surferdude, seriously, do take a wee look outside your own world.
I specifically mentioned the US and Canada. They are no longer patriachial societies. Socially they are nearly matriachial societies as evidenced by abortion laws and the number of single parent families led by mothers and the percentage that women are awarded child custody and longer life spans. While I'm taking a look outside my own world maybe you should be opening your eyes to the realities of the 21st century.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I specifically mentioned the US and Canada. They are no longer patriachial societies. Socially they are nearly matriachial societies as evidenced by abortion laws and the number of single parent families led by mothers and the percentage that women are awarded child custody and longer life spans. While I'm taking a look outside my own world maybe you should be opening your eyes to the realities of the 21st century.
i dont think any of those indicate a matriarchal society. abortion support is, far as i know, pretty evenly spread amongst men and women. single mothers are by far the absolute poorest people in america. women lose their jobs for getting pregnant. they make less than men for the same work. and notions of sex roles have easily survived notions of racial roles. longer life spans have nothing to do with patriarchy vs. matriarchy.... women have lived longer for as long as we can trace it. the only point you make that has any relevance is the child custody thing, but that has far more to do with the persistence of sex stereotypes i mentioned (women raise kids, men work) than any sort of female power play. i know you've got a chip on your shoulder becos of your custody battles, but just cos you got the short end of the gender stick doesn't mean women are engaged in some insidious plot to hold men down.
that said, it's not exactly patriarchal anymore, or if so it's only becos the holdovers havent really died off yet or such notions persist in the majority religious views (christianity). but women are far from dominating society and still are at a disadvantage in many ways. part of the problem is, as women are wont to do, they cant even figure out amongst themselves what the hell they want
then why dont you vote for more women? men dont have the votes to own every office unless some women are voting for them. get your sisters in line
funny you should say that conor. we actually had a state election here yesterday. alas my party did not have a woman representing them in my electorate.
anyhoo, you surely know that our elected officials are never beyond the vested interests and influence of others. so it wouldn't matter who 'my sisters' voted for. the state needs capital to run. and where does that capital come from?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I saw through your words how you minimized health, and how you minimized the woman's role in her own health: Taxes aside. You've got to remember, the topic is not only about abortion, but about a law passed that subjects the choice of a woman and her health to moralistic degradating legislation.
Pun intended.
as i saw through your words which minimize a human life into a "woman's health issue".
I'm not sure that the political arena is the place for me ss!
Would require me to participate in team sports if you like. Not my thing.
Think I'll stick to agitating as the will takes me or the situation requires it.
And supporting wherever I can or would want.
i'd vote for ya jeanie.
but just to make sure we're on the same page, can i ask what your stance is on the foreign private ownership of what i feel should essentially be state run infrastucture.
yeah you're born for something alright. just trying work out what that something is.
that's cos you're going at it backwards... with my innate genius the options are virtually unlimited. it'd be much easier to try and figure out what it isnt
I specifically mentioned the US and Canada. They are no longer patriachial societies. Socially they are nearly matriachial societies as evidenced by abortion laws and the number of single parent families led by mothers and the percentage that women are awarded child custody and longer life spans. While I'm taking a look outside my own world maybe you should be opening your eyes to the realities of the 21st century.
Lot of assuming going on. Good luck with that. I see you didn't bother to do any research. As I suspected. So seeing as we are speaking off the cuff, I reckon your summation of the current situation in Canada and the US is wrong. There ya go. I said it. I think you're wrong.
My eyes are wide open to the realities of the 21st Century. Clearly we just don't agree about what we are seeing.
i dont think any of those indicate a matriarchal society. abortion support is, far as i know, pretty evenly spread amongst men and women. single mothers are by far the absolute poorest people in america. women lose their jobs for getting pregnant. they make less than men for the same work. and notions of sex roles have easily survived notions of racial roles. longer life spans have nothing to do with patriarchy vs. matriarchy.... women have lived longer for as long as we can trace it. the only point you make that has any relevance is the child custody thing, but that has far more to do with the persistence of sex stereotypes i mentioned (women raise kids, men work) than any sort of female power play. i know you've got a chip on your shoulder becos of your custody battles, but just cos you got the short end of the gender stick doesn't mean women are engaged in some insidious plot to hold men down.
that said, it's not exactly patriarchal anymore, or if so it's only becos the holdovers havent really died off yet or such notions persist in the majority religious views (christianity). but women are far from dominating society and still are at a disadvantage in many ways. part of the problem is, as women are wont to do, they cant even figure out amongst themselves what the hell they want
WOW!!! I am agreeing with you twice in one day???????
Thanks ss, you know I reckon I pretty much agree with EVERYTHING you just said. Even the last bit to a degree!!
but just to make sure we're on the same page, can i ask what your stance is on the foreign private ownership of what i feel should essentially be state run infrastucture.
I think far too much of our infrastructure is currently in private foreign hands and I don't think we can really afford to continue allowing the sell off.
We are practically renting here these days!! Big business owns far too much.
I would love to see a return to more state run infrastructure. I would love to see more of Australia being owned by Australians. But I suspect that current trends to globalization has made this the case the world over. It's not about owning and running services from the country of origin anymore. It's all about the corporation owning all our asses. Most of them offshore corporations.
And interestingly, tying back to the subject of the thread, I couldn't help but wonder when I first read this what percentage of owners of and providers of ultrasounds are actually backing this law change? Lobbying for it even? Possibly even under the guises of religion? I wonder how many of them are part of the push? Because lets face it it's a finanacial boom for them. Is this whole thing just a clever rousse by corporations yet again?
that's cos you're going at it backwards... with my innate genius the options are virtually unlimited. it'd be much easier to try and figure out what it isnt
well i can see it isn't modesty conor, so i can strike that from my list.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think far too much of our infrastructure is currently in private foreign hands and I don't think we can really afford to continue allowing the sell off.
We are practically renting here these days!! Big business owns far too much.
I would love to see a return to more state run infrastructure. I would love to see more of Australia being owned by Australians. But I suspect that current trends to globalization has made this the case the world over. It's not about owning and running services from the country of origin anymore. It's all about the corporation owning all our asses. Most of them offshore corporations.
seems we are on the same page. despite my abhorrance of the capitalist system i don't particular care about the foreign ownership of PRIVATE companies. but when it comes to the infrastructure of a country, i believe that this is a government responsibility.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i dont think any of those indicate a matriarchal society. abortion support is, far as i know, pretty evenly spread amongst men and women. single mothers are by far the absolute poorest people in america. women lose their jobs for getting pregnant. they make less than men for the same work. and notions of sex roles have easily survived notions of racial roles. longer life spans have nothing to do with patriarchy vs. matriarchy.... women have lived longer for as long as we can trace it. the only point you make that has any relevance is the child custody thing, but that has far more to do with the persistence of sex stereotypes i mentioned (women raise kids, men work) than any sort of female power play. i know you've got a chip on your shoulder becos of your custody battles, but just cos you got the short end of the gender stick doesn't mean women are engaged in some insidious plot to hold men down.
that said, it's not exactly patriarchal anymore, or if so it's only becos the holdovers havent really died off yet or such notions persist in the majority religious views (christianity). but women are far from dominating society and still are at a disadvantage in many ways. part of the problem is, as women are wont to do, they cant even figure out amongst themselves what the hell they want
Mens shorter life expectancy is directly tied to their roles in society. Obviously a role with a much younger mortality age is not a good role for society to have provided.
Citing the low wages of single mothers is one sided as single fathers earn less than married men. It's not the sex that drives the lower wage but the person's role in life (single parent). I make less than I could because I have to (and willingly) place my son first.
As for abortion, it's not the support that abortion has between sexes but that the whole reproductive rights issue is completely one-sided favoring women. Abortion is just one part of reproductive rights.
Canadian and American societies are no longer patriachial societies. There are too many inequities on both sides of the equation. In Canada and the US it is all about the role you take on in life for how fairly society is going to treat you, and how much you respect yourself and demand society to treat you. Just like George Bush doesn't hate you because you're black, but rather because you are poor.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Mens shorter life expectancy is directly tied to their roles in society. Obviously a role with a much younger mortality age is not a good role for society to have provided.
Citing the low wages of single mothers is one sided as single fathers earn less than married men. It's not the sex that drives the lower wage but the person's role in life (single parent). I make less than I could because I have to (and willingly) place my son first.
As for abortion, it's not the support that abortion has between sexes but that the whole reproductive rights issue is completely one-sided favoring women. Abortion is just one part of reproductive rights.
Canadian and American societies are no longer patriachial societies. There are too many inequities on both sides of the equation. In Canada and the US it is all about the role you take on in life for how fairly society is going to treat you, and how much you respect yourself and demand society to treat you. Just like George Bush doesn't hate you because you're black, but rather because you are poor.
yes, but if single parent women make less than single parent men, that is a pretty tough thing to ignore. it's evening up, without a doubt, but there is no way this society is matriarchal. it might not be the iron clad patriarchy it used to be, but it hasnt really swung the other direction. women still have some ground to make up, but the gap is closing. reproductive rights aren't solely owned by women however. case in point: roe v. wade, decided by an all male supreme court. south carolina's ultrasound law voted in by an overwhelmingly male legislature. perhaps some of the people arguing reproductive rights use that as a justification, but that doesn't mean it has any basis in reality.
WOW!!! I am agreeing with you twice in one day???????
Thanks ss, you know I reckon I pretty much agree with EVERYTHING you just said. Even the last bit to a degree!!
i think you'd agree with me far more than you'd expect. im by and large a pretty reasonable guy. i just like to be provocative at times and play with stereotypes. i get a kick out of it. others get offended by it.
seems we are on the same page. despite my abhorrance of the capitalist system i don't particular care about the foreign ownership of PRIVATE companies. but when it comes to the infrastructure of a country, i believe that this is a government responsibility.
Agreed!
And my only issue with foreign ownership of PRIVATE companies is if there is too much foreign ownership of PRIVATE companies in a country. I'd prefer that things were more evenly balanced between locally owned and run private companies and foreign owned private companies.
BUT most definitely government should own and run a country's infrastructure. Well in this country and other evenly (???) governed societies at any rate.
And my only issue with foreign ownership of PRIVATE companies is if there is too much foreign ownership of PRIVATE companies in a country. I'd prefer that things were more evenly balanced between locally owned and run private companies and foreign owned private companies.
BUT most definitely government should own and run a country's infrastructure. Well in this country and other evenly (???) governed societies at any rate.
Are you saying that women's bodies are private companies and that the government should control that?
So anyway, stupidly, I did initially attempt to respond to ALL that you had to say here, but then I realized, why am I bothering?
"What we have here is a failure to communicate"
You have a nice day. I'm done.
I think the failure is yours. It seems you are incapable of addressing my points.
In the shadow of the light from a black sun
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
I think the failure is yours. It seems you are incapable of addressing my points.
and it seems you are incapable of letting things go. this is an issue where nobody has real "points," only beliefs. many have adequtely responded to your points. just becos you disagree with them doesn't mean their rebuttal is not reasonable or valid.
i think you'd agree with me far more than you'd expect. im by and large a pretty reasonable guy. i just like to be provocative at times and play with stereotypes. i get a kick out of it. others get offended by it.
Yes, I have noticed this ss. I didn't really ever have any expectations of you. Well except that you would speak your mind!
Easily. One need only ask the question: what does it mean to be human?
There are a number of valid answers to the question, and one's moral position on abortion will extend from that answer.
If you believe that to be human is to simply be a living combination of a sperm and an egg, then it's likely you'll believe abortion is unacceptable.
If you believe that to be human is to simply be a conceived human being, detached from its mother, then it's likely you'll believe abortion is acceptable.
If you believe that to be human is to simply be a creation of God bearing the name "man", then it's likely you'll believe abortion is unacceptable.
I think you are making a moral mistake by considering all of those viewpoints to be valid. How can it even be argued that a human is not a human from the moment it is conceived?
Who has the right to make such arbitrary declarations about when a human becomes a human?
If you believe that to be human is to have a will of your own and to be a living and thinking absolute, an agent whose survival and happiness belong only to yourself, then you'll have a bit more nuanced position wherein you hold the mother's will and happiness as primary and the fetus's potential will and happiness as exactly that -- a potentiality belonging soley to a mother's discretion.
But that's arbitrary. I could just as well decide that a human is not really a human until he or she has control of over its own behavior.
In the shadow of the light from a black sun
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
and it seems you are incapable of letting things go. this is an issue where nobody has real "points," only beliefs. many have adequtely responded to your points. just becos you disagree with them doesn't mean their rebuttal is not reasonable or valid.
Whatever you say there, chief. I have asked questions in this thread that none have yet answered.
And by the way, responding to responses is sort of what happens in threads like this. If you don't like it, maybe you oughtn't post in them in the first place.
In the shadow of the light from a black sun
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
Whatever you say there, chief. I have asked questions in this thread that none have yet answered.
And by the way, responding to responses is sort of what happens in threads like this. If you don't like it, maybe you oughtn't post in them in the first place.
point out your questions trau and i'll answer them for you.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The main one is the first that I asked in this thread: Why would anyone feel guilty having to look at the ultrasound before having an abortion?
In the shadow of the light from a black sun
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
The main one is the first that I asked in this thread: Why would anyone feel guilty having to look at the ultrasound before having an abortion?
i think it's more about feeling manipulated than feeling guilty. if i were asked to view an ultrasound during an abortion counselling session, i would have to wonder at the motivation behind it. knowing me as i do, i don't need to be shown the development of my embryo/foetus in order to make what is essentially the most importance and difficult decision of my life. i am aware of the stages. and besides, viewing an ultrasound would not change my mind on that decision.
next.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The main one is the first that I asked in this thread: Why would anyone feel guilty having to look at the ultrasound before having an abortion?
Most people that are objecting to the ultrasounds are objecting to them being mandated by the government. If a woman wants to have an ultrasound whether she keeps the baby or not then it should be her choice.
If you think that women take the issue of abortion with a grain of salt then I think you are very much mistaken. Why should a woman who for whatever reason has made the difficult decision to abort have to be looking at the foetus? What is the reasoning behind it? What purpose does it serve if she can only make the decision to abort anyway?
Neither of you have said why a person might feel guilty about seeking an abortion after having seen such images.
It has been mentioned in this thread that this is an attempt to put a guilt trip on women.
Why might they feel guilty?
In the shadow of the light from a black sun
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
Neither of you have said why a person might feel guilty about seeking an abortion after having seen such images.
It has been mentioned in this thread that this is an attempt to put a guilt trip on women.
Why might they feel guilty?
Because they are choosing to terminate what may develop in to a possible viable person. I think it should be a choice. It is possibly one of the hardest decision's a woman must make and she should not be judged by others, because no one has to walk in that person's shoes. There are plenty of unfit, selfish, neglectful and abusive parents out there who chose to carry that cell to a viable person. Breaks my heart how many of those situations are out there where these innocent children are having unspeakable things occur.
With that said, I think abortions should not be taken lightly and not be used as birth control. It is a choice that one must live with and reconcile within themselves. It is a great reason that sexually active folks who do not want to become pregnant should take precautions.
***spelling edit, of course and additional ***
"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes" ~ M Kuhn
Comments
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
i dont think any of those indicate a matriarchal society. abortion support is, far as i know, pretty evenly spread amongst men and women. single mothers are by far the absolute poorest people in america. women lose their jobs for getting pregnant. they make less than men for the same work. and notions of sex roles have easily survived notions of racial roles. longer life spans have nothing to do with patriarchy vs. matriarchy.... women have lived longer for as long as we can trace it. the only point you make that has any relevance is the child custody thing, but that has far more to do with the persistence of sex stereotypes i mentioned (women raise kids, men work) than any sort of female power play. i know you've got a chip on your shoulder becos of your custody battles, but just cos you got the short end of the gender stick doesn't mean women are engaged in some insidious plot to hold men down.
that said, it's not exactly patriarchal anymore, or if so it's only becos the holdovers havent really died off yet or such notions persist in the majority religious views (christianity). but women are far from dominating society and still are at a disadvantage in many ways. part of the problem is, as women are wont to do, they cant even figure out amongst themselves what the hell they want
funny you should say that conor. we actually had a state election here yesterday. alas my party did not have a woman representing them in my electorate.
anyhoo, you surely know that our elected officials are never beyond the vested interests and influence of others. so it wouldn't matter who 'my sisters' voted for. the state needs capital to run. and where does that capital come from?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
as i saw through your words which minimize a human life into a "woman's health issue".
tit. tat.
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
i'd vote for ya jeanie.
but just to make sure we're on the same page, can i ask what your stance is on the foreign private ownership of what i feel should essentially be state run infrastucture.
yeah you're born for something alright. just trying work out what that something is.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
that's cos you're going at it backwards... with my innate genius the options are virtually unlimited. it'd be much easier to try and figure out what it isnt
Lot of assuming going on. Good luck with that. I see you didn't bother to do any research. As I suspected. So seeing as we are speaking off the cuff, I reckon your summation of the current situation in Canada and the US is wrong. There ya go. I said it. I think you're wrong.
My eyes are wide open to the realities of the 21st Century. Clearly we just don't agree about what we are seeing.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
WOW!!! I am agreeing with you twice in one day???????
Thanks ss, you know I reckon I pretty much agree with EVERYTHING you just said. Even the last bit to a degree!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I think far too much of our infrastructure is currently in private foreign hands and I don't think we can really afford to continue allowing the sell off.
We are practically renting here these days!! Big business owns far too much.
I would love to see a return to more state run infrastructure. I would love to see more of Australia being owned by Australians. But I suspect that current trends to globalization has made this the case the world over. It's not about owning and running services from the country of origin anymore. It's all about the corporation owning all our asses. Most of them offshore corporations.
And interestingly, tying back to the subject of the thread, I couldn't help but wonder when I first read this what percentage of owners of and providers of ultrasounds are actually backing this law change? Lobbying for it even? Possibly even under the guises of religion? I wonder how many of them are part of the push? Because lets face it it's a finanacial boom for them. Is this whole thing just a clever rousse by corporations yet again?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
well i can see it isn't modesty conor, so i can strike that from my list.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
seems we are on the same page. despite my abhorrance of the capitalist system i don't particular care about the foreign ownership of PRIVATE companies. but when it comes to the infrastructure of a country, i believe that this is a government responsibility.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Citing the low wages of single mothers is one sided as single fathers earn less than married men. It's not the sex that drives the lower wage but the person's role in life (single parent). I make less than I could because I have to (and willingly) place my son first.
As for abortion, it's not the support that abortion has between sexes but that the whole reproductive rights issue is completely one-sided favoring women. Abortion is just one part of reproductive rights.
Canadian and American societies are no longer patriachial societies. There are too many inequities on both sides of the equation. In Canada and the US it is all about the role you take on in life for how fairly society is going to treat you, and how much you respect yourself and demand society to treat you. Just like George Bush doesn't hate you because you're black, but rather because you are poor.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
yes, but if single parent women make less than single parent men, that is a pretty tough thing to ignore. it's evening up, without a doubt, but there is no way this society is matriarchal. it might not be the iron clad patriarchy it used to be, but it hasnt really swung the other direction. women still have some ground to make up, but the gap is closing. reproductive rights aren't solely owned by women however. case in point: roe v. wade, decided by an all male supreme court. south carolina's ultrasound law voted in by an overwhelmingly male legislature. perhaps some of the people arguing reproductive rights use that as a justification, but that doesn't mean it has any basis in reality.
i think you'd agree with me far more than you'd expect. im by and large a pretty reasonable guy. i just like to be provocative at times and play with stereotypes. i get a kick out of it. others get offended by it.
Agreed!
And my only issue with foreign ownership of PRIVATE companies is if there is too much foreign ownership of PRIVATE companies in a country. I'd prefer that things were more evenly balanced between locally owned and run private companies and foreign owned private companies.
BUT most definitely government should own and run a country's infrastructure. Well in this country and other evenly (???) governed societies at any rate.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Are you saying that women's bodies are private companies and that the government should control that?
I think the failure is yours. It seems you are incapable of addressing my points.
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
and it seems you are incapable of letting things go. this is an issue where nobody has real "points," only beliefs. many have adequtely responded to your points. just becos you disagree with them doesn't mean their rebuttal is not reasonable or valid.
Yes, I have noticed this ss.
So it's all good.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I think you are making a moral mistake by considering all of those viewpoints to be valid. How can it even be argued that a human is not a human from the moment it is conceived?
Who has the right to make such arbitrary declarations about when a human becomes a human?
But that's arbitrary. I could just as well decide that a human is not really a human until he or she has control of over its own behavior.
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
Isn't that funny!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Whatever you say there, chief. I have asked questions in this thread that none have yet answered.
And by the way, responding to responses is sort of what happens in threads like this. If you don't like it, maybe you oughtn't post in them in the first place.
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
Have you read the whole thread austin?
Seems you have read this post of mine out of context.
It was response to a completely different issue than that of the thread.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
point out your questions trau and i'll answer them for you.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
i think it's more about feeling manipulated than feeling guilty. if i were asked to view an ultrasound during an abortion counselling session, i would have to wonder at the motivation behind it. knowing me as i do, i don't need to be shown the development of my embryo/foetus in order to make what is essentially the most importance and difficult decision of my life. i am aware of the stages. and besides, viewing an ultrasound would not change my mind on that decision.
next.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Most people that are objecting to the ultrasounds are objecting to them being mandated by the government. If a woman wants to have an ultrasound whether she keeps the baby or not then it should be her choice.
If you think that women take the issue of abortion with a grain of salt then I think you are very much mistaken. Why should a woman who for whatever reason has made the difficult decision to abort have to be looking at the foetus? What is the reasoning behind it? What purpose does it serve if she can only make the decision to abort anyway?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
It has been mentioned in this thread that this is an attempt to put a guilt trip on women.
Why might they feel guilty?
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
Because they are choosing to terminate what may develop in to a possible viable person. I think it should be a choice. It is possibly one of the hardest decision's a woman must make and she should not be judged by others, because no one has to walk in that person's shoes. There are plenty of unfit, selfish, neglectful and abusive parents out there who chose to carry that cell to a viable person. Breaks my heart how many of those situations are out there where these innocent children are having unspeakable things occur.
With that said, I think abortions should not be taken lightly and not be used as birth control. It is a choice that one must live with and reconcile within themselves. It is a great reason that sexually active folks who do not want to become pregnant should take precautions.
***spelling edit, of course and additional ***