Agree. Of even more uncertainty is the magnitude role that the greenhouse effect has on climate change. Bringing this fact up seems to bother some environmentalists though.
what is bothersome is that there is no uncertainty in the consensus that humans are causing this change in climate ... so, what you say is indeed not a Fact ...
what is bothersome is that there is no uncertainty in the consensus that humans are causing this change in climate ... so, what you say is indeed not a Fact ...
But humans could be behind 10% of the change or they could be behind .5% of the change. That is what's not known and can't be determined.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
what is bothersome is that there is no uncertainty in the consensus that humans are causing this change in climate ... so, what you say is indeed not a Fact ...
So you are saying that 100% of current climate change is being caused by humans. Am I supposed to take this seriously. Are you adding this post to your portfolio you're gona show Michael Moore when trying to get a job as a fact checker on his next movie. You've just stated that for the first time in the history of the world that nature does not have the climate in flux, that all climate change is now from humans. Brilliant.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I've seen doomsday predictions as small as 10 years before irreversability. Given the consequences of irreversable climate change I suggest we do more about it, but it would also help if the rhetoric from some in the environmental field stopped.
I could go with 10 years or 200 years and still be on par with science.
Exactly, but whether it's 10 or 200 shouldn't matter. It's something that needs to be addressed. My opinion is that it's probably 50-100 like the recent studies have concluded....and maybe the ones saying 10 years just know that a lot of people are going to be resistant so if we start our panic mode right now then maybe we'll be able to pull our heads out of our collective ass before it's too late.
...and maybe the ones saying 10 years just know that a lot of people are going to be resistant so if we start our panic mode right now then maybe we'll be able to pull our heads out of our collective ass before it's too late.
But that would be politicizing science. Doesn't it stop being science when you deliberately distort facts? I've ben told be some on this board that the climate change debate has not been politicized in any way, that science is pure.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
So you are saying that 100% of current climate change is being caused by humans. Am I supposed to take this seriously. Are you adding this post to your portfolio you're gona show Michael Moore when trying to get a job as a fact checker on his next movie. You've just stated that for the first time in the history of the world that nature does not have the climate in flux, that all climate change is now from humans. Brilliant.
Surferdude, that's such an extreme statement. Humans are to blame for recent climate change. It's non-disputed by experts. Sure climate has changed over time but the recent changes have been proven to be humam related and spiraling out of what soon will be anyone's control.
Surferdude, that's such an extreme statement. Humans are to blame for recent climate change.
I'm not the one that made the assertation. And I would hope you mean "Humans are to blame for a portion of recent climate change. The portion of climate change that is caused by humans is under serious debate and there is no answer at this time. But owing to the magnitude of the problems posed by climate change we should be doing all we can to lessen our impact on the environment, especially as to how it relates to the greenhouse effect".
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
But that would be politicizing science. Doesn't it stop being science when you deliberately distort facts? I've ben told be some on this board that the climate change debate has not been politicized in any way, that science is pure.
Well, there are obviously some that are politicizing it. It's naive to believe anything else. But that's the minority....just like I said. I would refer to the ones claiming, "2010 watch it go to fire" as politicizing it, while the grand majority are giving us 50-100 years to turn it around.
I'm not the one that made the assertation. And I would hope you mean "Humans are to blame for a portion of recent climate change. The portion of climate change that is caused by humans is under serious debate and there is no answer at this time. But owing to the magnitude of the problems posed by climate change we should be doing all we can to lessen our impact on the environment, especially as to how it relates to the greenhouse effect".
co2 is directly related to climate change. co2 has been out of control lately and so has the Earth's temperature. Can you dispute that humans are 100% responsible for the skyrocketing co2 emmissions? My opinion is that humans are 100% responsible for the abnormal climate changes we're now experiencing and are about to experience. Obviously there are the normal shifts here and there but recent changes in climate are 100% human related, IMO.
So you are saying that 100% of current climate change is being caused by humans. Am I supposed to take this seriously. Are you adding this post to your portfolio you're gona show Michael Moore when trying to get a job as a fact checker on his next movie. You've just stated that for the first time in the history of the world that nature does not have the climate in flux, that all climate change is now from humans. Brilliant.
what is brilliant is that you still refuse to answer questions that contradict your dismissal ... let me know when you will accept that toxic waste ...
either way - if you study the science which after all these conversations is clear you have not ... you will see that any major changes in climate in the past have been accounted for - yes, there are natural variabilities in climate - no one disputes that but this variability we are experiencing is most definitely man made ... the rest of the world has figured it out ...
whether or not 100% is man-made is secondary to the fact that the majority of the cause is definitely related to human activities ...
whether or not 100% is man-made is secondary to the fact that the majority of the cause is definitely related to human activities ...
Exactly. The horrifying negative effects are attributed to humans and rightly so. Not by me, not by polaris, but by the entire scientific community, save a few who are undoubtedly sitting on George's bush.
again - would you offer your home for dumping of toxic waste? ... if no one can accurately predict what the consequences are it must be ok?
No I wouldn't offer my home for dumping of toxic waste. But I wouldn't tell people that 100% of people getting cancer who love near toxic waste is due to toxic waste. I will not lie to make a point.
Not doing anything about greenhouse gas emissions is stupid. Allowing your house to be used as a toxic dump site is stupid. Lieing about climate change is stupid. Being fat and out of shape is stupid.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
No I wouldn't offer my home for dumping of toxic waste. But I wouldn't tell people that 100% of people getting cancer who love near toxic waste is due to toxic waste. I will not lie to make a point.
Not doing anything about greenhouse gas emissions is stupid. Allowing your house to be used as a toxic dump site is stupid. Lieing about climate change is stupid. Being fat and out of shape is stupid.
but your dismissal of climate change is that there are not 100% accurate models - how is this any different? ... who is lying about climate change? ... you go from dismissing it because there are not accurate models to now people are lying about it?
Exactly. The horrifying negative effects are attributed to humans and rightly so. Not by me, not by polaris, but by the entire scientific community, save a few who are undoubtedly sitting on George's bush.
Just when you are doing better you slip into that politicized mode again with "horrifying negative effects". On the one hand you tell me we have between 50 and 100 years to reverse our impact on climate chaneg we make via the greenhouse effect, then you use "horrifying negative effect". Please make up your mind. How is climate chaneg that is reversable horrifying?
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
but your dismissal of climate change is that there are not 100% accurate models - how is this any different? ... who is lying about climate change? ... you go from dismissing it because there are not accurate models to now people are lying about it?
Show me once where I've dismissed it. I've stated over and over that we should do something about our impact on both the environment and greenhouse gas emissions. I'm just tired of the lies coming from the environmental community, it's disheartening. At least I can dismiss those that doubt the greenhouse effect as uneducated. How do you deal with those who out right lie to make their points? How do you deal with the scientists who don't say anything about the lies being told? Or is it a case of the lies are all being told to back science so it's okay?
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Just when you are doing better you slip into that politicized mode again with "horrifying negative effects". On the one hand you tell me we have between 50 and 100 years to reverse our impact on climate chaneg we make via the greenhouse effect, then you use "horrifying negative effect". Please make up your mind. How is climate chaneg that is reversable horrifying?
Having only 50 years to prevent mass destruction of humanity is not horrifying to you?
Having only 50 years to prevent mass destruction of humanity is not horrifying to you?
Not even to mention the spread of west nile and other viruses that are growing because our winters are not killing insects like they need to be. What about the polar bear population being depleted quite rapidly. What about 20 of the 21 hottest years on record having occurred within the last 25 years? None of this horrifies you? Just because it may be reversable doesn't mean it will be. People tend to spend more time arguing against it than doing anything about it. That, to me, is horrifying.
Having only 50 years to prevent mass destruction of humanity is not horrifying to you?
So you think humans would not find a way to adapt to changes in climate. I'd say it is safe to say that humans would find a way to adapt, it's in out nature to adapt. We've lived in all sorts of climates, from the Australian outback, Sahara Deserts, the Artic Circle to Trpoical Rainforests. I wonder what you've seen in human history to make you think we couldn't and wouldn't adapt.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
So you think humans would not find a way to adapt to changes in climate. I'd say it is safe to say that humans would find a way to adapt, it's in out nature to adapt. We've lived in all sorts of climates, from the Australian outback, Sahara Deserts, the Artic Circle to Trpoical Rainforests. I wonder what you've seen in human history to make you think we couldn't and wouldn't adapt.
Some may adapt, sure. But destruction awaits the masses if we wait much longer. It's not doomsday bullshit, it's science and it's fact. Even the supposed smartest man alive, Stephen Hawking, agrees. He recommended a month or so ago that we put much more time, money, and energy into space travel because this planet will soon be uninhabitable. I'm deeply concerned for my daughter and the world she may be living (or dying) in if we don't work together to keep this planet inhabitable.
Some may adapt, sure. But destruction awaits the masses if we wait much longer. It's not doomsday bullshit, it's science and it's fact. Even the supposed smartest man alive, Stephen Hawking, agrees. He recommended a month or so ago that we put much more time, money, and energy into space travel because this planet will soon be uninhabitable. I'm deeply concerned for my daughter and the world she may be living (or dying) in if we don't work together to keep this planet inhabitable.
"Some may adapt" You are aware that humans have never had a smaller percentage of people living without enough food.
"smartest man alive, Stephen Hawking", please he's been wrong about more things than he's been right about. Tell me does he belive in quantum physics or string theory. Because from what I've read the two cannot co-exist. And the scientific community is pretty split on the issue. So if he is so smart why doesn't the scientific community listen to him.
I could only imagine the howl coming from the science and environmental communities if space exploration budgets were significantly increased inthe name of saving humans.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
"Some may adapt" You are aware that humans have never had a smaller percentage of people living without enough food.
"smartest man alive, Stephen Hawking", please he's been wrong about more things than he's been right about. Tell me does he belive in quantum physics or string theory. Because from what I've read the two cannot co-exist. And the scientific community is pretty split on the issue. So if he is so smart why doesn't the scientific community listen to him.
I could only imagine the howl coming from the science and environmental communities if space exploration budgets were significantly increased inthe name of saving humans.
I'm not at all for space exploration. I think there are fewer things that are bigger wastes of time and money. And I did use the word "supposed" when referring to him as the smartest man alive (which you so conveniently left out of your quote). Either way, my point was that he recognizes the same crisis that the rest of the scientific community recognizes.
surferdude, even if I were to accept your assertion that humans can adapt to a changing climate, what about the rest of the world? So what if this means that tens of thousands of species will be wiped out? Should we not care so long as humans are ok? Now what about the ecological roles that these extinct species play in order to maintain our planet? There are many unexpected and unpredicatable consequences.
I don't think anybody will deny that the earth does go through natural variation in climate, and perhaps some of this is natural, but I think it would be naive to say that we have little to do with it considering the fact we emit billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere per year given the fact that we know the role of CO2 in climate patterns.
Although there is debate over what exactly a world will look like 2, 5, 10 degrees warmer, there is virtually zero debate that it is getting warmer and CO2 levels are getting higher and is positively correlated to the amount of CO2 we're emitting.
surferdude, even if I were to accept your assertion that humans can adapt to a changing climate, what about the rest of the world? So what if this means that tens of thousands of species will be wiped out? Should we not care so long as humans are ok? Now what about the ecological roles that these extinct species play in order to maintain our planet? There are many unexpected and unpredicatable consequences.
I don't think anybody will deny that the earth does go through natural variation in climate, and perhaps some of this is natural, but I think it would be naive to say that we have little to do with it considering the fact we emit billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere per year given the fact that we know the role of CO2 in climate patterns.
Although there is debate over what exactly a world will look like 2, 5, 10 degrees warmer, there is virtually zero debate that it is getting warmer and CO2 levels are getting higher and is positively correlated to the amount of CO2 we're emitting.
Did the earth end when dinosaurs disappeared? Every step of the way I've said we need to take action and lessen our impact on the environment and decrease greenhouse gas emissions. I also have an issue with science when it lies. Because it's not science any more at that point. The bullshit being slung around regarding climate change is unbelievable, and the worst part is that 90% or so of the bullshit is coming from the science and environmental factions.
Some serious question for you. What is our role in nature? Are we here to protect the existance of other species? If so, that would make us unique amongst all life forms on earth, and is what you've hinted at. Are we currently acting in any way that is unnatural for us? Can humans act unnaturally?
From what I've seen in nature every species domiates to the extent it can without a care for consequences. This is the natural order of the world from what I have learned. Humans are the only species who try to act outside this model by caring about the short and long term consequences. Is this normal in nature?
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Man do you remember that episode of "Most Extreme Police Videos" where the Compaq Presario dove into that raging river to save a mother and child who fell in?
Check out a hospital sometime.
96 - Toledo
98 - East Troy (x2), East Lansing, Auburn Hills, Cleveland
00 - Noblesville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Auburn Hills, East Troy, Chicago
03 - Cleveland, Columbus, Clarkston (x2)
04 - Toledo, Grand Rapids
06 - Auburn Hills, Camden (x2), DC
08 - Camden (x2), MSG (x2), Ed in Newark
09 - Ed in Philly (x2), The Spectrum (x4)
10 - Cleveland
The world is going to end two days before the day after tomorrow.
We knew how to stop global warming, but we didn't listen......we didn't listen.
"So, you must really love Led Zeppelin. That’s the oldest shirt I’ve ever seen on someone who wasn’t a bum."
"Hey, if God didn’t want me to wear it so much, he wouldn’t have made them rock so hard."
Did the earth end when dinosaurs disappeared? Every step of the way I've said we need to take action and lessen our impact on the environment and decrease greenhouse gas emissions. I also have an issue with science when it lies. Because it's not science any more at that point. The bullshit being slung around regarding climate change is unbelievable, and the worst part is that 90% or so of the bullshit is coming from the science and environmental factions.
Some serious question for you. What is our role in nature? Are we here to protect the existance of other species? If so, that would make us unique amongst all life forms on earth, and is what you've hinted at. Are we currently acting in any way that is unnatural for us? Can humans act unnaturally?
From what I've seen in nature every species domiates to the extent it can without a care for consequences. This is the natural order of the world from what I have learned. Humans are the only species who try to act outside this model by caring about the short and long term consequences. Is this normal in nature?
We are the first mammals to wear pants...we're not like previous dominant species. We're totally fucked up.
96 - Toledo
98 - East Troy (x2), East Lansing, Auburn Hills, Cleveland
00 - Noblesville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Auburn Hills, East Troy, Chicago
03 - Cleveland, Columbus, Clarkston (x2)
04 - Toledo, Grand Rapids
06 - Auburn Hills, Camden (x2), DC
08 - Camden (x2), MSG (x2), Ed in Newark
09 - Ed in Philly (x2), The Spectrum (x4)
10 - Cleveland
Did the earth end when dinosaurs disappeared? Every step of the way I've said we need to take action and lessen our impact on the environment and decrease greenhouse gas emissions. I also have an issue with science when it lies. Because it's not science any more at that point. The bullshit being slung around regarding climate change is unbelievable, and the worst part is that 90% or so of the bullshit is coming from the science and environmental factions.
Some serious question for you. What is our role in nature? Are we here to protect the existance of other species? If so, that would make us unique amongst all life forms on earth, and is what you've hinted at. Are we currently acting in any way that is unnatural for us? Can humans act unnaturally?
From what I've seen in nature every species domiates to the extent it can without a care for consequences. This is the natural order of the world from what I have learned. Humans are the only species who try to act outside this model by caring about the short and long term consequences. Is this normal in nature?
Hey Surferdude, Okay, yes the world did not end when the dino's died, nor will it die when we are gone as well. However, I think it is preferable that when we do leave the earth we have kept some of the pieces in tact for it to rebuild itself. As far as our role in nature goes, you created a good thread in the forum and I responded there.
We are unique from other animals. We are the only species who are aware of ourselves and our environment and the consequences that our action produce. I'm unclear as what you mean by "unnatural". We are part of nature, but we do act in very different way than any other species. More importantly we have the capabilities to change the world in ways that other species can't. For example the beaver is given credit as the animal that can change the environment the most besides humans.
I consider myself an environmentalist, but I think I can also be one of the sharpest critics as well. There are many environmental movements/positions that I believe are misguided or outright naive. Climate change is not one of them.
Comments
what is bothersome is that there is no uncertainty in the consensus that humans are causing this change in climate ... so, what you say is indeed not a Fact ...
But humans could be behind 10% of the change or they could be behind .5% of the change. That is what's not known and can't be determined.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Exactly, but whether it's 10 or 200 shouldn't matter. It's something that needs to be addressed. My opinion is that it's probably 50-100 like the recent studies have concluded....and maybe the ones saying 10 years just know that a lot of people are going to be resistant so if we start our panic mode right now then maybe we'll be able to pull our heads out of our collective ass before it's too late.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Only 4 gears but I can push 113mph....
and it gets me 48mpg
what is brilliant is that you still refuse to answer questions that contradict your dismissal ... let me know when you will accept that toxic waste ...
either way - if you study the science which after all these conversations is clear you have not ... you will see that any major changes in climate in the past have been accounted for - yes, there are natural variabilities in climate - no one disputes that but this variability we are experiencing is most definitely man made ... the rest of the world has figured it out ...
whether or not 100% is man-made is secondary to the fact that the majority of the cause is definitely related to human activities ...
Not doing anything about greenhouse gas emissions is stupid. Allowing your house to be used as a toxic dump site is stupid. Lieing about climate change is stupid. Being fat and out of shape is stupid.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
get back to me when you answer the greenhouse effect question ...
but your dismissal of climate change is that there are not 100% accurate models - how is this any different? ... who is lying about climate change? ... you go from dismissing it because there are not accurate models to now people are lying about it?
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
"smartest man alive, Stephen Hawking", please he's been wrong about more things than he's been right about. Tell me does he belive in quantum physics or string theory. Because from what I've read the two cannot co-exist. And the scientific community is pretty split on the issue. So if he is so smart why doesn't the scientific community listen to him.
I could only imagine the howl coming from the science and environmental communities if space exploration budgets were significantly increased inthe name of saving humans.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I don't think anybody will deny that the earth does go through natural variation in climate, and perhaps some of this is natural, but I think it would be naive to say that we have little to do with it considering the fact we emit billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere per year given the fact that we know the role of CO2 in climate patterns.
Although there is debate over what exactly a world will look like 2, 5, 10 degrees warmer, there is virtually zero debate that it is getting warmer and CO2 levels are getting higher and is positively correlated to the amount of CO2 we're emitting.
so he thinks he's a dickhead himself? i remember seeing him drive one in 'jackass the movie' while steve-o was getting a tattoo in the back.
~Michael Bolton
Some serious question for you. What is our role in nature? Are we here to protect the existance of other species? If so, that would make us unique amongst all life forms on earth, and is what you've hinted at. Are we currently acting in any way that is unnatural for us? Can humans act unnaturally?
From what I've seen in nature every species domiates to the extent it can without a care for consequences. This is the natural order of the world from what I have learned. Humans are the only species who try to act outside this model by caring about the short and long term consequences. Is this normal in nature?
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Check out a hospital sometime.
98 - East Troy (x2), East Lansing, Auburn Hills, Cleveland
00 - Noblesville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Auburn Hills, East Troy, Chicago
03 - Cleveland, Columbus, Clarkston (x2)
04 - Toledo, Grand Rapids
06 - Auburn Hills, Camden (x2), DC
08 - Camden (x2), MSG (x2), Ed in Newark
09 - Ed in Philly (x2), The Spectrum (x4)
10 - Cleveland
We knew how to stop global warming, but we didn't listen......we didn't listen.
"Hey, if God didn’t want me to wear it so much, he wouldn’t have made them rock so hard."
We are the first mammals to wear pants...we're not like previous dominant species. We're totally fucked up.
98 - East Troy (x2), East Lansing, Auburn Hills, Cleveland
00 - Noblesville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Auburn Hills, East Troy, Chicago
03 - Cleveland, Columbus, Clarkston (x2)
04 - Toledo, Grand Rapids
06 - Auburn Hills, Camden (x2), DC
08 - Camden (x2), MSG (x2), Ed in Newark
09 - Ed in Philly (x2), The Spectrum (x4)
10 - Cleveland
Hey Surferdude, Okay, yes the world did not end when the dino's died, nor will it die when we are gone as well. However, I think it is preferable that when we do leave the earth we have kept some of the pieces in tact for it to rebuild itself. As far as our role in nature goes, you created a good thread in the forum and I responded there.
We are unique from other animals. We are the only species who are aware of ourselves and our environment and the consequences that our action produce. I'm unclear as what you mean by "unnatural". We are part of nature, but we do act in very different way than any other species. More importantly we have the capabilities to change the world in ways that other species can't. For example the beaver is given credit as the animal that can change the environment the most besides humans.
I consider myself an environmentalist, but I think I can also be one of the sharpest critics as well. There are many environmental movements/positions that I believe are misguided or outright naive. Climate change is not one of them.