Does it make is racist...

Ahnimus

sponger wrote:

Nope, I do not. You're imagining that. I didn't bring psychology into this until you asked me if I've ever read a psychology textbook. Then you tried to justify your opinion by mentioning all of the textbooks that you've read.

If it was just a joke, you would've called it that after I disagreed with it. At any rate, you tried to support the opinion behind your joke with your own type of analysis. So, I'm not buying it. You're just covering your ass after getting caught with your pants down. Live and learn from it.

Also, there is nothing personal between you and me. There's only you not knowing what you're talking about then me correcting you. Correction:there's only you just spouting whatever comes to mind while I keep you on planet earth. If you see a "personal" conflict in that, then it's just your imagination.

Maybe so, but it seems there's a lot that you still don't know, that are obvious to just about anyone who might actually be reading your posts. You have a problem with being argumentative. That's something you might not know.

I don't normally get angry, but you are really starting to bug me pal. Why can't you just let it go? Other people are entitled to their opinions. Why do you have to get offensive?

sponger

Ahnimus wrote:

I don't normally get angry, but you are really starting to bug me pal. Why can't you just let it go? Other people are entitled to their opinions. Why do you have to get offensive?

I don't particularly enjoy this back and forth stuff either. If you want me to respect your entitlement to your own opinion, then just think about what you're saying before you quote my posts and disagree with them. All you have to do is just put some thought into your opinions instead of wasting my time with your mindless nonsense and imaginary arguments. I normally don't give these kinds of instructions to people, but you are undoubtedly deserving of them. I think you maybe still have some problems upstairs that cause you to challenge everything a person says regardless of whether or not you really believe what you're saying. The result is you having to be corrected and corrected over and over again. It's like you just want someone to keep paying attention to you, so you just say whatever you have to say to capture that person's interest. It's just something to be aware of. If you were really that bothered by someone not respecting your opinion, you wouldn't go out of your way challenge theirs.

Ahnimus

sponger wrote:

I don't particularly enjoy this back and forth stuff either. If you want me to respect your entitlement to your own opinion, then just think about what you're saying before you quote my posts and disagree with them. All you have to do is just put some thought into your opinions instead of wasting my time with your mindless nonsense and imaginary arguments. I normally don't give these kinds of instructions to people, but you are undoubtedly deserving of them. I think you maybe still have some problems upstairs that cause you to challenge everything a person says regardless of whether or not you really believe what you're saying. The result is you having to be corrected and corrected over and over again. It's like you just want someone to keep paying attention to you, so you just say whatever you have to say to capture that person's interest. It's just something to be aware of. If you were really that bothered by someone not respecting your opinion, you wouldn't go out of your way challenge theirs.

With 977 posts, you aren't new to this board Dave. People disagree all the time. I'm not going out of my way to challenge you. I'm just giving my opinion in response to you saying the mind is simple. I'm saying it's not. Then you said that it's simple in that it's a complicated heirarchy. Which essentially is agreeing with me. So what exactly is going on? It's certainly not what you've described. This can end any time, all you have to do is agree to agree and stop being offensive.

sponger

Ahnimus wrote:

Then you said that it's simple in that it's a complicated heirarchy.

I did not say the heirarchy itself was complicated.

You see, the problem is not that we're not agreeing to disagree. The problem is that you need attention, and so we have the situation here with you just making stuff up or at least blatantly misinterpreting things for the sake of argument. If you just try to stay linear in your points of view, the world will become a different place for you. Just try it.

Ahnimus

sponger wrote:

I did not say the heirarchy itself was complicated.

You see, the problem is not that we're not agreeing to disagree. The problem is that you need attention, and so we have the situation here with you just making stuff up or at least blatantly misinterpreting things for the sake of argument. If you just try to stay linear in your points of view, the world will become a different place for you. Just try it.

Explain the heirarchy then omniscient one.

I don't need attention, certainly not from you. If I needed attention I'd go to the bar or something. I deffinately don't want your attention. I'm trying to get rid of it or get you to talk like a decent person.

sponger

Ahnimus wrote:

Explain the heirarchy then omniscient one.

The most basic need is the physiological need. This pertains to our physical health. Eating, sleeping, drinking...etc. These all stem from the physiological need.

Then comes the needs involving personal safety, emotional support, a positive self image (confidence in one's own ability to achieve one's own goals), and then finally the need to feel challenged.

Being shit on is a direct violation of the first need. We all strive to maintain our health. Not only do our natural senses turn us off from going near shit, but it just isn't something we want personal contact with due its bacterial nature.

Sex, on the other hand, is part of the physiological needs. So, to make a direct comparison between sex and being shit on is to violate the fundamental understanding of a person's natural need.

I don't need attention, certainly not from you. If I needed attention I'd go to the bar or something. I deffinately don't want your attention. I'm trying to get rid of it or get you to talk like a decent person.

Actions speak louder than words. If you were so hung up over my one reference to the simplicity of the human mind, we would have dealt with it a long, long time ago. Instead you want to dilly dally. I wouldn't be surprised if you were bringing the need thing up just to once again try to keep the argument going because you do in fact need that attention. Like I said, if you didn't just need the attention, you would've focused on that subject much earlier.

Ahnimus

sponger wrote:

The most basic need is the physiological need. This pertains to our physical health. Eating, sleeping, drinking...etc. These all stem from the physiological need.

Then comes the needs involving personal safety, emotional support, a positive self image (confidence in one's own ability to achieve one's own goals), and then finally the need to feel challenged.

Being shit on is a direct violation of the first need. We all strive to maintain our health. Not only do our natural senses turn us off from going near shit, but it just isn't something we want personal contact with due its bacterial nature.

Sex, on the other hand, is part of the physiological needs. So, to make a direct comparison between sex and being shit on is to violate the fundamental understanding of a person's natural need.

Being shit on is always associated with the physiological need to have sex. What you are describing is the needs of the body, not the mind. You never suggested that C's sexual preferences were part of physiology and frankly I don't think it has anything to do with the physiological need for sex. Psychobiology has shown some predisposition to sexual perversions. However I don't think racial preference is part of that. If it is then it's biological and I don't see that being changed short of medicinal treatment. Those are animal control mechanisms built-in to our brains. Not the mind, the mind is either an extension of the soul or a subjective product of the brain, depending on your beliefs. Your examples are more like thought triggers. They may be responsible for some thoughts that enter the mind, but not in their entirety.

If that's what you mean then I completely understand. That's originally what I knew. Even those basic impulses can be ignored by consciousness in place of something else.

sponger

Ahnimus wrote:

Being shit on is always associated with the physiological need to have sex.

Only in the case of sexual perversions, which are an abnormality. That's what I mean when I say that you deliberately misinterpret the obvious just to keep the argument going.

What you are describing is the needs of the body, not the mind. You never suggested that C's sexual preferences were part of physiology and frankly I don't think it has anything to do with the physiological need for sex.

If not for the sex itself, then for love and relationship, which are part of the basic needs again. Additionally, her original post dealt with the subject matter of sex. She specifically mentioned her first sexual experience with a black man as relevant to her preference.

Psychobiology has shown some predisposition to sexual perversions. However I don't think racial preference is part of that. If it is then it's biological and I don't see that being changed short of medicinal treatment. Those are animal control mechanisms built-in to our brains. Not the mind, the mind is either an extension of the soul or a subjective product of the brain, depending on your beliefs. Your examples are more like thought triggers. They may be responsible for some thoughts that enter the mind, but not in their entirety.

Right, thought triggers don't represent the mind in its entirety. But, your analysis deviates from those thought triggers only in the sense of sexual perversions, which are totally irrelevant to this discussion.

And then you call sexual perversions biological...hilarious.

You see, that's what I'm talking about. You clearly ignore the obvious just to keep the argument going. You have to reminded again and again of what is relevant and what isn't.

I think maybe that you aren't just seeking attention. I think you really do have a problem with maintaining linear thought processes. I hope you get well.

Cuntified C

Sorry to bump this back up again, but I agree with the poster who said this simple topic has had so many twists and turns; red heads, France and french speaking posts, arguements dealing with the psychology of human behaviour...incredible.

Back to the original point. Maybe there is a point to the fact that the first black guy I had physical contact with was not exactly pleasurable looking back. I have typically always found myself more attracted to white than black men. Even if I can see what the fuss is about a particular black man - I wouldn't be attracted to him physically. Whenever a black guy takes an interest in me, they tend to be the guys I wouldn't be in anyhow you know, way too old, or married or just not my type. That's not to say that all black guys are like that because they are not. If a white guy is attracted to me than it's my heart or something about my personality that they like as much as anything else. But there are no race distinctions between sleazy guys and decent guys, you find them everywhere! However, even when I meet a black guy, and I were to find him a decent person with a very good personality/ heart I still am not attracted to him. Some people might find that very offensive or strange. I guess it's not though.

sponger

Cuntified C wrote:

Whenever a black guy takes an interest in me, they tend to be the guys I wouldn't be in anyhow you know, way too old, or married or just not my type.

If a white guy is attracted to me than it's my heart or something about my personality that they like as much as anything else.

In the rest of your post, you pay lip service to the universality of male qualities or lack thereof amongst all races. However, I think those two quotes above reflect your personal experiences, and therefore reflect how you really feel.

You feel that as though black men (or at least the ones you've met) do not appreciate in you what white men do. And, you know, I don't blame you for thinking that.

Hip-hop and rap, for instance, are some of the most sexist mainstream stuff out there these days. The whole referring to women as "bitches" on a mainstream level originated from the hip-hop culture, I believe. Or it at least originated from the 70's pimp culture, which still is synonymous with the black culture. I remember listening to Beyonce talk about how it's almost impossible for a female hip-hop artist to get a video or record without a male presence in there somewhere. I think she was referring to how she needed puff daddy to give her credibility.

At the same time, the media in general isn't very kind to blacks. I know there are lots and lots of people who will say I'm just another excuse-making whiner, but I do believe that the media has a tendency to portray blacks in a negative light. Maybe not so much these days with all of the PC stuff going on. But, I think it's safe to say that society has a long way to go before it really honestly believes that black and whites are the same.

So, for that reason, you might not be so willing to forgive black men as easily as you would white men. Well, it's a different culture anyway. Not all black men are Bill Cosby. But, not all white men are Alan Thicke. From what I understand, the black culture is one that places the male on a much more dominant position over women than the white culture does.

Which leads me to my next question: How did your parents get along?

Cuntified C

sponger wrote:

Which leads me to my next question: How did your parents get along?

not good, but I won't go into that on a messageboard. he left 30 years ago and doesn't know what I look like. However he has other children and they have all dated black so his departure (from what I understood about it) had nothing to do with it. That was a good thing I think.

sponger

Cuntified C wrote:

not good, but I won't go into that on a messageboard. he left 30 years ago and doesn't know what I look like. However he has other children and they have all dated black so his departure (from what I understood about it) had nothing to do with it. That was a good thing I think.

His other children have all dated black, but are those other children female? Also, was their first sexual experience with a black man a negative one and at such an early age? And was your father at least present for his other children?

Of course, it's not logical for me to say that you like white guys just because your black dad was a schmuck and because your first experience with a black guy was negative.

But, I think those two factors plus the media and the male chauvinistic black culture have kind of all led to your present preference.

So is it racist? I think so. All psychoanalytical theories aside, the fact remains that you consciously choose whites over other races. And any conscious effort to distinguish between color is racism. If you were to , say, consciously choose blacks over whites, that's still racism because you are still concsciously distinguishing between color.

On the same token, I think it might also be culturalism. I'm not going to deny that white males tend to treat their women better than black males on average. I guess that's the case. I don't know. You aren't making an overt effort to seek out nice black guys, but I think that has to do with the fact that the black men in your life already let you down. On the other hand, it isn't exactly customary for women to write off an entire race of men as a result of those circumstnaces. But, like I said, black men were already fighting an uphill battle in your eyes as a result of other factors such as the media and the male chauvinistic culture.

But, here's what I also think. I think the part of you that hasn't forgiven black men is also a part of you that possibly doesn't forgive the black part of yourself. Like I said, you are making a conscious distinguishment between color. And perhaps this conscious distinguishment between color applies to your own self-image whether or not you may or may not realize it. Perhaps there's a part of you that feels like you identify with whites more than you do blacks. In which case, there might be an inner conflict between your black and white self. And it might not be until you forgive the black part of yourself that you find inner peace between you and your self image.

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

Psychology is something I was subjected to at a very young age. My mother always had at least one psychologist and she put me and my siblings through it most of our youth. Psychology played a role in destroying my life. I used to go to board rooms where about seven people would sit around and talk about me. I was asked questions and they analyzed everything. They would come to conclusions that would instantly impact me. These people were my psychologist, my counselor, my doctor, my school counselor, my parents and my probation officer when I started commiting crimes. Everything they tried to do to me was fundamentally flawed. It was all a quick fix. They assumed all of my problems could be fixed with simple measures. They tried putting me in the hospital for a month, forcing me to consume antihistemines, sending me to a correctional facility and community service. None of it addressed my real problems. I addressed my own problems, I cured myself from myself and those people still can't figure it out. They were licensed professionals and I was a kid. In the end it was pretty simple, but getting there took time and understanding. It took friends and not analysts.

considering about 3 posts earlier you admitted that you had homicidal tendencies and deviant sexual desires, im pretty relieved that you were in therapy. sponger has a point, and i noticed this in the other thread. you dont make any "points" of fact in your arguments. you talk about what happened to you and act like whatever you experience is the norm of human behavior. if it happened to you, it must be the norm. id say you probably could still benefit from some counseling becos you seem desperate to divulge as many details about your personal life as you can, it comes off like you're looking for sympathy or a pat on the back for how much you've been through or how amazing it is you're still here. it seems like you're desperate for somebody to talk to about these things, and that's exactly what counseling is for.

cornnifer

Cuntified C wrote:

To say I don't date people from my own ethnic background? I am a black woman who has never been on a date with a black man in my life; neither have I slept with a black man in 16 years, and I'm 32. I don't date a lot to be honest, but when I do, it's always white people. I have nothing bad to say about black men - there are good ones and bad ones out there just like with all men. Just like with all people for that matter! I don't see a problem with people like me, who have a tendancy to date outside their race. I just think you make a connect to a person according to their spirit or personality rather than their skin colour or cultural background. However, a LOT of black people - especially women - would find it very offensive to hear of a black person never dating their race, and that annoys me to be honest as I think it's none of their business and not an issue. I don't find black men attractive, and never have done. I don't know why as there are some who are gorgeous, and I would never rule out dating a black man in the future, but I DO prefer to date white men as I do find that I tend to feel more attraction towards them. I don't know if I'd call it a preference or just a tendancy but this is honestly how I feel and I'm just interested to know your thoughts about it.

i don't think it makes you racist at all, but, i must admit i think it is a little weird. Does it matter who you date? No, of course not. My only concern is that your aversion to Black men goes much deeper than a simple unattraction. i hope it isn't a combination of your one bad experience (which is one of many reasons people should not be having sex at 15 , but none of my business) and your buying into negative stereotypes about Black men i.e lazy, lacking ambition, unwilling to commit, etc. i hear you saying it has nothing to do with it, and i hope you're right. i can't help wondering though.

Ahnimus

soulsinging wrote:

considering about 3 posts earlier you admitted that you had homicidal tendencies and deviant sexual desires, im pretty relieved that you were in therapy. sponger has a point, and i noticed this in the other thread. you dont make any "points" of fact in your arguments. you talk about what happened to you and act like whatever you experience is the norm of human behavior. if it happened to you, it must be the norm. id say you probably could still benefit from some counseling becos you seem desperate to divulge as many details about your personal life as you can, it comes off like you're looking for sympathy or a pat on the back for how much you've been through or how amazing it is you're still here. it seems like you're desperate for somebody to talk to about these things, and that's exactly what counseling is for.

I share my personal experience because I'm not afraid of it. Because I am over it, and I am not ashamed of myself. There is a lot of value in experience that you don't get in a textbook. I actually don't have any issues, contrary to what you believe. I also know how to spell "because", but I don't rip into you about that. I am willing to guess you know how to spell it and just spell it wrong for your own amusement. I normally just ignore it. I'm kind of glad you shared your opinion of me, because now my opinion of you is degraded to an appropriate level. I don't know why people like you and sponger need to become hostile with people. Maybe the psyche majors can explain it. You don't actually have to get angry, anger is rarely a good thing and no one makes you angry but yourself. That's why anger management counseling is great.

sponger

I don't think anyone became hostile with you, ahnimus. We're just trying to help you see how you are. If you are interpreting that as hostility, then maybe you do have some issues. Perhaps when people become critical of you in any way, you interpret that as a deliberate attack on your personality that can only be motivated by personal reasons. I think you have what's known as a "mask of sanity".

A "mask of sanity" is a creation of people who are struggling to deal with their own issues. They wear this mask so that their own emotional imbalances don't become obvious. Once that mask of sanity is challenged by another person, the mask wearer usually gets upset.

And here was your reaction right after I suggested that you don't know yourself as well as you think that you do.

I don't normally get angry, but you are really starting to bug me pal. Why can't you just let it go? Other people are entitled to their opinions. Why do you have to get offensive?

That is the reaction of someone whose mask of sanity has developed a hole or crack. After all, in that quote, you're accusing me of not being to let things go after you continually quote my posts in disagreement and suggest that I don't understand what you're saying. It's the kind of defensive counter-accusations that are typical of someone who is having trouble maintaining his hold on the appearance of "sanity".

And, again, I'm not getting angry with you. I'm just trying to help you see what's going on with you. I admit that it's a little frustrating to have to deal with someone who twists the other person's words and deliberately makes inconsistent statements for the sake of being argumentative. But, I don't let that frustration cloud my understanding of how you are and why you do the things that you do.

I don't want this to become another thread with just two people going back and forth about a subject unrelated to the original topic, so I'll leave it up to you from this point on to just be aware of your own motivations and thoughts before you post.

Ahnimus

Good, because your analysis is wrong. So just leave it up to me to analyze myself. If other people want to let you analyze them, then that is their prerogative. Whatever mask you decide to put on me in your mind is also your prerogative. Please, just keep it to yourself.

Cuntified C

cornnifer wrote:

i don't think it makes you racist at all, but, i must admit i think it is a little weird. Does it matter who you date? No, of course not. My only concern is that your aversion to Black men goes much deeper than a simple unattraction. i hope it isn't a combination of your one bad experience (which is one of many reasons people should not be having sex at 15 , but none of my business) and your buying into negative stereotypes about Black men i.e lazy, lacking ambition, unwilling to commit, etc. i hear you saying it has nothing to do with it, and i hope you're right. i can't help wondering though.

I don't buy into negative stereotyping of black men at all. There are some black men that I have met who are intelligent, erudite, and very decent in character. Same as with anyone else, there are some that aren't as well.

Cuntified C

Ahnimus wrote:

Good, because your analysis is wrong. So just leave it up to me to analyze myself. If other people want to let you analyze them, then that is their prerogative. Whatever mask you decide to put on me in your mind is also your prerogative. Please, just keep it to yourself.

That's all well and good you saying don't analyse me, but the more you lay yourself bare, the more you leave it up to other people to do what they will with whatever you present them with. Some may judge you or analyse you, and as this is a democratic message board, they may well see fit to post a response or a reply to what you say, analytically or not. As long as they are not being disrespectful to you or flamming you on line, is it not their right to have an opinion too? Just a thought...

sponger

C:

In an earlier post when you were describing the situation with your dad, you ended your post with "and that is a good thing I guess." What did you mean by that?