why won't god heal amputees?

angelica

catefrances wrote:

you said, "it is us who create illness by our patterns; accidents; or healing for ourselves." so will is absent form our actions is that waht your saying?
you also bought up louise hay and intuitive healing. if being so aware and using that awareness is not using energy and therefore will, then what is it?

I believe most people are willing one thing, and unaware of the full ramifications of their actions, due to where we are in our evolution at this time.

So while willing one thing, one might create a much different scenario than expected.

For example, I might find a guy attractive, and start dating him. I do so because I find him attractive and I hope we'll be happy together. a year later, I might break up with him, having experienced months of physical abuse. People don't get into abusive situations because they will it. They do it because their awareness is on their "script" - ie: I'm not going to marry a bad man like my dad who abused my mom, I'm going to find my dream man, and make it work - and they overlook the ways they unwittingly co-create a relationship or situation that they must grow to overcome.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

Also, I don't understand what you mean re: Louise L Hay.

Being aware and using that awareness is using energy, imo. Being aware and choosing is using will in my opinion.

I also go much, much farther than conventional thought. I personally understand many levels of consciousness people generally don't. I see that our unconscious nature acts intelligently, with a different level of "consciousness" . The problem is, 98% of people are not aligned with their full selves and that level of consciousness, except maybe in dreams, etc. They are aligned with their sliver of awareness, and think the sliver is who they are. They think they are the drop of water and don't realize they are the ocean. this is widely accepted psychologically speaking.

Our "unconscious" acts with a different kind of intelligence that we deny. And I see that it acts in our best interests, in terms of our personal evolution, at all times, even when we ignore it, deny it, conflict with it, or try to will it to death.

Trying to separate from our full selves, as we do all the time, is like trying to hold a beach ball under water. Not only is it impossible, but we use up incredible energy in each day doing so that we deplete ourselves with futile action. Over and over, each day. Which keeps us stuck in our patterns.

We willfully choose to do so. We are focusing on what we are doing on one level, unaware of the consequence on another.

re:louise hay. does she not extol the virtues of positive thinking upon one's well being? that one can cure their illnesses through affirmations?

so... it looks like we agree in our definition of will. cool.


i am aligned with my whole self angelica. as ive said before i am fully aware of my actions and thoughts. i do not separate from my full self. so for me sub conscious or even the unconscious does not exist. all i think, all i feel and all i do is me. all of me.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

you said, "it is us who create illness by our patterns; accidents; or healing for ourselves." so will is absent form our actions is that waht your saying?
you also bought up louise hay and intuitive healing. if being so aware and using that awareness is not using energy and therefore will, then what is it?

I want to state very clearly, that yes, our will can always direct us on the path of altering our patterns. But it takes work, and concrete actions ALWAYS.

It is not a matter of "wishing" or "hoping" we'll heal.

Many people give up bad patterns with willpower. ie: quitting smoking. This does not solve the underlying root cause of the problem. As long as people use the willpower method, they will adopt another imbalance to perpetuate the underlying root of imbalance in the system. Removing the symptom of the imbalance is very different than removing the imbalance. Unfortunately, currently our methods are about removing symptoms and shifting imbalance into other areas.

Actual healing is about resolving the underlying imbalances. That is FAR beyond using will, even though it stems from our choice and will.

In some cases of spontaneous healings, people can resolve their imbalances spontaneously. It is not an act of will, but an act of inner resolution.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

I want to state very clearly, that yes, our will can always direct us on the path of altering our patterns. But it takes work, and concrete actions ALWAYS.

It is not a matter of "wishing" or "hoping" we'll heal.

Many people give up bad patterns with willpower. ie: quitting smoking. This does not solve the underlying root cause of the problem. As long as people use the willpower method, they will adopt another imbalance to perpetuate the underlying root of imbalance in the system. Removing the symptom of the imbalance is very different than removing the imbalance. Unfortunately, currently our methods are about removing symptoms and shifting imbalance into other areas.

Actual healing is about resolving the underlying imbalances. That is FAR beyond using will, even though it stems from our choice and will.

In some cases of spontaneous healings, people can resolve their imbalances spontaneously. It is not an act of will, but an act of inner resolution.

i know will isnt about wishing and hoping, as those imply some amount of despair. despair allows room for failure.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

re:louise hay. does she not extol the virtues of positive thinking upon one's well being? that one can cure their illnesses through affirmations?

so... it looks like we agree in our definition of will. cool.


i am aligned with my whole self angelica. as ive said before i am fully aware of my actions and thoughts. i do not separate from my full self. so for me sub conscious or even the unconscious does not exist. all i think, all i feel and all i do is me. all of me.

now our posts are out of synch. Affirmations are a start. Louise L Hay is a law of attraction person. The affirmations are always coincided with actions. Louise healed her own cancer with affirmations AND dramatically altering her physical health in many ways, including using reflexology and eating very purified diet, etc.

The beginning of every healthy action is a healthy thought, which is why one leads with affirmations that can lead us towards the resolution.


The reason I brought up Louise L Hay in this context was because she did healing counselling for years. doing so, she began to notice patterns with people who came to her. She began to keep track of these patterns she observed...certain personalities people had that went with their physical illnesses. And she wrote a book, stating what the mental conflict was for many illnesses. It is based on these types of intuitions that since, various science studies have been carried out to empirically test such theories.

Also, Dr. Gabor Mate said that he, as a doctor, began to see correlations with various "scripts" people held to and the illnesses they developed. He said he's heard numerous doctors say the same thing - that certain profiles go with certain illnesses.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

i know will isnt about wishing and hoping, as those imply some amount of despair. despair allows room for failure.

Okay, that was my misunderstanding then.

I like your characterization of hope/despair and how that leads to perpetuation.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

i am aligned with my whole self angelica. as ive said before i am fully aware of my actions and thoughts. i do not separate from my full self. so for me sub conscious or even the unconscious does not exist. all i think, all i feel and all i do is me. all of me.

I think I know what you are saying here now, and from what I know of you, I would agree...in terms of you taking accountability for your actions.

angelica

The reason "God", "forgiveness" and other "religious" concepts enter into healing is because of this:

At the root, healing is about releasing the patterns we hold that keep us conflicted with life/the universe/ourselves, or what-have-you. Whether it takes us ten years or is spontaneous.

For people like myself, God symbolizes the unbroken wholeness of life. The ultimate whole-some-ness. God symbolizes All. To evoke what such a symbol represents, is to evoke the state one seeks to achieve. Wholeness.

Forgiveness is a method to return to that state of wholeness. Of Holy-ness. Forgiveness is, like healing, about releasing those distorted patterns that we hold.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

The reason "God", "forgiveness" and other "religious" concepts enter into healing is because of this:

At the root, healing is about releasing the patterns we hold that keep us conflicted with life/the universe/ourselves, or what-have-you. Whether it takes us ten years or is spontaneous.

For people like myself, God symbolizes the unbroken wholeness of life. The ultimate whole-some-ness. God symbolizes All. To evoke what such a symbol represents, is to evoke the state one seeks to achieve. Wholeness.

Forgiveness is a method to return to that state of wholeness. Of Holy-ness. Forgiveness is, like healing, about releasing those distorted patterns that we hold.

but one can be whole without calling upon God and without thinking it is necessary to do so.

brainofme

i haven't read the whole thread and i can't answer this in a religious sense....so this is just a thought:

if you have for example cancer and you get healed (maybe because you pray) you survived. your illness could have killed you but you're stilll alive. that's what you wanted.

if you have for example an accident and lose your leg, you still live after it. your leg has been amputated because otherwise you would have died. end result: you still live. that's what you wanted.

if somebody is born with no legs he/still lives...that's what seems to matter.

so my conclusion: maybe it's just about living or dying.


there are some more or less shitty things with which one has to live. i mean in the small form: why does one need glasses and the other one doesn't? i hate being short-sighted, but i have to live with it, and no one would ever really except me being really frustrated because of that. and i never prayed for having my full sight again. it's just a minor disability. losing a leg or being paralized is of course much more difficult to handle. but in the end: nobody's perfect and it's all about surviving or not.

i don't know if that makes any sense... ;-)

Collin

That video gives a very weak argument against god. It does, however, question the beliefs of the people who claim to be healed by god. You know, those people who had cancer and they prayed and god came down and with his divine hand took away their cancer.

I've read countless stories of people who claimed that god saved their lives, that god cured them. Yet that same god that goes around the world to cure people's cancers never ever, not once in recorded history, gave a person his leg or arm back.

So if god exists it seems more reasonable to suggest he doesn't answer prayers but just does whatever he wants, regardless of your prayers. And sometimes a person will be lucky that his prayer just happens to match with what god wants. That sounds a lot more logical than a god who sits and listens to the prayers and then goes and cures a few cancers but never helps his amputee children who pray just as hard and are equally devout christians.

But I don't believe in god.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Collin wrote:

That video gives a very weak argument against god. It does, however, question the beliefs of the people who claim to be healed by god. You know, those people who had cancer and they prayed and god came down and with his divine hand took away their cancer.

I've read countless stories of people who claimed that god saved their lives, that god cured them. Yet that same god that goes around the world to cure people's cancers never ever, not once in recorded history, gave a person his leg or arm back.

So if god exists it seems more reasonable to suggest he doesn't answer prayers but just does whatever he wants, regardless of your prayers. And sometimes a person will be lucky that his prayer just happens to match with what god wants. That sounds a lot more logical than a god who sits and listens to the prayers and then goes and cures a few cancers but never helps his amputee children who pray just as hard and are equally devout christians.

But I don't believe in god.

Yeah god is kinda fussy. I think you gotta pray right. How does one kneel properly with only one leg, or do this with only one arm?

God says......denied.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

but one can be whole without calling upon God and without thinking it is necessary to do so.

Absolutely!

If they align with the universe/life, and the natural laws that flow through them, etc. If they remain stuck in ego and their sense of isolation, aloneness and separateness from life, then no.

searchlightsoul

chopitdown wrote:

God always answers prayer. He just doesn't always answer them how we want them. And if you assume that God is all powerful and all knowing, He is answering it the best that it can be answered. The (reason for the) answer just escapes our limited minds.

This is always a convenient retort-'God works in mysterious ways'. Conveneint because it allows 'god' to be absolutely anything you want it to be and do anything you want it to do so that the burden of proof must always lie with the otherside to prove it wasn't god healing the sick. Very convenient.

So anyone who dares question the doctrine of god is told that there means of questioning is limiited like the above poster. Based on this logic, healing could also be ascribed to magic, and argued as effectively as anyone here advocating 'god'.

More logically you might suggest that recovery had something to do with the person's immune response or the drugs they awere taking at the time......