Give me a break, the mind is not that simple. Have you ever opened a psychology text book? Maybe a criminology text book? What about a neruoscience text book? They are usually pretty thick and there is usually a lot of information in them. Or maybe they should just read "just call Sponger".
If the mind is so simple, why do some people like red more than blue, some people like to wear black clothes and not white. Some people like spinach and brussel sprouts, while others don't. Some people like rap music and others like country music. I agree it's all what you feed your mind and perception is the key, but sometimes changing that perception can have negative effects as well. Some times it's not the mind that is complicated, so much as it is everything else.
You are basically saying that liking red more than blue is a disorder and people who don't like blue should paint all of their walls purple to get used to it.
I have opened a psychology textbook. I've opened quite a few. I practically minored in it in college as I tried to satisfy as many GE requirements as possible with psych courses at the lower and upper division level. I sat in on countless group therapy sessions with permission from the therapists and the patients in order to satisfy extra-curricular extra credit.
But, I'm not trying to say that I'm some kind of psychotherapist. It just so happens that when I read your posts, I see that you lack a fundamental understanding of how the human mind typically works.
And I don't mean to insult you when I say that what you've been doing so far is copying and pasting studies and definitions that you almost completely lack the ability to interpret, wasting the time of those who have to read your nonsense as well as quite possibilty your own. And, of course, there's just no way that you'll ever accept that notion. After all, you have opened up your g/f's criminology textbook, thus making you an expert on how our penal system should work.
So, back to my observation. The brain is a very simple thing in that it functions in terms of a hierarchy of motivations. Those motivations branch off into a myriad of different interpretations, and thus you have the many, many variations of the human personality.
But, those motivations still follow a basic pattern of similarities. That is, it generally isn't normal for a person to enjoy being shit on. It's just not healthy and normal. And there you are trying to compare that to the different preferences people have in terms of music, color...etc. That just goes to show that this very simple fundamental difference in human preferences really is too complicated for you to understand. If you really are interested in truly learning about human nature, then just be quiet for awhile and open your ears for once.
I have opened a psychology textbook. I've opened quite a few. I practically minored in it in college as I tried to satisfy as many GE requirements as possible with psych courses at the lower and upper division level. I sat in on countless group therapy sessions with permission from the therapists and the patients in order to satisfy extra-curricular extra credit.
But, I'm not trying to say that I'm some kind of psychotherapist. It just so happens that when I read your posts, I see that you lack a fundamental understanding of how the human mind typically works.
And I don't mean to insult you when I say that what you've been doing so far is copying and pasting studies and definitions that you almost completely lack the ability to interpret, wasting the time of those who have to read your nonsense as well as quite possibilty your own. And, of course, there's just no way that you'll ever accept that notion. After all, you have opened up your g/f's criminology textbook, thus making you an expert on how our penal system should work.
So, back to my observation. The brain is a very simple thing in that it functions in terms of a hierarchy of motivations. Those motivations branch off into a myriad of different interpretations, and thus you have the many, many variations of the human personality.
But, those motivations still follow a basic pattern of similarities. That is, it generally isn't normal for a person to enjoy being shit on. It's just not healthy and normal. And there you are trying to compare that to the different preferences people have in terms of music, color...etc. That just goes to show that this very simple fundamental difference in human preferences really is too complicated for you to understand. If you really are interested in truly learning about human nature, then just be quiet for awhile and open your ears for once.
Haha whatever man. I know how the mind works in a lot of ways. I've applied the concepts to my own life and I've been very successful. I've learned to appreciate most things in life, where I didn't appreciate them before. I've learned to admit when I am wrong and take a stand when I am right.
Anyway, I'm not going into all of it with you. Not only have I read the textbooks, I've studied the ongoing research of psychology, sociology, neuroscience and evolutionary biology. Maybe not to the extent as a professional. I've also listened to the teachings of Anthony Robbins, Steven Covey and so on. I've also applied these concepts to my own life with success and I have plenty of examples.
If you were so privledged, you could ask people that know me about my life and they will tell you I've travelled a long and horrific path through life and I've come a long way mentally. I've recovered from psychotic behaviour and homicidal tendancies. I've refined my sexual desires to the point where I find almost all women attractive and yet, I don't allow it to control me.
A wise man once said to me "The greatest thing to ever happen to me was losing my desire for sex." he said that happened around the age of 50 and the reason it was the greatest thing to happen is because sex is the prime motivator in peoples lives. It drives them to do things they normally wouldn't do, it makes people irrational and irresponsible. I won't say I am perfect in this regard, I still think about sex every 10 seconds, but I don't hit on every girl I see, I actually very rarely hit on girls.
Anyway, there is much point in discussing this with you, because you don't want me to be right. That is the main reason for this, it's not that I'm wrong. I'm not saying you are wrong either, I'm just saying the mind isn't that simplified unless the individual realizes the simplicity of it. Most people are victims of their thoughts and emotions, they say things like "but I love him" as if they are victims of love, when in reality love is subjective, it's almost worthless. It's a plague to our species, it's motivated almost entirely by sex and results in a brutal addiction.
The only thing sex has going for it besides feeling good is the health benefits. But people get caught up in it. A friend once said "I haven't had sex in a month, I'm going to go insane." at that point, I had been abstinant for 4 years and was perfectly sane. He was victimized by his own mind and I was in control of it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I wish you were right. I wish you really did have something useful and insightful to say. I wish you could offer a different perspective on this situation that really could shed light on the issues. At which point, I would gladly acknowledge your wisdom and contribution.
But, so far, you haven't offered much in the way of an intelligent and informed perspective regarding the topic at hand. You've done a lot of "if you knew me" and "I've read this and that", but you've shown little to support those claims.
The whole "the world revolves around sex" theory is something pretty much everyone realizes own their own very early in life. It's obvious common sense, not the anecdotal wisdom of a 50yr old wise man. The fact that you sit there and try to say that this type of knowledge somehow validates your background on these matters only goes to show that you hold your knowledge in a higher regard than it truly deserves.
But, if you want to keep getting schooled, just keep responding. I think maybe you enjoy it.
The first time I had sex. Was with a girl named Brandy. She cheated on me 18 times. Should I not be attracted to girls named Brandy? Or since she was white, should I not be attracted to girls that are white?
A bad experience alone is not enough. I was hit by a truck when I was 7, when I was 10 I was in a car accident with my mother and sister. Should I be afraid to drive? Maybe since they were both Fords I should be afraid of Ford vehicles?
I was in a McDonald's once with some so-called friends. Some gangstas came in and my friends moved to a different booth. The gangstas sat down with me, forced me to empty my pockets out, took my lighter and burned my hand quite severely. None of the other patrons, or the staff, or my friends did anything to stop them, or were willing to testify against them. Should I be afraid of having friends or eating at McDonald's?
I was at a fair once, called Sea Fair with rides, glow sticks and fireworks. It was in my hometown a small town with population 24k. We had one fair a year and pretty much everyone went. In the middle of the fair I was hunted down and beaten by what I approximate to be 50 guys. I tried to run away and kept asking carnies and patrons to help me, but no one would get involved, unless I paid them. Eventually I was caught. I was made to kneel down and apologize to this girl Julia, whom I mentioned before. Then I was beaten some more until the police eventually showed up. The police simply drove me home, about 15 kilometers out into the bush, where I was staying on an old farm with a woman. She wasn't home. Should I be afraid to go to fairs? Should I be afraid of that kind of situation happening again?
You see, I'm not afraid of any of those things. It's not enough for one little incident to drastically affect a person's mind, or at least not every time. Everyone is different and many people going through that would have gone insane and/or killed someone. I almost did go completely insane. I actually met with a dozen or so counselors, pscyhologists and psychoanalysts and none of them could help me from feeling worthless and destroyed. It was a series of events that caused me to feel that way. Not just one. The whole thing was pretty complicated.
Now personal experience aside, there are many cases of people that have serious mental problems that can't be simply explained. Charles Starkweather, Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Michael Jackson and so on. I know a guy that studied psychology and criminology. He says those people are possesed by the will of Satan. That's probably because he's also a diehard christian.
There is always what appears to be a simple solution, but it's never that simple. Take obesity, I'm sure anyone who is obese knows there is a simple solution, stop eating so much, or change your diet. That alone isn't enough to motivate them to do it, the problem is in their minds and it needs to be overcome, it's not simple, it's rather complicated. They probably also have to exercise a lot which is another factor.
With as far as I've come there is still one thing I admit to fault. I smoke, and quite a lot. I smoked 3 packs a day at one time. I just can't seem to quit. My grandfather died from it, my father and grandmother have both had multiple heart attacks from smoking. I am broke most of the time since cigarettes are so expensive. I can feel the smoking killing me. But it's not a simple thing to quit, it's actually quite complicated. See it's not just the nicotine I am addicted to, it's also the inability of my brain to produce satisfaction in the absence of nicotine. It's also the habit of always having a cigarette in my mouth and hands, having a smoke after eating, when I wake up, when I walk in or out of the door. Everything has become a trigger for smoking. I know I can beat it, but it's just not that simplified. Not everything is psychological either, hence smoking is an addiction and not a habit. There is a real chemical effect, if you've ever quit taking heroin or quit smoking you might know what I'm talking about. The theory isn't enough to truly understand it. It's not like quiting a nervous tick, it's like quiting a hardcore psychoactive drug like heroin.. when the brain has aquired a chemical dependancy on it.
There are chemicals produced in the brain called peptides that the body becomes addicted to. Emotional states are responsible for some of these chemicals. People become chemically addicted to emotional states. Like smoking or doing heroin. You can't just expect someone to give up the addiction of an emotional state by telling them their feelings are wrong.
Now, if what I've told you hasn't shocked you, you haven't fully understood it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Now, if what I've told you hasn't shocked you, you haven't fully understood it.
That's the problem. You think everything you say is some kind of unique and profound insight. But, it's really common knowledge. I've sat for hours in group therapy sessions listening to peoples' stories that make your life seem like an episode of Leave it to Beaver.
I'm not sure how old you are, but I think you're at that stage where people think they know everything there is to know, and that's that. In a couple of years you'll look back and realize how naive you used to be by thinking your situation was so shocking and unique. You'll realize that you were one of the lucky ones - that you didn't have it half as bad as many, many adolescents in our society.
You still for some reason think that men and women have the same views of sex. That in it of itself only means that you know next to nothing about the ins and outs of human sexuality. I'm not going to bother explaining it to you because you seem hell bent on proving how unique and special your insight is.
In describing obesity, you didn't even bother paying lip service to the concept of thyroid disorders or the tendency of parents to use food as a reward, thus causing people to subconsciously "reward" themselves with food later on in life. These two concepts are fundamental initial approaches to understanding obesity, yet they are still far beyond your level of understanding or awareness.
Your nicotine addiction analysis is still juvenile at best. Where you ever got the idea that anyone but yourself wasn't aware of those facts already is beyond me. Again, it's that belief that you have that everything you know is special and unique, and that no one else could possibly understand it.
Again, if you ever truly want to learn about the self, just listen more than you talk.
Holy Cow! This thread has taken SO many twists and turns that my head is spinning... I'm gonna try and sum all my thoughts up in one post (of what I can remember), so please forgive me if it is nonsensical...
First off, to the original poster: Your preferences in a "mate" are your preferences. It has nothing to do with your being racist- you are attracted to what you are attracted to. It is my understanding that racism is about hatred. You don't HATE black men, do you? I am a white female, about as white you can get. For whatever reason, I am particularly attracted to ethnic men- hispanic, asian, american indian... but there are "white men" out there who have turned my head as well. When it comes down to it... looks don't last, personality does.
Secondly, in this day and age, inter-racial relationships and births are so prevalent that you really can't tell who is what anymore. Eventually, if time allows, there will probably be one universal color of people as everyone of every race comes together in love & marriage (Just speculation). Depending on where you live, mixed race children can be more prevalent than mono-race (is that a word?) children. I have a very good friend who is Polish & Irish (?) and doesn't look ANYTHING like I would think either of those ethnicities would look like... people CONSTANTLY ask her if she is Mexican. Yet, I love her nonetheless... for who she is!
Thirdly, from what I can remember from Biology... there are dominant and recessive genes. Within a pair of alleles (sp?)- (set of genes), one from each parent... whenever a dominant gene is present, it will always "dominate" over the recessive gene. The only way a recessive gene will "present" (physically manifest) itself is if the gene the child inherits from each parent is the recessive gene for that trait. (Are y'all following this? I swear it made sense in Biology Class!)
Anyhow... my personal opinion is that racism is purely about attitude. If we were all blind race wouldn't matter, we would accept each other based on our personalities and our hearts. Rock on hearts!
I apologize for dragging this out... after this thread I just had to get it off my chest! Thank you for listening!
Whatever man, there is a quote by Niels Bohr I was mocking. I guess I didn't think you would take it that way.
I've spent a lot of time with people that have experienced "worse" things than me. What is "worse" is totally subjective to a person's experience. Some of those people ultimately suicided. Others have come to live normal and happy lives. Like my ex that spent most of her childhood chained to her bed. One of my favourite things to do is listen. I'll sit and watch a presentation on oceanic research for two hours because I like to listen.
That stage where people think they know everything is also subjective. For me I think that was 15. Ask me about cars and I'll tell you to go elsewhere. I know very little about automobiles. Ask me about computer networking and I know just about everything. I know what I know and I know that I don't know what I don't know.
I didn't mean to trash your perspective of the original post, I was just making a joke about white men not getting enough play from black chicks. You criticized my statement and I tried to debate and diffuse the confrontation. Then you attacked my knowledge and intelligence. You also gloated about your own understanding. Is that what you call understanding your own mind? Acting irrationally, getting defensive? I would think a person with such a great understanding, superior to mine, would be able to control themselves better. I act irrationally sometimes as well, so I'd say we both have about the same understanding. Possibly in different areas, different knowledge and some of the same.
With computer networking you also have a lot of people networking. Part of that is being able to share knowledge. There isn't just one person that knows all. My first month at my job I figured out why all of our products were producing http 500 errors because of our AJAX implementation. No one else seemed to realize what the problem was. However, they are all more knowledgable than me. I actually never heard of AJAX before, I just pulled up a google and searched for it, then I discovered the cause. But I still don't claim to know much about Java besides the syntax. I don't know what struts and beans are, yet.
Psychology is something I was subjected to at a very young age. My mother always had at least one psychologist and she put me and my siblings through it most of our youth. Psychology played a role in destroying my life. I used to go to board rooms where about seven people would sit around and talk about me. I was asked questions and they analyzed everything. They would come to conclusions that would instantly impact me. These people were my psychologist, my counselor, my doctor, my school counselor, my parents and my probation officer when I started commiting crimes. Everything they tried to do to me was fundamentally flawed. It was all a quick fix. They assumed all of my problems could be fixed with simple measures. They tried putting me in the hospital for a month, forcing me to consume antihistemines, sending me to a correctional facility and community service. None of it addressed my real problems. I addressed my own problems, I cured myself from myself and those people still can't figure it out. They were licensed professionals and I was a kid. In the end it was pretty simple, but getting there took time and understanding. It took friends and not analysts.
Maybe all C needs to fix her "problem" is a good experience with a black man. The way to do that isn't to run out and screw a black dude. If you are saying she can just date them then that makes sense. But what if she is happy not dating them and finds happiness elsewhere? Is that a real psychological problem to be worried about? Wasn't the question, is it racist for her to choose not to date black men? When did it become a problem of pscyhology?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I was just making a joke about white men not getting enough play from black chicks.
You can call it that now. That's what I would call the babe in the woods routine. You want to disagree, but then make it seem playful so that you aren't held accountable when the conversation gets serious. It just takes up a lot of time to have to explain to you the obvious over and over again. What you're doing is just saying whatever comes to mind and hoping that the other person either doesn't respond or just takes your word for it. It's a real time waster and it gets old.
With computer networking you also have a lot of people networking. Part of that is being able to share knowledge. There isn't just one person that knows all.
If I had the feeling that you were honestly trying to have an in-depth discussion without just saying whatever comes to mind just for the sake of disagreeing, then I would afford you that much more respect.
I addressed my own problems, I cured myself from myself and those people still can't figure it out.
First off, you're trying to say that psychology is bogus because it played a role in destroying your life. Yet, earlier you used the thickness of psychology textbooks to prove how "complicated" the human mind is. And you also questioned my knowledge of the human mind by asking me if I've ever opened a psych textbook.
It's that inconsistency and lack of depth in your posts that leads me to believe that you're just looking to have the last word - that you're not interested in a real discussion. You just want to take the other person's last post and post the opposite. That is your pattern of communication.
Secondly, I really doubt that you cured yourself. Here's what I think happened.
After that, I was looking at some serious time in juvenile hall, or worse. I had already commited crimes I hadn't been caught for. Serious crimes that would have landed me in juvy. Somehow, I pulled out of it, my parents had split and my dad was living in Victoria, so I went to stay with him. My whole life changed at that point
You were looking at some serious time in juvi. I know what half-way houses are like. They're not fun, but they're not like juvi. You didn't want to serve time. Additionally, your dad got out of that environment so you could start fresh.
And that's all there was to it. You're trying to make it more than that, and that's what I mean by overanalyzing.
Maybe all C needs to fix her "problem" is a good experience with a black man. The way to do that isn't to run out and screw a black dude. If you are saying she can just date them then that makes sense. But what if she is happy not dating them and finds happiness elsewhere? Is that a real psychological problem to be worried about? Wasn't the question, is it racist for her to choose not to date black men? When did it become a problem of pscyhology?
I didn't say she had a real psychological problem to fix. I only gave her a reason why she was turned off by black men, and then I gave her a suggestion in case she wanted to give black men a chance.
Also, I didn't tell her to go out and screw a black man. I said if she's dating a white guy now, she should try working her to back to black. I didn't say go screw people.
Not to mention, I'm not the one who brought psychology into this. You did by asking me if I've ever read a psychology textbook. And to earn that question from you, all I said was that the mind is a simple thing to understand.
So, again, that's what I mean when I'm talking about how you have this problem where you just want to argue and say the opposite of the other person and so on and so forth. You are what's known as "argumentative". You just disagree for the sake of disagreeing without really thinking about what you're saying.
I think this is just bleeding over from that discussion of pedophelia. Obviously their is still tension between us. I don't really care who C dates, so I'm not going to debate that with you. This thread has been kind of hacked by our conversation.
I do want to address the issue of my particular life and your interpretation of it. This is the drawback of my indiscriminate use of experience. In order to use a relational perspective I have to describe particular events in my life. That allows analytical people to view it subjectively and decide whatever they want. It's the nature of psychology. That is the only flaw of psychology is not allowing for patient intuition. I knew what my problem was. I constantly told them "Just leave me the fuck alone and I'll be fine" and they didn't get it." I realized in the end that I was making it worse by not co-operating, but by co-operating I was allowing them to make assumptions about my actions and analyze me further. In the end I had to leave and I didn't know what to expect. I lived there my whole life and I was always under the microscope. Coming to that conclusion took a long time and it was hard.
Regarding Juvenile Hall. I was really, really close to going there for a while. I commited a serious crime and was actually in contact with the police during the crime. However, the police officer didn't make the connection. The next week it was in the newspaper and on crime stoppers. They never did figure it out and if they had, it would have changed my life. That was the last crime I ever commited. It was part of the motivation for leaving my hometown. I had already ran a muck there and in vancouver. The half-way house was a type of observation facility. It was a big complex that was fenceless but we were required to stay there. We had a curfew and psychoanalysts. Anyway going AWOL and trashing the neighbourhood also added to going to Juvi. Police dogs took us down in the end.
Let's just say that I know a lot more about my own life than you. I don't know anything about your life. Except that you fancy yourself some kind of psychologist. I appreciate what psychology has to offer. I just think it should be applied more tactfully. I had one friend, I call him a friend, but he was really my counselor. He and I really got a long. He was part of Klatuu the band that apparently did the song "Calling Occupants" before the Carpenters did it. We just hung out and shot pool. Sometimes I'd meet him at the community centre and set up tables for an event. We never really talked about anything, mostly small talk, but I consider him the most helpful. Because he was just a friend.
I know a lot, but I don't know it all. I express what I do know in a certain way that uses experience as an example. Here is something I do know. Text communication is limited in that you can't effectively interpret a person's tone and often intent. That's a task that requires some optimism in many cases. I'm taking the optimistic view that you simply want to debate psychology, though it seems in some ways that you'd rather attack me. So start a psychology thread or something or whatever you want to discuss. Again, I'm sorry I addressed you in a way that provoked this whole conversation. I didn't intend to. It was a joke about your analysis that deprived white men of black women. It was a bad joke I guess.
Let me explain the joke. The stereotype is that black men make better lovers because they have huge schlongs. I personally know that is not always true. But there is another joke that chinese have small members and big brains, whtie guys are in the middle. But I know that's not true either. It's just a stereotype. My joke was playing on that stereotype, that if she got turned back on to black men, white guys would be insufficient. The "white will be too white" part was a lead-in for the joke, I guess that's what threw you off. I'm not a very good comedian.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't know anything about your life. Except that you fancy yourself some kind of psychologist.
Nope, I do not. You're imagining that. I didn't bring psychology into this until you asked me if I've ever read a psychology textbook. Then you tried to justify your opinion by mentioning all of the textbooks that you've read.
Let me explain the joke.
If it was just a joke, you would've called it that after I disagreed with it. At any rate, you tried to support the opinion behind your joke with your own type of analysis. So, I'm not buying it. You're just covering your ass after getting caught with your pants down. Live and learn from it.
Also, there is nothing personal between you and me. There's only you not knowing what you're talking about then me correcting you. Correction:there's only you just spouting whatever comes to mind while I keep you on planet earth. If you see a "personal" conflict in that, then it's just your imagination.
Let's just say I know more about my life than you do.
Maybe so, but it seems there's a lot that you still don't know, that are obvious to just about anyone who might actually be reading your posts. You have a problem with being argumentative. That's something you might not know.
Nope, I do not. You're imagining that. I didn't bring psychology into this until you asked me if I've ever read a psychology textbook. Then you tried to justify your opinion by mentioning all of the textbooks that you've read.
If it was just a joke, you would've called it that after I disagreed with it. At any rate, you tried to support the opinion behind your joke with your own type of analysis. So, I'm not buying it. You're just covering your ass after getting caught with your pants down. Live and learn from it.
Also, there is nothing personal between you and me. There's only you not knowing what you're talking about then me correcting you. Correction:there's only you just spouting whatever comes to mind while I keep you on planet earth. If you see a "personal" conflict in that, then it's just your imagination.
Maybe so, but it seems there's a lot that you still don't know, that are obvious to just about anyone who might actually be reading your posts. You have a problem with being argumentative. That's something you might not know.
I don't normally get angry, but you are really starting to bug me pal. Why can't you just let it go? Other people are entitled to their opinions. Why do you have to get offensive?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't normally get angry, but you are really starting to bug me pal. Why can't you just let it go? Other people are entitled to their opinions. Why do you have to get offensive?
I don't particularly enjoy this back and forth stuff either. If you want me to respect your entitlement to your own opinion, then just think about what you're saying before you quote my posts and disagree with them. All you have to do is just put some thought into your opinions instead of wasting my time with your mindless nonsense and imaginary arguments. I normally don't give these kinds of instructions to people, but you are undoubtedly deserving of them. I think you maybe still have some problems upstairs that cause you to challenge everything a person says regardless of whether or not you really believe what you're saying. The result is you having to be corrected and corrected over and over again. It's like you just want someone to keep paying attention to you, so you just say whatever you have to say to capture that person's interest. It's just something to be aware of. If you were really that bothered by someone not respecting your opinion, you wouldn't go out of your way challenge theirs.
I don't particularly enjoy this back and forth stuff either. If you want me to respect your entitlement to your own opinion, then just think about what you're saying before you quote my posts and disagree with them. All you have to do is just put some thought into your opinions instead of wasting my time with your mindless nonsense and imaginary arguments. I normally don't give these kinds of instructions to people, but you are undoubtedly deserving of them. I think you maybe still have some problems upstairs that cause you to challenge everything a person says regardless of whether or not you really believe what you're saying. The result is you having to be corrected and corrected over and over again. It's like you just want someone to keep paying attention to you, so you just say whatever you have to say to capture that person's interest. It's just something to be aware of. If you were really that bothered by someone not respecting your opinion, you wouldn't go out of your way challenge theirs.
With 977 posts, you aren't new to this board Dave. People disagree all the time. I'm not going out of my way to challenge you. I'm just giving my opinion in response to you saying the mind is simple. I'm saying it's not. Then you said that it's simple in that it's a complicated heirarchy. Which essentially is agreeing with me. So what exactly is going on? It's certainly not what you've described. This can end any time, all you have to do is agree to agree and stop being offensive.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Then you said that it's simple in that it's a complicated heirarchy.
I did not say the heirarchy itself was complicated.
You see, the problem is not that we're not agreeing to disagree. The problem is that you need attention, and so we have the situation here with you just making stuff up or at least blatantly misinterpreting things for the sake of argument. If you just try to stay linear in your points of view, the world will become a different place for you. Just try it.
I did not say the heirarchy itself was complicated.
You see, the problem is not that we're not agreeing to disagree. The problem is that you need attention, and so we have the situation here with you just making stuff up or at least blatantly misinterpreting things for the sake of argument. If you just try to stay linear in your points of view, the world will become a different place for you. Just try it.
Explain the heirarchy then omniscient one.
I don't need attention, certainly not from you. If I needed attention I'd go to the bar or something. I deffinately don't want your attention. I'm trying to get rid of it or get you to talk like a decent person.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The most basic need is the physiological need. This pertains to our physical health. Eating, sleeping, drinking...etc. These all stem from the physiological need.
Then comes the needs involving personal safety, emotional support, a positive self image (confidence in one's own ability to achieve one's own goals), and then finally the need to feel challenged.
Being shit on is a direct violation of the first need. We all strive to maintain our health. Not only do our natural senses turn us off from going near shit, but it just isn't something we want personal contact with due its bacterial nature.
Sex, on the other hand, is part of the physiological needs. So, to make a direct comparison between sex and being shit on is to violate the fundamental understanding of a person's natural need.
I don't need attention, certainly not from you. If I needed attention I'd go to the bar or something. I deffinately don't want your attention. I'm trying to get rid of it or get you to talk like a decent person.
Actions speak louder than words. If you were so hung up over my one reference to the simplicity of the human mind, we would have dealt with it a long, long time ago. Instead you want to dilly dally. I wouldn't be surprised if you were bringing the need thing up just to once again try to keep the argument going because you do in fact need that attention. Like I said, if you didn't just need the attention, you would've focused on that subject much earlier.
The most basic need is the physiological need. This pertains to our physical health. Eating, sleeping, drinking...etc. These all stem from the physiological need.
Then comes the needs involving personal safety, emotional support, a positive self image (confidence in one's own ability to achieve one's own goals), and then finally the need to feel challenged.
Being shit on is a direct violation of the first need. We all strive to maintain our health. Not only do our natural senses turn us off from going near shit, but it just isn't something we want personal contact with due its bacterial nature.
Sex, on the other hand, is part of the physiological needs. So, to make a direct comparison between sex and being shit on is to violate the fundamental understanding of a person's natural need.
Being shit on is always associated with the physiological need to have sex. What you are describing is the needs of the body, not the mind. You never suggested that C's sexual preferences were part of physiology and frankly I don't think it has anything to do with the physiological need for sex. Psychobiology has shown some predisposition to sexual perversions. However I don't think racial preference is part of that. If it is then it's biological and I don't see that being changed short of medicinal treatment. Those are animal control mechanisms built-in to our brains. Not the mind, the mind is either an extension of the soul or a subjective product of the brain, depending on your beliefs. Your examples are more like thought triggers. They may be responsible for some thoughts that enter the mind, but not in their entirety.
If that's what you mean then I completely understand. That's originally what I knew. Even those basic impulses can be ignored by consciousness in place of something else.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Being shit on is always associated with the physiological need to have sex.
Only in the case of sexual perversions, which are an abnormality. That's what I mean when I say that you deliberately misinterpret the obvious just to keep the argument going.
What you are describing is the needs of the body, not the mind. You never suggested that C's sexual preferences were part of physiology and frankly I don't think it has anything to do with the physiological need for sex.
If not for the sex itself, then for love and relationship, which are part of the basic needs again. Additionally, her original post dealt with the subject matter of sex. She specifically mentioned her first sexual experience with a black man as relevant to her preference.
Psychobiology has shown some predisposition to sexual perversions. However I don't think racial preference is part of that. If it is then it's biological and I don't see that being changed short of medicinal treatment. Those are animal control mechanisms built-in to our brains. Not the mind, the mind is either an extension of the soul or a subjective product of the brain, depending on your beliefs. Your examples are more like thought triggers. They may be responsible for some thoughts that enter the mind, but not in their entirety.
Right, thought triggers don't represent the mind in its entirety. But, your analysis deviates from those thought triggers only in the sense of sexual perversions, which are totally irrelevant to this discussion.
And then you call sexual perversions biological...hilarious.
You see, that's what I'm talking about. You clearly ignore the obvious just to keep the argument going. You have to reminded again and again of what is relevant and what isn't.
I think maybe that you aren't just seeking attention. I think you really do have a problem with maintaining linear thought processes. I hope you get well.
Sorry to bump this back up again, but I agree with the poster who said this simple topic has had so many twists and turns; red heads, France and french speaking posts, arguements dealing with the psychology of human behaviour...incredible.
Back to the original point. Maybe there is a point to the fact that the first black guy I had physical contact with was not exactly pleasurable looking back. I have typically always found myself more attracted to white than black men. Even if I can see what the fuss is about a particular black man - I wouldn't be attracted to him physically. Whenever a black guy takes an interest in me, they tend to be the guys I wouldn't be in anyhow you know, way too old, or married or just not my type. That's not to say that all black guys are like that because they are not. If a white guy is attracted to me than it's my heart or something about my personality that they like as much as anything else. But there are no race distinctions between sleazy guys and decent guys, you find them everywhere! However, even when I meet a black guy, and I were to find him a decent person with a very good personality/ heart I still am not attracted to him. Some people might find that very offensive or strange. I guess it's not though.
Whenever a black guy takes an interest in me, they tend to be the guys I wouldn't be in anyhow you know, way too old, or married or just not my type.
If a white guy is attracted to me than it's my heart or something about my personality that they like as much as anything else.
In the rest of your post, you pay lip service to the universality of male qualities or lack thereof amongst all races. However, I think those two quotes above reflect your personal experiences, and therefore reflect how you really feel.
You feel that as though black men (or at least the ones you've met) do not appreciate in you what white men do. And, you know, I don't blame you for thinking that.
Hip-hop and rap, for instance, are some of the most sexist mainstream stuff out there these days. The whole referring to women as "bitches" on a mainstream level originated from the hip-hop culture, I believe. Or it at least originated from the 70's pimp culture, which still is synonymous with the black culture. I remember listening to Beyonce talk about how it's almost impossible for a female hip-hop artist to get a video or record without a male presence in there somewhere. I think she was referring to how she needed puff daddy to give her credibility.
At the same time, the media in general isn't very kind to blacks. I know there are lots and lots of people who will say I'm just another excuse-making whiner, but I do believe that the media has a tendency to portray blacks in a negative light. Maybe not so much these days with all of the PC stuff going on. But, I think it's safe to say that society has a long way to go before it really honestly believes that black and whites are the same.
So, for that reason, you might not be so willing to forgive black men as easily as you would white men. Well, it's a different culture anyway. Not all black men are Bill Cosby. But, not all white men are Alan Thicke. From what I understand, the black culture is one that places the male on a much more dominant position over women than the white culture does.
Which leads me to my next question: How did your parents get along?
Which leads me to my next question: How did your parents get along?
not good, but I won't go into that on a messageboard. he left 30 years ago and doesn't know what I look like. However he has other children and they have all dated black so his departure (from what I understood about it) had nothing to do with it. That was a good thing I think.
not good, but I won't go into that on a messageboard. he left 30 years ago and doesn't know what I look like. However he has other children and they have all dated black so his departure (from what I understood about it) had nothing to do with it. That was a good thing I think.
His other children have all dated black, but are those other children female? Also, was their first sexual experience with a black man a negative one and at such an early age? And was your father at least present for his other children?
Of course, it's not logical for me to say that you like white guys just because your black dad was a schmuck and because your first experience with a black guy was negative.
But, I think those two factors plus the media and the male chauvinistic black culture have kind of all led to your present preference.
So is it racist? I think so. All psychoanalytical theories aside, the fact remains that you consciously choose whites over other races. And any conscious effort to distinguish between color is racism. If you were to , say, consciously choose blacks over whites, that's still racism because you are still concsciously distinguishing between color.
On the same token, I think it might also be culturalism. I'm not going to deny that white males tend to treat their women better than black males on average. I guess that's the case. I don't know. You aren't making an overt effort to seek out nice black guys, but I think that has to do with the fact that the black men in your life already let you down. On the other hand, it isn't exactly customary for women to write off an entire race of men as a result of those circumstnaces. But, like I said, black men were already fighting an uphill battle in your eyes as a result of other factors such as the media and the male chauvinistic culture.
But, here's what I also think. I think the part of you that hasn't forgiven black men is also a part of you that possibly doesn't forgive the black part of yourself. Like I said, you are making a conscious distinguishment between color. And perhaps this conscious distinguishment between color applies to your own self-image whether or not you may or may not realize it. Perhaps there's a part of you that feels like you identify with whites more than you do blacks. In which case, there might be an inner conflict between your black and white self. And it might not be until you forgive the black part of yourself that you find inner peace between you and your self image.
Psychology is something I was subjected to at a very young age. My mother always had at least one psychologist and she put me and my siblings through it most of our youth. Psychology played a role in destroying my life. I used to go to board rooms where about seven people would sit around and talk about me. I was asked questions and they analyzed everything. They would come to conclusions that would instantly impact me. These people were my psychologist, my counselor, my doctor, my school counselor, my parents and my probation officer when I started commiting crimes. Everything they tried to do to me was fundamentally flawed. It was all a quick fix. They assumed all of my problems could be fixed with simple measures. They tried putting me in the hospital for a month, forcing me to consume antihistemines, sending me to a correctional facility and community service. None of it addressed my real problems. I addressed my own problems, I cured myself from myself and those people still can't figure it out. They were licensed professionals and I was a kid. In the end it was pretty simple, but getting there took time and understanding. It took friends and not analysts.
considering about 3 posts earlier you admitted that you had homicidal tendencies and deviant sexual desires, im pretty relieved that you were in therapy. sponger has a point, and i noticed this in the other thread. you dont make any "points" of fact in your arguments. you talk about what happened to you and act like whatever you experience is the norm of human behavior. if it happened to you, it must be the norm. id say you probably could still benefit from some counseling becos you seem desperate to divulge as many details about your personal life as you can, it comes off like you're looking for sympathy or a pat on the back for how much you've been through or how amazing it is you're still here. it seems like you're desperate for somebody to talk to about these things, and that's exactly what counseling is for.
To say I don't date people from my own ethnic background? I am a black woman who has never been on a date with a black man in my life; neither have I slept with a black man in 16 years, and I'm 32. I don't date a lot to be honest, but when I do, it's always white people. I have nothing bad to say about black men - there are good ones and bad ones out there just like with all men. Just like with all people for that matter! I don't see a problem with people like me, who have a tendancy to date outside their race. I just think you make a connect to a person according to their spirit or personality rather than their skin colour or cultural background. However, a LOT of black people - especially women - would find it very offensive to hear of a black person never dating their race, and that annoys me to be honest as I think it's none of their business and not an issue. I don't find black men attractive, and never have done. I don't know why as there are some who are gorgeous, and I would never rule out dating a black man in the future, but I DO prefer to date white men as I do find that I tend to feel more attraction towards them. I don't know if I'd call it a preference or just a tendancy but this is honestly how I feel and I'm just interested to know your thoughts about it.
i don't think it makes you racist at all, but, i must admit i think it is a little weird. Does it matter who you date? No, of course not. My only concern is that your aversion to Black men goes much deeper than a simple unattraction. i hope it isn't a combination of your one bad experience (which is one of many reasons people should not be having sex at 15 , but none of my business) and your buying into negative stereotypes about Black men i.e lazy, lacking ambition, unwilling to commit, etc. i hear you saying it has nothing to do with it, and i hope you're right. i can't help wondering though.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
considering about 3 posts earlier you admitted that you had homicidal tendencies and deviant sexual desires, im pretty relieved that you were in therapy. sponger has a point, and i noticed this in the other thread. you dont make any "points" of fact in your arguments. you talk about what happened to you and act like whatever you experience is the norm of human behavior. if it happened to you, it must be the norm. id say you probably could still benefit from some counseling becos you seem desperate to divulge as many details about your personal life as you can, it comes off like you're looking for sympathy or a pat on the back for how much you've been through or how amazing it is you're still here. it seems like you're desperate for somebody to talk to about these things, and that's exactly what counseling is for.
I share my personal experience because I'm not afraid of it. Because I am over it, and I am not ashamed of myself. There is a lot of value in experience that you don't get in a textbook. I actually don't have any issues, contrary to what you believe. I also know how to spell "because", but I don't rip into you about that. I am willing to guess you know how to spell it and just spell it wrong for your own amusement. I normally just ignore it. I'm kind of glad you shared your opinion of me, because now my opinion of you is degraded to an appropriate level. I don't know why people like you and sponger need to become hostile with people. Maybe the psyche majors can explain it. You don't actually have to get angry, anger is rarely a good thing and no one makes you angry but yourself. That's why anger management counseling is great.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't think anyone became hostile with you, ahnimus. We're just trying to help you see how you are. If you are interpreting that as hostility, then maybe you do have some issues. Perhaps when people become critical of you in any way, you interpret that as a deliberate attack on your personality that can only be motivated by personal reasons. I think you have what's known as a "mask of sanity".
A "mask of sanity" is a creation of people who are struggling to deal with their own issues. They wear this mask so that their own emotional imbalances don't become obvious. Once that mask of sanity is challenged by another person, the mask wearer usually gets upset.
And here was your reaction right after I suggested that you don't know yourself as well as you think that you do.
I don't normally get angry, but you are really starting to bug me pal. Why can't you just let it go? Other people are entitled to their opinions. Why do you have to get offensive?
That is the reaction of someone whose mask of sanity has developed a hole or crack. After all, in that quote, you're accusing me of not being to let things go after you continually quote my posts in disagreement and suggest that I don't understand what you're saying. It's the kind of defensive counter-accusations that are typical of someone who is having trouble maintaining his hold on the appearance of "sanity".
And, again, I'm not getting angry with you. I'm just trying to help you see what's going on with you. I admit that it's a little frustrating to have to deal with someone who twists the other person's words and deliberately makes inconsistent statements for the sake of being argumentative. But, I don't let that frustration cloud my understanding of how you are and why you do the things that you do.
I don't want this to become another thread with just two people going back and forth about a subject unrelated to the original topic, so I'll leave it up to you from this point on to just be aware of your own motivations and thoughts before you post.
Good, because your analysis is wrong. So just leave it up to me to analyze myself. If other people want to let you analyze them, then that is their prerogative. Whatever mask you decide to put on me in your mind is also your prerogative. Please, just keep it to yourself.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i don't think it makes you racist at all, but, i must admit i think it is a little weird. Does it matter who you date? No, of course not. My only concern is that your aversion to Black men goes much deeper than a simple unattraction. i hope it isn't a combination of your one bad experience (which is one of many reasons people should not be having sex at 15 , but none of my business) and your buying into negative stereotypes about Black men i.e lazy, lacking ambition, unwilling to commit, etc. i hear you saying it has nothing to do with it, and i hope you're right. i can't help wondering though.
I don't buy into negative stereotyping of black men at all. There are some black men that I have met who are intelligent, erudite, and very decent in character. Same as with anyone else, there are some that aren't as well.
Good, because your analysis is wrong. So just leave it up to me to analyze myself. If other people want to let you analyze them, then that is their prerogative. Whatever mask you decide to put on me in your mind is also your prerogative. Please, just keep it to yourself.
That's all well and good you saying don't analyse me, but the more you lay yourself bare, the more you leave it up to other people to do what they will with whatever you present them with. Some may judge you or analyse you, and as this is a democratic message board, they may well see fit to post a response or a reply to what you say, analytically or not. As long as they are not being disrespectful to you or flamming you on line, is it not their right to have an opinion too? Just a thought...
In an earlier post when you were describing the situation with your dad, you ended your post with "and that is a good thing I guess." What did you mean by that?
Comments
I have opened a psychology textbook. I've opened quite a few. I practically minored in it in college as I tried to satisfy as many GE requirements as possible with psych courses at the lower and upper division level. I sat in on countless group therapy sessions with permission from the therapists and the patients in order to satisfy extra-curricular extra credit.
But, I'm not trying to say that I'm some kind of psychotherapist. It just so happens that when I read your posts, I see that you lack a fundamental understanding of how the human mind typically works.
And I don't mean to insult you when I say that what you've been doing so far is copying and pasting studies and definitions that you almost completely lack the ability to interpret, wasting the time of those who have to read your nonsense as well as quite possibilty your own. And, of course, there's just no way that you'll ever accept that notion. After all, you have opened up your g/f's criminology textbook, thus making you an expert on how our penal system should work.
So, back to my observation. The brain is a very simple thing in that it functions in terms of a hierarchy of motivations. Those motivations branch off into a myriad of different interpretations, and thus you have the many, many variations of the human personality.
But, those motivations still follow a basic pattern of similarities. That is, it generally isn't normal for a person to enjoy being shit on. It's just not healthy and normal. And there you are trying to compare that to the different preferences people have in terms of music, color...etc. That just goes to show that this very simple fundamental difference in human preferences really is too complicated for you to understand. If you really are interested in truly learning about human nature, then just be quiet for awhile and open your ears for once.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Haha whatever man. I know how the mind works in a lot of ways. I've applied the concepts to my own life and I've been very successful. I've learned to appreciate most things in life, where I didn't appreciate them before. I've learned to admit when I am wrong and take a stand when I am right.
Anyway, I'm not going into all of it with you. Not only have I read the textbooks, I've studied the ongoing research of psychology, sociology, neuroscience and evolutionary biology. Maybe not to the extent as a professional. I've also listened to the teachings of Anthony Robbins, Steven Covey and so on. I've also applied these concepts to my own life with success and I have plenty of examples.
If you were so privledged, you could ask people that know me about my life and they will tell you I've travelled a long and horrific path through life and I've come a long way mentally. I've recovered from psychotic behaviour and homicidal tendancies. I've refined my sexual desires to the point where I find almost all women attractive and yet, I don't allow it to control me.
A wise man once said to me "The greatest thing to ever happen to me was losing my desire for sex." he said that happened around the age of 50 and the reason it was the greatest thing to happen is because sex is the prime motivator in peoples lives. It drives them to do things they normally wouldn't do, it makes people irrational and irresponsible. I won't say I am perfect in this regard, I still think about sex every 10 seconds, but I don't hit on every girl I see, I actually very rarely hit on girls.
Anyway, there is much point in discussing this with you, because you don't want me to be right. That is the main reason for this, it's not that I'm wrong. I'm not saying you are wrong either, I'm just saying the mind isn't that simplified unless the individual realizes the simplicity of it. Most people are victims of their thoughts and emotions, they say things like "but I love him" as if they are victims of love, when in reality love is subjective, it's almost worthless. It's a plague to our species, it's motivated almost entirely by sex and results in a brutal addiction.
The only thing sex has going for it besides feeling good is the health benefits. But people get caught up in it. A friend once said "I haven't had sex in a month, I'm going to go insane." at that point, I had been abstinant for 4 years and was perfectly sane. He was victimized by his own mind and I was in control of it.
I wish you were right. I wish you really did have something useful and insightful to say. I wish you could offer a different perspective on this situation that really could shed light on the issues. At which point, I would gladly acknowledge your wisdom and contribution.
But, so far, you haven't offered much in the way of an intelligent and informed perspective regarding the topic at hand. You've done a lot of "if you knew me" and "I've read this and that", but you've shown little to support those claims.
The whole "the world revolves around sex" theory is something pretty much everyone realizes own their own very early in life. It's obvious common sense, not the anecdotal wisdom of a 50yr old wise man. The fact that you sit there and try to say that this type of knowledge somehow validates your background on these matters only goes to show that you hold your knowledge in a higher regard than it truly deserves.
But, if you want to keep getting schooled, just keep responding. I think maybe you enjoy it.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
The first time I had sex. Was with a girl named Brandy. She cheated on me 18 times. Should I not be attracted to girls named Brandy? Or since she was white, should I not be attracted to girls that are white?
A bad experience alone is not enough. I was hit by a truck when I was 7, when I was 10 I was in a car accident with my mother and sister. Should I be afraid to drive? Maybe since they were both Fords I should be afraid of Ford vehicles?
I was in a McDonald's once with some so-called friends. Some gangstas came in and my friends moved to a different booth. The gangstas sat down with me, forced me to empty my pockets out, took my lighter and burned my hand quite severely. None of the other patrons, or the staff, or my friends did anything to stop them, or were willing to testify against them. Should I be afraid of having friends or eating at McDonald's?
I was at a fair once, called Sea Fair with rides, glow sticks and fireworks. It was in my hometown a small town with population 24k. We had one fair a year and pretty much everyone went. In the middle of the fair I was hunted down and beaten by what I approximate to be 50 guys. I tried to run away and kept asking carnies and patrons to help me, but no one would get involved, unless I paid them. Eventually I was caught. I was made to kneel down and apologize to this girl Julia, whom I mentioned before. Then I was beaten some more until the police eventually showed up. The police simply drove me home, about 15 kilometers out into the bush, where I was staying on an old farm with a woman. She wasn't home. Should I be afraid to go to fairs? Should I be afraid of that kind of situation happening again?
You see, I'm not afraid of any of those things. It's not enough for one little incident to drastically affect a person's mind, or at least not every time. Everyone is different and many people going through that would have gone insane and/or killed someone. I almost did go completely insane. I actually met with a dozen or so counselors, pscyhologists and psychoanalysts and none of them could help me from feeling worthless and destroyed. It was a series of events that caused me to feel that way. Not just one. The whole thing was pretty complicated.
Now personal experience aside, there are many cases of people that have serious mental problems that can't be simply explained. Charles Starkweather, Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Michael Jackson and so on. I know a guy that studied psychology and criminology. He says those people are possesed by the will of Satan. That's probably because he's also a diehard christian.
There is always what appears to be a simple solution, but it's never that simple. Take obesity, I'm sure anyone who is obese knows there is a simple solution, stop eating so much, or change your diet. That alone isn't enough to motivate them to do it, the problem is in their minds and it needs to be overcome, it's not simple, it's rather complicated. They probably also have to exercise a lot which is another factor.
With as far as I've come there is still one thing I admit to fault. I smoke, and quite a lot. I smoked 3 packs a day at one time. I just can't seem to quit. My grandfather died from it, my father and grandmother have both had multiple heart attacks from smoking. I am broke most of the time since cigarettes are so expensive. I can feel the smoking killing me. But it's not a simple thing to quit, it's actually quite complicated. See it's not just the nicotine I am addicted to, it's also the inability of my brain to produce satisfaction in the absence of nicotine. It's also the habit of always having a cigarette in my mouth and hands, having a smoke after eating, when I wake up, when I walk in or out of the door. Everything has become a trigger for smoking. I know I can beat it, but it's just not that simplified. Not everything is psychological either, hence smoking is an addiction and not a habit. There is a real chemical effect, if you've ever quit taking heroin or quit smoking you might know what I'm talking about. The theory isn't enough to truly understand it. It's not like quiting a nervous tick, it's like quiting a hardcore psychoactive drug like heroin.. when the brain has aquired a chemical dependancy on it.
There are chemicals produced in the brain called peptides that the body becomes addicted to. Emotional states are responsible for some of these chemicals. People become chemically addicted to emotional states. Like smoking or doing heroin. You can't just expect someone to give up the addiction of an emotional state by telling them their feelings are wrong.
Now, if what I've told you hasn't shocked you, you haven't fully understood it.
That's the problem. You think everything you say is some kind of unique and profound insight. But, it's really common knowledge. I've sat for hours in group therapy sessions listening to peoples' stories that make your life seem like an episode of Leave it to Beaver.
I'm not sure how old you are, but I think you're at that stage where people think they know everything there is to know, and that's that. In a couple of years you'll look back and realize how naive you used to be by thinking your situation was so shocking and unique. You'll realize that you were one of the lucky ones - that you didn't have it half as bad as many, many adolescents in our society.
You still for some reason think that men and women have the same views of sex. That in it of itself only means that you know next to nothing about the ins and outs of human sexuality. I'm not going to bother explaining it to you because you seem hell bent on proving how unique and special your insight is.
In describing obesity, you didn't even bother paying lip service to the concept of thyroid disorders or the tendency of parents to use food as a reward, thus causing people to subconsciously "reward" themselves with food later on in life. These two concepts are fundamental initial approaches to understanding obesity, yet they are still far beyond your level of understanding or awareness.
Your nicotine addiction analysis is still juvenile at best. Where you ever got the idea that anyone but yourself wasn't aware of those facts already is beyond me. Again, it's that belief that you have that everything you know is special and unique, and that no one else could possibly understand it.
Again, if you ever truly want to learn about the self, just listen more than you talk.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
First off, to the original poster: Your preferences in a "mate" are your preferences. It has nothing to do with your being racist- you are attracted to what you are attracted to. It is my understanding that racism is about hatred. You don't HATE black men, do you? I am a white female, about as white you can get. For whatever reason, I am particularly attracted to ethnic men- hispanic, asian, american indian... but there are "white men" out there who have turned my head as well. When it comes down to it... looks don't last, personality does.
Secondly, in this day and age, inter-racial relationships and births are so prevalent that you really can't tell who is what anymore. Eventually, if time allows, there will probably be one universal color of people as everyone of every race comes together in love & marriage (Just speculation). Depending on where you live, mixed race children can be more prevalent than mono-race (is that a word?) children. I have a very good friend who is Polish & Irish (?) and doesn't look ANYTHING like I would think either of those ethnicities would look like... people CONSTANTLY ask her if she is Mexican. Yet, I love her nonetheless... for who she is!
Thirdly, from what I can remember from Biology... there are dominant and recessive genes. Within a pair of alleles (sp?)- (set of genes), one from each parent... whenever a dominant gene is present, it will always "dominate" over the recessive gene. The only way a recessive gene will "present" (physically manifest) itself is if the gene the child inherits from each parent is the recessive gene for that trait. (Are y'all following this? I swear it made sense in Biology Class!)
Anyhow... my personal opinion is that racism is purely about attitude. If we were all blind race wouldn't matter, we would accept each other based on our personalities and our hearts. Rock on hearts!
I apologize for dragging this out... after this thread I just had to get it off my chest! Thank you for listening!
I've spent a lot of time with people that have experienced "worse" things than me. What is "worse" is totally subjective to a person's experience. Some of those people ultimately suicided. Others have come to live normal and happy lives. Like my ex that spent most of her childhood chained to her bed. One of my favourite things to do is listen. I'll sit and watch a presentation on oceanic research for two hours because I like to listen.
That stage where people think they know everything is also subjective. For me I think that was 15. Ask me about cars and I'll tell you to go elsewhere. I know very little about automobiles. Ask me about computer networking and I know just about everything. I know what I know and I know that I don't know what I don't know.
I didn't mean to trash your perspective of the original post, I was just making a joke about white men not getting enough play from black chicks. You criticized my statement and I tried to debate and diffuse the confrontation. Then you attacked my knowledge and intelligence. You also gloated about your own understanding. Is that what you call understanding your own mind? Acting irrationally, getting defensive? I would think a person with such a great understanding, superior to mine, would be able to control themselves better. I act irrationally sometimes as well, so I'd say we both have about the same understanding. Possibly in different areas, different knowledge and some of the same.
With computer networking you also have a lot of people networking. Part of that is being able to share knowledge. There isn't just one person that knows all. My first month at my job I figured out why all of our products were producing http 500 errors because of our AJAX implementation. No one else seemed to realize what the problem was. However, they are all more knowledgable than me. I actually never heard of AJAX before, I just pulled up a google and searched for it, then I discovered the cause. But I still don't claim to know much about Java besides the syntax. I don't know what struts and beans are, yet.
Psychology is something I was subjected to at a very young age. My mother always had at least one psychologist and she put me and my siblings through it most of our youth. Psychology played a role in destroying my life. I used to go to board rooms where about seven people would sit around and talk about me. I was asked questions and they analyzed everything. They would come to conclusions that would instantly impact me. These people were my psychologist, my counselor, my doctor, my school counselor, my parents and my probation officer when I started commiting crimes. Everything they tried to do to me was fundamentally flawed. It was all a quick fix. They assumed all of my problems could be fixed with simple measures. They tried putting me in the hospital for a month, forcing me to consume antihistemines, sending me to a correctional facility and community service. None of it addressed my real problems. I addressed my own problems, I cured myself from myself and those people still can't figure it out. They were licensed professionals and I was a kid. In the end it was pretty simple, but getting there took time and understanding. It took friends and not analysts.
Maybe all C needs to fix her "problem" is a good experience with a black man. The way to do that isn't to run out and screw a black dude. If you are saying she can just date them then that makes sense. But what if she is happy not dating them and finds happiness elsewhere? Is that a real psychological problem to be worried about? Wasn't the question, is it racist for her to choose not to date black men? When did it become a problem of pscyhology?
You can call it that now. That's what I would call the babe in the woods routine. You want to disagree, but then make it seem playful so that you aren't held accountable when the conversation gets serious. It just takes up a lot of time to have to explain to you the obvious over and over again. What you're doing is just saying whatever comes to mind and hoping that the other person either doesn't respond or just takes your word for it. It's a real time waster and it gets old.
If I had the feeling that you were honestly trying to have an in-depth discussion without just saying whatever comes to mind just for the sake of disagreeing, then I would afford you that much more respect.
First off, you're trying to say that psychology is bogus because it played a role in destroying your life. Yet, earlier you used the thickness of psychology textbooks to prove how "complicated" the human mind is. And you also questioned my knowledge of the human mind by asking me if I've ever opened a psych textbook.
It's that inconsistency and lack of depth in your posts that leads me to believe that you're just looking to have the last word - that you're not interested in a real discussion. You just want to take the other person's last post and post the opposite. That is your pattern of communication.
Secondly, I really doubt that you cured yourself. Here's what I think happened.
You were looking at some serious time in juvi. I know what half-way houses are like. They're not fun, but they're not like juvi. You didn't want to serve time. Additionally, your dad got out of that environment so you could start fresh.
And that's all there was to it. You're trying to make it more than that, and that's what I mean by overanalyzing.
I didn't say she had a real psychological problem to fix. I only gave her a reason why she was turned off by black men, and then I gave her a suggestion in case she wanted to give black men a chance.
Also, I didn't tell her to go out and screw a black man. I said if she's dating a white guy now, she should try working her to back to black. I didn't say go screw people.
Not to mention, I'm not the one who brought psychology into this. You did by asking me if I've ever read a psychology textbook. And to earn that question from you, all I said was that the mind is a simple thing to understand.
So, again, that's what I mean when I'm talking about how you have this problem where you just want to argue and say the opposite of the other person and so on and so forth. You are what's known as "argumentative". You just disagree for the sake of disagreeing without really thinking about what you're saying.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I think this is just bleeding over from that discussion of pedophelia. Obviously their is still tension between us. I don't really care who C dates, so I'm not going to debate that with you. This thread has been kind of hacked by our conversation.
I do want to address the issue of my particular life and your interpretation of it. This is the drawback of my indiscriminate use of experience. In order to use a relational perspective I have to describe particular events in my life. That allows analytical people to view it subjectively and decide whatever they want. It's the nature of psychology. That is the only flaw of psychology is not allowing for patient intuition. I knew what my problem was. I constantly told them "Just leave me the fuck alone and I'll be fine" and they didn't get it." I realized in the end that I was making it worse by not co-operating, but by co-operating I was allowing them to make assumptions about my actions and analyze me further. In the end I had to leave and I didn't know what to expect. I lived there my whole life and I was always under the microscope. Coming to that conclusion took a long time and it was hard.
Regarding Juvenile Hall. I was really, really close to going there for a while. I commited a serious crime and was actually in contact with the police during the crime. However, the police officer didn't make the connection. The next week it was in the newspaper and on crime stoppers. They never did figure it out and if they had, it would have changed my life. That was the last crime I ever commited. It was part of the motivation for leaving my hometown. I had already ran a muck there and in vancouver. The half-way house was a type of observation facility. It was a big complex that was fenceless but we were required to stay there. We had a curfew and psychoanalysts. Anyway going AWOL and trashing the neighbourhood also added to going to Juvi. Police dogs took us down in the end.
Let's just say that I know a lot more about my own life than you. I don't know anything about your life. Except that you fancy yourself some kind of psychologist. I appreciate what psychology has to offer. I just think it should be applied more tactfully. I had one friend, I call him a friend, but he was really my counselor. He and I really got a long. He was part of Klatuu the band that apparently did the song "Calling Occupants" before the Carpenters did it. We just hung out and shot pool. Sometimes I'd meet him at the community centre and set up tables for an event. We never really talked about anything, mostly small talk, but I consider him the most helpful. Because he was just a friend.
I know a lot, but I don't know it all. I express what I do know in a certain way that uses experience as an example. Here is something I do know. Text communication is limited in that you can't effectively interpret a person's tone and often intent. That's a task that requires some optimism in many cases. I'm taking the optimistic view that you simply want to debate psychology, though it seems in some ways that you'd rather attack me. So start a psychology thread or something or whatever you want to discuss. Again, I'm sorry I addressed you in a way that provoked this whole conversation. I didn't intend to. It was a joke about your analysis that deprived white men of black women. It was a bad joke I guess.
Let me explain the joke. The stereotype is that black men make better lovers because they have huge schlongs. I personally know that is not always true. But there is another joke that chinese have small members and big brains, whtie guys are in the middle. But I know that's not true either. It's just a stereotype. My joke was playing on that stereotype, that if she got turned back on to black men, white guys would be insufficient. The "white will be too white" part was a lead-in for the joke, I guess that's what threw you off. I'm not a very good comedian.
Nope, I do not. You're imagining that. I didn't bring psychology into this until you asked me if I've ever read a psychology textbook. Then you tried to justify your opinion by mentioning all of the textbooks that you've read.
If it was just a joke, you would've called it that after I disagreed with it. At any rate, you tried to support the opinion behind your joke with your own type of analysis. So, I'm not buying it. You're just covering your ass after getting caught with your pants down. Live and learn from it.
Also, there is nothing personal between you and me. There's only you not knowing what you're talking about then me correcting you. Correction:there's only you just spouting whatever comes to mind while I keep you on planet earth. If you see a "personal" conflict in that, then it's just your imagination.
Maybe so, but it seems there's a lot that you still don't know, that are obvious to just about anyone who might actually be reading your posts. You have a problem with being argumentative. That's something you might not know.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I don't normally get angry, but you are really starting to bug me pal. Why can't you just let it go? Other people are entitled to their opinions. Why do you have to get offensive?
I don't particularly enjoy this back and forth stuff either. If you want me to respect your entitlement to your own opinion, then just think about what you're saying before you quote my posts and disagree with them. All you have to do is just put some thought into your opinions instead of wasting my time with your mindless nonsense and imaginary arguments. I normally don't give these kinds of instructions to people, but you are undoubtedly deserving of them. I think you maybe still have some problems upstairs that cause you to challenge everything a person says regardless of whether or not you really believe what you're saying. The result is you having to be corrected and corrected over and over again. It's like you just want someone to keep paying attention to you, so you just say whatever you have to say to capture that person's interest. It's just something to be aware of. If you were really that bothered by someone not respecting your opinion, you wouldn't go out of your way challenge theirs.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
With 977 posts, you aren't new to this board Dave. People disagree all the time. I'm not going out of my way to challenge you. I'm just giving my opinion in response to you saying the mind is simple. I'm saying it's not. Then you said that it's simple in that it's a complicated heirarchy. Which essentially is agreeing with me. So what exactly is going on? It's certainly not what you've described. This can end any time, all you have to do is agree to agree and stop being offensive.
I did not say the heirarchy itself was complicated.
You see, the problem is not that we're not agreeing to disagree. The problem is that you need attention, and so we have the situation here with you just making stuff up or at least blatantly misinterpreting things for the sake of argument. If you just try to stay linear in your points of view, the world will become a different place for you. Just try it.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Explain the heirarchy then omniscient one.
I don't need attention, certainly not from you. If I needed attention I'd go to the bar or something. I deffinately don't want your attention. I'm trying to get rid of it or get you to talk like a decent person.
The most basic need is the physiological need. This pertains to our physical health. Eating, sleeping, drinking...etc. These all stem from the physiological need.
Then comes the needs involving personal safety, emotional support, a positive self image (confidence in one's own ability to achieve one's own goals), and then finally the need to feel challenged.
Being shit on is a direct violation of the first need. We all strive to maintain our health. Not only do our natural senses turn us off from going near shit, but it just isn't something we want personal contact with due its bacterial nature.
Sex, on the other hand, is part of the physiological needs. So, to make a direct comparison between sex and being shit on is to violate the fundamental understanding of a person's natural need.
Actions speak louder than words. If you were so hung up over my one reference to the simplicity of the human mind, we would have dealt with it a long, long time ago. Instead you want to dilly dally. I wouldn't be surprised if you were bringing the need thing up just to once again try to keep the argument going because you do in fact need that attention. Like I said, if you didn't just need the attention, you would've focused on that subject much earlier.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Being shit on is always associated with the physiological need to have sex. What you are describing is the needs of the body, not the mind. You never suggested that C's sexual preferences were part of physiology and frankly I don't think it has anything to do with the physiological need for sex. Psychobiology has shown some predisposition to sexual perversions. However I don't think racial preference is part of that. If it is then it's biological and I don't see that being changed short of medicinal treatment. Those are animal control mechanisms built-in to our brains. Not the mind, the mind is either an extension of the soul or a subjective product of the brain, depending on your beliefs. Your examples are more like thought triggers. They may be responsible for some thoughts that enter the mind, but not in their entirety.
If that's what you mean then I completely understand. That's originally what I knew. Even those basic impulses can be ignored by consciousness in place of something else.
Only in the case of sexual perversions, which are an abnormality. That's what I mean when I say that you deliberately misinterpret the obvious just to keep the argument going.
If not for the sex itself, then for love and relationship, which are part of the basic needs again. Additionally, her original post dealt with the subject matter of sex. She specifically mentioned her first sexual experience with a black man as relevant to her preference.
Right, thought triggers don't represent the mind in its entirety. But, your analysis deviates from those thought triggers only in the sense of sexual perversions, which are totally irrelevant to this discussion.
And then you call sexual perversions biological...hilarious.
You see, that's what I'm talking about. You clearly ignore the obvious just to keep the argument going. You have to reminded again and again of what is relevant and what isn't.
I think maybe that you aren't just seeking attention. I think you really do have a problem with maintaining linear thought processes. I hope you get well.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Back to the original point. Maybe there is a point to the fact that the first black guy I had physical contact with was not exactly pleasurable looking back. I have typically always found myself more attracted to white than black men. Even if I can see what the fuss is about a particular black man - I wouldn't be attracted to him physically. Whenever a black guy takes an interest in me, they tend to be the guys I wouldn't be in anyhow you know, way too old, or married or just not my type. That's not to say that all black guys are like that because they are not. If a white guy is attracted to me than it's my heart or something about my personality that they like as much as anything else. But there are no race distinctions between sleazy guys and decent guys, you find them everywhere! However, even when I meet a black guy, and I were to find him a decent person with a very good personality/ heart I still am not attracted to him. Some people might find that very offensive or strange. I guess it's not though.
In the rest of your post, you pay lip service to the universality of male qualities or lack thereof amongst all races. However, I think those two quotes above reflect your personal experiences, and therefore reflect how you really feel.
You feel that as though black men (or at least the ones you've met) do not appreciate in you what white men do. And, you know, I don't blame you for thinking that.
Hip-hop and rap, for instance, are some of the most sexist mainstream stuff out there these days. The whole referring to women as "bitches" on a mainstream level originated from the hip-hop culture, I believe. Or it at least originated from the 70's pimp culture, which still is synonymous with the black culture. I remember listening to Beyonce talk about how it's almost impossible for a female hip-hop artist to get a video or record without a male presence in there somewhere. I think she was referring to how she needed puff daddy to give her credibility.
At the same time, the media in general isn't very kind to blacks. I know there are lots and lots of people who will say I'm just another excuse-making whiner, but I do believe that the media has a tendency to portray blacks in a negative light. Maybe not so much these days with all of the PC stuff going on. But, I think it's safe to say that society has a long way to go before it really honestly believes that black and whites are the same.
So, for that reason, you might not be so willing to forgive black men as easily as you would white men. Well, it's a different culture anyway. Not all black men are Bill Cosby. But, not all white men are Alan Thicke. From what I understand, the black culture is one that places the male on a much more dominant position over women than the white culture does.
Which leads me to my next question: How did your parents get along?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
not good, but I won't go into that on a messageboard. he left 30 years ago and doesn't know what I look like. However he has other children and they have all dated black so his departure (from what I understood about it) had nothing to do with it. That was a good thing I think.
His other children have all dated black, but are those other children female? Also, was their first sexual experience with a black man a negative one and at such an early age? And was your father at least present for his other children?
Of course, it's not logical for me to say that you like white guys just because your black dad was a schmuck and because your first experience with a black guy was negative.
But, I think those two factors plus the media and the male chauvinistic black culture have kind of all led to your present preference.
So is it racist? I think so. All psychoanalytical theories aside, the fact remains that you consciously choose whites over other races. And any conscious effort to distinguish between color is racism. If you were to , say, consciously choose blacks over whites, that's still racism because you are still concsciously distinguishing between color.
On the same token, I think it might also be culturalism. I'm not going to deny that white males tend to treat their women better than black males on average. I guess that's the case. I don't know. You aren't making an overt effort to seek out nice black guys, but I think that has to do with the fact that the black men in your life already let you down. On the other hand, it isn't exactly customary for women to write off an entire race of men as a result of those circumstnaces. But, like I said, black men were already fighting an uphill battle in your eyes as a result of other factors such as the media and the male chauvinistic culture.
But, here's what I also think. I think the part of you that hasn't forgiven black men is also a part of you that possibly doesn't forgive the black part of yourself. Like I said, you are making a conscious distinguishment between color. And perhaps this conscious distinguishment between color applies to your own self-image whether or not you may or may not realize it. Perhaps there's a part of you that feels like you identify with whites more than you do blacks. In which case, there might be an inner conflict between your black and white self. And it might not be until you forgive the black part of yourself that you find inner peace between you and your self image.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
considering about 3 posts earlier you admitted that you had homicidal tendencies and deviant sexual desires, im pretty relieved that you were in therapy. sponger has a point, and i noticed this in the other thread. you dont make any "points" of fact in your arguments. you talk about what happened to you and act like whatever you experience is the norm of human behavior. if it happened to you, it must be the norm. id say you probably could still benefit from some counseling becos you seem desperate to divulge as many details about your personal life as you can, it comes off like you're looking for sympathy or a pat on the back for how much you've been through or how amazing it is you're still here. it seems like you're desperate for somebody to talk to about these things, and that's exactly what counseling is for.
i don't think it makes you racist at all, but, i must admit i think it is a little weird. Does it matter who you date? No, of course not. My only concern is that your aversion to Black men goes much deeper than a simple unattraction. i hope it isn't a combination of your one bad experience (which is one of many reasons people should not be having sex at 15
I share my personal experience because I'm not afraid of it. Because I am over it, and I am not ashamed of myself. There is a lot of value in experience that you don't get in a textbook. I actually don't have any issues, contrary to what you believe. I also know how to spell "because", but I don't rip into you about that. I am willing to guess you know how to spell it and just spell it wrong for your own amusement. I normally just ignore it. I'm kind of glad you shared your opinion of me, because now my opinion of you is degraded to an appropriate level. I don't know why people like you and sponger need to become hostile with people. Maybe the psyche majors can explain it. You don't actually have to get angry, anger is rarely a good thing and no one makes you angry but yourself. That's why anger management counseling is great.
A "mask of sanity" is a creation of people who are struggling to deal with their own issues. They wear this mask so that their own emotional imbalances don't become obvious. Once that mask of sanity is challenged by another person, the mask wearer usually gets upset.
And here was your reaction right after I suggested that you don't know yourself as well as you think that you do.
That is the reaction of someone whose mask of sanity has developed a hole or crack. After all, in that quote, you're accusing me of not being to let things go after you continually quote my posts in disagreement and suggest that I don't understand what you're saying. It's the kind of defensive counter-accusations that are typical of someone who is having trouble maintaining his hold on the appearance of "sanity".
And, again, I'm not getting angry with you. I'm just trying to help you see what's going on with you. I admit that it's a little frustrating to have to deal with someone who twists the other person's words and deliberately makes inconsistent statements for the sake of being argumentative. But, I don't let that frustration cloud my understanding of how you are and why you do the things that you do.
I don't want this to become another thread with just two people going back and forth about a subject unrelated to the original topic, so I'll leave it up to you from this point on to just be aware of your own motivations and thoughts before you post.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I don't buy into negative stereotyping of black men at all. There are some black men that I have met who are intelligent, erudite, and very decent in character. Same as with anyone else, there are some that aren't as well.
That's all well and good you saying don't analyse me, but the more you lay yourself bare, the more you leave it up to other people to do what they will with whatever you present them with. Some may judge you or analyse you, and as this is a democratic message board, they may well see fit to post a response or a reply to what you say, analytically or not. As long as they are not being disrespectful to you or flamming you on line, is it not their right to have an opinion too? Just a thought...
In an earlier post when you were describing the situation with your dad, you ended your post with "and that is a good thing I guess." What did you mean by that?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825