its actually 500,000 that evacuated and those fires have nothing to do with global warming.
o and NO you say? that city was built below sea level. yup, blame that on global warming too
...
Southern California is a mirage. Remove the aquaduct and it returns to it's natural state... a desert by the sea.
The wildfires are a natural occurance. The Santa Ana conditions have existed ever since those canyons were formed. The Chaparral needs to burn... the sumac leaves form oily droplets in order to ignite fires, like magnifying glasses. Many native plants need fire in order to sprout.
when you choose to build your home in this environment, you need to learn to accept them.
The same goes for those who build houses on the beach... they should not complain when Mother Ocean re-claims her sand and takes their homes with it.
Granted.. arson is 100% man's responsibility. But the conditions... the winds, the temperatures, the humidity (or lack thereof), the terrain, the landscaping... that's all on Nature.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Okay... in order to teach the rest of us... can you supply me with the technical data of your compound... not specifics... just area and capacities... ball park figures.. so I will know what I will need to go solar? How many panels... how much output each produces... regulators... condensors... all that stuff.
And how much water do I need to store and where can I store it? How long will it last and how do I reclaim it.
a common household can get by with approximately 1800 watts. panels vary. mine produce about 130 watts and i produce an average of 12 Kw from my 16 panels. the wind generators produce about 800 watts and are a great suppliment for cloudy days. i don't think anyone needs a set-up like mine. i insist on having my waterbed and i also have a large freezer so my system is about twice as big as the average person would need. most people use 12 batteries. you can use marine batteries from walmart but you get what you pay for. you'll probably need to replace them in a few years. i've heard the batteries used in electric cars are great and one company (i can't remember the name) produces "green" batteries that will last 20 years. you can find them on the tree hugger website. i think enenflow sent me the link so he may remember. your best bet is to find someone in your area who is solar and see who did their system and if they're happy with it. as far as the inverter goes; i use the "outback" model and it's been working perfectly. if you want 220 volts you'll need 2. as far as water; my water comes from the ocean of water under the great basin. i don't see a problem for myself. if you remove the hurricane from the katrina disaster; you'll get an idea of what rising waters will cause. oil; gas; chemicals; sewage; and dead bodies floating out of their graves mixed with the water causing the entire area to be a toxic waste area. something not mentioned is in alaska where towns have been evacuated; the harbour where it's deep enough for the ships that bring supplies is now a mile or so from the shore line. this means ships must be offloaded on to small boats that can opperate in the shallower water.
anyway; there are may efficient solar water distillers that will take care of the water problem.
if i didn't answer all your questions; let me know.
a common household can get by with approximately 1800 watts. panels vary. mine produce about 130 watts and i produce an average of 12 Kw from my 16 panels. the wind generators produce about 800 watts and are a great suppliment for cloudy days. i don't think anyone needs a set-up like mine. i insist on having my waterbed and i also have a large freezer so my system is about twice as big as the average person would need. most people use 12 batteries. you can use marine batteries from walmart but you get what you pay for. you'll probably need to replace them in a few years. i've heard the batteries used in electric cars are great and one company (i can't remember the name) produces "green" batteries that will last 20 years. you can find them on the tree hugger website. i think enenflow sent me the link so he may remember. your best bet is to find someone in your area who is solar and see who did their system and if they're happy with it. as far as the inverter goes; i use the "outback" model and it's been working perfectly. if you want 220 volts you'll need 2. as far as water; my water comes from the ocean of water under the great basin. i don't see a problem for myself. if you remove the hurricane from the katrina disaster; you'll get an idea of what rising waters will cause. oil; gas; chemicals; sewage; and dead bodies floating out of their graves mixed with the water causing the entire area to be a toxic waste area. something not mentioned is in alaska where towns have been evacuated; the harbour where it's deep enough for the ships that bring supplies is now a mile or so from the shore line. this means ships must be offloaded on to small boats that can opperate in the shallower water.
anyway; there are may efficient solar water distillers that will take care of the water problem.
if i didn't answer all your questions; let me know.
...
So... 16 panels... a windmill (or 2)... and a dozen or so batteries will supply the needs of a... 1,300 sq. ft. single family residence? But, it's all dependent on where you live. If you live in Seattle... solar isn't such a good idea, right? Except in the Summer, when the days are longer and the Sun cuts a higher arc.
Well, like i said... Good Luck in your survival in the desert thing. I really don't want to have to kill someone 4 years from now for some water.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
So... 16 panels... a windmill (or 2)... and a dozen or so batteries will supply the needs of a... 1,300 sq. ft. single family residence? But, it's all dependent on where you live. If you live in Seattle... solar isn't such a good idea, right? Except in the Summer, when the days are longer and the Sun cuts a higher arc.
Well, like i said... Good Luck in your survival in the desert thing. I really don't want to have to kill someone 4 years from now for some water.
16 panels and 2 wind generators with 16 batteries will supply more than enough electricity for a ranch in northern arizona. i use a lot of electricity because it's free. seattle doesn't have the sun but it has enough wind. that's why i said someone local should evaluate what your resources are. areas with no sun usually have wind. i use wind generators made in canada which are 3 phase. an 400 watt generator will set you back about $700.00. that's what i paid for mine. if you have 1300 sq ft and only 2 adults; you should be able to supply all your power needs if you use the flourescent bulbs and conserve a little; with 2 generators. i believe you always have at least a 12 mph wind there so you could hook right into your panel and sell power back to your power company when you're not using it. most states now require net metering which means the power company has to pay you what they charge you. the new generators are much quieter than the older ones. btw; the generators don't have to be wired as 3 phase. mine are wired for 24 volts.
if you need more info; let me know.
(edit: it's a 400 watt generator that cost me $700; i mistakenly put 800 watt. sorry)
16 panels and 2 wind generators with 16 batteries will supply more than enough electricity for a ranch in northern arizona. i use a lot of electricity because it's free. seattle doesn't have the sun but it has enough wind. that's why i said someone local should evaluate what your resources are. areas with no sun usually have wind. i use wind generators made in canada which are 3 phase. an 800 watt generator will set you back about $700.00. that's what i paid for mine. if you have 1300 sq ft and only 2 adults; you should be able to supply all your power needs if you use the flourescent bulbs and conserve a little; with 2 generators. i believe you always have at least a 12 mph wind there so you could hook right into your panel and sell power back to your power company when you're not using it. most states now require net metering which means the power company has to pay you what they charge you. the new generators are much quieter than the older ones. btw; the generators don't have to be wired as 3 phase. mine are wired for 24 volts.
if you need more info; let me know.
...
What about maintanence requirements and costs?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
What about maintanence requirements and costs?
every once in a while; i take a squeegee on an expanding handle and clean the panels. about once a month or so. every month i check the water in the batteries and make sure there isn't dirt (dust) building on top. if there is i take a brush with soap and clean them.
that's it. i had the squeegee so there hasn't been any cost. my panels are guarenteed for 20 years and i think the wind generators are longer. maybe 25 years but don't quote me on that. if i wasn't moving i'd have to replace these batteries after about 8 years depending on how i maintain them. if i run them almost empty (power wise) and then charge them, they won't last as long. if i keep them above 50% they'll last longer. at the new ranch in nevada i'll use the green batteries. (the manufacturing doesn't effect the enviornment). the new ranch is far from being desert. what isn't great basin national forest is BLM land. i have 2 fishing ponds and 6 springs. the property is also a historical monument because it was a pony express stagecoach stop. i plan to restore the stage stop and open up to the public.
The fundamental reason those models underestimate the acceleration of climate change is because you cannot accurately model feedback cycles.
Climate change is not LINEAR in its progression.
Like almost every natural phenomenon, global warming is interrelated with millions of processes and events.
When one variable in the system changes (like say, temperatures increasing) it affects millions or billions of indiviual organisms, ecosystems, and climatic processes ...
when each one of those is then affected by this new input (the change in temperature), their OUTPUT will be different.
You can't very well model that!
And that is what is happenening.
As climate gets warmer, negative feedback cycles begin, and things get worse faster.
:(
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
16 panels and 2 wind generators with 16 batteries will supply more than enough electricity for a ranch in northern arizona. i use a lot of electricity because it's free. seattle doesn't have the sun but it has enough wind. that's why i said someone local should evaluate what your resources are. areas with no sun usually have wind. i use wind generators made in canada which are 3 phase. an 800 watt generator will set you back about $700.00. that's what i paid for mine. if you have 1300 sq ft and only 2 adults; you should be able to supply all your power needs if you use the flourescent bulbs and conserve a little; with 2 generators. i believe you always have at least a 12 mph wind there so you could hook right into your panel and sell power back to your power company when you're not using it. most states now require net metering which means the power company has to pay you what they charge you. the new generators are much quieter than the older ones. btw; the generators don't have to be wired as 3 phase. mine are wired for 24 volts.
if you need more info; let me know.
Do you run any air conditioning on your ranch? Is it neccessary or concidered a luxury?
More disasters are just natures way of saying "fuck with me and I'll fuck you back".. I guess I'm spoiled though because the Midwest will be the only part of the world that will actually benefit from global warming.
It'll will all balance itself out in the end. We might not be there though..
Do you run any air conditioning on your ranch? Is it neccessary or concidered a luxury?
What was the capital cost of your setup/panels?
we use evaporative coolers here. some people use air con but those are usually transplants from back east.
keeping in mind that my set-up is TWICE what the average american household needs and i have a waterbed (1500 watts) and a massive freezer full of meat; i'll give you my costs; then my neighbour's house which is about 1300 sq ft and it's a retired couple on 8 acres.
my initial cost was $26,000
within 2 weeks i received a rebate from the local power company of $4200
i also had state and federal solar tax incentives.
i'm depreciating my investment for i think 5 years too
and my average monthly electric bill at the last place was $262.
i use more electricity here
my neighbour paid about $9000 and has
7 100 watt panels
1 400 watt wind generator
1 outback inverter
12 walmart marine batteries
he worked with the installer to save money. he got the same rebates and incentives i did.
More disasters are just natures way of saying "fuck with me and I'll fuck you back".. I guess I'm spoiled though because the Midwest will be the only part of the world that will actually benefit from global warming.
It'll will all balance itself out in the end. We might not be there though..
and that's exactly what's happening.
i left illinois for the mountains because chicago is the worst place to be. first; chicago is built on fill. it was originally a swamp. the rise in lake level has been effecting the coastline since the 80's but the 90's was worse. people in highland park and glenco were complaining because they owned these multi million dollar houses and they were losing it to lake michigan. (i lived there).
i expect a river from kenosha to the indiana dunes wide flowing through illinois into the mississippi river. time will tell if i'm right.
The fundamental reason those models underestimate the acceleration of climate change is because you cannot accurately model feedback cycles.
Climate change is not LINEAR in its progression.
Like almost every natural phenomenon, global warming is interrelated with millions of processes and events.
When one variable in the system changes (like say, temperatures increasing) it affects millions or billions of indiviual organisms, ecosystems, and climatic processes ...
when each one of those is then affected by this new input (the change in temperature), their OUTPUT will be different.
You can't very well model that!
And that is what is happenening.
As climate gets warmer, negative feedback cycles begin, and things get worse faster.
:(
when you factor in all the variables; you can model it. i've been telling you what's going to happen for years now. my model hasn't been wrong yet. this melt water is distributing weight around the globe and the change in pressures from the weight are going to trigger earthquakes. after getting shook up a bit; volcanos will begin to become active.
i mean really, just think...we are basically at war over/about oil.....we are killing our planet by disrupting it's climate so horribly with fossil fuels - aka oil....so yes, when WILL we learn to end this dependence on this resource? seriously...what more do we need to KNOW we must stop relying on oil for our energy needs? yikes...if we poured all the BILLIONS of dollars spent on this ridiculous war into R&D for alternative fuel sources, well we'd be living with a whole new, effective, sustainable, clean-usage energy source....and have a lot more people on the planet not devastated or lost to war over this issue.
i agree with everything that you have said here. the billions we're spending propping up evil, nasty regimes in the middle east, should be spent on science to find alternative energy sources for transport and industry. once we stop relying on foreign oil and gas, we can get the hell out of the middle east and leave them for a few hundred years to sort out their problems and reform. let them blow the hell out of each other for as long as they like. we are so busy sticking our noses where it doesn't belong, we can't smell the rot that is happening in our country.
i agree with everything that you have said here. the billions we're spending propping up evil, nasty regimes in the middle east, should be spent on science to find alternative energy sources for transport and industry. once we stop relying on foreign oil and gas, we can get the hell out of the middle east and leave them for a few hundred years to sort out their problems and reform. let them blow the hell out of each other for as long as they like. we are so busy sticking our noses where it doesn't belong, we can't smell the rot that is happening in our country.
why would we be at war for oil when oil is on it's way out? production has peaked and we all know it'll be a thing of the past. we've already perfected alternative energy for private and commercial applications. diesel engines can run better on used cooking oil so we've got that solved for transport. people can use electric cars in cities so we've pretty much have everything covered. OH; except for getting the people to use these new technologies. we're still waiting for all of you to do your part.
and that's exactly what's happening.
i left illinois for the mountains because chicago is the worst place to be. first; chicago is built on fill. it was originally a swamp. the rise in lake level has been effecting the coastline since the 80's but the 90's was worse. people in highland park and glenco were complaining because they owned these multi million dollar houses and they were losing it to lake michigan. (i lived there).
i expect a river from kenosha to the indiana dunes wide flowing through illinois into the mississippi river. time will tell if i'm right.
I'm pretty sure the great lakes have been shrinking.. where on earth are you getting this info from??? Eventually the great lakes will no longer exist as Niagra falls erodes away and everything drains into the ocean.. the great lakes are just leftover melted ice from the ice age.
Sure it fluctuates, and may have been on the rise when you lived here, but global warming WILL NOT cause the great lakes to rise. Lake Michigan is 577 feet ABOVE see level and will eventually all drain into the oceans.. Haven't you seen iRobot where there is a futuristic dried up lake Michigan???
why would we be at war for oil when oil is on it's way out? .
of course it's about the oil, blood soaked oil. it's certainly not about the sand.
you ask this almost with surprise. as though i am the only person who feels this way. this has already been debated to death on here.
unless of course, you believe there really were weapons of mass destruction and saddam will use them against us all as soon as he rises from the dead?
then when the fact there were no WMD found, we were expected to buy the story of "democractizing the middle east" a ridiculous notion for anyone familiar with the nation of Iraq. bush and his oil clique have brought a genuine holocaust to the people of Iraq. all for stealing oil from a third world country. There are now an estimated 900,000 dead innocent cilivian Iraqis and almost 6,000,000 homeless refugees. The country has been laid waste, and the infrastructure and economy destroyed.
so far, the occupation of Iraq has cost the US $510 billion. For that amount of money, the US could have gone a long way to replacing every gasoline powered car in the US with an electric model and blanked the country with solar panels and wind turbines. but, no, that would not be profitable for the arms dealers and oil companies that now call the shots in Washington.
we're still waiting for all of you to do your part.
how do you know we are not? who is we're? nothing pisses me off more than people who make assumptions about other people and the way they live. you have no idea.
when my family did extensions on our home, many changes were made. to name a few..
solar panels were installed and our hot water energy consumption has been decreased by 80%.
got rid of the clothes drier, turned off the second fridge, turned off anything not in use, insulated everything, changed shower heads in the bathrooms, installed dual flush toilet cisterns, new generation fluorescent tubes, that use 80% less energy to produce the same light. installed extra rain water tanks, you name it we did it. they are just a few of the changes we made.
I am confunsed here... someone needs to point out the part where someone here blames President Bush for Global Warming. The closest thing I can find is Suzanne saying it's a shame that the current administration has spent the past 8 years doing nothing about it... which, i agreee is wrong in the sense that it hasn't actually been a total of 8 years (more like 6 3/4 years) and it wasn't until recently that this administration has even admitted that Global warming is indded, occuring.
...
Will the Bush supporters please, point me towards the statement that says Bush is to blame for 'Global Warming'? Thanx.
Thank you, Cosmo. I figured it will be 8 years of not doing much by the time this administration is out because Cheney still says we need to debate the issue. Sorry, wasn't clear on that.
Yes, I wasn't saying that Bush was responsible for global warming at all. Or blaming republicans. But unfortunately President Bush backed away from the Kyoto Treaty, and the White House has distorted the findings of federal climate scientists, playing down the threat of climate change. Energy policies have been written by representatives from the energy companies to forestall limits on climate polluters. And yes, for the person who wrote about wind energy, the White House did appropriate 3.4 million dollars for wind energy research and development in 2006, but he slashed the Department of Energy's research into alternative energy sources by $50 million dollars as a whole. In the 2007 budget, the white house has proposed the sale of $800 million dollars in park lands.
As far as what I'm doing to help, of course it's not enough either. I do take mass transit to work (p.s. The Bush administration is cutting Amtrack's budget by 103 million dollars in 2008), have changed all my light bulbs to energy efficient bulbs and am looking at hybrid cars for purchase this spring.
And what's with all the Suzy stuff? lol! :rolleyes:
"Where there is sacrifice there is someone collecting the sacrificial offerings."-- Ayn Rand
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
Editorial Note:
To correct... the Permian Mass Extinction occurred some 250 Million years ago, not 25 Million as earlier noted. The causes of the Permian Extinction are in dispute so it cannot be singularily attribute to climatic cycles. Plate Tectonics, Volcanic or impact events are not considered 'cyclical'.
The Great Extinction that ended the reign of the Dinosaurs occurred some 65 Million years ago... about 185 Million Years after the Permian Extinction.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm pretty sure the great lakes have been shrinking.. where on earth are you getting this info from??? Eventually the great lakes will no longer exist as Niagra falls erodes away and everything drains into the ocean.. the great lakes are just leftover melted ice from the ice age.
Sure it fluctuates, and may have been on the rise when you lived here, but global warming WILL NOT cause the great lakes to rise. Lake Michigan is 577 feet ABOVE see level and will eventually all drain into the oceans.. Haven't you seen iRobot where there is a futuristic dried up lake Michigan???
the great lakes are growing. if i said shrinking i'm sorry. lake michigan is 577 ft asl but look at its watershed. water from several states drain into lake michigan. as the ice melts it puts humidity into the air which in turn will bring rains. why do you think niagra falls exists? the biggest factor here is the fault that everyone ignores. i expect an earthquake to be the biggest cause of the river i mentioned. i haven't see irobot. i'm sure it was as factual as ghostbusters.
the great lakes are growing. if i said shrinking i'm sorry. lake michigan is 577 ft asl but look at its watershed. water from several states drain into lake michigan. as the ice melts it puts humidity into the air which in turn will bring rains. why do you think niagra falls exists? the biggest factor here is the fault that everyone ignores. i expect an earthquake to be the biggest cause of the river i mentioned. i haven't see irobot. i'm sure it was as factual as ghostbusters.
and that's exactly what's happening.
i left illinois for the mountains because chicago is the worst place to be. first; chicago is built on fill. it was originally a swamp. the rise in lake level has been effecting the coastline since the 80's but the 90's was worse. people in highland park and glenco were complaining because they owned these multi million dollar houses and they were losing it to lake michigan. (i lived there).
i expect a river from kenosha to the indiana dunes wide flowing through illinois into the mississippi river. time will tell if i'm right.
well I think you're wrong. chicago is one of the best places to be. we have no natural disasters. (tornadoes near the city are rare, no earthquakes, no hurricanes, no risk of wildfires). seriously how can chicago be the worst place to be? that makes no sense. I'll give you two plces that are much much much worse. Californian and Florida. and those are states not cities.
if anything, lake michigan is going to recede not flood the city.
Editorial Note:
To correct... the Permian Mass Extinction occurred some 250 Million years ago, not 25 Million as earlier noted. The causes of the Permian Extinction are in dispute so it cannot be singularily attribute to climatic cycles. Plate Tectonics, Volcanic or impact events are not considered 'cyclical'.
The Great Extinction that ended the reign of the Dinosaurs occurred some 65 Million years ago... about 185 Million Years after the Permian Extinction.
i got the dates mixed up. i'll do that sometimes. as much as i'd like to be; i'm not perfect.
in 1998; an expedition to greenland found the evidence that the siberian flatts caused global warming to the point where the frozen methane melted and added the additional gasses to raise the earths temperature even more.
true; this is not accepted by all scientists. global warming isn't even accepted by all scientists; but that's what the evidence shows. there's a good show on the science discovery channel which goes into great depth and i highly reccomend it. it will answer all your questions. i've looked over the evidence and i believe what is before my eyes. the earlier theories don't have sufficient evidence to make a firm conclusion and that's why everyone was left guessing. the layer of methane found in greenland is enough evidence for me.
of course it's about the oil, blood soaked oil. it's certainly not about the sand.
you ask this almost with surprise. as though i am the only person who feels this way. this has already been debated to death on here.
unless of course, you believe there really were weapons of mass destruction and saddam will use them against us all as soon as he rises from the dead?
then when the fact there were no WMD found, we were expected to buy the story of "democractizing the middle east" a ridiculous notion for anyone familiar with the nation of Iraq. bush and his oil clique have brought a genuine holocaust to the people of Iraq. all for stealing oil from a third world country. There are now an estimated 900,000 dead innocent cilivian Iraqis and almost 6,000,000 homeless refugees. The country has been laid waste, and the infrastructure and economy destroyed.
so far, the occupation of Iraq has cost the US $510 billion. For that amount of money, the US could have gone a long way to replacing every gasoline powered car in the US with an electric model and blanked the country with solar panels and wind turbines. but, no, that would not be profitable for the arms dealers and oil companies that now call the shots in Washington.
killing saddam was a personal vendetta for bush. bush Sr gave WMD to saddam so we know he HAD them. clinton gave him biologicals which he used on his own villages. but the war will bring freedom to an entire nation that was under the control of a dictator. we freed europe from a dictator twice in the last century. look at the cost of those wars to the us. oh; but those were white people. it's ok if we bring freedom to white people. that's what you're about.
everyone has access to electric cars. drive accross the country and you'll see wind farms covering the landscape. there are even wind farms off the coasts. we have both active and passive solar everything from electricity to hot water to food dehydrators. state and federal governments give tax credits to make solar options cheaper for you. the laws in most states have been changed to require NET METERING so if you go solar; you can sell back extra power at the same price you pay for electricity. wtf more do you want? the only thing left is for the government to REQUIRE you to make the solar upgrades.
how do you know we are not? who is we're? nothing pisses me off more than people who make assumptions about other people and the way they live. you have no idea.
when my family did extensions on our home, many changes were made. to name a few..
solar panels were installed and our hot water energy consumption has been decreased by 80%.
got rid of the clothes drier, turned off the second fridge, turned off anything not in use, insulated everything, changed shower heads in the bathrooms, installed dual flush toilet cisterns, new generation fluorescent tubes, that use 80% less energy to produce the same light. installed extra rain water tanks, you name it we did it. they are just a few of the changes we made.
my point is, we are doing our part.
if you do; then i wasn't talking to you. "we're" are the people that have made the changes. we've spent the money to reduce our carbon footprint because we want our grandchildren to inherit a world that is livable. i want my greatgrandchildren to be able to play outside without special suits. WE'RE the people trying to make a difference and trying to save a dying planet. if you're doing your part; then this wasn't directed at you and YOU are a part of WE'RE.
and i can post sites showing chicago will be gone. this is a great time to be a scientist. all you have to do is disagree with mainstream and you get publicity. your 15 minutes of fame so to speak.
if you build a website; they will look at it.
and i can post sites showing chicago will be gone. this is a great time to be a scientist. all you have to do is disagree with mainstream and you get publicity. your 15 minutes of fame so to speak.
if you build a website; they will look at it.
ok then post it. you are one who is more then agreeing our fresh water source will soon be gone. so how is this one filling up?
Comments
thanks for the most useless "fact" of the day :rolleyes:
Southern California is a mirage. Remove the aquaduct and it returns to it's natural state... a desert by the sea.
The wildfires are a natural occurance. The Santa Ana conditions have existed ever since those canyons were formed. The Chaparral needs to burn... the sumac leaves form oily droplets in order to ignite fires, like magnifying glasses. Many native plants need fire in order to sprout.
when you choose to build your home in this environment, you need to learn to accept them.
The same goes for those who build houses on the beach... they should not complain when Mother Ocean re-claims her sand and takes their homes with it.
Granted.. arson is 100% man's responsibility. But the conditions... the winds, the temperatures, the humidity (or lack thereof), the terrain, the landscaping... that's all on Nature.
Hail, Hail!!!
a common household can get by with approximately 1800 watts. panels vary. mine produce about 130 watts and i produce an average of 12 Kw from my 16 panels. the wind generators produce about 800 watts and are a great suppliment for cloudy days. i don't think anyone needs a set-up like mine. i insist on having my waterbed and i also have a large freezer so my system is about twice as big as the average person would need. most people use 12 batteries. you can use marine batteries from walmart but you get what you pay for. you'll probably need to replace them in a few years. i've heard the batteries used in electric cars are great and one company (i can't remember the name) produces "green" batteries that will last 20 years. you can find them on the tree hugger website. i think enenflow sent me the link so he may remember. your best bet is to find someone in your area who is solar and see who did their system and if they're happy with it. as far as the inverter goes; i use the "outback" model and it's been working perfectly. if you want 220 volts you'll need 2. as far as water; my water comes from the ocean of water under the great basin. i don't see a problem for myself. if you remove the hurricane from the katrina disaster; you'll get an idea of what rising waters will cause. oil; gas; chemicals; sewage; and dead bodies floating out of their graves mixed with the water causing the entire area to be a toxic waste area. something not mentioned is in alaska where towns have been evacuated; the harbour where it's deep enough for the ships that bring supplies is now a mile or so from the shore line. this means ships must be offloaded on to small boats that can opperate in the shallower water.
anyway; there are may efficient solar water distillers that will take care of the water problem.
if i didn't answer all your questions; let me know.
alaska; vermont; and the indian islands.
So... 16 panels... a windmill (or 2)... and a dozen or so batteries will supply the needs of a... 1,300 sq. ft. single family residence? But, it's all dependent on where you live. If you live in Seattle... solar isn't such a good idea, right? Except in the Summer, when the days are longer and the Sun cuts a higher arc.
Well, like i said... Good Luck in your survival in the desert thing. I really don't want to have to kill someone 4 years from now for some water.
Hail, Hail!!!
16 panels and 2 wind generators with 16 batteries will supply more than enough electricity for a ranch in northern arizona. i use a lot of electricity because it's free. seattle doesn't have the sun but it has enough wind. that's why i said someone local should evaluate what your resources are. areas with no sun usually have wind. i use wind generators made in canada which are 3 phase. an 400 watt generator will set you back about $700.00. that's what i paid for mine. if you have 1300 sq ft and only 2 adults; you should be able to supply all your power needs if you use the flourescent bulbs and conserve a little; with 2 generators. i believe you always have at least a 12 mph wind there so you could hook right into your panel and sell power back to your power company when you're not using it. most states now require net metering which means the power company has to pay you what they charge you. the new generators are much quieter than the older ones. btw; the generators don't have to be wired as 3 phase. mine are wired for 24 volts.
if you need more info; let me know.
(edit: it's a 400 watt generator that cost me $700; i mistakenly put 800 watt. sorry)
vermont?
lake-front property is considered coastal?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
What about maintanence requirements and costs?
Hail, Hail!!!
maybe it was virginia. wherever houses were falling into the ocean. somewhere in the north east coast region.
every once in a while; i take a squeegee on an expanding handle and clean the panels. about once a month or so. every month i check the water in the batteries and make sure there isn't dirt (dust) building on top. if there is i take a brush with soap and clean them.
that's it. i had the squeegee so there hasn't been any cost. my panels are guarenteed for 20 years and i think the wind generators are longer. maybe 25 years but don't quote me on that. if i wasn't moving i'd have to replace these batteries after about 8 years depending on how i maintain them. if i run them almost empty (power wise) and then charge them, they won't last as long. if i keep them above 50% they'll last longer. at the new ranch in nevada i'll use the green batteries. (the manufacturing doesn't effect the enviornment). the new ranch is far from being desert. what isn't great basin national forest is BLM land. i have 2 fishing ponds and 6 springs. the property is also a historical monument because it was a pony express stagecoach stop. i plan to restore the stage stop and open up to the public.
Climate change is not LINEAR in its progression.
Like almost every natural phenomenon, global warming is interrelated with millions of processes and events.
When one variable in the system changes (like say, temperatures increasing) it affects millions or billions of indiviual organisms, ecosystems, and climatic processes ...
when each one of those is then affected by this new input (the change in temperature), their OUTPUT will be different.
You can't very well model that!
And that is what is happenening.
As climate gets warmer, negative feedback cycles begin, and things get worse faster.
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Do you run any air conditioning on your ranch? Is it neccessary or concidered a luxury?
What was the capital cost of your setup/panels?
You got to spend it all
It'll will all balance itself out in the end. We might not be there though..
we use evaporative coolers here. some people use air con but those are usually transplants from back east.
keeping in mind that my set-up is TWICE what the average american household needs and i have a waterbed (1500 watts) and a massive freezer full of meat; i'll give you my costs; then my neighbour's house which is about 1300 sq ft and it's a retired couple on 8 acres.
my initial cost was $26,000
within 2 weeks i received a rebate from the local power company of $4200
i also had state and federal solar tax incentives.
i'm depreciating my investment for i think 5 years too
and my average monthly electric bill at the last place was $262.
i use more electricity here
my neighbour paid about $9000 and has
7 100 watt panels
1 400 watt wind generator
1 outback inverter
12 walmart marine batteries
he worked with the installer to save money. he got the same rebates and incentives i did.
and that's exactly what's happening.
i left illinois for the mountains because chicago is the worst place to be. first; chicago is built on fill. it was originally a swamp. the rise in lake level has been effecting the coastline since the 80's but the 90's was worse. people in highland park and glenco were complaining because they owned these multi million dollar houses and they were losing it to lake michigan. (i lived there).
i expect a river from kenosha to the indiana dunes wide flowing through illinois into the mississippi river. time will tell if i'm right.
when you factor in all the variables; you can model it. i've been telling you what's going to happen for years now. my model hasn't been wrong yet. this melt water is distributing weight around the globe and the change in pressures from the weight are going to trigger earthquakes. after getting shook up a bit; volcanos will begin to become active.
i agree with everything that you have said here. the billions we're spending propping up evil, nasty regimes in the middle east, should be spent on science to find alternative energy sources for transport and industry. once we stop relying on foreign oil and gas, we can get the hell out of the middle east and leave them for a few hundred years to sort out their problems and reform. let them blow the hell out of each other for as long as they like. we are so busy sticking our noses where it doesn't belong, we can't smell the rot that is happening in our country.
why would we be at war for oil when oil is on it's way out? production has peaked and we all know it'll be a thing of the past. we've already perfected alternative energy for private and commercial applications. diesel engines can run better on used cooking oil so we've got that solved for transport. people can use electric cars in cities so we've pretty much have everything covered. OH; except for getting the people to use these new technologies. we're still waiting for all of you to do your part.
Sure it fluctuates, and may have been on the rise when you lived here, but global warming WILL NOT cause the great lakes to rise. Lake Michigan is 577 feet ABOVE see level and will eventually all drain into the oceans.. Haven't you seen iRobot where there is a futuristic dried up lake Michigan???
you ask this almost with surprise. as though i am the only person who feels this way. this has already been debated to death on here.
unless of course, you believe there really were weapons of mass destruction and saddam will use them against us all as soon as he rises from the dead?
then when the fact there were no WMD found, we were expected to buy the story of "democractizing the middle east" a ridiculous notion for anyone familiar with the nation of Iraq. bush and his oil clique have brought a genuine holocaust to the people of Iraq. all for stealing oil from a third world country. There are now an estimated 900,000 dead innocent cilivian Iraqis and almost 6,000,000 homeless refugees. The country has been laid waste, and the infrastructure and economy destroyed.
so far, the occupation of Iraq has cost the US $510 billion. For that amount of money, the US could have gone a long way to replacing every gasoline powered car in the US with an electric model and blanked the country with solar panels and wind turbines. but, no, that would not be profitable for the arms dealers and oil companies that now call the shots in Washington.
how do you know we are not? who is we're? nothing pisses me off more than people who make assumptions about other people and the way they live. you have no idea.
when my family did extensions on our home, many changes were made. to name a few..
solar panels were installed and our hot water energy consumption has been decreased by 80%.
got rid of the clothes drier, turned off the second fridge, turned off anything not in use, insulated everything, changed shower heads in the bathrooms, installed dual flush toilet cisterns, new generation fluorescent tubes, that use 80% less energy to produce the same light. installed extra rain water tanks, you name it we did it. they are just a few of the changes we made.
my point is, we are doing our part.
Thank you, Cosmo. I figured it will be 8 years of not doing much by the time this administration is out because Cheney still says we need to debate the issue. Sorry, wasn't clear on that.
Yes, I wasn't saying that Bush was responsible for global warming at all. Or blaming republicans. But unfortunately President Bush backed away from the Kyoto Treaty, and the White House has distorted the findings of federal climate scientists, playing down the threat of climate change. Energy policies have been written by representatives from the energy companies to forestall limits on climate polluters. And yes, for the person who wrote about wind energy, the White House did appropriate 3.4 million dollars for wind energy research and development in 2006, but he slashed the Department of Energy's research into alternative energy sources by $50 million dollars as a whole. In the 2007 budget, the white house has proposed the sale of $800 million dollars in park lands.
As far as what I'm doing to help, of course it's not enough either. I do take mass transit to work (p.s. The Bush administration is cutting Amtrack's budget by 103 million dollars in 2008), have changed all my light bulbs to energy efficient bulbs and am looking at hybrid cars for purchase this spring.
And what's with all the Suzy stuff? lol! :rolleyes:
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
the financial impacts are massive but the money-makers still make money so it's all good ...
To correct... the Permian Mass Extinction occurred some 250 Million years ago, not 25 Million as earlier noted. The causes of the Permian Extinction are in dispute so it cannot be singularily attribute to climatic cycles. Plate Tectonics, Volcanic or impact events are not considered 'cyclical'.
The Great Extinction that ended the reign of the Dinosaurs occurred some 65 Million years ago... about 185 Million Years after the Permian Extinction.
Hail, Hail!!!
the great lakes are growing. if i said shrinking i'm sorry. lake michigan is 577 ft asl but look at its watershed. water from several states drain into lake michigan. as the ice melts it puts humidity into the air which in turn will bring rains. why do you think niagra falls exists? the biggest factor here is the fault that everyone ignores. i expect an earthquake to be the biggest cause of the river i mentioned. i haven't see irobot. i'm sure it was as factual as ghostbusters.
http://environment.newscientist.com/article/mg19426064.100
well I think you're wrong. chicago is one of the best places to be. we have no natural disasters. (tornadoes near the city are rare, no earthquakes, no hurricanes, no risk of wildfires). seriously how can chicago be the worst place to be? that makes no sense. I'll give you two plces that are much much much worse. Californian and Florida. and those are states not cities.
if anything, lake michigan is going to recede not flood the city.
i got the dates mixed up. i'll do that sometimes. as much as i'd like to be; i'm not perfect.
in 1998; an expedition to greenland found the evidence that the siberian flatts caused global warming to the point where the frozen methane melted and added the additional gasses to raise the earths temperature even more.
true; this is not accepted by all scientists. global warming isn't even accepted by all scientists; but that's what the evidence shows. there's a good show on the science discovery channel which goes into great depth and i highly reccomend it. it will answer all your questions. i've looked over the evidence and i believe what is before my eyes. the earlier theories don't have sufficient evidence to make a firm conclusion and that's why everyone was left guessing. the layer of methane found in greenland is enough evidence for me.
killing saddam was a personal vendetta for bush. bush Sr gave WMD to saddam so we know he HAD them. clinton gave him biologicals which he used on his own villages. but the war will bring freedom to an entire nation that was under the control of a dictator. we freed europe from a dictator twice in the last century. look at the cost of those wars to the us. oh; but those were white people. it's ok if we bring freedom to white people. that's what you're about.
everyone has access to electric cars. drive accross the country and you'll see wind farms covering the landscape. there are even wind farms off the coasts. we have both active and passive solar everything from electricity to hot water to food dehydrators. state and federal governments give tax credits to make solar options cheaper for you. the laws in most states have been changed to require NET METERING so if you go solar; you can sell back extra power at the same price you pay for electricity. wtf more do you want? the only thing left is for the government to REQUIRE you to make the solar upgrades.
if you do; then i wasn't talking to you. "we're" are the people that have made the changes. we've spent the money to reduce our carbon footprint because we want our grandchildren to inherit a world that is livable. i want my greatgrandchildren to be able to play outside without special suits. WE'RE the people trying to make a difference and trying to save a dying planet. if you're doing your part; then this wasn't directed at you and YOU are a part of WE'RE.
and i can post sites showing chicago will be gone. this is a great time to be a scientist. all you have to do is disagree with mainstream and you get publicity. your 15 minutes of fame so to speak.
if you build a website; they will look at it.
ok then post it. you are one who is more then agreeing our fresh water source will soon be gone. so how is this one filling up?