Is there some sort of quota God must meet between prayer requests and prayer fulfillment?
One would be nice...
Furthermore, what is a "truely answered prayer"? One answered exactly as the prayer stipulates? Such as "Dear Lord, I want Pearl Jam to do a central Kentucky mini tour, starting this weekend in Louisville, then to Lexington (the Dame, not Rupp Arena...), then ending in my backyard for a three night stay in which they play all of the songs I have yet to hear live, such as Oceans, Of the Girl, Black Red Yellow, and even Tremor Christ. Oh, and Lord, could you make my 10C number lower so I can have a better seat when they come to play at my house?" Now, would a truely answered prayer be one that fulfills all of my requests, even the gift of changing my kinda crappy 10c number? And in the case of the amputee, is a truely answered prayer one in which limbs grow back? Just trying to find my way through the ambiguity...
So if you go to McDonald's and ask for a cheesburger value meal and receive a new Craftsman 20oz ripclaw hammer instead you should consider your order fulfilled?
I'd still be hungry and wanting my f'ing cheeseburger!
Why should god get credit for curing diseases he created in the first place?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Why should god get credit for curing diseases he created in the first place?
I think God creates the potential for illness and the potential for healing. It is us who create illness by our patterns; accidents; or healing for ourselves. Some issues are irreversible.
*runs and hides while preparing for the onslaught and to have my posts mysteriously go missing*
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I think God creates the potential for illness and the potential for healing. It is us who create illness by our patterns; accidents; or healing for ourselves. Some issues are irreversible.
*runs and hides while preparing for the onslaught and to have my posts mysteriously go missing*
well god also provided for the potential for misinterpreting his entire existence
to such a point where millions of people deny he even exists.
but of course thats the fault of man for not understanding i suppose,
afterall how could we mere mortals possibly comprehend His majesty. :rolleyes:
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
well god also provided for the potential for misinterpreting his entire existence
to such a point where millions of people deny he even exists.
but of course thats the fault of man for not understanding i suppose,
afterall how could we mere mortals possibly comprehend His majesty. :rolleyes:
In my mind there is no discussion here, for both you and I to pay lip service to a characterization neither of us believes in.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
In my mind there is no discussion here, for both you and I to pay lip service to a characterization neither of us believes in.
oh you disappoint me angelica. you speak of God creating the potential for illness and the potential for healing and yet when i bring up another of his potentialities you baulk.
i was not paying lip service to a 'characterisation i dont believe in', i was showing how ridiculous i thought what you said was. you rabbit on about how its our patterns that create illness in us and i find that such a crock of shit. by your rationale a child afflicted with cancer brought it upon themselves by their patterns? i cant begin to articulate how unfathomable that is.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
oh you disppoint me angelica. yuo speak of God creating the potential for illness and the potential for healing and yet when i broing up another of his potentialities you baulk.
i was not paying lip service to a 'characterisation i dont believe in', i was showing how ridiculous i thought what you said was. you rabbit on about how its our patterns that create illness to us and i find that such a crock of shit. by your rationale a child afflicted with cancer brought it upon themselves. i cant begin to articulate how unfathomable that is.
Kindly restate your assertion as a statement so I can understand it, and I'll be glad to respond.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
catefrances: If a one year old toddles into a swimming pool and drowns, it doesn't "bring it upon themselves", it creates cause and effect. Plain and simple.
If you want to read in a moral judgment, that's fine. I am not doing so, however, so there is a big difference.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Kindly restate your assertion as a statement so I can understand it, and I'll be glad to respond.
whats to restate angelica? i said what i said plainly and clearly. do you not understand me?
you bring up illness and healing as potentialities of God's doing. when i bring up the potentiality of dismissing his existence you decide thats too much?
in my mind if God can create the potential for illness then surely he must create the potential for people to deny his very existence? where's the lip service?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
whats to restate angelica? i said what i said plainly and clearly. do you not understand me?
you bring up illness and healing as potentialities of God's doing. when i bring up the potentiality of dismissing his existence you decide thats too much?
in my mind if God can create the potential for illness then surely he must create the potential for people to deny his very existence? where's the lip service?
I didn't hear a question or even sensical assertion in that post. Period.
if this is your point...go to town! I am totally okay with your view! (and all views!)
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I think God creates the potential for illness and the potential for healing. It is us who create illness by our patterns; accidents; or healing for ourselves. Some issues are irreversible.
*runs and hides while preparing for the onslaught and to have my posts mysteriously go missing*
I look at kids with cancer and I often wonder.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
catefrances: If a one year old toddles into a swimming pool and drowns, it doesn't "bring it upon themselves", it creates cause and effect. Plain and simple.
If you want to read in a moral judgment, that's fine. I am not doing so, however, so there is a big difference.
but thats what you said angelica. and i quote:
I think God creates the potential for illness and the potential for healing. It is us who create illness by our patterns; accidents; or healing for ourselves. Some issues are irreversible.
i was speaking illness angelica, not a child wandering off and drowning because its parent wasnt paying attention to it. i see the cause and effect there. bringing illness on itself as a child... that i don't see. and that was my contention.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I've also read numerous books that point out scientific studies that connect emotional patterns with illness in our bodies...it is very easy for me to fathom what that energy can do to us, when unresolved, moving through us. Considering emotions are energy, and energy moves in our bodies...
Such theories are as valid as the "we know nothing" theories. And such theories, once understood, I see validated all around me. I study the Chakras, and illness in certain areas correlate to chakra patterns. I can see the emotional patterns people carry with them. As do other intuitive healers. Whether people are up in arms about it or not.
Give it 50 years... Louise L Hay started bringing this stuff to the mainstream probably 20 or 30 years ago. One book I read was by a doctor - a neuropsychiatrist, whom the medical profession failed when she was ill, so she turned to intuitive healing (from Louise L Hay's school of thought). It worked for her, and she was healed. So years later, as a respected medical professional and scientist, she is happy to pass on the numerous science studies who have been done by others like her who observe such patterns in the patients they see. They are carrying on this intuitive work, and validating is scientifically, being the integrated people they are who are able to balance spirituality and material life.
Another Doctor who writes of this is Canadian Gabor Mate, in his book "When the Body Says No".
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
so what exactly is it youre saying angelica? that if a person with illness truly wants to be well, they can refocus themselves and heal? all they have to do is want it enough?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
If I say a child fell in a pool and drowned, that is one thing. If I say a child fell in a pool, drowned, and brought it upon themselves, that is a very different thing.
If the toddler walks into the pool and dies, it is due to its actions and the effects. If a baby wails and swallows air, it develops the consequence of gas that it must live with. Once we enter this physical realm there are consequences to each tiniest cause we create. Even though we largely totally don't look at that. A baby is not given immunity from natural law. It's no more to blame for non-aware choice that causes them harm than their non-aware parent is. And yet, both must endure the consequences of non-aware (or unconscious) choice within natural law. No one has immunity.
At this point, people are totally unconscious of the patterns they create all the time. It's easy to shock people by pointing out behaviour they are unconscious of. People act out dramas. Children are in states of hypnotic suggestion perpetually and internalize the scripts we perpetuate. So, given people are for the most part unaware of their own energy, and the consequence of that...add in that they don't see how their own energy mixes with their child's energy, unsconciously....it's not surprising that people are oblivious to the causes and effects that they create.
For those who do consciously pay attention to and study these patterns, they emerge with conclusions. Ones that there is becoming a growing scientific body of evidence of! As I say, just wait and see how much it grows in 50 years. Or ignore it. It's your choice. The facts of cause and effect are what they are, independent of our awareness, or our opinions of it.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
so what exactly is it youre saying angelica? that if a person with illness truly wants to be well, they can refocus themselves and heal? all they have to do is want it enough?
People always want wellness. Or at least on the ego level, they believe they do.
What I am saying is that God doesn't strike us with illness. (remember, I responded to Roland stating so) I'm saying we create our patterns, mostly unconsciously, from morning to night. We have the will and choice to do what we want. We only must live with the consequences of so much as moving our little finger. No one escapes the consequences of their most minute unconscious cause.
I have great compassion for where humans are. And that we are so far away, in general, from understanding what we create in our separation from our power. We, therefore, must experience great pain.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
If the toddler walks into the pool and dies, it is due to its actions and the effects. If a baby wails and swallows air, it develops the consequence of gas that it must live with. Once we enter this physical realm there are consequences to each tiniest cause we create. Even though we largely totally don't look at that. A baby is not given immunity from natural law. It's no more to blame for non-aware choice that causes them harm than their non-aware parent is. And yet, both must endure the consequences of non-aware (or unconscious) choice within natural law. No one has immunity.
At this point, people are totally unconscious of the patterns they create all the time. It's easy to shock people by pointing out behaviour they are unconscious of. People act out dramas. Children are in states of hypnotic suggestion perpetually and internalize the scripts we perpetuate. So, given people are for the most part unaware of their own energy, and the consequence of that...add in that they don't see how their own energy mixes with their child's energy, unsconciously....it's not surprising that people are oblivious to the causes and effects that they create.
For those who do consciously pay attention to and study these patterns, they emerge with conclusions. Ones that there is becoming a growing scientific body of evidence of! As I say, just wait and see how much it grows in 50 years. Or ignore it. It's your choice. The facts of cause and effect are what they are, independent of our awareness, or our opinions of it.
i dont understand what youre trying to say here angelica. can you restate your assertion so I can understand it.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i dont understand what youre trying to say here angelica. can you restate your assertion so I can understand it.
Seriously?
When a baby gets very upset, crying, it can swallow air. If this happens, and the child develops gas, it must live with the consequence of the cause and effect.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I've also read numerous books that point out scientific studies that connect emotional patterns with illness in our bodies...it is very easy for me to fathom what that energy can do to us, when unresolved, moving through us. Considering emotions are energy, and energy moves in our bodies...
Such theories are as valid as the "we know nothing" theories. And such theories, once understood, I see validated all around me. I study the Chakras, and illness in certain areas correlate to chakra patterns. I can see the emotional patterns people carry with them. As do other intuitive healers. Whether people are up in arms about it or not.
At such a young age (5,6,7,8,yrs old) I don't see any established emotional patterns quite readily.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
When a baby gets very upset, crying, it can swallow air. If this happens, and the child develops gas, it must live with the consequence of the cause and effect.
the consequences?? are you serious? the baby is not in conscious control when it is upset. it does not have the comprehension skills to understand consequences on such a level.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
At such a young age (5,6,7,8,yrs old) I don't see any established emotional patterns quite readily.
I understand most don't.
I do see them very clearly, unfortunately.
Personalities are developed at age 3. Cause and effect starts from birth. Pre-birth. Conception. Still...this explanation I give you as a map to indicate what I see is the drop of water to the ocean of comprehending these patterns of energy that I observe and comprehend.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
the consequences?? are you serious? the baby is not in connscious control when it is upset. it does not have the comprehension skills to understand consequences.
This is funny!
You only literally see the manmade idea of consequences. You really just don't understand how each action has a natural consequence from conception.
This is my point. People are unaware of this. And it's right before our eyes.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
the consequences?? are you serious? the baby is not in conscious control when it is upset. it does not have the comprehension skills to understand consequences on such a level.
Just to make it clearer...did you notice where I earlier clearly pointed out that we do so unconsciously. No one brings hardship upon themselves consciously. Infant, child or 30 year old.
When we do something and are not aware of it, we still must experience the natural consequence of the action. This is a fact.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
You only literally see the manmade idea of consequences. You really just don't understand how each action has a natural consequence from conception.
This is my point. People are unaware of this. And it's right before our eyes.
dont condescend to me angelica. youve got no idea what i am aware of and what i have already dismissed as pure bullshit based on my own empirical evidence and growing enlightenment. how are you to know that i see only manmade consequences? how can you possibly make such an assertion?
but let me think for a minute... if a foetus self aborts then what is that telling us? is it saying that this potential child has decided the world is too fucked up for it to survive or want to survive. is it saying there is something physically or mentally wrong with this potential child, it is aware of this malady that will not allow it to live in our world to the best of its abilities and thus it chooses to 'quit' now? or does the fact that miscarriages happen merely tell us that something is wrong in the mixing and this child simply will not survive and thus has been selected for termination through no such action and awareness on the part of the potential child?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Just to make it clearer...did you notice where I earlier clearly pointed out that we do so unconsciously. No one brings hardship upon themselves consciously. Infant, child or 30 year old.
When we do something and are not aware of it, we still must experience the natural consequence of the action. This is a fact.
aah the unconscious. that catchall excuse. if we are conscious of our unconscious does that negate its unconsciousness?
well you know angelica i am always aware of the consequences of my actions. sometimes im so enlightened it scares me.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
One would be nice...
So if you go to McDonald's and ask for a cheesburger value meal and receive a new Craftsman 20oz ripclaw hammer instead you should consider your order fulfilled?
I'd still be hungry and wanting my f'ing cheeseburger!
I would keep the hammer, however
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
*runs and hides while preparing for the onslaught and to have my posts mysteriously go missing*
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
well god also provided for the potential for misinterpreting his entire existence
to such a point where millions of people deny he even exists.
but of course thats the fault of man for not understanding i suppose,
afterall how could we mere mortals possibly comprehend His majesty. :rolleyes:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
oh you disappoint me angelica. you speak of God creating the potential for illness and the potential for healing and yet when i bring up another of his potentialities you baulk.
i was not paying lip service to a 'characterisation i dont believe in', i was showing how ridiculous i thought what you said was. you rabbit on about how its our patterns that create illness in us and i find that such a crock of shit. by your rationale a child afflicted with cancer brought it upon themselves by their patterns? i cant begin to articulate how unfathomable that is.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
If you want to read in a moral judgment, that's fine. I am not doing so, however, so there is a big difference.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
whats to restate angelica? i said what i said plainly and clearly. do you not understand me?
you bring up illness and healing as potentialities of God's doing. when i bring up the potentiality of dismissing his existence you decide thats too much?
in my mind if God can create the potential for illness then surely he must create the potential for people to deny his very existence? where's the lip service?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
if this is your point...go to town! I am totally okay with your view! (and all views!)
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I look at kids with cancer and I often wonder.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
but thats what you said angelica. and i quote:
I think God creates the potential for illness and the potential for healing. It is us who create illness by our patterns; accidents; or healing for ourselves. Some issues are irreversible.
i was speaking illness angelica, not a child wandering off and drowning because its parent wasnt paying attention to it. i see the cause and effect there. bringing illness on itself as a child... that i don't see. and that was my contention.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
there wasnt really a question in my original assertion, just an observation on my part. it just makes me wonder is all.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I've also read numerous books that point out scientific studies that connect emotional patterns with illness in our bodies...it is very easy for me to fathom what that energy can do to us, when unresolved, moving through us. Considering emotions are energy, and energy moves in our bodies...
Such theories are as valid as the "we know nothing" theories. And such theories, once understood, I see validated all around me. I study the Chakras, and illness in certain areas correlate to chakra patterns. I can see the emotional patterns people carry with them. As do other intuitive healers. Whether people are up in arms about it or not.
Give it 50 years... Louise L Hay started bringing this stuff to the mainstream probably 20 or 30 years ago. One book I read was by a doctor - a neuropsychiatrist, whom the medical profession failed when she was ill, so she turned to intuitive healing (from Louise L Hay's school of thought). It worked for her, and she was healed. So years later, as a respected medical professional and scientist, she is happy to pass on the numerous science studies who have been done by others like her who observe such patterns in the patients they see. They are carrying on this intuitive work, and validating is scientifically, being the integrated people they are who are able to balance spirituality and material life.
Another Doctor who writes of this is Canadian Gabor Mate, in his book "When the Body Says No".
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
If the toddler walks into the pool and dies, it is due to its actions and the effects. If a baby wails and swallows air, it develops the consequence of gas that it must live with. Once we enter this physical realm there are consequences to each tiniest cause we create. Even though we largely totally don't look at that. A baby is not given immunity from natural law. It's no more to blame for non-aware choice that causes them harm than their non-aware parent is. And yet, both must endure the consequences of non-aware (or unconscious) choice within natural law. No one has immunity.
At this point, people are totally unconscious of the patterns they create all the time. It's easy to shock people by pointing out behaviour they are unconscious of. People act out dramas. Children are in states of hypnotic suggestion perpetually and internalize the scripts we perpetuate. So, given people are for the most part unaware of their own energy, and the consequence of that...add in that they don't see how their own energy mixes with their child's energy, unsconciously....it's not surprising that people are oblivious to the causes and effects that they create.
For those who do consciously pay attention to and study these patterns, they emerge with conclusions. Ones that there is becoming a growing scientific body of evidence of! As I say, just wait and see how much it grows in 50 years. Or ignore it. It's your choice. The facts of cause and effect are what they are, independent of our awareness, or our opinions of it.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
What I am saying is that God doesn't strike us with illness. (remember, I responded to Roland stating so) I'm saying we create our patterns, mostly unconsciously, from morning to night. We have the will and choice to do what we want. We only must live with the consequences of so much as moving our little finger. No one escapes the consequences of their most minute unconscious cause.
I have great compassion for where humans are. And that we are so far away, in general, from understanding what we create in our separation from our power. We, therefore, must experience great pain.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i dont understand what youre trying to say here angelica. can you restate your assertion so I can understand it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I assert that God can't heal amputees any more than he caused amputees on account that God does not exist.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
When a baby gets very upset, crying, it can swallow air. If this happens, and the child develops gas, it must live with the consequence of the cause and effect.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
At such a young age (5,6,7,8,yrs old) I don't see any established emotional patterns quite readily.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
the consequences?? are you serious? the baby is not in conscious control when it is upset. it does not have the comprehension skills to understand consequences on such a level.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I do see them very clearly, unfortunately.
Personalities are developed at age 3. Cause and effect starts from birth. Pre-birth. Conception. Still...this explanation I give you as a map to indicate what I see is the drop of water to the ocean of comprehending these patterns of energy that I observe and comprehend.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
You only literally see the manmade idea of consequences. You really just don't understand how each action has a natural consequence from conception.
This is my point. People are unaware of this. And it's right before our eyes.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
When we do something and are not aware of it, we still must experience the natural consequence of the action. This is a fact.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
dont condescend to me angelica. youve got no idea what i am aware of and what i have already dismissed as pure bullshit based on my own empirical evidence and growing enlightenment. how are you to know that i see only manmade consequences? how can you possibly make such an assertion?
but let me think for a minute... if a foetus self aborts then what is that telling us? is it saying that this potential child has decided the world is too fucked up for it to survive or want to survive. is it saying there is something physically or mentally wrong with this potential child, it is aware of this malady that will not allow it to live in our world to the best of its abilities and thus it chooses to 'quit' now? or does the fact that miscarriages happen merely tell us that something is wrong in the mixing and this child simply will not survive and thus has been selected for termination through no such action and awareness on the part of the potential child?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
aah the unconscious. that catchall excuse. if we are conscious of our unconscious does that negate its unconsciousness?
well you know angelica i am always aware of the consequences of my actions. sometimes im so enlightened it scares me.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say