why won't god heal amputees?

catefrances

angelica wrote:

If the toddler walks into the pool and dies, it is due to its actions and the effects. If a baby wails and swallows air, it develops the consequence of gas that it must live with. Once we enter this physical realm there are consequences to each tiniest cause we create. Even though we largely totally don't look at that. A baby is not given immunity from natural law. It's no more to blame for non-aware choice that causes them harm than their non-aware parent is. And yet, both must endure the consequences of non-aware (or unconscious) choice within natural law. No one has immunity.

At this point, people are totally unconscious of the patterns they create all the time. It's easy to shock people by pointing out behaviour they are unconscious of. People act out dramas. Children are in states of hypnotic suggestion perpetually and internalize the scripts we perpetuate. So, given people are for the most part unaware of their own energy, and the consequence of that...add in that they don't see how their own energy mixes with their child's energy, unsconciously....it's not surprising that people are oblivious to the causes and effects that they create.

For those who do consciously pay attention to and study these patterns, they emerge with conclusions. Ones that there is becoming a growing scientific body of evidence of! As I say, just wait and see how much it grows in 50 years. Or ignore it. It's your choice. The facts of cause and effect are what they are, independent of our awareness, or our opinions of it.

i dont understand what youre trying to say here angelica. can you restate your assertion so I can understand it.

Jeanie

We're not in Kansas anymore Toto!!

I assert that God can't heal amputees any more than he caused amputees on account that God does not exist.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

i dont understand what youre trying to say here angelica. can you restate your assertion so I can understand it.

Seriously?

When a baby gets very upset, crying, it can swallow air. If this happens, and the child develops gas, it must live with the consequence of the cause and effect.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

angelica wrote:

I don't anymore.

I've also read numerous books that point out scientific studies that connect emotional patterns with illness in our bodies...it is very easy for me to fathom what that energy can do to us, when unresolved, moving through us. Considering emotions are energy, and energy moves in our bodies...

Such theories are as valid as the "we know nothing" theories. And such theories, once understood, I see validated all around me. I study the Chakras, and illness in certain areas correlate to chakra patterns. I can see the emotional patterns people carry with them. As do other intuitive healers. Whether people are up in arms about it or not.

At such a young age (5,6,7,8,yrs old) I don't see any established emotional patterns quite readily.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

Seriously?

When a baby gets very upset, crying, it can swallow air. If this happens, and the child develops gas, it must live with the consequence of the cause and effect.

the consequences?? are you serious? the baby is not in conscious control when it is upset. it does not have the comprehension skills to understand consequences on such a level.

angelica

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

At such a young age (5,6,7,8,yrs old) I don't see any established emotional patterns quite readily.

I understand most don't.

I do see them very clearly, unfortunately.

Personalities are developed at age 3. Cause and effect starts from birth. Pre-birth. Conception. Still...this explanation I give you as a map to indicate what I see is the drop of water to the ocean of comprehending these patterns of energy that I observe and comprehend.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

the consequences?? are you serious? the baby is not in connscious control when it is upset. it does not have the comprehension skills to understand consequences.

This is funny!

You only literally see the manmade idea of consequences. You really just don't understand how each action has a natural consequence from conception.

This is my point. People are unaware of this. And it's right before our eyes.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

the consequences?? are you serious? the baby is not in conscious control when it is upset. it does not have the comprehension skills to understand consequences on such a level.

Just to make it clearer...did you notice where I earlier clearly pointed out that we do so unconsciously. No one brings hardship upon themselves consciously. Infant, child or 30 year old.

When we do something and are not aware of it, we still must experience the natural consequence of the action. This is a fact.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

This is funny!

You only literally see the manmade idea of consequences. You really just don't understand how each action has a natural consequence from conception.

This is my point. People are unaware of this. And it's right before our eyes.

dont condescend to me angelica. youve got no idea what i am aware of and what i have already dismissed as pure bullshit based on my own empirical evidence and growing enlightenment. how are you to know that i see only manmade consequences? how can you possibly make such an assertion?
but let me think for a minute... if a foetus self aborts then what is that telling us? is it saying that this potential child has decided the world is too fucked up for it to survive or want to survive. is it saying there is something physically or mentally wrong with this potential child, it is aware of this malady that will not allow it to live in our world to the best of its abilities and thus it chooses to 'quit' now? or does the fact that miscarriages happen merely tell us that something is wrong in the mixing and this child simply will not survive and thus has been selected for termination through no such action and awareness on the part of the potential child?

catefrances

angelica wrote:

Just to make it clearer...did you notice where I earlier clearly pointed out that we do so unconsciously. No one brings hardship upon themselves consciously. Infant, child or 30 year old.

When we do something and are not aware of it, we still must experience the natural consequence of the action. This is a fact.

aah the unconscious. that catchall excuse. if we are conscious of our unconscious does that negate its unconsciousness?
well you know angelica i am always aware of the consequences of my actions. sometimes im so enlightened it scares me.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

dont condescend to me angelica. youve got no idea what i am aware of and what i have already dismissed as pure bullshit based on my own empirical evidence and growing enlightenment. how are you to know that i see only manmade consequences? how can you possibly make such an assertion?
but let me think for a minute... if a foetus self aborts then what is that telling us? is it saying that this potential child has decided the world is too fucked up for it to survive or want to survive. is it saying there is something physically or mentally wrong with this potential child, it is aware of this malady that will not allow it to live in our world to the best of its abilities and thus it chooses to 'quit' now? or does the fact that miscarriages happen merely tell us that something is wrong in the mixing and this child simply will not survive and thus has been selected for termination through no such action and awareness on the part of the potential child?

read in any interpretation you like.

I'm pointing out what is self-evident before interpretation.

I'm saying:
"one swallows air...one gets gas"

I'm not saying:
"one swallows air...one gets gas...and therefore one wanted to get gas.


By the time you add in the interpretation, it's like any religious judgement of good/bad....you distort understanding of what actually happened.

This is because religious or not, athiest or not...98% of people see in dichotomy thinking of good/bad. People can't accept things as they are...they must add the extra judgment/interpretation.

It's where the vast majority is at this time.

it is not where I am coming from.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

People always want wellness. Or at least on the ego level, they believe they do.

What I am saying is that God doesn't strike us with illness. (remember, I responded to Roland stating so) I'm saying we create our patterns, mostly unconsciously, from morning to night. We have the will and choice to do what we want. We only must live with the consequences of so much as moving our little finger. No one escapes the consequences of their most minute unconscious cause.

I have great compassion for where humans are. And that we are so far away, in general, from understanding what we create in our separation from our power. We, therefore, must experience great pain.

i know... you said God creates the potential for it.

so let me ask you this then, does it work in reverse. if one can will oneself into health, can one make themselves ill through wishing and kill themselves psychically.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

aah the unconscious. that catchall excuse. if we are conscious of our unconscious does that negate its unconsciousness?
well you know angelica i am always aware of the consequences of my actions. sometimes im so enlightened it scares me.

What I am saying is whether the baby knows what the reaction to it's every action is...it still must experience each reaction, in every moment of every day.



The "unconscious" symbolizes all that we are unaware of. When I'm paying bills, I'm not conscious of the processes of my stomach digesting food. And yet, there it happens anyway! We can never be conscious of each detail, because we exist in time where we must choose where to direct our sliver of awareness. Our 10% cone of awareness. By choosing to be aware of one thing, we become unaware of another.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

i know... you said God creates the potential for it.

so let me ask you this then, does it work in reverse. if one can will oneself into health, can one make themselves ill through wishing and kill themselves psychically.

When one is wishing itself maladaptation, it is already in the throes of maladaptation.

One does not will one's self into health. Where do you get the idea that they can, since I've never stated that? and in these conversations in the past, I have clearly said that we do not will ourselves well.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

i know... you said God creates the potential for it.

we can insert any one of our own interpretation as well:

1) the laws of the universe are the source of the potential for illness.

2) nature is the source of the potential for illness.

3) God is the source of the potential for illness.

4) create your own!!

At some point, we all have our personal way of understanding what the source of energy is.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

When one is wishing itself maladaption, it is already in the throes of maladaption.

One does not will one's self into health. Where do you get the idea that they can, since I've never stated that? and in these conversations in the past, I have clearly said that we do not will ourselves well.

you said, "it is us who create illness by our patterns; accidents; or healing for ourselves." so will is absent form our actions is that waht your saying?
you also bought up louise hay and intuitive healing. if being so aware and using that awareness is not using energy and therefore will, then what is it?

angelica

catefrances wrote:

you said, "it is us who create illness by our patterns; accidents; or healing for ourselves." so will is absent form our actions is that waht your saying?
you also bought up louise hay and intuitive healing. if being so aware and using that awareness is not using energy and therefore will, then what is it?

I would like to know what you mean by "will", as we may have different meanings here.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

we can insert any one of our own interpretation as well:

1) the laws of the universe are the source of the potential for illness.

2) nature is the source of the potential for illness.

3) God is the source of the potential for illness.

4) create your own!!

At some point, we all have our personal way of understanding what the source of energy is.

i know the source of my energy is myself. everything that i am radiates out from within. it flows from me and meets up with other energies and that's what i think 'it' is all about.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

I would like to know what you mean by "will", as we may have different meanings here.

for me will is a conscious manifestation of a force/energy(want or need) from which all our actions and thoughts originate.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

you said, "it is us who create illness by our patterns; accidents; or healing for ourselves." so will is absent form our actions is that waht your saying?
you also bought up louise hay and intuitive healing. if being so aware and using that awareness is not using energy and therefore will, then what is it?

Also, I don't understand what you mean re: Louise L Hay.

Being aware and using that awareness is using energy, imo. Being aware and choosing is using will in my opinion.

I also go much, much farther than conventional thought. I personally understand many levels of consciousness people generally don't. I see that our unconscious nature acts intelligently, with a different level of "consciousness" . The problem is, 98% of people are not aligned with their full selves and that level of consciousness, except maybe in dreams, etc. They are aligned with their sliver of awareness, and think the sliver is who they are. They think they are the drop of water and don't realize they are the ocean. this is widely accepted psychologically speaking.

Our "unconscious" acts with a different kind of intelligence that we deny. And I see that it acts in our best interests, in terms of our personal evolution, at all times, even when we ignore it, deny it, conflict with it, or try to will it to death.

Trying to separate from our full selves, as we do all the time, is like trying to hold a beach ball under water. Not only is it impossible, but we use up incredible energy in each day doing so that we deplete ourselves with futile action. Over and over, each day. Which keeps us stuck in our patterns.

We willfully choose to do so. We are focusing on what we are doing on one level, unaware of the consequence on another.