so yesterday I pull up next to a hummer

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  • mpg82
    mpg82 Posts: 83
    JPinks wrote:
    Computers save lives and TV is an efficient way to communicate.

    Man do you remember that episode of "Most Extreme Police Videos" where the Compaq Presario dove into that raging river to save a mother and child who fell in?
    6/26/98, 6/27/98, 06/13/99, 10/08/00, 6/18/03, 6/21/03, 6/29/06, 6/30/06, 5/7/10
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    BackwardsBlues1 wrote:
    It's not about "hype." It's truth. First of global cooling and global warming are the same thing, just in different parts of the world. The better term is "climate change" and yes, some of it is natural climate fluctuations. However, there is a *direct* linkage between climate change and CO2 in the atmosphere, and if you look at graphs of both c02 concentration and temperature increase overtime from hundreds of years ago to present, the steepest slopes on both graphs start exactly at the industrial revolution and climb at increasing rates through 2006. I look at these graphs all day, it's my job. And I look at graphs of energy use as well...oil doesn't grow on trees...


    How were they measuring cO2 concentration "hundreds of years ago"?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    know1 wrote:
    How were they measuring cO2 concentration "hundreds of years ago"?

    ice cores
  • BackwardsBlues1
    BackwardsBlues1 Posts: 152
    know1 wrote:
    How were they measuring cO2 concentration "hundreds of years ago"?


    actually, they've got stuff like this from thousands of years ago, temp estimates too. I think they use core samples and stuff like that. I'm on the social science side so I just get the end result of the natural science side. I'm not exactly sure how they do it, but they've got it.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    polaris wrote:
    ice cores

    Is that how they also measure it today?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    binauralsounds wrote:
    If i remember my U.S. law, I THINK it is illegal to get heroin at a drugstore. I don't think it's illegal to own a hummer.

    OMG!! FUCKING PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! soulsing, ur fucking kilin me over here!

    but while we're on the topic of personal freedom, SHOULD heroin be illegal? if you support our government regulating american spending habits through measures like banning recreational drugs, what is so outlandish about some of us talking about regulating american spending habits by placing restrictions on recreational vehicles that are dangerous to the general public, not just the individual user?
  • BackwardsBlues1
    BackwardsBlues1 Posts: 152
    polaris wrote:
    ice cores

    yeah, bingo.
  • BackwardsBlues1
    BackwardsBlues1 Posts: 152
    know1 wrote:
    Is that how they also measure it today?

    I'm not sure if they *can* do it that way, but I don't think that's how it's done in practice.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    BackwardsBlues1 wrote:
    actually, they've got stuff like this from thousands of years ago, temp estimates too. I think they use core samples and stuff like that. I'm on the social science side so I just get the end result of the natural science side. I'm not exactly sure how they do it, but they've got it.

    You just can't go back, look at some stuff you think is related, compare it to today's data taken taken with today's technology and think it is a "apples to apples" comparison.

    I'm all for everyone doing what they can to help the environment because I love being outdoors. I actually pick up other people's trash and throw it away for them almost everytime I kayaking.

    It's just simply not credible to say that man has any real, scientifically and statistically relevant data about this stuff that goes back long enough to know man's impact.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • BackwardsBlues1
    BackwardsBlues1 Posts: 152
    know1 wrote:
    You just can't go back, look at some stuff you think is related, compare it to today's data taken taken with today's technology and think it is a "apples to apples" comparison.

    I'm all for everyone doing what they can to help the environment because I love being outdoors. I actually pick up other people's trash and throw it away for them almost everytime I kayaking.

    It's just simply not credible to say that man has any real, scientifically and statistically relevant data about this stuff that goes back long enough to know man's impact.

    It's comparable. These guys wouldn't be doing it if it weren't comparable data. science is rarely perfect, but even if you look at several different sources and estimates, the trends are there. Obviously it is always incredibly difficult to prove causation, but the CORRELATION is most certainly there.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    BackwardsBlues1 wrote:
    It's comparable. These guys wouldn't be doing it if it weren't comparable data. science is rarely perfect, but even if you look at several different sources and estimates, the trends are there. Obviously it is always incredibly difficult to prove causation, but the CORRELATION is most certainly there.

    So what does an ice core tell you about the impact of driving a Hummer?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • BackwardsBlues1
    BackwardsBlues1 Posts: 152
    know1 wrote:
    So what does an ice core tell you about the impact of driving a Hummer?

    One can easily calculate the emissions in pounds co2/mile for any type of vehicle. using these trend lines you get over time from the ice cores and whatnot, you can get the statistical correlation coefficient between a pound of c02 and change in temp (some of my coworkers are working on models to do this right now). Then you just multiply the two and by miles traveled and wa-la. it's not perfect, but it can be calculated to some reasonable estimate.

    p.s. they usually wouldn't calculate anything in terms of driving say *one* hummer, as the numbers would be minutely small, it's usually done in terms of fleets and tons. I read somewhere recently yhat a 25 mile commute in a mini cooper releases 15 pounds of c02, for a reference point.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    so ... as we see yet another heat wave to hit france (estimated deaths related around 21) we still have people who can't be bothered to figure this thing out instead of making ludicrous excuses ...
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    BackwardsBlues1 wrote:
    One can easily calculate the emissions in pounds co2/mile for any type of vehicle. using these trend lines you get over time from the ice cores and whatnot, you can get the statistical correlation coefficient between a pound of c02 and change in temp (some of my coworkers are working on models to do this right now). Then you just multiply the two and by miles traveled and wa-la. it's not perfect, but it can be calculated to some reasonable estimate.


    I'm sure it can be done under controlled conditions, but the earth and what it was like hundreds or years ago is NOT a controlled condition. Therefore, the emmissions do not always translate into an exact correlated change in temperature that is accurately represented in an ice core.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • binauralsounds
    binauralsounds Posts: 1,357
    polaris wrote:
    so ... as we see yet another heat wave to hit france (estimated deaths related around 21) we still have people who can't be bothered to figure this thing out instead of making ludicrous excuses ...

    huh?
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    polaris wrote:
    so ... as we see yet another heat wave to hit france (estimated deaths related around 21) we still have people who can't be bothered to figure this thing out instead of making ludicrous excuses ...

    And we still have people who take single events and use them as "proof" of some sort of trend......AND THEN also blame that trend on something that cannot and won't be proven or calculated (ie. the exact level of man's impact on the temperature or weather).
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • rightondude
    rightondude Posts: 745
    binauralsounds wrote:
    Whhoaaaaa! Slow down! H1's are fine? Says who? :)

    They are. How many H1's do you see on the street and in the city? http://www.hummer.lv/n_images/h1_face.jpg I could count on one hand. Most buy H2's, and for the bling. They were made for a specific niche buyer: Mr. Bobby bling bling. H1's aren't about bling. They're about utility. That's why they are ok. Lots of people drive off road in many parts of the world to get around daily.

    compared to a H2:
    http://www.goodtou.com/Hummer1.jpg
  • BackwardsBlues1
    BackwardsBlues1 Posts: 152
    know1 wrote:
    I'm sure it can be done under controlled conditions, but the earth and what it was like hundreds or years ago is NOT a controlled condition. Therefore, the emmissions do not always translate into an exact correlated change in temperature that is accurately represented in an ice core.

    it's not exact, it's a statistical estimation coupled with engineering facts in this case. statistic estimation is how everything is done.
  • Eliot Rosewater
    Eliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
    mwachsman wrote:
    I'm sure the dad told his son that he works hard for his money and he can do as he so choses with it. Why do I buy a car that gets low gas mileage? Becuase I can. Then he probably lectured his kid on how bad it is to be a hippie.
    He probably told his kid that global warming is some kind of myth and that it's even necessary for us to have high carbon emissions.
  • binauralsounds
    binauralsounds Posts: 1,357
    polaris wrote:
    so ... as we see yet another heat wave to hit france (estimated deaths related around 21) we still have people who can't be bothered to figure this thing out instead of making ludicrous excuses ...

    Are you tryin to relate this to the panic driven "global warming"?

    Haven't there been heat waves like this since temps were recorded??? There have been heatwaves all over the globe for since weather records started being recorded, but yet today, in modern time, once we see the word heat wave and HOT temps, we use selective memory.

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