Earl Silverman has created the Men's Line Support group in Calgary -- only the second shelter for abused men in Canada. There are currently 508 women's shelters across Canada.
Well if that isn't totally disproportionate I don't know what is.
Even if twice as many women are abused as men, there are 254 times as many shelters available for them. The men's abuse shelters are independently funded, not government funded.
but why are you using Canada's stats? ... this initiative is clearly focused on other parts of the world where the gap between opportunity and life are far greater ...
i haven't read the whole thread - but i don't see how a petition or awareness campaign like this can be bad?
a total police escort to jail? the police aren't going to escort a DV victim any place else. plus if the police arrest her she sits in jail until it goes before a judge and charges are dropped or continued. and while that's all going on any kids in the home get a total escort into children's protective custody.
so yeah instead of deciding who's the initial primary aggressor and arresting that person lets make DV even more tramatic for all the parties involved including any kids.
Let's see: she has a black eye, has numerous bruises and abrasions all over, and perhaps a couple of cracked ribs. he has a red mark on his skin from where she tried to push him away and the back of his hand is kinda swollen and red from throwing punches. yeah lets just go ahead and throw both of these violent pieces of shit in jail. because it's easier on the cops that way
i can easily see a scenario where a girl tries stabbing a guy and he ends up with nothing but she is badly beaten. the fact is, DV is always a crime in progress with 2 parties who are both impassioned and screaming and fighting and pointing fingers. it's impossible to sort it out while their emotions are both still hot on the scene.
the scene you describe sounds more like flat out battery. they could book him on battery instead of DV if it is clearly a one-sided beating.
but why are you using Canada's stats? ... this initiative is clearly focused on other parts of the world where the gap between opportunity and life are far greater ...
i haven't read the whole thread - but i don't see how a petition or awareness campaign like this can be bad?
It's the stereotypical approach. Stereotypes hurt us. Such that there is disproportionate support for different people. If you ask me, men in these countries are equally the victims of destiny, they are the victims of ideology.
You can find women that agree with the ideology too. When they immigrate to Canada, many muslim women continue to cover themselves up. Ann Coulter thinks Mysoginy is great! Go figure? The ideology is the problem. But feminism is it's own form of dogma. It's not a solution to the problem, it's just a diversion, a way to redirect the problem.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It's the stereotypical approach. Stereotypes hurt us. Such that there is disproportionate support for different people. If you ask me, men in these countries are equally the victims of destiny, they are the victims of ideology.
You can find women that agree with the ideology too. When they immigrate to Canada, many muslim women continue to cover themselves up. Ann Coulter thinks Mysoginy is great! Go figure? The ideology is the problem. But feminism is it's own form of dogma. It's not a solution to the problem, it's just a diversion, a way to redirect the problem.
that's an interesting point of view ... i can't say that my experiences traveling to various countries supports that ... is there any substantive literature on that?
that's an interesting point of view ... i can't say that my experiences traveling to various countries supports that ... is there any substantive literature on that?
I'm not sure which point you are asking about. But about the redirection of problems, there is plenty. Take this as an example
1. About half of the married men who have contacted the Equal Justice Foundation for assistance report that they were charged with domestic violence or abuse after they found their wife was having an affair. Filing such charges gives her both vengeance against her husband (how dare he spy on her) and the house, the car, the kids, the bank account, credit cards, and anything else she wants to take.
2. With a sample size of well over 300,000 DNA paternity tests per year it is evident that some 30%, or roughly one in three, of these tests show the alleged father could not possibly have fathered the child.
You can be certain any children you have will be used as weapons against you in the divorce and DV case. Thus, when charged with DV or abuse and you have children it is essential to have DNA paternity testing done to verify, or deny you are the biological father. In today's world it would be wise to have the DNA paternity test done immediately after her child is born. However, if she has been having an affair she will likely do everything in her considerable power, as given to her by the false DV charges, to keep you from the kids and prevent DNA testing from being done.
3. Colorado law now prohibits a man from challenging child support once orders are entered or the divorce is final. Thus, a domestic violence conviction may often lead to a man being enslaved to pay child support for children he is not the biological father of, and for children he does not, or cannot have contact with.
many more examples at dvmen.org
As for the female voice in Islam. CCMW looks to be a good source. This is from one of their publications called "Voices of Muslim Women"
The hijab is directly linked to the previous section on religious freedoms. The hijab has always been a contentious issue, a separate heading was needed to effectively address the issue. Although it is positive to see discourse on a religious practice, the issue of hijab continues to dominate religious debates within Muslim and non-Muslim communities. October 5th 2001, Oprah Winfrey dedicated an entire show to, what she called 'Islam 101'. This was promising but as one young Muslim women wrote, "after a quick discussion of what Islam was about, the show veered off to the discussion of women in Islam, and particularly the dress code. The 'after show' segment was entirely about the hijab. The undue emphasis on hijab needs to be put to rest so that more pressing matters like "why our young men are turning themselves into bombs, why we do not have democracy in Muslim countries, whether American foreign policy is based on principles of equality and liberty for all.
Within this context, it is imperative to look at the women who wear the hijab and how they were effected by 9/11. Some North American Muslim organizations, like the Islamic Services Association of the United States and Canada and imams of local mosques advised women to take off their hijab. Some women removed their scarves and others wore hats so that they were not stigmatized as Muslim. A few women admitted to not leaving their homes for days because they were afraid of being targeted because they were visibly Muslim. Some participants said that they were advised by their non-Muslim co-workers to remove their scarf, for fear that they would be harassed.
Most people can easily make the connection that a woman wearing the hijab is Muslim, making Muslim women an easy target for harassment but also an easy source of information on Islam and its practices. Many women who wear the hijab, especially young women in high school and college felt a tremendous amount of responsibility was placed on them as teachers, colleagues, friends would come to them for answers on Islam. These women were forced into a position where they had to talk about Islam and more often than not, defend Islam. Although some women accepted the task, some felt that they were being forced into a more vocal position, one that they did not necessarily want to assume.
However, 9/11's effect on women who wear the hijab was not all negative. Many women felt their determination grew stronger, that they wore their veils tighter and with more pride. As an expression of her Islamic identity, one Vancouver woman wore the veil post-9/11.
The census I get is that muslim women are largely annoyed by the western view of their religion. They do not feel oppressed wearing the veil.
New York Times
When asked what they resented most about their own societies, a majority of Muslim women polled said that a lack of unity among Muslim nations, violent extremism, and political and economic corruption were their main concerns. The hijab, or head scarf, and burqa, the garment covering face and body, seen by some Westerners as tools of oppression, were never mentioned in the women's answers to the open-ended questions, the poll analysts said.
Ms. Mogahed, who was born in Egypt and wears a Islamic head scarf, rejected the idea that Muslim women had been brainwashed by the dominant male culture, citing as proof the fact that women freely stated that they deserved certain rights.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Interestingly over 2,500 kids were reported to have abused one of their parents.
I'm really curious about what leads you to believe that women's situation in Mexico, Bolivia, Nigeria, Iran, et al can be compared to the situation of Canadian women.
Well, ahnimus, I was expecting something more than a complete and utter dodge from you on this. You adressed none of my points, apart from saying I read nothing, and then post a load of other stats. I am tempted to say that you dont read your own material either, if you can completely bypass what I have highlighted twice now in regards to that source.
I'm behind Caterina, on how you compare canadian and other women, since your data is mostly canadian. (I havent looked through all the new links yet, but it is late. I might look them over in the morning.)
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I'm really curious about what leads you to believe that women's situation in Mexico, Bolivia, Nigeria, Iran, et al can be compared to the situation of Canadian women.
Caterina
I don't know anything about the situation in Mexico, Bolivia or Nigeria. But I do know that the situation in Iran is not nearly as dark as it's made out to be.
I can really only talk about the women in my own country, since the only option for Iran is to invade and probably kill more people in the process.
Amnesty International has this to say about women's rights in Iran
Demonstrations in Tehran in March and June demanding an end to discrimination in law against women were broken up harshly by the security forces. Some protesters were injured.
• Former Majles deputy Sayed Ali Akbar Mousavi-Kho'ini was arrested at the June demonstration and held for over four months before his release on bail in October. He reported that he had been tortured in detention.
In August, women's rights activists launched a campaign to gather a million signatures to a petition demanding equal rights for women.
Demonstrations in Canada and the United States are also "broken up harshly" to the point that the RCMP embeds agent provacateurs in crowds to incite riots so they can break them up harshly with tazers and tear gas.
I don't see that as particularly unusual. The police breaking up a protest doesn't convey in any way the governments support for or against the protesters. It's just to break up the protest so a riot doesn't occur.
Of course if this was a riot of men for some men's rights, it wouldn't even be mentioned on Amnesty.org. Just like this article: "Safe Schools are every girl's right" fuck the boys right? Everything is biased as hell from a feminist slant. The exact same crime against a man is more of a crime against a woman.
The other thing is that Amnesty doesn't even care about DV against men, they have a big fat zero statistics on it. Meanwhile they have a page devoted to violence against women. Every organization does, violence against men is almost completely absent from social studies. Meanwhile, the rare organizations that do look at those statistics show there is a lot of it.
The bottom line is, this bias gives you a bias perspective. You are completely oblivious to any incidences of an Iranian woman beating her husband. Because of their culture, I doubt it would ever be reported anyway.
The issue of women's rights is totally exaggerate. The Burqa or Hajib is a good example. Western groups view it as a sign of oppression, many Muslim women do not. The problem is, we are zooming in on and exaggerating issues that we feel strongly about, because our society reinforces those issues. No one gives a rats ass if a guy is beaten by his wife, they only care if it's popular to care about it.
It sure doesn't sound like women are being hugely oppressed in that way. Yet, that's what we'd be led to believe by these feminist groups chirping about the Burqa and Hajib all the time. When it comes to domestic violence, the research is equally skewed and screwed.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm really curious about what leads you to believe that women's situation in Mexico, Bolivia, Nigeria, Iran, et al can be compared to the situation of Canadian women.
Caterina
The other thing is that cross-cultural studies show that domestic violence is pretty much the same everywhere.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Well, ahnimus, I was expecting something more than a complete and utter dodge from you on this. You adressed none of my points, apart from saying I read nothing, and then post a load of other stats. I am tempted to say that you dont read your own material either, if you can completely bypass what I have highlighted twice now in regards to that source.
I'm behind Caterina, on how you compare canadian and other women, since your data is mostly canadian. (I havent looked through all the new links yet, but it is late. I might look them over in the morning.)
Peace
Dan
I didn't dodge your points. Does supporting the feminist agenda get you lots of pussy or what? You seem like a rational person, but here your just blindly supporting the agenda with straw man arguments. I pointed out that your argument was a straw man and you want to go back to it. I'm not into that, look at the bigger picture and use your brain.
The difference between Canada and Iran is only going to be culture (religion) not physiology. So any differences will be the result of held beliefs and that isn't something you are going to change. The other issue as I already raised is that any action against the Iranian government will likely cause more harm to the people you are trying to protect. Finally, the feminist agenda uses mythical statistics and stereotypes which are ultimately detrimental to our own societies to the extents I've posted and then some.
What you did was pluck out some stats where women were the primary victims and ignored the opposite stats. For example, women are more likely to cut or stab their husbands. This you completely ignored, you ignored the fact that men are less likely to report incidences of domestic violence. Instead you focused in on a few stats in favor of your agenda. Your agenda is illogical, because your approach off the bat is to support feminism and the bullshit it advances. This can only bennefit you by making you more popular with the ladies. You also ignored the over all stat that 8% of women and 7% of men are victims. Yes, women are more often reporting domestic violence, a very small amount more however. Hardly enough to warrant such a biased approach. So what is your true agenda? does all your skepticism and centrality go out the window when you could gain popularity by blindly supporting some irrational propaganda?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
So what is your true agenda? does all your skepticism and centrality go out the window when you could gain popularity by blindly supporting some irrational propaganda?
The fact that you can't just accept that he may just simply disagree with you, without an agenda and not be inferior to you makes you look like the pompous ass that you are.
As she did with many issues, Erin Pizzey recognized very early that domestic violence had nothing to do with the patriarchy. In her book Prone to Violence, she compares violent men from the patriarchal society of Nigeria and the matriarchal society of West India and finds no basic differences. She has also argued that the feminist movement's intent is to destroy families as we know them.
Susan Steinmetz, Ph.D., a leading researcher in the field of family violence, has done a cross-cultural comparison of marital abuse. Using a modified version of the Conflict Tactics Scale (CTS), she examined marital violence in small samples from six societies: Finland, United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, Belize, and Israel. Her results suggest that "...in each society the percentage of husbands who used violence was similar to the percentage of violent wives." The major exception was Puerto Rico where men were more violent. She also found that: "Wives who used violence...tended to use greater amounts."
I can understand if you don't agree with Islam. I don't like it either, I dislike 99% of the beliefs people have. I dislike Christianity, but I can't petition my government to stop it. Let alone petition the Iranian or Nigerian government to give up Islam. The research shows that even in a matriarchal society it's the same thing. Feminists wish that was the cause, but it's not.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The fact that you can't just accept that he may just simply disagree with you, without an agenda and not be inferior to you makes you look like the pompous ass that you are.
Good one. Except he didn't take the time to really read anything. He just looked for a straw man and used it. That much is pretty obvious.
By the way, you haven't really added anything. It seems like all you do is dish out insults, maybe your the pompous ass. If your so fucking smart and informed why don't you back it up?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Interestingly over 2,500 kids were reported to have abused one of their parents.
that shows some stats on over-all family violence. the only DV between partners stats it gives are "Spousal Homicide or attempts and prior police contact for spousal abuse" No where does it give any indication that says that there is as many men that are victims of DV as there are women
I'm just waiting for you to say that the stats from the US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics have it all wrong. and only YOUR skewed view of domestic violence is the correct view
that shows some stats on over-all family violence. the only DV between partners stats it gives are "Spousal Homicide or attempts and prior police contact for spousal abuse" No where does it give any indication that says that there is as many men that are victims of DV as there are women
I never said that was explicitly mentioned in the 2007 stats, but it is in the 2004 as I've already posted. Wtf is your point?
I'm just waiting for you to say that the stats from the US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics have it all wrong. and only YOUR skewed view of domestic violence is the correct view
Hold on. I already looked at these stats and commented on the DOJ. These stats are only for percentage of victims of domestic violence in an intimate relationship as opposed to a non-intimate relationship.. It says nothing about the total victims/reports of domestic violence. I criticized the DOJ for not making those statistics public or for not tracking them to begin with.
Look, wake up. When I was a young boy this incident happened where a woman chopped the penis off of her sleeping husband. The overwhelming response from women was "Way to go!" "That's one for us!" and other statements along those lines. That is fucking disgusting and you are still denying that this shit is even a problem. You probably cheered her on too.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I never said that was explicitly mentioned in the 2007 stats, but it is in the 2004 as I've already posted. Wtf is your point?
Hold on. I already looked at these stats and commented on the DOJ. These stats are only for percentage of victims of domestic violence in an intimate relationship as opposed to a non-intimate relationship.. It says nothing about the total victims/reports of domestic violence. I criticized the DOJ for not making those statistics public or for not tracking them to begin with.
Look, wake up. When I was a young boy this incident happened where a woman chopped the penis off of her sleeping husband. The overwhelming response from women was "Way to go!" "That's one for us!" and other statements along those lines. That is fucking disgusting and you are still denying that this shit is even a problem. You probably cheered her on too.
:rolleyes:
no it doesn't give total numbers. how is it that you figure that these percentages don't count? simple common sense would tell you that DV stats would include those listed as Intimates or Other relatives
Violence between intimates includes -
homicides, rapes, robberies, and assaults committed by intimates.
Intimate relationships involve -
current or former spouses, boyfriends, or girlfriends including same sex relationships.
Intimates are distinguished from -
- other relatives (parent, child, sibling, grandparent, in-law, cousin)
- acquaintances (friend, co-worker, neighbor, schoolmate, someone known)
- strangers (anyone not previously known by the victim)
Domestic violence includes -
intimate partner violence as well as violence between family members
when you consider that gays and lesbians make up from 10 to 13% of the US population; what was that about lesbian partners commiting DV against their partners more often? you might want to read this part:
Nonfatal intimate partner violence is most frequently committed by individuals of opposite genders.
On average from 1993-2004 --
about 97% of females experiencing nonfatal intimate partner violence were victimized by a male and about 2% reported that the offender was another female.
about 84% of males experiencing nonfatal intimate partner violence were victimized by a female and about 12% of males reported that the offender was another male
YOU seem to be the only one asleep here. at no time have i EVER said that DV isn't a problem doesn't go both ways with men as well as women being the perpetrators and the victims. however your contention that women being the perpetrators and men the victims happens at an nearly equal rate as does men being the perpetrators and women the victims, is flat out bullshit.
no, i didn't cheer on Lorena Bobbit. I don't cheer for anyone commiting violence against another person. you have some serious issues if you think there's thousands of Lorena Bobbits running around and men don't sexually mutilate their partners. the fact that it even made the news was because women as the perpetrators of sexaul mutilation against their partners occurs so very rarely.
while on the subject, what about the fact that in many parts of Africa genital mutilation of girls and women is quite common place? where's these equal numbers of women commiting genital mutilation against men??? oh i get it, according to you these men never report it when women hack their penises off?
You contradicted yourself in the first two sentences and everything is incomprehensibly irrelevent.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
This report, supported by the National Institute of Justice and the Bureau of
Justice Statistics, represents an important first step in analyzing what needs to be
done to ensure reliable estimates of the extent and nature of violent crimes
committed against women.
Research on violence against women is gaining unprecedented momentum. We
look forward to continued partnership in using the tools of research and statistics
to improve the way we deal with violence against women and treat women
victims of violent crime.
This is from the DOJ Domestic and Sexual Violence Data Collection. They don't give a shit about gathering statistics about men, this is primarily about gather statistics about violence against women. It's a totally biased approach. The Canadian statistics aren't so exclusive. They don't make statements like "The Violence Against Women Act provides for a fundamental change in our
criminal justice system's response to violent crimes committed against women." at the top of the forward. In-fact, it reads "As part of an ongoing initiative to inform the public about family violence issues, the Canadian Centre for Justice
Statistics produces this annual statistical profile on family violence. The purpose of the report is to provide current
data on the nature and extent of family violence incidents in Canada and to monitor trends over time.".
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
You contradicted yourself in the first two sentences and everything is incomprehensibly irrelevent.
the "Spousal Homicide or attempts and prior police contact for spousal abuse" was the only stat regarding DV between Inimate partners that YOU gave. the rest was ONLY about other family members.
the stats in the link I gave would show (though you refuse to acknowledge it)that the stats for both Intimate partners and Other relatives would add up to be DV stats and those stats as they pertain to both male and female victims. as well as opposite and same sex couples
because you've been spounting off falsehoods and don't want to see the truth, that makes what I said incomprehensibly irrelevent??? oh way to dodge the issue and attempt to blame the messenger instead of addressing the facts in the links that i posted.
I hope that if anyone else seems to think that what I've posted is
"incomprehensibly irrelevent' that they make sure to let me know. because I already know that YOU are full of it.
The major finding is that many States are already collecting or are implementing
systems to collect data on domestic and sexual violence offenses. According to
the State survey results, 35 of 47 responding States and Territories collect
domestic violence statistics annually, and 30 respondents gather sexual violence
statistics. But there is wide variation among States that have systems in place or
nearing completion with regard to what information is collected and how it is
gathered.
The variability reflects differences in how States have approached these two
issues and the existing structures for collecting general crime incident data. For
example, some States have passed specific domestic or family violence statutes
that clearly define this as an offense and may even have statewide reporting
requirements. Other States have not designated domestic violence as a separate
offense but have instituted reporting systems for cases that can be characterized
as such. If a State already had an incident-based crime reporting system, then it
may have simply added or derived domestic violence crime statistics from this.
Lacking this capability, other States have had to create domestic violence-specific
reporting systems.
And, lo and behold a large percentage of the statistics originates from Women's Abuse Shelters. Men's Abuse Shelters are non-existent.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
the "Spousal Homicide or attempts and prior police contact for spousal abuse" was the only stat regarding DV between Inimate partners that YOU gave. the rest was ONLY about other family members.
the stats in the link I gave would show (though you refuse to acknowledge it)that the stats for both Intimate partners and Other relatives would add up to be DV stats and those stats as they pertain to both male and female victims. as well as opposite and same sex couples
because you've been spounting off falsehoods and don't want to see the truth, that makes what I said incomprehensibly irrelevent??? oh way to dodge the issue and attempt to blame the messenger instead of addressing the facts in the links that i posted.
I hope that if anyone else seems to think that what I've posted is
"incomprehensibly irrelevent' that they make sure to let me know. because I already know that YOU are full of it.
More feminist propaganda? I just showed that the US statistics are biased as all hell. I've posted the last three years of stats from Canada. What the hell are you talking about?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
And, lo and behold a large percentage of the statistics originates from Women's Abuse Shelters. Men's Abuse Shelters are non-existent.
where are the things that you are attributing to the DofJ in your last two posts appear anywhre on the the Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statics pages? and that this data orginates from Women's Abuse Shelters? come on, lets see the links
More feminist propaganda? I just showed that the US statistics are biased as all hell. I've posted the last three years of stats from Canada. What the hell are you talking about?
oh give it up. the US Department of Justice is biased against men and only gives out feminist propaganda...alrighty :rolleyes:
oh give it up. the US Department of Justice is biased against men and only gives out feminist propaganda...alrighty :rolleyes:
Let me ask you this: Why are you so adement about proving me wrong? Do you think if women are abused more it will make them superior? Or it will justify a biased system? What's your agenda?
My agenda is clearly stated. I want equality.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Here is something you should read. It's by Linda Kelly Indiana Law Professor.
Domestic abuse. The term immediately conjures up images nationally
spread through such highly publicized events as the murder
trial of O.J. Simpson and the saga of John and Lorena Bobbit, hit
tunes like Tracy Chapman’s Behind the Wall,1 and movies like Julia
Robert’s Sleeping with the Enemy2 or Farrah Fawcett’s The Burning
Bed.3 Everyone can also tell a more local story about domestic violence,
be it one carried in a hometown newspaper or known about the
neighbors. After a long history of hiding domestic violence behind
closed bedroom doors, everyone now knows all about the existence
and prevalence of domestic violence.4 Or do we? The images we associate
with domestic violence depict the male as batterer and the female
as victim. Yet, despite the critical importance of first acknowledging
and then eradicating the male abuse of women, an equally
important but untold story remains.5 Women can be batterers. Men
can be victims.
Over the last twenty-five years, leading sociologists have repeatedly
found that men and women commit violence at similar rates.
The 1977 assertion that “the phenomenon of husband battering”6 is
as prevalent as wife abuse is confirmed by nationally representative
studies, such as the Family Violence Surveys, as well as by numerous other sources.7 However, despite the wealth and diversity of the sociological
research and the consistency of the findings, female violence
is not recognized within the extensive legal literature on domestic
violence. Instead, the literature consistently suggests that
only men commit domestic violence. Either explicitly, or more often
implicitly, through the failure to address the subject in any objective
manner, female violence is denied, defended and minimized.
This is precisely what is happening. If you search google for "domestic violence against men" you immediately get a bunch of sites about it. On the other hand if you suffix it with "site:.gov" to restrict the hits to US government websites, you immediately get the US OVW Office on Violence against Women. Violence against Men is non-existent in governments. The Canadian Health Services doesn't recognize it either. Yet, it does happen. We can argue statistics a long time, but the fact will always remain that any amount of abuse should be recognized.
I've been thinking. The problem is all categorical. All this stuff gets dumped into a bin called "Violence Against Women" which is a very poor definition. Because none of the motivation comes from the fact that the individuals are women. Rape happens to boys too, it happens a lot. People of all genders and ages are coerced into sex. Take MADD Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Why Mothers? Why not People? It fits this stereotypical image we have of families that supports our need for simplicity. But the fundamental fact is that you can't know about everyone's situation. We try to put cute labels on everything but it's wrong in the end. Sometimes I think society likes to interfere a lot with my personal business. I come on here and make a statement and someone responds "Liberal", "Cynical", "Fascist", there is always a label for something I said. It's Everyone Against Everyone Else.
How is it that our general legal understanding of domestic violence
as defined by the male abuse of women is so squarely contradicted
by the empirical reality? Honestly answering this question requires
tracing the history of both the theory and practice of domestic
violence law. Undertaking such an exploration, one quickly finds that
the “discovery” of domestic violence is rooted in the essential feminist
tenet that society is controlled by an all-encompassing patriarchal
structure.8 This fundamental feminist understanding of domestic
violence has far-reaching implications. By dismissing the possibility
of female violence, the framework of legal programs and social norms
is narrowly shaped to respond only to the male abuse of women. Female
batterers cannot be recognized. Male victims cannot be treated.
If we are to truly address the phenomenon of domestic violence, the
legal response to domestic violence and the biases which underlie it
must be challenged.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Let me ask you this: Why are you so adement about proving me wrong? Do you think if women are abused more it will make them superior? Or it will justify a biased system? What's your agenda?
Posted by DOJ
This report, supported by the National Institute of Justice and the Bureau of
Justice Statistics, represents an important first step in analyzing what needs to be
done to ensure reliable estimates of the extent and nature of violent crimes
committed against women.
Research on violence against women is gaining unprecedented momentum. We
look forward to continued partnership in using the tools of research and statistics
to improve the way we deal with violence against women and treat women
victims of violent crime.
Quote:
The major finding is that many States are already collecting or are implementing
systems to collect data on domestic and sexual violence offenses. According to
the State survey results, 35 of 47 responding States and Territories collect
domestic violence statistics annually, and 30 respondents gather sexual violence
statistics. But there is wide variation among States that have systems in place or
nearing completion with regard to what information is collected and how it is
gathered.
The variability reflects differences in how States have approached these two
issues and the existing structures for collecting general crime incident data. For
example, some States have passed specific domestic or family violence statutes
that clearly define this as an offense and may even have statewide reporting
requirements. Other States have not designated domestic violence as a separate
offense but have instituted reporting systems for cases that can be characterized
as such. If a State already had an incident-based crime reporting system, then it
may have simply added or derived domestic violence crime statistics from this.
Lacking this capability, other States have had to create domestic violence-specific
reporting systems.
And, lo and behold a large percentage of the statistics originates from Women's Abuse Shelters. Men's Abuse Shelters are non-existent.
just as i suspected you didn't get any of that that from the Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statics that you in your posts attributed to them.
what i want is the truth. it's not so much that i'm out to "prove you wrong" it's that i hate seeing people resort to lies and falsehoods in order to try and make some bogus points and try to deflect attention away from an important issue
I don't want women or men to be considered as superior over the other. however when it comes to being victims in matters of DV, rape and sexual assault women are not at all equal to men. I think the first steps to any kind of equality between men and women comes from honestly acknowledging these facts and working on raising awareness and education. as long as people deny these inequalities do in fact exist, people will never get close to approaching actual equality
Here is something you should read. It's by Linda Kelly Indiana Law Professor.
This is precisely what is happening. If you search google for "domestic violence against men" you immediately get a bunch of sites about it. On the other hand if you suffix it with "site:.gov" to restrict the hits to US government websites, you immediately get the US OVW Office on Violence against Women. Violence against Men is non-existent in governments. The Canadian Health Services doesn't recognize it either. Yet, it does happen. We can argue statistics a long time, but the fact will always remain that any amount of abuse should be recognized.
I've been thinking. The problem is all categorical. All this stuff gets dumped into a bin called "Violence Against Women" which is a very poor definition. Because none of the motivation comes from the fact that the individuals are women. Rape happens to boys too, it happens a lot. People of all genders and ages are coerced into sex. Take MADD Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Why Mothers? Why not People? It fits this stereotypical image we have of families that supports our need for simplicity. But the fundamental fact is that you can't know about everyone's situation. We try to put cute labels on everything but it's wrong in the end. Sometimes I think society likes to interfere a lot with my personal business. I come on here and make a statement and someone responds "Liberal", "Cynical", "Fascist", there is always a label for something I said. It's Everyone Against Everyone Else.
the links I posted didn't come from the OVW. they came from Bureau of Justice Statics which DOES includes stats on Men and Women as victims AND as offenders.
and for the millionth time; yes women DO abuse men but the instances of men abusing women are much greater and are hardly equal. if violence commited by women was equal to that commited by men where are all these women commiting other violent crimes ie child molestion, rape, murder, sexual abuse, armed robbery, burgalry, car-jackings, bank robberies? i mean sure women DO do those things but just like in DV, not nearly at the same rate as men do. I don't give a rat's ass what one law professor claims to the contrary.
just as i suspected you didn't get any of that that from the Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statics that you in your posts attributed to them.
what i want is the truth. it's not so much that i'm out to "prove you wrong" it's that i hate seeing people resort to lies and falsehoods in order to try and make some bogus points and try to deflect attention away from an important issue
I don't want women or men to be considered as superior over the other. however when it comes to being victims in matters of DV, rape and sexual assault women are not at all equal to men. I think the first steps to any kind of equality between men and women comes from honestly acknowledging these facts and working on raising awareness and education. as long as people deny these inequalities do in fact exist, people will never get close to approaching actual equality
Fuck the statistics at this point. It's a pragmatic issue. Look up Susan Steinmetz and all the other sociological research that has gone into this. Actually read the shit I posted. The evidence is there. But regardless of that any generalization that society holds to be a truth will become a statistical reality. If society in part ignores something then it won't be reflect in stats. Which is exactly my point, you are expecting there to be women rape victims so that's all you will find. John Wayne Gacy raped and murdered 33 boys and young men alone. There is absolutely no defense for the explicit marriage of "rape" and "woman" as terms in society. There is nothing to gain from it but error. Patriarchy is not the problem, I've given evidence of that. It's not even true where I live. The only patriarchy that I know of is the deal with the last name. Women rule just about everything. Behind 99% of a man's actions is a woman. Believe it, I know not one relationship that has a dominant male. Dominant females almost entirely, one or two "traditional" relationships, but the women don't complain, they chose it and can leave any time. Anyway, I'm just disgusted. The degradation of men that is totally explicit. If it's Violence Against Women I wonder who the criminals are :rolleyes:. It could just as easily be STOP RAPE or whatever the real issue is and drop this feminist baggage that's dragging us down.
Uh, CaterineA I'm sorry for getting your thread off-track. I took Jeanie's advice and created a new one for debating this aspect, but it kinda continued here. :(
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Why in America are they underrepresented in government?
Why has there never been a woman president?
Why are there not an equal number of women on the forbes list?
If you think about it, do you really think those figures mean anything?
I've looked into this so-called gender pay gap on more than one occasion and it's difficult to support with evidence. Out of my last three supervisors two of them were women. They make a lot of money. The corporate lawyer for my company is a woman, the CEO of my previous employer was a woman. I don't know what country you live in. It sounds like the US though.
There has never been a woman president because woman's liberation wasn't very long ago and none of won office in a backward's ass country like the United States Of America.
There are not an equal number of women on the forbes list because an equal number of women haven't made the forbes list. That's all you can conclude from it. There could be a lot of reasons ranging from editor bias to maternity leave. A woman could get on the list if she had the mentality of Bill Gates and did absolutely everything he did.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
but why are you using Canada's stats? ... this initiative is clearly focused on other parts of the world where the gap between opportunity and life are far greater ...
i haven't read the whole thread - but i don't see how a petition or awareness campaign like this can be bad?
i can easily see a scenario where a girl tries stabbing a guy and he ends up with nothing but she is badly beaten. the fact is, DV is always a crime in progress with 2 parties who are both impassioned and screaming and fighting and pointing fingers. it's impossible to sort it out while their emotions are both still hot on the scene.
the scene you describe sounds more like flat out battery. they could book him on battery instead of DV if it is clearly a one-sided beating.
It's the stereotypical approach. Stereotypes hurt us. Such that there is disproportionate support for different people. If you ask me, men in these countries are equally the victims of destiny, they are the victims of ideology.
You can find women that agree with the ideology too. When they immigrate to Canada, many muslim women continue to cover themselves up. Ann Coulter thinks Mysoginy is great! Go figure? The ideology is the problem. But feminism is it's own form of dogma. It's not a solution to the problem, it's just a diversion, a way to redirect the problem.
that's an interesting point of view ... i can't say that my experiences traveling to various countries supports that ... is there any substantive literature on that?
I'm not sure which point you are asking about. But about the redirection of problems, there is plenty. Take this as an example
1. About half of the married men who have contacted the Equal Justice Foundation for assistance report that they were charged with domestic violence or abuse after they found their wife was having an affair. Filing such charges gives her both vengeance against her husband (how dare he spy on her) and the house, the car, the kids, the bank account, credit cards, and anything else she wants to take.
2. With a sample size of well over 300,000 DNA paternity tests per year it is evident that some 30%, or roughly one in three, of these tests show the alleged father could not possibly have fathered the child.
You can be certain any children you have will be used as weapons against you in the divorce and DV case. Thus, when charged with DV or abuse and you have children it is essential to have DNA paternity testing done to verify, or deny you are the biological father. In today's world it would be wise to have the DNA paternity test done immediately after her child is born. However, if she has been having an affair she will likely do everything in her considerable power, as given to her by the false DV charges, to keep you from the kids and prevent DNA testing from being done.
3. Colorado law now prohibits a man from challenging child support once orders are entered or the divorce is final. Thus, a domestic violence conviction may often lead to a man being enslaved to pay child support for children he is not the biological father of, and for children he does not, or cannot have contact with.
many more examples at dvmen.org
As for the female voice in Islam. CCMW looks to be a good source. This is from one of their publications called "Voices of Muslim Women"
The hijab is directly linked to the previous section on religious freedoms. The hijab has always been a contentious issue, a separate heading was needed to effectively address the issue. Although it is positive to see discourse on a religious practice, the issue of hijab continues to dominate religious debates within Muslim and non-Muslim communities. October 5th 2001, Oprah Winfrey dedicated an entire show to, what she called 'Islam 101'. This was promising but as one young Muslim women wrote, "after a quick discussion of what Islam was about, the show veered off to the discussion of women in Islam, and particularly the dress code. The 'after show' segment was entirely about the hijab. The undue emphasis on hijab needs to be put to rest so that more pressing matters like "why our young men are turning themselves into bombs, why we do not have democracy in Muslim countries, whether American foreign policy is based on principles of equality and liberty for all.
Within this context, it is imperative to look at the women who wear the hijab and how they were effected by 9/11. Some North American Muslim organizations, like the Islamic Services Association of the United States and Canada and imams of local mosques advised women to take off their hijab. Some women removed their scarves and others wore hats so that they were not stigmatized as Muslim. A few women admitted to not leaving their homes for days because they were afraid of being targeted because they were visibly Muslim. Some participants said that they were advised by their non-Muslim co-workers to remove their scarf, for fear that they would be harassed.
Most people can easily make the connection that a woman wearing the hijab is Muslim, making Muslim women an easy target for harassment but also an easy source of information on Islam and its practices. Many women who wear the hijab, especially young women in high school and college felt a tremendous amount of responsibility was placed on them as teachers, colleagues, friends would come to them for answers on Islam. These women were forced into a position where they had to talk about Islam and more often than not, defend Islam. Although some women accepted the task, some felt that they were being forced into a more vocal position, one that they did not necessarily want to assume.
However, 9/11's effect on women who wear the hijab was not all negative. Many women felt their determination grew stronger, that they wore their veils tighter and with more pride. As an expression of her Islamic identity, one Vancouver woman wore the veil post-9/11.
http://www.ccmw.com/resources/res_pub_VoiceofWomen_FullText.html
The census I get is that muslim women are largely annoyed by the western view of their religion. They do not feel oppressed wearing the veil.
New York Times
When asked what they resented most about their own societies, a majority of Muslim women polled said that a lack of unity among Muslim nations, violent extremism, and political and economic corruption were their main concerns. The hijab, or head scarf, and burqa, the garment covering face and body, seen by some Westerners as tools of oppression, were never mentioned in the women's answers to the open-ended questions, the poll analysts said.
http://www.racematters.org/muslimwomennotoppressed.htm
Ms. Mogahed, who was born in Egypt and wears a Islamic head scarf, rejected the idea that Muslim women had been brainwashed by the dominant male culture, citing as proof the fact that women freely stated that they deserved certain rights.
I'm really curious about what leads you to believe that women's situation in Mexico, Bolivia, Nigeria, Iran, et al can be compared to the situation of Canadian women.
Caterina
I'm behind Caterina, on how you compare canadian and other women, since your data is mostly canadian. (I havent looked through all the new links yet, but it is late. I might look them over in the morning.)
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I don't know anything about the situation in Mexico, Bolivia or Nigeria. But I do know that the situation in Iran is not nearly as dark as it's made out to be.
I can really only talk about the women in my own country, since the only option for Iran is to invade and probably kill more people in the process.
Amnesty International has this to say about women's rights in Iran
Demonstrations in Canada and the United States are also "broken up harshly" to the point that the RCMP embeds agent provacateurs in crowds to incite riots so they can break them up harshly with tazers and tear gas.
I don't see that as particularly unusual. The police breaking up a protest doesn't convey in any way the governments support for or against the protesters. It's just to break up the protest so a riot doesn't occur.
Of course if this was a riot of men for some men's rights, it wouldn't even be mentioned on Amnesty.org. Just like this article: "Safe Schools are every girl's right" fuck the boys right? Everything is biased as hell from a feminist slant. The exact same crime against a man is more of a crime against a woman.
The other thing is that Amnesty doesn't even care about DV against men, they have a big fat zero statistics on it. Meanwhile they have a page devoted to violence against women. Every organization does, violence against men is almost completely absent from social studies. Meanwhile, the rare organizations that do look at those statistics show there is a lot of it.
The bottom line is, this bias gives you a bias perspective. You are completely oblivious to any incidences of an Iranian woman beating her husband. Because of their culture, I doubt it would ever be reported anyway.
The issue of women's rights is totally exaggerate. The Burqa or Hajib is a good example. Western groups view it as a sign of oppression, many Muslim women do not. The problem is, we are zooming in on and exaggerating issues that we feel strongly about, because our society reinforces those issues. No one gives a rats ass if a guy is beaten by his wife, they only care if it's popular to care about it.
Tehran is the nose job capital of the world
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/02/eveningnews/main692495.shtml
It sure doesn't sound like women are being hugely oppressed in that way. Yet, that's what we'd be led to believe by these feminist groups chirping about the Burqa and Hajib all the time. When it comes to domestic violence, the research is equally skewed and screwed.
The other thing is that cross-cultural studies show that domestic violence is pretty much the same everywhere.
I didn't dodge your points. Does supporting the feminist agenda get you lots of pussy or what? You seem like a rational person, but here your just blindly supporting the agenda with straw man arguments. I pointed out that your argument was a straw man and you want to go back to it. I'm not into that, look at the bigger picture and use your brain.
The difference between Canada and Iran is only going to be culture (religion) not physiology. So any differences will be the result of held beliefs and that isn't something you are going to change. The other issue as I already raised is that any action against the Iranian government will likely cause more harm to the people you are trying to protect. Finally, the feminist agenda uses mythical statistics and stereotypes which are ultimately detrimental to our own societies to the extents I've posted and then some.
What you did was pluck out some stats where women were the primary victims and ignored the opposite stats. For example, women are more likely to cut or stab their husbands. This you completely ignored, you ignored the fact that men are less likely to report incidences of domestic violence. Instead you focused in on a few stats in favor of your agenda. Your agenda is illogical, because your approach off the bat is to support feminism and the bullshit it advances. This can only bennefit you by making you more popular with the ladies. You also ignored the over all stat that 8% of women and 7% of men are victims. Yes, women are more often reporting domestic violence, a very small amount more however. Hardly enough to warrant such a biased approach. So what is your true agenda? does all your skepticism and centrality go out the window when you could gain popularity by blindly supporting some irrational propaganda?
The fact that you can't just accept that he may just simply disagree with you, without an agenda and not be inferior to you makes you look like the pompous ass that you are.
http://www.dvmen.org/dv-40.htm
http://www.bennett.com/ptv
Susan Steinmetz, Ph.D., a leading researcher in the field of family violence, has done a cross-cultural comparison of marital abuse. Using a modified version of the Conflict Tactics Scale (CTS), she examined marital violence in small samples from six societies: Finland, United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, Belize, and Israel. Her results suggest that "...in each society the percentage of husbands who used violence was similar to the percentage of violent wives." The major exception was Puerto Rico where men were more violent. She also found that: "Wives who used violence...tended to use greater amounts."
I can understand if you don't agree with Islam. I don't like it either, I dislike 99% of the beliefs people have. I dislike Christianity, but I can't petition my government to stop it. Let alone petition the Iranian or Nigerian government to give up Islam. The research shows that even in a matriarchal society it's the same thing. Feminists wish that was the cause, but it's not.
Good one. Except he didn't take the time to really read anything. He just looked for a straw man and used it. That much is pretty obvious.
By the way, you haven't really added anything. It seems like all you do is dish out insults, maybe your the pompous ass. If your so fucking smart and informed why don't you back it up?
that shows some stats on over-all family violence. the only DV between partners stats it gives are "Spousal Homicide or attempts and prior police contact for spousal abuse" No where does it give any indication that says that there is as many men that are victims of DV as there are women
however I did find these DV stats comparing female vs. males for the US. here you go: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/intimate/victims.htm
I'm just waiting for you to say that the stats from the US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics have it all wrong. and only YOUR skewed view of domestic violence is the correct view
angels share laughter
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I never said that was explicitly mentioned in the 2007 stats, but it is in the 2004 as I've already posted. Wtf is your point?
Hold on. I already looked at these stats and commented on the DOJ. These stats are only for percentage of victims of domestic violence in an intimate relationship as opposed to a non-intimate relationship.. It says nothing about the total victims/reports of domestic violence. I criticized the DOJ for not making those statistics public or for not tracking them to begin with.
Look, wake up. When I was a young boy this incident happened where a woman chopped the penis off of her sleeping husband. The overwhelming response from women was "Way to go!" "That's one for us!" and other statements along those lines. That is fucking disgusting and you are still denying that this shit is even a problem. You probably cheered her on too.
:rolleyes:
no it doesn't give total numbers. how is it that you figure that these percentages don't count? simple common sense would tell you that DV stats would include those listed as Intimates or Other relatives
Violence between intimates includes -
homicides, rapes, robberies, and assaults committed by intimates.
Intimate relationships involve -
current or former spouses, boyfriends, or girlfriends including same sex relationships.
Intimates are distinguished from -
- other relatives (parent, child, sibling, grandparent, in-law, cousin)
- acquaintances (friend, co-worker, neighbor, schoolmate, someone known)
- strangers (anyone not previously known by the victim)
Domestic violence includes -
intimate partner violence as well as violence between family members
when you consider that gays and lesbians make up from 10 to 13% of the US population; what was that about lesbian partners commiting DV against their partners more often? you might want to read this part:
Nonfatal intimate partner violence is most frequently committed by individuals of opposite genders.
On average from 1993-2004 --
about 97% of females experiencing nonfatal intimate partner violence were victimized by a male and about 2% reported that the offender was another female.
about 84% of males experiencing nonfatal intimate partner violence were victimized by a female and about 12% of males reported that the offender was another male
YOU seem to be the only one asleep here. at no time have i EVER said that DV isn't a problem doesn't go both ways with men as well as women being the perpetrators and the victims. however your contention that women being the perpetrators and men the victims happens at an nearly equal rate as does men being the perpetrators and women the victims, is flat out bullshit.
no, i didn't cheer on Lorena Bobbit. I don't cheer for anyone commiting violence against another person. you have some serious issues if you think there's thousands of Lorena Bobbits running around and men don't sexually mutilate their partners. the fact that it even made the news was because women as the perpetrators of sexaul mutilation against their partners occurs so very rarely.
while on the subject, what about the fact that in many parts of Africa genital mutilation of girls and women is quite common place? where's these equal numbers of women commiting genital mutilation against men??? oh i get it, according to you these men never report it when women hack their penises off?
angels share laughter
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This is from the DOJ Domestic and Sexual Violence Data Collection. They don't give a shit about gathering statistics about men, this is primarily about gather statistics about violence against women. It's a totally biased approach. The Canadian statistics aren't so exclusive. They don't make statements like "The Violence Against Women Act provides for a fundamental change in our
criminal justice system's response to violent crimes committed against women." at the top of the forward. In-fact, it reads "As part of an ongoing initiative to inform the public about family violence issues, the Canadian Centre for Justice
Statistics produces this annual statistical profile on family violence. The purpose of the report is to provide current
data on the nature and extent of family violence incidents in Canada and to monitor trends over time.".
the "Spousal Homicide or attempts and prior police contact for spousal abuse" was the only stat regarding DV between Inimate partners that YOU gave. the rest was ONLY about other family members.
the stats in the link I gave would show (though you refuse to acknowledge it)that the stats for both Intimate partners and Other relatives would add up to be DV stats and those stats as they pertain to both male and female victims. as well as opposite and same sex couples
because you've been spounting off falsehoods and don't want to see the truth, that makes what I said incomprehensibly irrelevent??? oh way to dodge the issue and attempt to blame the messenger instead of addressing the facts in the links that i posted.
I hope that if anyone else seems to think that what I've posted is
"incomprehensibly irrelevent' that they make sure to let me know. because I already know that YOU are full of it.
angels share laughter
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And, lo and behold a large percentage of the statistics originates from Women's Abuse Shelters. Men's Abuse Shelters are non-existent.
More feminist propaganda? I just showed that the US statistics are biased as all hell. I've posted the last three years of stats from Canada. What the hell are you talking about?
where are the things that you are attributing to the DofJ in your last two posts appear anywhre on the the Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statics pages? and that this data orginates from Women's Abuse Shelters? come on, lets see the links
this is all i could find that said anything about the data collected. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/intimate/addinfo.htm
angels share laughter
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oh give it up. the US Department of Justice is biased against men and only gives out feminist propaganda...alrighty :rolleyes:
angels share laughter
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Let me ask you this: Why are you so adement about proving me wrong? Do you think if women are abused more it will make them superior? Or it will justify a biased system? What's your agenda?
My agenda is clearly stated. I want equality.
This is precisely what is happening. If you search google for "domestic violence against men" you immediately get a bunch of sites about it. On the other hand if you suffix it with "site:.gov" to restrict the hits to US government websites, you immediately get the US OVW Office on Violence against Women. Violence against Men is non-existent in governments. The Canadian Health Services doesn't recognize it either. Yet, it does happen. We can argue statistics a long time, but the fact will always remain that any amount of abuse should be recognized.
I've been thinking. The problem is all categorical. All this stuff gets dumped into a bin called "Violence Against Women" which is a very poor definition. Because none of the motivation comes from the fact that the individuals are women. Rape happens to boys too, it happens a lot. People of all genders and ages are coerced into sex. Take MADD Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Why Mothers? Why not People? It fits this stereotypical image we have of families that supports our need for simplicity. But the fundamental fact is that you can't know about everyone's situation. We try to put cute labels on everything but it's wrong in the end. Sometimes I think society likes to interfere a lot with my personal business. I come on here and make a statement and someone responds "Liberal", "Cynical", "Fascist", there is always a label for something I said. It's Everyone Against Everyone Else.
just as i suspected you didn't get any of that that from the Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statics that you in your posts attributed to them.
what i want is the truth. it's not so much that i'm out to "prove you wrong" it's that i hate seeing people resort to lies and falsehoods in order to try and make some bogus points and try to deflect attention away from an important issue
I don't want women or men to be considered as superior over the other. however when it comes to being victims in matters of DV, rape and sexual assault women are not at all equal to men. I think the first steps to any kind of equality between men and women comes from honestly acknowledging these facts and working on raising awareness and education. as long as people deny these inequalities do in fact exist, people will never get close to approaching actual equality
angels share laughter
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the links I posted didn't come from the OVW. they came from Bureau of Justice Statics which DOES includes stats on Men and Women as victims AND as offenders.
and for the millionth time; yes women DO abuse men but the instances of men abusing women are much greater and are hardly equal. if violence commited by women was equal to that commited by men where are all these women commiting other violent crimes ie child molestion, rape, murder, sexual abuse, armed robbery, burgalry, car-jackings, bank robberies? i mean sure women DO do those things but just like in DV, not nearly at the same rate as men do. I don't give a rat's ass what one law professor claims to the contrary.
angels share laughter
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Fuck the statistics at this point. It's a pragmatic issue. Look up Susan Steinmetz and all the other sociological research that has gone into this. Actually read the shit I posted. The evidence is there. But regardless of that any generalization that society holds to be a truth will become a statistical reality. If society in part ignores something then it won't be reflect in stats. Which is exactly my point, you are expecting there to be women rape victims so that's all you will find. John Wayne Gacy raped and murdered 33 boys and young men alone. There is absolutely no defense for the explicit marriage of "rape" and "woman" as terms in society. There is nothing to gain from it but error. Patriarchy is not the problem, I've given evidence of that. It's not even true where I live. The only patriarchy that I know of is the deal with the last name. Women rule just about everything. Behind 99% of a man's actions is a woman. Believe it, I know not one relationship that has a dominant male. Dominant females almost entirely, one or two "traditional" relationships, but the women don't complain, they chose it and can leave any time. Anyway, I'm just disgusted. The degradation of men that is totally explicit. If it's Violence Against Women I wonder who the criminals are :rolleyes:. It could just as easily be STOP RAPE or whatever the real issue is and drop this feminist baggage that's dragging us down.
Uh, CaterineA I'm sorry for getting your thread off-track. I took Jeanie's advice and created a new one for debating this aspect, but it kinda continued here. :(
Then why are they paid less on average?
Why in America are they underrepresented in government?
Why has there never been a woman president?
Why are there not an equal number of women on the forbes list?
If you think about it, do you really think those figures mean anything?
I've looked into this so-called gender pay gap on more than one occasion and it's difficult to support with evidence. Out of my last three supervisors two of them were women. They make a lot of money. The corporate lawyer for my company is a woman, the CEO of my previous employer was a woman. I don't know what country you live in. It sounds like the US though.
There has never been a woman president because woman's liberation wasn't very long ago and none of won office in a backward's ass country like the United States Of America.
There are not an equal number of women on the forbes list because an equal number of women haven't made the forbes list. That's all you can conclude from it. There could be a lot of reasons ranging from editor bias to maternity leave. A woman could get on the list if she had the mentality of Bill Gates and did absolutely everything he did.