Fuck the statistics at this point. It's a pragmatic issue. Look up Susan Steinmetz and all the other sociological research that has gone into this. Actually read the shit I posted. The evidence is there. But regardless of that any generalization that society holds to be a truth will become a statistical reality. If society in part ignores something then it won't be reflect in stats. Which is exactly my point, you are expecting there to be women rape victims so that's all you will find. John Wayne Gacy raped and murdered 33 boys and young men alone. There is absolutely no defense for the explicit marriage of "rape" and "woman" as terms in society. There is nothing to gain from it but error. Patriarchy is not the problem, I've given evidence of that. It's not even true where I live. The only patriarchy that I know of is the deal with the last name. Women rule just about everything. Behind 99% of a man's actions is a woman. Believe it, I know not one relationship that has a dominant male. Dominant females almost entirely, one or two "traditional" relationships, but the women don't complain, they chose it and can leave any time. Anyway, I'm just disgusted. The degradation of men that is totally explicit. If it's Violence Against Women I wonder who the criminals are :rolleyes:. It could just as easily be STOP RAPE or whatever the real issue is and drop this feminist baggage that's dragging us down.
Uh, CaterineA I'm sorry for getting your thread off-track. I took Jeanie's advice and created a new one for debating this aspect, but it kinda continued here. :(
oh for fucksakes. ONLY WOMEN ever commit violence against MEN. I and all of the women that I've helped in a dometic violence shelter that were escaping sweet and loving men are just a bunch of Dominate Feminazis out to beat the shit out of any and all Men. are you fucking happy now? :rolleyes:
face it. you can't stand to be proven wrong so you will put the blame on women in order to make yourself feel better. it's just sad and oh so transparent.
with that i'm finished trying to get you to grasp any facts because clearly on this thread you incapable of any reason or logic
oh for fucksakes. ONLY WOMEN ever commit violence against MEN. I and all of the women that I've helped in a dometic violence shelter that were escaping sweet and loving men are just a bunch of Dominate Feminazis out to beat the shit out of any and all Men. are you fucking happy now? :rolleyes:
face it. you can't stand to be proven wrong so you will put the blame on women in order to make yourself feel better. it's just sad and oh so transparent.
with that i'm finished trying to get you to grasp any facts because clearly on this thread you incapable of any reason or logic
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying people commit violence against people and more often the one's they love. My problem is that feminism explicitly implies that the violence is caused solely or even primarily by men. That is a destructive perspective. And now you are accusing me of trying to do exactly what it is that you are doing.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Out of my last three supervisors two of them were women. They make a lot of money. The corporate lawyer for my company is a woman, the CEO of my previous employer was a woman. I don't know what country you live in. It sounds like the US though.
By the way this is:
A. Anecdotal evidence. I've never had a women boss and my Mom is really very poor, that must mean that women are rarely bosses and they are all poor. Great way to base opinions eh?
B. Portland, Oregon is indeed in the United States if you weren't aware or aren't observant enough to read people's location on their posts.
I didn't dodge your points. Does supporting the feminist agenda get you lots of pussy or what? You seem like a rational person, but here your just blindly supporting the agenda with straw man arguments. I pointed out that your argument was a straw man and you want to go back to it. I'm not into that, look at the bigger picture and use your brain.
How is it strawman arguments to quote and comment your own linked source, that you used to back your point?
The difference between Canada and Iran is only going to be culture (religion) not physiology. So any differences will be the result of held beliefs and that isn't something you are going to change. The other issue as I already raised is that any action against the Iranian government will likely cause more harm to the people you are trying to protect.
So? I havent claimed that there are physiological differences. Infact, I highlighted in my detailed post cultural reasons for the difference in violence between the sexes and countries. Didn't suggest any solution for Iran or anything like that.
Finally, the feminist agenda uses mythical statistics and stereotypes which are ultimately detrimental to our own societies to the extents I've posted and then some.
On firm empirical grounds here are we? You seem to have an agenda yourself, sir. In this case, you're the one using the (feminist, apparently) stats and I was throwing them back at you. Stereotyping should be avoided, however not to the extent that no generalizations can be made at all.
What you did was pluck out some stats where women were the primary victims and ignored the opposite stats. For example, women are more likely to cut or stab their husbands. This you completely ignored, you ignored the fact that men are less likely to report incidences of domestic violence. Instead you focused in on a few stats in favor of your agenda.
I highlighted the parts that you seemed to have missed altogether, and still seem to have done. Thus, I focused on the ones you ignored to moderate your presentation of the data. You are the one cherry-picking stats from a study, and ignoring the gist of it, and the stated main findings.
Your agenda is illogical, because your approach off the bat is to support feminism and the bullshit it advances. This can only bennefit you by making you more popular with the ladies.
Again, firm empirical grounds to nail me I see. The need for facts can apparently be ignored as long as you have an opinion. And I dont have an "agenda". At least not more than you seem to have at any rate.
You also ignored the over all stat that 8% of women and 7% of men are victims. Yes, women are more often reporting domestic violence, a very small amount more however. Hardly enough to warrant such a biased approach. So what is your true agenda? does all your skepticism and centrality go out the window when you could gain popularity by blindly supporting some irrational propaganda?
Let me tell you what is misleading about those numbers. The point is for that 8 vs 7% stat, every instance of violence counts as 1, no matter what the degree of severity. Meaning 1 slap counts just as much as 1 rape. Surely you sense that something about that isn't quite right? I proceeded going deeper into the material, like the study did, and then showed that women were more likely to get the severe violence (beating/choking/weapon/sexual assault) while also noting that men get hit and thrown at more. Furthermore the percentage of women answering "more than 10 times" was twice as high as for males (26 vs 13%). These are among the main findings of that study, and is presented in the first 5-6 tables.
My comments were purely in regards to the study, and my motivation was to moderate your unfair and misleading use of the stats to make a point the stats weren't making. I tend to want to correct improper use of stats, since that's what I'm working with and teaching every day.
What you are on about, I think, is that men and women have equally the potential for being violent. Which I have no problem with agreeing to. Women are violent too. The point is, that even though the objective potential may be equal, the practice isn't. Whether that is for cultural reasons, or whatever other reason does not take away from the established and documented difference. Things aren't that bad in Canada, but even there, women are much more likely to be beaten many times, and with more severity. So then imagine how it looks in countries where we know women are really discriminated against and treated like shit.
Now, the issue, which was UNIFEM's campaign highlighting violence against women in the world (not Canada, the world), is about promoting awareness about this. I honestly cant quite see how you can build up such animosity for a simple awareness campaign dealing with a real issue. Ideally, being a woman shouldn't matter one way or the other, and all violence is a bad thing, sure. However, things are not ideal in the world, and there are differences. Nowhere have I claimed that there are physiological differences between the sexes (apart from when I was just throwing out suggestions to show that there are a lot of possibilities).
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying people commit violence against people and more often the one's they love. My problem is that feminism explicitly implies that the violence is caused solely or even primarily by men. That is a destructive perspective. And now you are accusing me of trying to do exactly what it is that you are doing.
how about we say the majority of violence against women is done by men. does that suit your wounded male intellect ryan?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That said, for the militant feminist that ahnimus likes to associate feminism with, fuck 'em, man.
It isn't that great an issue. Or a force in society. It's just some emotionally wounded sorts looking for a fight.
not entirely sure that makes sense, seeing as most women around here loathe me and think im a misogynistic piece of shit.
I'm not sure that's entirely correct.
I can't speak for all the women around here, but I don't loathe you or think you are any more misongynistic than a lot of guys I know. Your overall view on women in society is certainly usually very well considered and equitable as far as I can see.
It's when you start talking about the personal that you seem to have a problem or even when you start interacting on a personal level. As far as I'm concerned it's your methods and the things you say, your communication style that I object to at times, certainly not you personally. And I'm fairly certain that is the case for a few other women around here. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention that. I'm sure you couldn't give a shit one way or the other.
Sex. Lots of men run to the defense of women for reasons of sex. I thought that was pretty obvious. Just look at Soulsinging and Dunkman.
my username has been copyrighted... you owe me $1335431358431.25 for misuse... pay by next friday or i'll glue your cock to a passing satellite.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
not entirely sure that makes sense, seeing as most women around here loathe me and think im a misogynistic piece of shit.
Do you know what a woman is? A woman is a REAL WORLD being that inhabit the same space as most normal people. The "women around here" are internet women and may not even be women at all...perhaps you should step out of doors and touch a live individual so that when you post here it is not quite as creepy and convoluted as it is now. Why, or how, would you believe that people on the internet have real feeling or "loathe me" and "think im a misogynistic piece of shit" if you have no evidence that they are in fact women that in fact give the slightest crumble of a piece of shit what you are or what you believe yourself to be. Get over yourself and get a real life. Nobody here gives a fuck about you and would even give a damn if you disappeared off the face of the earth. For all it matters, you might as well do so.
I can't speak for all the women around here, but I don't loathe you or think you are any more misongynistic than a lot of guys I know. Your overall view on women in society is certainly usually very well considered and equitable as far as I can see.
It's when you start talking about the personal that you seem to have a problem or even when you start interacting on a personal level. As far as I'm concerned it's your methods and the things you say, your communication style that I object to at times, certainly not you personally. And I'm fairly certain that is the case for a few other women around here. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention that. I'm sure you couldn't give a shit one way or the other.
Has anyone told you to shut up and stop posting recently..? If not I'll take this opportunity to do so. Quit thinking people care what you think, they don't. If you stopped posting on AMT, would anyone give a damn or would your existense just vanish from the earth? I am assuming it would vanish, although I wouldn't doubt the discusting desparation of people here to read your pathetic 2c daily.
Has anyone told you to shut up and stop posting recently..? If not I'll take this opportunity to do so. Quit thinking people care what you think, they don't. If you stopped posting on AMT, would anyone give a damn or would your existense just vanish from the earth? I am assuming it would vanish, although I wouldn't doubt the discusting desparation of people here to read your pathetic 2c daily.
Am I the only one to see the irony in this entire statement?
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Do you know what a woman is? A woman is a REAL WORLD being that inhabit the same space as most normal people. The "women around here" are internet women and may not even be women at all...perhaps you should step out of doors and touch a live individual so that when you post here it is not quite as creepy and convoluted as it is now. Why, or how, would you believe that people on the internet have real feeling or "loathe me" and "think im a misogynistic piece of shit" if you have no evidence that they are in fact women that in fact give the slightest crumble of a piece of shit what you are or what you believe yourself to be. Get over yourself and get a real life. Nobody here gives a fuck about you and would even give a damn if you disappeared off the face of the earth. For all it matters, you might as well do so.
you might do well to take heed of your own counsel.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you might do well to take heed of your own counsel.
I'm sure many would agree with your above statement.
Its amazing how many people grow testicles, or ovaries, behind a computer screen. Makes you realise whats wrong with the world when a thread about supporting the fight against violence against women turns into petty insults against one another.
Comments
oh for fucksakes. ONLY WOMEN ever commit violence against MEN. I and all of the women that I've helped in a dometic violence shelter that were escaping sweet and loving men are just a bunch of Dominate Feminazis out to beat the shit out of any and all Men. are you fucking happy now? :rolleyes:
face it. you can't stand to be proven wrong so you will put the blame on women in order to make yourself feel better. it's just sad and oh so transparent.
with that i'm finished trying to get you to grasp any facts because clearly on this thread you incapable of any reason or logic
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying people commit violence against people and more often the one's they love. My problem is that feminism explicitly implies that the violence is caused solely or even primarily by men. That is a destructive perspective. And now you are accusing me of trying to do exactly what it is that you are doing.
By the way this is:
A. Anecdotal evidence. I've never had a women boss and my Mom is really very poor, that must mean that women are rarely bosses and they are all poor. Great way to base opinions eh?
B. Portland, Oregon is indeed in the United States if you weren't aware or aren't observant enough to read people's location on their posts.
So? I havent claimed that there are physiological differences. Infact, I highlighted in my detailed post cultural reasons for the difference in violence between the sexes and countries. Didn't suggest any solution for Iran or anything like that.
On firm empirical grounds here are we? You seem to have an agenda yourself, sir. In this case, you're the one using the (feminist, apparently) stats and I was throwing them back at you. Stereotyping should be avoided, however not to the extent that no generalizations can be made at all.
I highlighted the parts that you seemed to have missed altogether, and still seem to have done. Thus, I focused on the ones you ignored to moderate your presentation of the data. You are the one cherry-picking stats from a study, and ignoring the gist of it, and the stated main findings.
Again, firm empirical grounds to nail me I see. The need for facts can apparently be ignored as long as you have an opinion. And I dont have an "agenda". At least not more than you seem to have at any rate.
Let me tell you what is misleading about those numbers. The point is for that 8 vs 7% stat, every instance of violence counts as 1, no matter what the degree of severity. Meaning 1 slap counts just as much as 1 rape. Surely you sense that something about that isn't quite right? I proceeded going deeper into the material, like the study did, and then showed that women were more likely to get the severe violence (beating/choking/weapon/sexual assault) while also noting that men get hit and thrown at more. Furthermore the percentage of women answering "more than 10 times" was twice as high as for males (26 vs 13%). These are among the main findings of that study, and is presented in the first 5-6 tables.
My comments were purely in regards to the study, and my motivation was to moderate your unfair and misleading use of the stats to make a point the stats weren't making. I tend to want to correct improper use of stats, since that's what I'm working with and teaching every day.
What you are on about, I think, is that men and women have equally the potential for being violent. Which I have no problem with agreeing to. Women are violent too. The point is, that even though the objective potential may be equal, the practice isn't. Whether that is for cultural reasons, or whatever other reason does not take away from the established and documented difference. Things aren't that bad in Canada, but even there, women are much more likely to be beaten many times, and with more severity. So then imagine how it looks in countries where we know women are really discriminated against and treated like shit.
Now, the issue, which was UNIFEM's campaign highlighting violence against women in the world (not Canada, the world), is about promoting awareness about this. I honestly cant quite see how you can build up such animosity for a simple awareness campaign dealing with a real issue. Ideally, being a woman shouldn't matter one way or the other, and all violence is a bad thing, sure. However, things are not ideal in the world, and there are differences. Nowhere have I claimed that there are physiological differences between the sexes (apart from when I was just throwing out suggestions to show that there are a lot of possibilities).
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
how about we say the majority of violence against women is done by men. does that suit your wounded male intellect ryan?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That said, for the militant feminist that ahnimus likes to associate feminism with, fuck 'em, man.
It isn't that great an issue. Or a force in society. It's just some emotionally wounded sorts looking for a fight.
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except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
not entirely sure that makes sense, seeing as most women around here loathe me and think im a misogynistic piece of shit.
Wow, your mom and sisters are mean.
You got to spend it all
huh? i dont have any sisters? what's that got to do with anything?
I'm not sure that's entirely correct.
I can't speak for all the women around here, but I don't loathe you or think you are any more misongynistic than a lot of guys I know. Your overall view on women in society is certainly usually very well considered and equitable as far as I can see.
It's when you start talking about the personal that you seem to have a problem or even when you start interacting on a personal level. As far as I'm concerned it's your methods and the things you say, your communication style that I object to at times, certainly not you personally. And I'm fairly certain that is the case for a few other women around here. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention that. I'm sure you couldn't give a shit one way or the other.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
my username has been copyrighted... you owe me $1335431358431.25 for misuse... pay by next friday or i'll glue your cock to a passing satellite.
Do you know what a woman is? A woman is a REAL WORLD being that inhabit the same space as most normal people. The "women around here" are internet women and may not even be women at all...perhaps you should step out of doors and touch a live individual so that when you post here it is not quite as creepy and convoluted as it is now. Why, or how, would you believe that people on the internet have real feeling or "loathe me" and "think im a misogynistic piece of shit" if you have no evidence that they are in fact women that in fact give the slightest crumble of a piece of shit what you are or what you believe yourself to be. Get over yourself and get a real life. Nobody here gives a fuck about you and would even give a damn if you disappeared off the face of the earth. For all it matters, you might as well do so.
You got to spend it all
Has anyone told you to shut up and stop posting recently..? If not I'll take this opportunity to do so. Quit thinking people care what you think, they don't. If you stopped posting on AMT, would anyone give a damn or would your existense just vanish from the earth? I am assuming it would vanish, although I wouldn't doubt the discusting desparation of people here to read your pathetic 2c daily.
You got to spend it all
Am I the only one to see the irony in this entire statement?
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
no, you're not.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you might do well to take heed of your own counsel.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm sure many would agree with your above statement.
Its amazing how many people grow testicles, or ovaries, behind a computer screen. Makes you realise whats wrong with the world when a thread about supporting the fight against violence against women turns into petty insults against one another.
http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c