Drop it dude. Enough of the personal attacks. Provide some evidence or logic or something.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
dude, i happen to know that in B.C. (and probably the rest of Canada) if there's evidence that the victim fought back she also gets arrested for DV, just as in the links I previously posted. and if she's arrested depite her being the victim and not the aggressor that would show up as a DV case.
the stats you posted above DO NOT show who was the intial aggressor in those cases and they DO NOT show conviction rates for DV
Right. They don't. It involves reports, and the fact that a small portion of abused men ever report it. If they don't report it, it won't lead to a conviction. But the fact of the matter is, when you take a jury of average people with average beliefs, which includes this nonsense about DV. You are invariably going to see more convictions against men than women.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yea, so, bottom line. Men and women are equally as aggressive. Women are more covertly aggressive and are more violent in 11 catagories, including knives and other weapons. Women are more likely to stab you in your sleep, whereas men are more likely to use fists in the heat of anger. Women are more likely to plan their attack with a deadly weapon.
Btw, the US doj statistics blow ass, since they seem to only track violence against women. I'm having a hard time finding neutral stats in the US.
I think you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. When did you find these statistics and are they out of date now? Statistics change all the time! You don't want to take them as gospel.
With you're high opinion and knowledge, I'm guessing you've travelled, so you should know that women are not treated equally, therefore have to suffer abuse without much legal help to back them up.
Listen, I'm not putting up with a whole lot of abuse from you today.
So I suggest you start speaking to me a bit more pleasantly.
Then cut out the rhetoric and actually debate like a mature adult. Or I mean, like someone who is capable of a debate. You know, with logical arguments and physical evidence. The statscan link I posted has all the details right down to the correlation coefficient, which is a hugely important value of any statistical study. All I saw from you was opinionated statements from bias individuals.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
So when he comes after me with the hammer it's not okay to push him away from me? I'm supposed to lie down in the foetal position and cover my head and hope for the best????????
NO, you kick the living shit out of him.
Call your biggest friends and have THEM kick the shit out of him.
I have been in a couple of situations (as I am sure many women have) where I have feared Greatly for my safety. I have kicked and scratched my way out of a situation, I have screamed my way out of one and I have had my friends beat the shit out of another.
Ahnimus, do you seriously think women only care about violence against women???? Children maybe, too? Compassion for all human beings maybe???
Just maybe???
I know you feel you have been dealt a shit hand but do NOT lump all women into your little pile.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
Just convictions? Why? What do you think the chances are that a woman is going to be convicted of beating her husband? The justice system is not just. As I mentioned before, a friend of mine was attacked by his wife, and even though she admitted to it and took responsibility, my friend was also convicted and he didn't do a damn thing. Why? because of this false belief that people like you keep spouting from your ignorant and ill-informed mouths.
if there was evidence and she pleads guilty than that's a conviction. if there's evidence that she was the aggressor the proscuters will go after a DV conviction on her
I'm ignorant and ill-informed huh? how much time have YOU spent volunteering at a DV shelter?
you just can't stand to be proven wrong, so you resort to calling us liars and hurling insults....
Then cut out the rhetoric and actually debate like a mature adult. Or I mean, like someone who is capable of a debate. You know, with logical arguments and physical evidence. The statscan link I posted has all the details right down to the correlation coefficient, which is a hugely important value of any statistical study. All I saw from you was opinionated statements from bias individuals.
I think you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. When did you find these statistics and are they out of date now? Statistics change all the time! You don't want to take them as gospel.
With you're high opinion and knowledge, I'm guessing you've travelled, so you should know that women are not treated equally, therefore have to suffer abuse without much legal help to back them up.
These statistics are from 2000, which is fairly recent considering stats like these only come out once or twice a decade.
I'm not taking them as gospel, but I'm also not taking received wisdom as anymore valuable to this issue of domestic violence. Instead I'm basing it on my experience researching it, every flippin' time it comes up on this board.
My primary areas of interest include human behavior, gender differences, psychology, criminology, morality and all that sort of thing. So when it comes to this topic I just happen to know something that isn't derived from received wisdom or my own personal bias. I'm not denying that men are violently aggressive, rather I'm pointing out that men and women are both violently aggressive and this whole issue of "violence against women" is deceiving with some potentially harmful side-effects.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
NO, you kick the living shit out of him.
Call your biggest friends and have THEM kick the shit out of him.
I have been in a couple of situations (as I am sure many women have) where I have feared Greatly for my safety. I have kicked and scratched my way out of a situation, I have screamed my way out of one and I have had my friends beat the shit out of another.
Ahnimus, do you seriously think women only care about violence against women???? Children maybe, too? Compassion for all human beings maybe???
Just maybe???
I know you feel you have been dealt a shit hand but do NOT lump all women into your little pile.
hmm yes, i agree trixie. you hit me, then i will hit you so you cant ever hit me again. and i will continue to do it until one of us is dead.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
NO, you kick the living shit out of him.
Call your biggest friends and have THEM kick the shit out of him.
I have been in a couple of situations (as I am sure many women have) where I have feared Greatly for my safety. I have kicked and scratched my way out of a situation, I have screamed my way out of one and I have had my friends beat the shit out of another.
Ahnimus, do you seriously think women only care about violence against women???? Children maybe, too? Compassion for all human beings maybe???
Just maybe???
I know you feel you have been dealt a shit hand but do NOT lump all women into your little pile.
Hey, My ex-girlfriend held a fork to my head and threatened to stab me with it. Other times she stood over me while I was sleeping with deadly weapons. If you want to use personal experiences as evidence, consider your's negated.
It's a very simple point I'm trying to make. There is violence against other people besides women and compartmentalizing and prioritizing this violence into races or genders only diminishes the public realization of all other forms of violence. To the point that people don't think other forms of violence exist in any meaningful degree.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Then cut out the rhetoric and actually debate like a mature adult. Or I mean, like someone who is capable of a debate. You know, with logical arguments and physical evidence. The statscan link I posted has all the details right down to the correlation coefficient, which is a hugely important value of any statistical study. All I saw from you was opinionated statements from bias individuals.
And all I've seen from you is an attempt to derail the original subject of the thread with a whole other agenda with statistics that we've seen before that aren't representative of the world at large, which I did point out to you last time.
Don't patronize me, DO not condescend to me and most of all don't be thinking that you are gaining any respect from me for the offensive way you are handling this.
You aren't doing so good on the capable debate score yourself so I wouldn't be throwing stones if I were you.
Do you actually have something to contribute with regard to violence against women or is it going to be more of your pseudo equality? I don't give me any of your bs about egalitarianism. If you truly believe in it then stop making me and others feel we're not worthy of discussing anything with you.
I see plenty of bias and personal opinion in your posts here, so the way I see it, you can continue on but it's not making me feel any more like supporting initiatives to stop violence against men. If you don't market it right it aint gonna sell.
hmm yes, i agree trixie. you hit me, then i will hit you so you cant ever hit me again. and i will continue to do it until one of us is dead.
I am NOT a violent person at all. But if some dude is taking his crap out on me and my body, you damn well better know I am going to get out of that situation if I can. I felt pretty shitty having my friends beat the crap out of that one guy, but I am sure I wasn't the first one and unfortunately, I probably wasn't the last.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
Hey, My ex-girlfriend held a fork to my head and threatened to stab me with it. Other times she stood over me while I was sleeping with deadly weapons. If you want to use personal experiences as evidence, consider your's negated.
It's a very simple point I'm trying to make. There is violence against other people besides women and compartmentalizing and prioritizing this violence into races or genders only diminishes the public realization of all other forms of violence. To the point that people don't think other forms of violence exist in any meaningful degree.
where has anyone here (or anywhere really) said that other forms of violence don't exist in any meaningful way? of course they do and no one is denying that
Hey, My ex-girlfriend held a fork to my head and threatened to stab me with it. Other times she stood over me while I was sleeping with deadly weapons. If you want to use personal experiences as evidence, consider your's negated.
It's a very simple point I'm trying to make. There is violence against other people besides women and compartmentalizing and prioritizing this violence into races or genders only diminishes the public realization of all other forms of violence. To the point that people don't think other forms of violence exist in any meaningful degree.
No, mine is NOT negated. :mad:
And don't assume it ever will be.
This was a simple plea by a member of the board to please sign a petition, not a public platform for you to stand on and remind us all that you were a victim.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
It's a very simple point I'm trying to make. There is violence against other people besides women and compartmentalizing and prioritizing this violence into races or genders only diminishes the public realization of all other forms of violence. To the point that people don't think other forms of violence exist in any meaningful degree.
Whats your evidence that it diminishes public realization? I need to see a peer reviewed study.
I am NOT a violent person at all. But if some dude is taking his crap out on me and my body, you damn well better know I am going to get out of that situation if I can. I felt pretty shitty having my friends beat the crap out of that one guy, but I am sure I wasn't the first one and unfortunately, I probably wasn't the last.
i have the capacity to be violent when the situation calls for it. and when it's the only method the other person understands, then i am more than happy to oblige.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's kind of ironic that this comes up after watching an Agenda debate on Black Women. Apparently, if you are one black woman, you never encounter prejudice in Canada, but if you are another one, you can't function in society because of all the prejudice. It seems like the only differential is the person who is perceiving the society and their role in it.
It's especially easy for a black woman to fall into this perceptual trap. Not only are they women and therefor oppressed by the male dominant society they perceive, but they are also oppressed by the white dominant society they perceive. The only evidence that seems to cast doubt onto their situations being entirely caused by external circumstances is the fact that other Black Women don't perceive society the same way.
Is it really a matter of being black, or being a woman, or is it an issue of perception. Do these people succumb to the society they perceive through received wisdom and therefor help in the creation of the society?
Take Iran as an example. In Iran women are supposed to cover up with their burkas or whatever. A lot of the time they don't, and they get plastic surgery and they ride motorcycles. The fundamentalist government doesn't like it, but as long as women continue to do it, the government can't do much about it. On the other hand, if all the women are taught young that they are to be oppressed, they may willingly obey the rules without ever contesting them or having them explicitly imposed on them by law. In that sense, they are contributing just as much to their own oppression as the so-called oppressors.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
hmm yes, i agree trixie. you hit me, then i will hit you so you cant ever hit me again. and i will continue to do it until one of us is dead.
which sounds all well and good. until you find yourself in the situation and realize that you have to live to be able to get out and take care of your kids. I coulda stuck around and fought back until my death but then what would have happened to my kids?
i have the capacity to be violent when the situation calls for it. and when it's the only method the other person understands, then i am more than happy to oblige.
I think it is the adrenaline rush..like when you hear about a parent gaining superhuman strength when one of their children is in harm's way.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
which sounds all well and good. until you find yourself in the situation and realize that you have to live to be able to get out and take care of your kids. I coulda stuck around and fought back until my death but then what would have happened to my kids?
I think we are, at least I am, talking about the heat of the moment...when it is happening. Not sticking around. If I could have gotten out without violence, I would have, believe me.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
No, mine is NOT negated. :mad:
And don't assume it ever will be.
This was a simple plea by a member of the board to please sign a petition, not a public platform for you to stand on and remind us all that you were a victim.
*clap clap clap with joy!*
Although I don't understand what you mean by kicking the shit out of the guy.
Mainly because the women would probably be arrested and raped for this. (Not mentioning that it's not nice, which you already know).
where has anyone here (or anywhere really) said that other forms of violence don't exist in any meaningful way? of course they do and no one is denying that
Really? I missed the hundred and fifty threads about violence against men to balance the threads like this.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
NO, you kick the living shit out of him.
Call your biggest friends and have THEM kick the shit out of him.
I have been in a couple of situations (as I am sure many women have) where I have feared Greatly for my safety. I have kicked and scratched my way out of a situation, I have screamed my way out of one and I have had my friends beat the shit out of another.
Ahnimus, do you seriously think women only care about violence against women???? Children maybe, too? Compassion for all human beings maybe???
Just maybe???
I know you feel you have been dealt a shit hand but do NOT lump all women into your little pile.
Yeah, ok trix well that's great if you can or even if you'd want to.
I have no desire to drag a whole bunch of people into an eye for an eye type situation just for starters and if I could have kicked the living shit out of him I'm not sure I'd have wanted to anyway. The way I see it, he's the one with the violent tendancies and behaviours. It's bad enough he's inflicting that on me, be damned he's going to turn me into him by playing by his rules. I think we all handle these things differently and that's fine. We all have to make the best decisions we can in the circumstances we find ourselves in. My first concern will always be to live, to survive, to minimize the damage if I can and to get away as soon as I possibly can. I don't know if I'd still hold that view if I'd been systematically abused for years and years and years. Possibly a whole other reaction would be my response then. I think the important thing to remember here is that I live in a country where even though this does still happen, I do have some choices. I'd hate to live somewhere that purely by virtue of being born with a c**t I was someone else's property and at the mercy of their will.
Right, because the only way someone acknowledges something is if they post a thread about it. Maybe you should stop inferring and, you know, go straight to the facts.
which sounds all well and good. until you find yourself in the situation and realize that you have to live to be able to get out and take care of your kids. I coulda stuck around and fought back until my death but then what would have happened to my kids?
oh i understand that prism and the welfare and safety of my children would always be my first priority. but if someone continually confronts and attacks me and the law does nothing, then the only choice i have is to rid them from my life. i'm not gandhi so if someone fucks with me then i will fuck with them.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
oh i understand that prism and the welfare and safety of my children would always be my first priority. but if someone continually confronts and attacks me and the law does nothing, then the only choice i have is to rid them from my life. i'm not gandhi so if someone fucks with me then i will fuck with them.
I told my ex-girlfriend that if she ever talked down to me, yelled at me or acted violently it would instantly be over.
She talked down to her mother a lot and the sound of them talking was like nails on a chalkboard. That was one of the main reasons I broke up with her. I won't tolerate violence or emotional abuse, not a split-second of it, I'm out, end of story.
That's all it takes. Why stick around until they have a knife to your throat. It's just as much my responsibility to get out early.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I told my ex-girlfriend that if she ever talked down to me, yelled at me or acted violently it would instantly be over.
She talked down to her mother a lot and the sound of them talking was like nails on a chalkboard. That was one of the main reasons I broke up with her. I won't tolerate violence or emotional abuse, not a split-second of it, I'm out, end of story.
That's all it takes. Why stick around until they have a knife to your throat. It's just as much my responsibility to get out early.
what world do you live in ahnimus? people are free to come and go as they please. just becasue i get out of a relationship with someone that doesnt mean they can't seek me out and continue to do harm to me.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
Drop it dude. Enough of the personal attacks. Provide some evidence or logic or something.
Listen, I'm not putting up with a whole lot of abuse from you today.
So I suggest you start speaking to me a bit more pleasantly.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Right. They don't. It involves reports, and the fact that a small portion of abused men ever report it. If they don't report it, it won't lead to a conviction. But the fact of the matter is, when you take a jury of average people with average beliefs, which includes this nonsense about DV. You are invariably going to see more convictions against men than women.
I think you're just being argumentative for the sake of it. When did you find these statistics and are they out of date now? Statistics change all the time! You don't want to take them as gospel.
With you're high opinion and knowledge, I'm guessing you've travelled, so you should know that women are not treated equally, therefore have to suffer abuse without much legal help to back them up.
Then cut out the rhetoric and actually debate like a mature adult. Or I mean, like someone who is capable of a debate. You know, with logical arguments and physical evidence. The statscan link I posted has all the details right down to the correlation coefficient, which is a hugely important value of any statistical study. All I saw from you was opinionated statements from bias individuals.
Call your biggest friends and have THEM kick the shit out of him.
I have been in a couple of situations (as I am sure many women have) where I have feared Greatly for my safety. I have kicked and scratched my way out of a situation, I have screamed my way out of one and I have had my friends beat the shit out of another.
Ahnimus, do you seriously think women only care about violence against women???? Children maybe, too? Compassion for all human beings maybe???
Just maybe???
I know you feel you have been dealt a shit hand but do NOT lump all women into your little pile.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
if there was evidence and she pleads guilty than that's a conviction. if there's evidence that she was the aggressor the proscuters will go after a DV conviction on her
I'm ignorant and ill-informed huh? how much time have YOU spent volunteering at a DV shelter?
you just can't stand to be proven wrong, so you resort to calling us liars and hurling insults....
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
uh-huh
These statistics are from 2000, which is fairly recent considering stats like these only come out once or twice a decade.
I'm not taking them as gospel, but I'm also not taking received wisdom as anymore valuable to this issue of domestic violence. Instead I'm basing it on my experience researching it, every flippin' time it comes up on this board.
My primary areas of interest include human behavior, gender differences, psychology, criminology, morality and all that sort of thing. So when it comes to this topic I just happen to know something that isn't derived from received wisdom or my own personal bias. I'm not denying that men are violently aggressive, rather I'm pointing out that men and women are both violently aggressive and this whole issue of "violence against women" is deceiving with some potentially harmful side-effects.
hmm yes, i agree trixie. you hit me, then i will hit you so you cant ever hit me again. and i will continue to do it until one of us is dead.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Hey, My ex-girlfriend held a fork to my head and threatened to stab me with it. Other times she stood over me while I was sleeping with deadly weapons. If you want to use personal experiences as evidence, consider your's negated.
It's a very simple point I'm trying to make. There is violence against other people besides women and compartmentalizing and prioritizing this violence into races or genders only diminishes the public realization of all other forms of violence. To the point that people don't think other forms of violence exist in any meaningful degree.
And all I've seen from you is an attempt to derail the original subject of the thread with a whole other agenda with statistics that we've seen before that aren't representative of the world at large, which I did point out to you last time.
Don't patronize me, DO not condescend to me and most of all don't be thinking that you are gaining any respect from me for the offensive way you are handling this.
You aren't doing so good on the capable debate score yourself so I wouldn't be throwing stones if I were you.
Do you actually have something to contribute with regard to violence against women or is it going to be more of your pseudo equality? I don't give me any of your bs about egalitarianism. If you truly believe in it then stop making me and others feel we're not worthy of discussing anything with you.
I see plenty of bias and personal opinion in your posts here, so the way I see it, you can continue on but it's not making me feel any more like supporting initiatives to stop violence against men. If you don't market it right it aint gonna sell.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
where has anyone here (or anywhere really) said that other forms of violence don't exist in any meaningful way? of course they do and no one is denying that
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
And don't assume it ever will be.
This was a simple plea by a member of the board to please sign a petition, not a public platform for you to stand on and remind us all that you were a victim.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
Whats your evidence that it diminishes public realization? I need to see a peer reviewed study.
i have the capacity to be violent when the situation calls for it. and when it's the only method the other person understands, then i am more than happy to oblige.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's especially easy for a black woman to fall into this perceptual trap. Not only are they women and therefor oppressed by the male dominant society they perceive, but they are also oppressed by the white dominant society they perceive. The only evidence that seems to cast doubt onto their situations being entirely caused by external circumstances is the fact that other Black Women don't perceive society the same way.
Is it really a matter of being black, or being a woman, or is it an issue of perception. Do these people succumb to the society they perceive through received wisdom and therefor help in the creation of the society?
Take Iran as an example. In Iran women are supposed to cover up with their burkas or whatever. A lot of the time they don't, and they get plastic surgery and they ride motorcycles. The fundamentalist government doesn't like it, but as long as women continue to do it, the government can't do much about it. On the other hand, if all the women are taught young that they are to be oppressed, they may willingly obey the rules without ever contesting them or having them explicitly imposed on them by law. In that sense, they are contributing just as much to their own oppression as the so-called oppressors.
which sounds all well and good. until you find yourself in the situation and realize that you have to live to be able to get out and take care of your kids. I coulda stuck around and fought back until my death but then what would have happened to my kids?
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
*clap clap clap with joy!*
Although I don't understand what you mean by kicking the shit out of the guy.
Mainly because the women would probably be arrested and raped for this. (Not mentioning that it's not nice, which you already know).
Really? I missed the hundred and fifty threads about violence against men to balance the threads like this.
Yeah, ok trix well that's great if you can or even if you'd want to.
I have no desire to drag a whole bunch of people into an eye for an eye type situation just for starters and if I could have kicked the living shit out of him I'm not sure I'd have wanted to anyway. The way I see it, he's the one with the violent tendancies and behaviours. It's bad enough he's inflicting that on me, be damned he's going to turn me into him by playing by his rules. I think we all handle these things differently and that's fine. We all have to make the best decisions we can in the circumstances we find ourselves in. My first concern will always be to live, to survive, to minimize the damage if I can and to get away as soon as I possibly can. I don't know if I'd still hold that view if I'd been systematically abused for years and years and years. Possibly a whole other reaction would be my response then. I think the important thing to remember here is that I live in a country where even though this does still happen, I do have some choices. I'd hate to live somewhere that purely by virtue of being born with a c**t I was someone else's property and at the mercy of their will.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
oh i understand that prism and the welfare and safety of my children would always be my first priority. but if someone continually confronts and attacks me and the law does nothing, then the only choice i have is to rid them from my life. i'm not gandhi so if someone fucks with me then i will fuck with them.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I told my ex-girlfriend that if she ever talked down to me, yelled at me or acted violently it would instantly be over.
She talked down to her mother a lot and the sound of them talking was like nails on a chalkboard. That was one of the main reasons I broke up with her. I won't tolerate violence or emotional abuse, not a split-second of it, I'm out, end of story.
That's all it takes. Why stick around until they have a knife to your throat. It's just as much my responsibility to get out early.
yeah. i also think its that primitive survival instinct/law of the jungle thingy we all have.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
what world do you live in ahnimus? people are free to come and go as they please. just becasue i get out of a relationship with someone that doesnt mean they can't seek me out and continue to do harm to me.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say