Three girls get suspended for saying "Vagina"

Jeanie

sonicreducer wrote:

as a thread skimmer, i apologize. consistency is key to just about everything, especially in administration,...

No problem. There was a lot of silliness going on, so undertandable.

And yes, consistency is something we should all strive for.

lucylespian

Jeanie wrote:

Maybe lucy. I can see what you are saying. But how come nobody chose EAR or BIG TOE or ELBOW? And I don't know, if it's just about the two hard consonants and nothing to do with the body part, then why don't we use HUNT or BUNT or PUNT? I guess I don't understand all this "mystery" and "power" that you speak of, when it comes to the vagina. Women are still one of the most oppressed groups on the planet. And before everybody jumps up and down on that little comment, I'm not talking the Western world.
Although we still don't have equal pay. Anyway, moving on.
The DH Lawrence book, I think, was Lady Chatterley's Lover and is an excellent example of something being deemed offensive because it pertains to female sexuality. A big no no.

Anyway, best I be shutting up, before I get myself banned from PJ.

You won't get banned.
I think the mystery and power I am referring to relates to the idea that primitive cultures did not really understand the vagina, very well, esp in relation to menstruation. The cyclical bleeding, the ability to turn a hard penis into a limp excuse after ejaculation, the appearnace of babies through it etc is the mystery aspect.
I am going to agree wholeheartedly about women still being generally opperessed around the world. There really is no doubt about that. The vagina, however, is one of the few sources of power that women have tradiationally had over men, even in those oppressed environments. Just ask any young man how much power they have in the face of a vagina.
I can also see where you are coming from with this, though, because the way some men overcome that power is with rape and violence.

As for why that particular word, rather than similar things like bunt or funt, well they just don't have the same auditory impact. That particular conjunction of sounds just has more whammy than any other word. I think it is that the three hardest phoneme sounds in our language are all joined together into one short sharp shock.
Not trying to be right here, or justify stuff, just trying to understand stuff that definitely happens.

lucylespian

Jeanie wrote:

No worries angelica. It's just that it occured to me during the course of my reading over the years and I still haven't managed to find an explanation for the continued use of it that sits well with me. NOT that I have a problem with people using it, but I think once the ramifications of it occur to you, it's very hard to see it as a benign word.

I don't think it is a benign word. It is a powerful vicious word.

Jeanie

angelica wrote:

This just might be the root of my 8 years of celibacy! :rolleyes:

Oh!! It will be!! Trust me!!! The more I speak up the less guys like it. And the more I have to remain compliant and silent just to get some lovin' the less I want it!
It's a vicious cycle. Be nice to think that one day I might actually meet someone who found me being pro woman a turn on. AND not in that jelly wrestling way that most guys jump to! :eek:

angelica wrote:

I'm with ya sista! *high five*

OK GIRL!!! *high five* right back at ya!!!

angelica wrote:

Sounds like good company to run with.

Yep!! Sure is girlie!! We should declare this group out and open!

lucylespian

Angelica said "this might be the root of my 8 yrs of celibacy"

Am I allowed to laugh at this, cos it's funny, or will I be crucified ??

angelica

lucylespian wrote:

Angelica said "this might be the root of my 8 yrs of celibacy"

Am I allowed to laugh at this, cos it's funny, or will I be crucified ??

It's meant to be funny, so go ahead.

Jeanie

lucylespian wrote:

Angelica said "this might be the root of my 8 yrs of celibacy"

Am I allowed to laugh at this, cos it's funny, or will I be crucified ??

:D:D It's funny! And you thought it was so laugh away!!
Don't need my permission silly!

No crucifying from me lucy, I'm just trying to understand. And opinions and laughter are excellent learning tools!

lucylespian

Hey, fellow girlies, didn't really think you would nail me up, but Easter is coming, so ya never know.

I'm just surprised no-one else got it and had a chuckle.

HAve been actually paying attention to my work the last few days, but this thread is interesting and a bit different to the usual.
HAd a student yesterday which was a change from the usual routine, fun to be teaching. I would love to have some teaching hours, but the pay is too crap.

Hey Angelica, I read your noted on childbirth. I had a mid-wife ask me once "Don't you believe in the foeto-maternal experiece ?" as some poor woman was writhing in pain and trying to deal wiht the evolutionary incompetence of her birth canal.
How would you have reacted to that ??

Jeanie

lucylespian wrote:

You won't get banned.
I think the mystery and power I am referring to relates to the idea that primitive cultures did not really understand the vagina, very well, esp in relation to menstruation. The cyclical bleeding, the ability to turn a hard penis into a limp excuse after ejaculation, the appearnace of babies through it etc is the mystery aspect.
I am going to agree wholeheartedly about women still being generally opperessed around the world. There really is no doubt about that. The vagina, however, is one of the few sources of power that women have tradiationally had over men, even in those oppressed environments. Just ask any young man how much power they have in the face of a vagina.
I can also see where you are coming from with this, though, because the way some men overcome that power is with rape and violence.

As for why that particular word, rather than similar things like bunt or funt, well they just don't have the same auditory impact. That particular conjunction of sounds just has more whammy than any other word. I think it is that the three hardest phoneme sounds in our language are all joined together into one short sharp shock.
Not trying to be right here, or justify stuff, just trying to understand stuff that definitely happens.

I agree with you lucy with regard to mystery but maybe not so much power. I reckon that is misplaced somewhat. Fact is that men maybe, historically, needed an excuse for not being able to control their animal urges so it was easier to lay the blame for their "weakness" at some mythical power that the vagina had. Maybe this made it easier for them to lay a whole bunch of passive agressive bullshit at women's feet too and therefore control them. You know because I "have" to stick my dick in you, I can't control myself, or my erection, I'll blame you and use it as a reason to oppress you? NOT saying this is even close to factual. Just suggesting a theory.

As to the word itself, again I agree. It certainly is an excellent word in terms of auditory satisfaction. It does have whammy and is shocking. I was only trying to point out that it can be construed as offensive in some circumstances.

lucylespian

Hey, I also just noticed whaat our Sig songs are at teh moemtn

Jeanie is the Love Boat Captain, which is a worry !!
I am the "Soldier of Luuuuurve", which is ironic because I am safely marreid, and in no position to take advantage of that fact !!

and Angelica is Rival, which is also a neat co-incidence, since we so often seem to be on opposite sides of the religious fence.

angelica

lucylespian wrote:

Hey, fellow girlies, didn't really think you would nail me up, but Easter is coming, so ya never know.

I'm just surprised no-one else got it and had a chuckle.

HAve been actually paying attention to my work the last few days, but this thread is interesting and a bit different to the usual.
HAd a student yesterday which was a change from the usual routine, fun to be teaching. I would love to have some teaching hours, but the pay is too crap.

Hey Angelica, I read your noted on childbirth. I had a mid-wife ask me once "Don't you believe in the foeto-maternal experiece ?" as some poor woman was writhing in pain and trying to deal wiht the evolutionary incompetence of her birth canal.
How would you have reacted to that ??

Oh wow. For me personally, giving birth naturally was literally a traumatic experience. Here I go into gory details again, so NMyTree, and other squeamish types look away...... Anyway, I expected fully to have an epidural for the birth and told my doctor in advance that I did not want to have an episiotomy. For those who don't know what that is, it is the incision that is sometimes routinely used to cut the "area" so as to facilitate birth. Being my "strong woman" self, I agreed with the going word at the time which said that doctors did that incision routinely, to prevent tearing, and supposedly also to throw another procedure in with the costs. I'd heard that tearing was actually rare so this procedure was supposedly uncalled for much of them time. I told my doctor far in advance I did not want the incision which causes so much pain healing after the birth. So there I was, my labour proceeded so quickly that I could not get an epidural in time. I have a VERY low tolerance for pain. The baby would not come out--as he moved through the birth canal ready for his debut into the world, apparently the area I did not want cut was not allowing his birth. I was in the most immense pain I've ever experienced, so when the doctor asked me if I was willing to take a few inch slice in my "child-birthing" area, I gleefully screamed "yes!" Compared to the labour pains, and a child being essentially stuck in my vagina, I didn't even notice the pain of the incision. So, anyway........what was it you were asking, again, lucylespian?

Jeanie

lucylespian wrote:

I don't think it is a benign word. It is a powerful vicious word.

Yes and sometimes, it can be a deadly funny word! Just depends on delivery and the deliverer, I guess.

Which was my point I think, just to be aware, that it can be very funny and that's cool, but it can also be vicious and offensive.

Ahnimus

lucylespian wrote:

Hey, I also just noticed whaat our Sig songs are at teh moemtn

Jeanie is the Love Boat Captain, which is a worry !!
I am the "Soldier of Luuuuurve", which is ironic because I am safely marreid, and in no position to take advantage of that fact !!

and Angelica is Rival, which is also a neat co-incidence, since we so often seem to be on opposite sides of the religious fence.

I'm a Crop Duster which means I pwnz j00 all!

lucylespian

Jeanie wrote:

I agree with you lucy with regard to mystery but maybe not so much power. I reckon that is misplaced somewhat. Fact is that men maybe, historically, needed an excuse for not being able to control their animal urges so it was easier to lay the blame for their "weakness" at some mythical power that the vagina had. Maybe this made it easier for them to lay a whole bunch of passive agressive bullshit at women's feet too and therefore control them. You know because I "have" to stick my dick in you, I can't control myself, or my erection, I'll blame you and use it as a reason to oppress you? NOT saying this is even close to factual. Just suggesting a theory.

As to the word itself, again I agree. It certainly is an excellent word in terms of auditory satisfaction. It does have whammy and is shocking. I was only trying to point out that it can be construed as offensive in some circumstances.

Mmmmmmmn, actually I think that a lot of of the oppression of women was invented by homosexual men. Much of it is entrenched in religion. From my point of view, no sane heterosexual man would foreswear women, and lock themselevs up with a bunch of men, but for a gay man in the middle ages, it would be a very convenient way to opt out of the whole marriage to a woman thing. Since the church had some much power over teh shape of society and it's attitudes back then, their attitudes would have filtered through. Mind you, the ancient Greeks had some prety oppresive practices as well, women were locked up in teh "gynekiea" or womens quarters. Men even did the shopping etc, cos wmone weren't allowed out.
Remember when Julian Clary hosted the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras a few years back. He was making so many gross misogynist comments that they had to gag him, and did not ask him back.

Definitely always offensive, sometimes very funny though !!

Jeanie

lucylespian wrote:

Hey, fellow girlies, didn't really think you would nail me up, but Easter is coming, so ya never know.

I'm just surprised no-one else got it and had a chuckle.

HAve been actually paying attention to my work the last few days, but this thread is interesting and a bit different to the usual.
HAd a student yesterday which was a change from the usual routine, fun to be teaching. I would love to have some teaching hours, but the pay is too crap.

Hey Angelica, I read your noted on childbirth. I had a mid-wife ask me once "Don't you believe in the foeto-maternal experiece ?" as some poor woman was writhing in pain and trying to deal wiht the evolutionary incompetence of her birth canal.
How would you have reacted to that ??

:D:D Fellow girlies!!! LMAO!!! :D:D

Yes sista!!

Well I am a non violent pacifist, (mostly) and not religious, so if I was cross, which I'm not, I'd be more likely to feed you Easter eggs till you were sick, than do any crucifying over Easter!

And I guess, much to my embarrassment, I was a bit distracted this morning, by crap really, so missed it! Thanks for drawing it to my attention luce, I needed the laugh!

Yeah, teaching and arts are crap money! AND offensive when you consider just how important they are to us all.

AND I'll just add that if some stupid woman, made that comment anywhere near me, if I was unlucky enough to find myself giving birth (MY personal opinion ladies) there's a really good chance that I'd forget I was a pacifist!

Ahnimus

Women suck! Or so I'm led to believe, and also non-gender specified spivaks seeking nerd love.

lucylespian

angelica wrote:

Oh wow. For me personally, giving birth naturally was literally a traumatic experience. Here I go into gory details again, so NMyTree, and other squeamish types look away...... Anyway, I expected fully to have an epidural for the birth and told my doctor in advance that I did not want to have an episiotomy. For those who don't know what that is, it is the incision that is sometimes routinely used to cut the "area" so as to facilitate birth. Being my "strong woman" self, I agreed with the going word at the time which said that doctors did that incision routinely, to prevent tearing, and supposedly also to throw another procedure in with the costs. I'd heard that tearing was actually rare so this procedure was supposedly uncalled for much of them time. I told my doctor far in advance I did not want the incision which causes so much pain healing after the birth. So there I was, my labour proceeded so quickly that I could not get an epidural in time. I have a VERY low tolerance for pain. The baby would not come out--as he moved through the birth canal ready for his debut into the world, apparently the area I did not want cut was not allowing his birth. I was in the most immense pain I've ever experienced, so when the doctor asked me if I was willing to take a few inch slice in my "child-birthing" area, I gleefully screamed "yes!" Compared to the labour pains, and a child being essentially stuck in my vagina, I didn't even notice the pain of the incision. So, anyway........what was it you were asking, again, lucylespian?

Yeah, thought so. My response was "no , I did not believe in it. I did not feel that such a traumatic painful experience could really be enriching and enlivening. On teh other end of teh episiotomy scissors, to be standing there with teh sweat running down your back while teh foetal heart rate dives, and it's your job to make things right, an episiotomy is a pretty good call.
Rates vary a lot from country to country, Holland is very low and everyone quotes that when saying tehy are un-necessary, but see a few third degree anal tears and compare that to a directed epistiotomy which saves the poo-shooter. It's also amazing how women heal!!

Jeanie

lucylespian wrote:

Hey, I also just noticed whaat our Sig songs are at teh moemtn

Jeanie is the Love Boat Captain, which is a worry !!
I am the "Soldier of Luuuuurve", which is ironic because I am safely marreid, and in no position to take advantage of that fact !!

and Angelica is Rival, which is also a neat co-incidence, since we so often seem to be on opposite sides of the religious fence.

Yeah, and the funniest thing? He who shall remain nameless, and is causing me no end of doubt and despair this week has "Faithful" as his sig!

BUT worry not lucy!! I might not be very good at "taking the reins" as my own Love Boat Captain, but I am pretty good at steering everybody else safely away from the cliff!

lucylespian

Jeanie wrote:

Yeah, and the funniest thing? He who shall remain nameless, and is causing me no end of doubt and despair this week has "Faithful" as his sig!

BUT worry not lucy!! I might not be very good at "taking the reins" as my own Love Boat Captain, but I am pretty good at steering everybody else safely away from the cliff!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOh, Jeanis has a boyfrend !!! Come on, fess up !!
Faithful, LOL !!!

Hey if I am naughty, does that mean you will give me lots of Easter eggs ????

Jeanie

angelica wrote:

Oh wow. For me personally, giving birth naturally was literally a traumatic experience. Here I go into gory details again, so NMyTree, and other squeamish types look away...... Anyway, I expected fully to have an epidural for the birth and told my doctor in advance that I did not want to have an episiotomy. For those who don't know what that is, it is the incision that is sometimes routinely used to cut the "area" so as to facilitate birth. Being my "strong woman" self, I agreed with the going word at the time which said that doctors did that incision routinely, to prevent tearing, and supposedly also to throw another procedure in with the costs. I'd heard that tearing was actually rare so this procedure was supposedly uncalled for much of them time. I told my doctor far in advance I did not want the incision which causes so much pain healing after the birth. So there I was, my labour proceeded so quickly that I could not get an epidural in time. I have a VERY low tolerance for pain. The baby would not come out--as he moved through the birth canal ready for his debut into the world, apparently the area I did not want cut was not allowing his birth. I was in the most immense pain I've ever experienced, so when the doctor asked me if I was willing to take a few inch slice in my "child-birthing" area, I gleefully screamed "yes!" Compared to the labour pains, and a child being essentially stuck in my vagina, I didn't even notice the pain of the incision. So, anyway........what was it you were asking, again, lucylespian?

YUP!!! And there it is girl!!! The very reason why I'll never give birth!!!
Babies are beautiful little creatures, and kids are lovely, but be dammned I'm going through anything even remotely like that!! Call me chicken, I don't care! I much prefer to think of myself as well informed!! I can barely cope with the gynaecologist and all their tortures!! Be damned I'm gonna put myself in a situation that reminds me so much of the movie Aliens.