we most want to be offensive? That's what I am musing about.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Hiya sonic. How's things?
Sorry but hope you can give me a little verbal run down, as I've got dial up and trying to download something from youtube, much to my frustration, will probably take me until sometime next week!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Ooh!! ME! ME!!
I did post a wiki link earlier in the thread. I think they are amazing!
And I really wish they'd perform them here so I can go see them.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
going well, hope the same for you,...
it's 'no way', not just audio, but video,... oh yeah.
i hope your computer starts being a little nicer!
~Ron Burgundy
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
WOOHOO!! You found it!!!
Live I take it? Can you download off youtube? Arrghh!! I'm gonna go mad waiting for broadband because all the good stuff will be back under copyright by the time I get to it! :(
Anyway, all is cool here. Glad all is good there.
Now back to the girlie bits!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
No worries angelica. It's just that it occured to me during the course of my reading over the years and I still haven't managed to find an explanation for the continued use of it that sits well with me. NOT that I have a problem with people using it, but I think once the ramifications of it occur to you, it's very hard to see it as a benign word.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
yes, amazing.
i want to say that i love the vagina.
also, i don't think it is appropriate in a high school setting to be using the word vagina, even if it is the proper clinical term and even a third grader knows what one is. also, they were asked not to, so they should be punished.
~Ron Burgundy
Ditto girl!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Ah that's awesome!
And a wee bit jealous!
I think the problem I have with them being punished sonic is that surely if you are the principal and organizer of the school's open mic night and some of the kids come to you and say that they are planning to do the VAGINA Monologues it would be apparent (or should be) as the adult in the situation
1) what the text was about and therefore the use of the word VAGINA is key to the whole piece.
2) that if you as the adult thought that it was innapropriate to use the word VAGINA then perhaps encouraging the girls to choose something else would have been a better course of action.
And as previously pointed out in the thread, if it was ok for one of the boys to stand up and say "F**K" during the course of his performance and not be suspended or punished, then it just goes to prove, in my mind anyway that the word VAGINA has been unfairly judged, as have the girls who said it.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Yes a revolution would be good! hehe!
Oh yeah, that's right I haven't been for ages!!
Yep, I reckon angelica, let's start a revolution! I'm up for it!! And happy to join those ladies who have preceeded us with this movement.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
as a thread skimmer, i apologize. consistency is key to just about everything, especially in administration,...
~Ron Burgundy
Sounds like good company to run with.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!