Judging from the above post, Trau I'm assuming you're a virgin? Don't have sex to avoid pregnancy. That's a very basic solution to a very complex issue. I bet if you tell your kids that (oh wait, you're a virgin) they'll definitely take that on board and abstain.
What does my sexual experience have to do with anything?
In the shadow of the light from a black sun
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
Women's health really has nothing to do with you, so for you to bring in "morally reprehensible, "jail", "prisons", "courtrooms", "executions" and then conclude with "i'd take the prisons"...tells me much about your view on women, and their health.
See, here's the thing. Women's health has much to do with me if I were forced to pay for abortions, which was the whole impetus behind my statement.
Personally, I don't think women's health has anything to do with me, as a man. Which is why momen should be subsidizing their abortions, just like I should be subsidizing my vasectomies. Understand?
Women's health really has nothing to do with you, so for you to bring in "morally reprehensible, "jail", "prisons", "courtrooms", "executions" and then conclude with "i'd take the prisons"...tells me much about your view on women, and their health.
ffg has much respect for women, I think he was simply using analogies to express his point of view. He has stated that, although he is morally opposed to abortion, he respects a woman's right to choose.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
FFG: What is the basis for your moral objection to abortion? What about it do you find immoral?
In the shadow of the light from a black sun
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
FFG: What is the basis for your moral objection to abortion? What about it do you find immoral?
My moral objection lies in my own personal belief that a fetus is a living human being, created by the willful action of two adults. I think abortion is typically a cop-out, a choice of convenience. For all the talk here about "welfare" and "rape" and "incest", we're looking at the exceptions, not the rule.
However, I respect the person who doesn't hold that belief, the person who believes a fetus is simply a growing extension of a woman's body. It is a defensible position both philosophically and practically. Furthermore, the philosophical position stating that a fetus is a woman's property is arguably more philosophically sound than the one stating that a fetus is a living absolute, owned by nothing.
ffg has much respect for women, I think he was simply using analogies to express his point of view. He has stated that, although he is morally opposed to abortion, he respects a woman's right to choose.
I think he knows how to be polite. As for the rest of it, I'm guessing, but he sure sounds jaded about it all, to me.
I do know how to be polite. Politeness, however, has little to do with my statements here.
As for the rest of it, I'm guessing, but he sure sounds jaded about it all, to me.
Jaded about abortion? I am. I think many performed abortions are disgusting choices made by foolish women and foolish men. I'm jaded about abortions in the same way I'm jaded about the repeated idiocies I see in a lot of aspects of human existence.
My moral objection lies in my own personal belief that a fetus is a living human being, created by the willful action of two adults. I think abortion is typically a cop-out, a choice of convenience. For all the talk here about "welfare" and "rape" and "incest", we're looking at the exceptions, not the rule.
However, I respect the person who doesn't hold that belief, the person who believes a fetus is simply a growing extension of a woman's body. It is a defensible position both philosophically and practically. Furthermore, the philosophical position stating that a fetus is a woman's property is arguably more philosophically sound than the one stating that a fetus is a living absolute, owned by nothing.
I can understand your moral leaning if it were you that were the male in this scenario.
The rest of this shit you're saying to make your case, though, to me, smells awfully misogynic.
I think he knows how to be polite. As for the rest of it, I'm guessing, but he sure sounds jaded about it all, to me.
Abortion is a difficult issue. I can see all perspectives, but I do not know what the right answer is. Honestly, ffg and others here, on both sides of the issue, seem to be more clear about their stance than I ever could be. That's why I tend to stay out of abortion arguments. And to be polite in an abortion thread is quite an accomplishment, imo.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Abortion is a difficult issue. I can see all perspectives, but I do not know what the right answer is. Honestly, ffg and others here, on both sides of the issue, seem to be more clear about their stance than I ever could be. That's why I tend to stay out of abortion arguments. And to be polite in an abortion thread is quite an accomplishment, imo.
I didn't say he was being polite in this thread. Quite the contrary.
I can understand your moral leaning if it were you that were the male in this scenario.
The rest of this shit you're saying to make your case, though, to me, smells awfully misogynic.
I don't think his view is misogynistic. I think a lot of women hold the same view. At least he is not looking to legislate his point of view. He has stated that he is not looking to make abortion illegal. I'm not saying I agree with his viewpoint, again, I'm not sure where I fall in this debate. I just don't find his stance misogynistic.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
My moral objection lies in my own personal belief that a fetus is a living human being, created by the willful action of two adults. I think abortion is typically a cop-out, a choice of convenience. For all the talk here about "welfare" and "rape" and "incest", we're looking at the exceptions, not the rule.
However, I respect the person who doesn't hold that belief, the person who believes a fetus is simply a growing extension of a woman's body. It is a defensible position both philosophically and practically. Furthermore, the philosophical position stating that a fetus is a woman's property is arguably more philosophically sound than the one stating that a fetus is a living absolute, owned by nothing.
How is it defensible?
In the shadow of the light from a black sun
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
I don't think his view is misogynistic. I think a lot of women hold the same view. At least he is not looking to legislate his point of view. He has stated that he is not looking to make abortion illegal. I'm not saying I agree with his viewpoint, again, I'm not sure where I fall in this debate. I just don't find his stance misogynistic.
"A lot of women" and their viewpoints does not negate misogyny. Again, I want to drop this althother, but, when you bring your words to the table in this abortion debate, you'd be wise to choose them carefully.
Easily. One need only ask the question: what does it mean to be human?
There are a number of valid answers to the question, and one's moral position on abortion will extend from that answer.
If you believe that to be human is to simply be a living combination of a sperm and an egg, then it's likely you'll believe abortion is unacceptable.
If you believe that to be human is to simply be a conceived human being, detached from its mother, then it's likely you'll believe abortion is acceptable.
If you believe that to be human is to simply be a creation of God bearing the name "man", then it's likely you'll believe abortion is unacceptable.
If you believe that to be human is to have a will of your own and to be a living and thinking absolute, an agent whose survival and happiness belong only to yourself, then you'll have a bit more nuanced position wherein you hold the mother's will and happiness as primary and the fetus's potential will and happiness as exactly that -- a potentiality belonging soley to a mother's discretion.
This is the most cowardly statement I've ever seen on this board. What exactly did you "see through"?
I saw through your words how you minimized health, and how you minimized the woman's role in her own health: Taxes aside. You've got to remember, the topic is not only about abortion, but about a law passed that subjects the choice of a woman and her health to moralistic degradating legislation.
I saw through your words how you minimized health, and how you minimized the woman's role in her own health: Taxes aside. You've got to remember, the topic is not only about abortion, but about a law passed that subjects the choice of a woman and her health to moralistic degradatating legislation.
Huh? I've already stated that I think this law is both wrong and disgusting. Furthermore, I'm not "minimizing" a women's health or her role. I'm suggesting she be allowed and expected to own both her own health and her role in it to the utmost.
Huh? I've already stated that I think this law is both wrong and disgusting. Furthermore, I'm not "minimizing" a women's health or her role. I'm suggesting she be allowed and expected to own both her own health and her role in it to the utmost.
Hehe...they're not even my taxes. If you'd simply take the time to read back, I was discussing Canada, a nation wherein everyone pays for the abortions of their neighbors.
Dude, what "nags" me is the pro-choice mindset that often wants to state:
Hehe...they're not even my taxes. If you'd simply take the time to read back, I was discussing Canada, a nation wherein everyone pays for the abortions of their neighbors.
Dude, what "nags" me is the pro-choice mindset that often wants to state:
My body
My choice
Everyone's responsibility.
It's both contradictory and dangerous.
Do you not see the hypocrisy from the other side as well?
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
When it comes right down to it, though...what are taxes?
I have the number of a particular special agent from the US treasury department. I'm sure he would be able to answer that question. Just don't ask him any questions!!!!
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I have the number of a particular special agent from the US treasury department. I'm sure he would be able to answer that question. Just don't ask him any questions!!!!
"treasury agent" doesn't sound very reassuring. i asked the question, knowing the answer that ffg does not.
Comments
What does my sexual experience have to do with anything?
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
I'll take your word for it.
See, here's the thing. Women's health has much to do with me if I were forced to pay for abortions, which was the whole impetus behind my statement.
Personally, I don't think women's health has anything to do with me, as a man. Which is why momen should be subsidizing their abortions, just like I should be subsidizing my vasectomies. Understand?
ffg has much respect for women, I think he was simply using analogies to express his point of view. He has stated that, although he is morally opposed to abortion, he respects a woman's right to choose.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
My moral objection lies in my own personal belief that a fetus is a living human being, created by the willful action of two adults. I think abortion is typically a cop-out, a choice of convenience. For all the talk here about "welfare" and "rape" and "incest", we're looking at the exceptions, not the rule.
However, I respect the person who doesn't hold that belief, the person who believes a fetus is simply a growing extension of a woman's body. It is a defensible position both philosophically and practically. Furthermore, the philosophical position stating that a fetus is a woman's property is arguably more philosophically sound than the one stating that a fetus is a living absolute, owned by nothing.
I think he knows how to be polite. As for the rest of it, I'm guessing, but he sure sounds jaded about it all, to me.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I do know how to be polite. Politeness, however, has little to do with my statements here.
Jaded about abortion? I am. I think many performed abortions are disgusting choices made by foolish women and foolish men. I'm jaded about abortions in the same way I'm jaded about the repeated idiocies I see in a lot of aspects of human existence.
I can understand your moral leaning if it were you that were the male in this scenario.
The rest of this shit you're saying to make your case, though, to me, smells awfully misogynic.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
What "scenario"? There was no scenario in my post.
If you want to make points, make them. If you want to hide behind insults, you don't need me for that.
How is what I said "misogynic"?
Abortion is a difficult issue. I can see all perspectives, but I do not know what the right answer is. Honestly, ffg and others here, on both sides of the issue, seem to be more clear about their stance than I ever could be. That's why I tend to stay out of abortion arguments. And to be polite in an abortion thread is quite an accomplishment, imo.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I didn't say he was being polite in this thread. Quite the contrary.
Anyhoo, I've let go of his balls.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Let it go. I see your point, but I'm glad I let you know that I saw through some of what you're trying to say.
If anything, to be diplomatic, these abortion threads all tend to be a bit of overkill.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I don't think his view is misogynistic. I think a lot of women hold the same view. At least he is not looking to legislate his point of view. He has stated that he is not looking to make abortion illegal. I'm not saying I agree with his viewpoint, again, I'm not sure where I fall in this debate. I just don't find his stance misogynistic.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
This is the most cowardly statement I've ever seen on this board. What exactly did you "see through"?
No pun intended, I hope.
How is it defensible?
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
"A lot of women" and their viewpoints does not negate misogyny. Again, I want to drop this althother, but, when you bring your words to the table in this abortion debate, you'd be wise to choose them carefully.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Easily. One need only ask the question: what does it mean to be human?
There are a number of valid answers to the question, and one's moral position on abortion will extend from that answer.
If you believe that to be human is to simply be a living combination of a sperm and an egg, then it's likely you'll believe abortion is unacceptable.
If you believe that to be human is to simply be a conceived human being, detached from its mother, then it's likely you'll believe abortion is acceptable.
If you believe that to be human is to simply be a creation of God bearing the name "man", then it's likely you'll believe abortion is unacceptable.
If you believe that to be human is to have a will of your own and to be a living and thinking absolute, an agent whose survival and happiness belong only to yourself, then you'll have a bit more nuanced position wherein you hold the mother's will and happiness as primary and the fetus's potential will and happiness as exactly that -- a potentiality belonging soley to a mother's discretion.
Pun intended.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Huh? I've already stated that I think this law is both wrong and disgusting. Furthermore, I'm not "minimizing" a women's health or her role. I'm suggesting she be allowed and expected to own both her own health and her role in it to the utmost.
Those taxes really nag you then.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Hey gue....I think you have a crush on ffg
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
He bitches about taxes more than I do. I find that endearing.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Hehe...they're not even my taxes. If you'd simply take the time to read back, I was discussing Canada, a nation wherein everyone pays for the abortions of their neighbors.
Dude, what "nags" me is the pro-choice mindset that often wants to state:
My body
My choice
Everyone's responsibility.
It's both contradictory and dangerous.
Do you not see the hypocrisy from the other side as well?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I can tell, you mentioning fondling a particular body part of his and all.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Of course!
ha ha, I should have known the answer to that! What a silly question to ask.........
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
When it comes right down to it, though...what are taxes?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I have the number of a particular special agent from the US treasury department. I'm sure he would be able to answer that question. Just don't ask him any questions!!!!
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
"treasury agent" doesn't sound very reassuring. i asked the question, knowing the answer that ffg does not.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.