what world do you live in ahnimus? people are free to come and go as they please. just becasue i get out of a relationship with someone that doesnt mean they can't seek me out and continue to do harm to me.
Why would they?
They would have to have a motivation to do so to begin with.
If you get out early, it's not like you have 15 years and 3 children together.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I have a feeling it will be like the old opera house in Orillia. Sure, lots of boys got raped in those bathrooms, but nobody really cared enough to like, investigate it. Damn boys letting themselves get raped like that.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
They would have to have a motivation to do so to begin with.
If you get out early, it's not like you have 15 years and 3 children together.
oh yes and in every instance the guy shows his abusive side on the first date. you can not be so naive to think that violent men always show their true colours from the outset.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yeah, ok trix well that's great if you can or even if you'd want to.
I have no desire to drag a whole bunch of people into an eye for an eye type situation just for starters and if I could have kicked the living shit out of him I'm not sure I'd have wanted to anyway. The way I see it, he's the one with the violent tendancies and behaviours. It's bad enough he's inflicting that on me, be damned he's going to turn me into him by playing by his rules. I think we all handle these things differently and that's fine. We all have to make the best decisions we can in the circumstances we find ourselves in. My first concern will always be to live, to survive, to minimize the damage if I can and to get away as soon as I possibly can. I don't know if I'd still hold that view if I'd been systematically abused for years and years and years. Possibly a whole other reaction would be my response then. I think the important thing to remember here is that I live in a country where even though this does still happen, I do have some choices. I'd hate to live somewhere that purely by virtue of being born with a c**t I was someone else's property and at the mercy of their will.
I've seen some very good points on here but without a doubt, I can understand this 110%.
This may shock you but people who are prone to violence are not always rational.
That's not a surprise. It's apparent to me. The reason they are prone to violence is because they accept it as a part of life, they might complain about it and wish it weren't so, but they've been preconditioned to accept it as a fact of life. Preconditioned by what? Society and it's awe inspiring ability to make shit up and proliferate it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I have a feeling it will be like the old opera house in Orillia. Sure, lots of boys got raped in those bathrooms, but nobody really cared enough to like, investigate it. Damn boys letting themselves get raped like that.
Look seriously that's pathetic.
You're assuming what people think on the issue before you've even bothered to ask.
I cannot do anything about what has gone on before unless it is brought to my attention. And I cannot change what's happened in the past but I can make an effort to change it for the future.
If you don't give people the opportunity to make change then it will never happen.
oh yes and in every instance the guy shows his abusive side on the first date. you can not be so naive to think that violent men always show their true colours from the outset.
Wow, so on your first date with a guy you already have 3 kids, are married and have spent 15 years together? How does that happen?
Or, you think a guy is going to follow you home, rape you and murder you after the first date? And this happens to you often?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
You're assuming what people think on the issue before you've even bothered to ask.
I cannot do anything about what has gone on before unless it is brought to my attention. And I cannot change what's happened in the past but I can make an effort to change it for the future.
If you don't give people the opportunity to make change then it will never happen.
That's not a surprise. It's apparent to me. The reason they are prone to violence is because they accept it as a part of life, they might complain about it and wish it weren't so, but they've been preconditioned to accept it as a fact of life. Preconditioned by what? Society and it's awe inspiring ability to make shit up and proliferate it.
violence is a part of life. mankind likes to set himself apart from the other animals becasue he believes he is a higher order mammal, but it is only by societal conditioning that those natural tendencies are held in check.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
You're assuming what people think on the issue before you've even bothered to ask.
I cannot do anything about what has gone on before unless it is brought to my attention. And I cannot change what's happened in the past but I can make an effort to change it for the future.
If you don't give people the opportunity to make change then it will never happen.
I'll tell you what. When people drop "women" from the "Stop violence" titles, then I'll consider that egalitarianism has truly taken hold and people are ready to accept reality as a whole and not just the parts that reflect their own desires or experiences.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Wow, so on your first date with a guy you already have 3 kids, are married and have spent 15 years together? How does that happen?
Or, you think a guy is going to follow you home, rape you and murder you after the first date? And this happens to you often?
ryan youre becoming irrational.
i never mentioned anything about having 3 kids on the first date. nor did i mention being followed home, raped and murdered. all i said was it would be naive to think that a violent man would be fool enough to show his true colours on a first date.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
violence is a part of life. mankind likes to set himself apart from the other animals becasue he believes he is a higher order mammal, but it is only by societal conditioning that those natural tendencies are held in check.
Right, and the Bonobo females will brutally maim or murder a male who refuses to have sex with them. So we can't derive our own human behavior from the behavior of Bonobos. It might help us to understand ourselves to some degree, but we certainly don't accept that as an example of human behavior. One thing that human females do is congregate and conspire against other members of their species. This can sometimes be more harmful in the long-run than a broken arm from a brawl. Society tries to hold violence in check, but fails miserably at, any human can justify certain acts of violence. But social conspiracies aren't held in check at all by society. They are encouraged if anything, unless of course they happen within certain legal jurisdictions.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I've seen some very good points on here but without a doubt, I can understand this 110%.
Thanks.
Look, I see it this way because I don't believe that my abuser was a useless piece of shit or even that by attacking back that it would change his way of doing things. He'd already been beaten and kicked and he'd learned that way of behaving when dealing with others. So by continuing to behave with him the way he behaved with me it would only reinforce the idea in his mind that this is the way to do it. As far as I could see that was only going to escalate the situation and that's not the outcome I wanted. Ultimately I wanted not to be hit AND I wanted him to learn that hitting wasn't the way to deal with his anger. Because otherwise none of us would have learned anything. There's something even more soul destroying when you realize that a person is inflicting violence on you simply because it's a bad habit of theirs. Like you're the chewed fingernails or the discarded cigarette butt. It makes you feel even less somehow. Least that's how I found it to be anyway. BUT I understand that I am the only person experiencing my reality. So what would apply for me, in my circumstances isn't going to apply to someone else in theirs.
oh yes and in every instance the guy shows his abusive side on the first date. you can not be so naive to think that violent men always show their true colours from the outset.
yeah it's almost as if prince charming waited until after 14 months of dating and 7 months of living together before throwing that first punch to my head. but i was supposed to know that his behavior was going to progress to that level of violence on the first date
i never mentioned anything about having 3 kids on the first date. nor did i mention being followed home, raped and murdered. all i said was it would be naive to think that a violent man would be fool enough to show his true colours on a first date.
Right, but I'm not saying that you make that deliberation on the first date. I'm saying a violent person would need a motive to pursue violence against you. A first date is hardly a good motive, and to be honest, if your first date was with me, I wouldn't even be calling you again, let alone raping you.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Wow, I'll rush out and tell the world that they need to conform to your specific standards of acknowledgment. You've got some control issues man. And again, if people disagree with you they aren't accepting reality as a whole? I'm a man who has never been a victim of domestic violence and has never personally known anyone thats been a victim (to my knowledge) what desire or experience does me being concerned about violence against women reflect? Did it occur to you that I might just have a different view of the world than you do?
I'll tell you what. When people drop "women" from the "Stop violence" titles, then I'll consider that egalitarianism has truly taken hold and people are ready to accept reality as a whole and not just the parts that reflect their own desires or experiences.
Yeah, ok trix well that's great if you can or even if you'd want to.
I have no desire to drag a whole bunch of people into an eye for an eye type situation just for starters and if I could have kicked the living shit out of him I'm not sure I'd have wanted to anyway. The way I see it, he's the one with the violent tendancies and behaviours. It's bad enough he's inflicting that on me, be damned he's going to turn me into him by playing by his rules. I think we all handle these things differently and that's fine. We all have to make the best decisions we can in the circumstances we find ourselves in. My first concern will always be to live, to survive, to minimize the damage if I can and to get away as soon as I possibly can. I don't know if I'd still hold that view if I'd been systematically abused for years and years and years. Possibly a whole other reaction would be my response then. I think the important thing to remember here is that I live in a country where even though this does still happen, I do have some choices. I'd hate to live somewhere that purely by virtue of being born with a c**t I was someone else's property and at the mercy of their will.
I am telling you what I would have done.
What I would have done does not work for all.
This isn't a one size fits all equation.
You asked, I answered.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
Wow, I'll rush out and tell the world that they need to conform to your specific standards of acknowledgment. You've got some control issues man. And again, if people disagree with you they aren't accepting reality as a whole? I'm a man who has never been a victim of domestic violence and has never personally known anyone thats been a victim (to my knowledge) what desire or experience does me being concerned about violence against women reflect? Did it occur to you that I might just have a different view of the world than you do?
Sex. Lots of men run to the defense of women for reasons of sex. I thought that was pretty obvious. Just look at Soulsinging and Dunkman.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Right, you know the cognitive process of every violent man in the entire world. People never commit acts of violence that are random or are compelled by motives that seem illogical to most people. And I thought you were against personal attacks?
Right, but I'm not saying that you make that deliberation on the first date. I'm saying a violent person would need a motive to pursue violence against you. A first date is hardly a good motive, and to be honest, if your first date was with me, I wouldn't even be calling you again, let alone raping you.
I'll tell you what. When people drop "women" from the "Stop violence" titles, then I'll consider that egalitarianism has truly taken hold and people are ready to accept reality as a whole and not just the parts that reflect their own desires or experiences.
So you think the best way to get people to that is by brow beating them with your point of view and attacking based on semantics?
People will relate things to their own experience, we all do it. You've done it yourself here in this thread. AND there's nothing wrong with that.
But if you want me to see your point of view beating me around the head with it isn't going to do it. I'm more likely to turn off completely, dismiss you out of turn and go about my business. If you really want this to change then you need to find ways to discuss it with people, draw their attention to it, educate them to form their own opinions and decide together the best course of action.
It seems to me that dropping "women" from "stop violence" titles is a stupid way of going about it. Wouldn't it make more sense to include another "stop violence" title with "men" in it? That way you are being inclusive? And on that premise more likely to be supported?
Right, you know the cognitive process of every violent man in the entire world. People never commit acts of violence that are random or are compelled by motives that seem illogical to most people. And I thought you were against personal attacks?
It's not a personal attack. I'm saying there is nothing about cate that would motivate me to a second date, let alone rape or living together. Obviously no one ever acts without motivation. If you don't understand that, then you really don't know a thing about human behavior.
There are random acts of violence perpetrated by people known as psychopaths, the occurance of which is rarer than death by a lightning bolt. Just because they are ideal characters for hollywood movies doesn't mean that there are madmen overthrowing civilization.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Right, and the Bonobo females will brutally maim or murder a male who refuses to have sex with them. So we can't derive our own human behavior from the behavior of Bonobos. It might help us to understand ourselves to some degree, but we certainly don't accept that as an example of human behavior. One thing that human females do is congregate and conspire against other members of their species. This can sometimes be more harmful in the long-run than a broken arm from a brawl. Society tries to hold violence in check, but fails miserably at, any human can justify certain acts of violence. But social conspiracies aren't held in check at all by society. They are encouraged if anything, unless of course they happen within certain legal jurisdictions.
who said anything about deriving our own behaviours from bonobos? i was talking animals in general. and i agree strong females will gather a flock around them for conspiratorial purposes. much in the same way i imagine some men get together and decide that gang rape is a fabulous way to kill some time . or the way they beat up someone they deem weaker or different than themselves just to show their alpha tendencies. but that's a little more than psychological conspiracy wouldnt you say? and yes i am aware that females are capable of forming gangs and beating up on unsuspecting victims.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I am telling you what I would have done.
What I would have done does not work for all.
This isn't a one size fits all equation.
You asked, I answered.
Trix I realize that and I wasn't having a go at you. I was simply saying that what works for you would not have worked for me and why.
So we agree that it's not a one size fits all.
Yes, I'm posting on this thread so that my girlfriend who does not read this message board will be motivated to have sex with me. You know that you come across as an arrogant misogynist that thinks that hes omniscient? Why can't people just disagree with you because of an intellectual disagreement? Why do they have to be somehow less logical (ie. inferior). You obviously have some serious self esteem issues.
There are random acts of violence perpetrated by people known as psychopaths, the occurance of which is rarer than death by a lightning bolt. Just because they are ideal characters for hollywood movies doesn't mean that there are madmen overthrowing civilization.
Where did I say that there are madmen overthrowing civilization? Show it to me. I didn't say it was common I said it was possible that someone might be motivated to kill someone after a first date. To use anecdotal evidence (like you seem to enjoy doing) a friend of mine was beat up by someone on the street because he burped loudly (according to the perpetrator). Is that logical? No. is that behavior common? No. But its certainly possible.
It's not a personal attack. I'm saying there is nothing about cate that would motivate me to a second date, let alone rape or living together. Obviously no one ever acts without motivation. If you don't understand that, then you really don't know a thing about human behavior.
There are random acts of violence perpetrated by people known as psychopaths, the occurance of which is rarer than death by a lightning bolt. Just because they are ideal characters for hollywood movies doesn't mean that there are madmen overthrowing civilization.
:mad:
you don't think that women get raped by strangers? I happen to know one.
Right, but I'm not saying that you make that deliberation on the first date. I'm saying a violent person would need a motive to pursue violence against you. A first date is hardly a good motive, and to be honest, if your first date was with me, I wouldn't even be calling you again, let alone raping you.
ooh ouch... an arrow straight to my wounded heart.
and yes ryan thats what im saying as well. you can not in every case be aware that the man youve decided to go on a date with is violent or not. sometimes they bide their time until youre lulled into a sense of false security before they make their move. and as for motive, youre talking bullshit. who says there's any other motive for violence other than power?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
Why would they?
They would have to have a motivation to do so to begin with.
If you get out early, it's not like you have 15 years and 3 children together.
Then for goodness sake start one!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
yep the good ole adrenaline rush a.k.a the old as time itself "fight or flight" reaction of every human
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I have a feeling it will be like the old opera house in Orillia. Sure, lots of boys got raped in those bathrooms, but nobody really cared enough to like, investigate it. Damn boys letting themselves get raped like that.
oh yes and in every instance the guy shows his abusive side on the first date. you can not be so naive to think that violent men always show their true colours from the outset.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I've seen some very good points on here but without a doubt, I can understand this 110%.
That's not a surprise. It's apparent to me. The reason they are prone to violence is because they accept it as a part of life, they might complain about it and wish it weren't so, but they've been preconditioned to accept it as a fact of life. Preconditioned by what? Society and it's awe inspiring ability to make shit up and proliferate it.
Look seriously that's pathetic.
You're assuming what people think on the issue before you've even bothered to ask.
I cannot do anything about what has gone on before unless it is brought to my attention. And I cannot change what's happened in the past but I can make an effort to change it for the future.
If you don't give people the opportunity to make change then it will never happen.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Or, you think a guy is going to follow you home, rape you and murder you after the first date? And this happens to you often?
violence is a part of life. mankind likes to set himself apart from the other animals becasue he believes he is a higher order mammal, but it is only by societal conditioning that those natural tendencies are held in check.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'll tell you what. When people drop "women" from the "Stop violence" titles, then I'll consider that egalitarianism has truly taken hold and people are ready to accept reality as a whole and not just the parts that reflect their own desires or experiences.
ryan youre becoming irrational.
i never mentioned anything about having 3 kids on the first date. nor did i mention being followed home, raped and murdered. all i said was it would be naive to think that a violent man would be fool enough to show his true colours on a first date.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Right, and the Bonobo females will brutally maim or murder a male who refuses to have sex with them. So we can't derive our own human behavior from the behavior of Bonobos. It might help us to understand ourselves to some degree, but we certainly don't accept that as an example of human behavior. One thing that human females do is congregate and conspire against other members of their species. This can sometimes be more harmful in the long-run than a broken arm from a brawl. Society tries to hold violence in check, but fails miserably at, any human can justify certain acts of violence. But social conspiracies aren't held in check at all by society. They are encouraged if anything, unless of course they happen within certain legal jurisdictions.
Thanks.
Look, I see it this way because I don't believe that my abuser was a useless piece of shit or even that by attacking back that it would change his way of doing things. He'd already been beaten and kicked and he'd learned that way of behaving when dealing with others. So by continuing to behave with him the way he behaved with me it would only reinforce the idea in his mind that this is the way to do it. As far as I could see that was only going to escalate the situation and that's not the outcome I wanted. Ultimately I wanted not to be hit AND I wanted him to learn that hitting wasn't the way to deal with his anger. Because otherwise none of us would have learned anything. There's something even more soul destroying when you realize that a person is inflicting violence on you simply because it's a bad habit of theirs. Like you're the chewed fingernails or the discarded cigarette butt. It makes you feel even less somehow. Least that's how I found it to be anyway. BUT I understand that I am the only person experiencing my reality. So what would apply for me, in my circumstances isn't going to apply to someone else in theirs.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
yeah it's almost as if prince charming waited until after 14 months of dating and 7 months of living together before throwing that first punch to my head. but i was supposed to know that his behavior was going to progress to that level of violence on the first date
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Right, but I'm not saying that you make that deliberation on the first date. I'm saying a violent person would need a motive to pursue violence against you. A first date is hardly a good motive, and to be honest, if your first date was with me, I wouldn't even be calling you again, let alone raping you.
What I would have done does not work for all.
This isn't a one size fits all equation.
You asked, I answered.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
Sex. Lots of men run to the defense of women for reasons of sex. I thought that was pretty obvious. Just look at Soulsinging and Dunkman.
So you think the best way to get people to that is by brow beating them with your point of view and attacking based on semantics?
People will relate things to their own experience, we all do it. You've done it yourself here in this thread. AND there's nothing wrong with that.
But if you want me to see your point of view beating me around the head with it isn't going to do it. I'm more likely to turn off completely, dismiss you out of turn and go about my business. If you really want this to change then you need to find ways to discuss it with people, draw their attention to it, educate them to form their own opinions and decide together the best course of action.
It seems to me that dropping "women" from "stop violence" titles is a stupid way of going about it. Wouldn't it make more sense to include another "stop violence" title with "men" in it? That way you are being inclusive? And on that premise more likely to be supported?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
It's not a personal attack. I'm saying there is nothing about cate that would motivate me to a second date, let alone rape or living together. Obviously no one ever acts without motivation. If you don't understand that, then you really don't know a thing about human behavior.
There are random acts of violence perpetrated by people known as psychopaths, the occurance of which is rarer than death by a lightning bolt. Just because they are ideal characters for hollywood movies doesn't mean that there are madmen overthrowing civilization.
who said anything about deriving our own behaviours from bonobos? i was talking animals in general. and i agree strong females will gather a flock around them for conspiratorial purposes. much in the same way i imagine some men get together and decide that gang rape is a fabulous way to kill some time . or the way they beat up someone they deem weaker or different than themselves just to show their alpha tendencies. but that's a little more than psychological conspiracy wouldnt you say? and yes i am aware that females are capable of forming gangs and beating up on unsuspecting victims.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Trix I realize that and I wasn't having a go at you. I was simply saying that what works for you would not have worked for me and why.
So we agree that it's not a one size fits all.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Where did I say that there are madmen overthrowing civilization? Show it to me. I didn't say it was common I said it was possible that someone might be motivated to kill someone after a first date. To use anecdotal evidence (like you seem to enjoy doing) a friend of mine was beat up by someone on the street because he burped loudly (according to the perpetrator). Is that logical? No. is that behavior common? No. But its certainly possible.
:mad:
you don't think that women get raped by strangers? I happen to know one.
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
ooh ouch... an arrow straight to my wounded heart.
and yes ryan thats what im saying as well. you can not in every case be aware that the man youve decided to go on a date with is violent or not. sometimes they bide their time until youre lulled into a sense of false security before they make their move. and as for motive, youre talking bullshit. who says there's any other motive for violence other than power?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say