Palin: God will do the right thing on election day

Cosmo

beachdweller wrote:

hmm, what will she say about God when she loses?

...
OH!!! OH!!! ME!!! ME!!!
...
"I saw the Lord standing beside the altar, and He said, "Smite the capitals so that the thresholds will shake, And break them on the heads of them all! Then I will slay the rest of them with the sword; They will not have a fugitive who will flee, Or a refugee who will escape."
...
GOLD STAR, Please...

Cuntified C

wcsmith wrote:

I'm a Christian. In fact, I'm a United Methodist pastor who is voting for Obama. And Palin's comment is atrocious. God does not vote on election day, the citizens of the US vote on election day. This clearly shows Palin's (a) lack of political gravity - what could she seriously contribute to the ongoing project of American democracy: Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Jackson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton...Palin? Give me a break...and (b) Palin has no theological acumen whatsoever. The theological implications raised by her statement are staggering. Not to mention the practical implications if she were to be the VP, or God forbid, the President.

my .02

A - Fucking - Men!
Well said. I might also add that I never would have thought that a Methodist Pastor would listen to Pearl Jam!

Open

bootlegger10 wrote:

Yeah, Christians are responsible for all your problems.

No just the ones that dont seperate church and state. Why dont they move it Iran, church and state is working out great for the people there. The hippocracy is right there.

saveuplife

Cosmo wrote:

...
I admit... I don't often pray... but, I will pray that you eventually get a clue..

Wow. That is really mature. I disagree with you, so you go there. Impressive.

Cosmo wrote:

...It has nothing to do about YOU. Get over yourself... you are not important in matters of military strategy, economic or foriegn policy of America. It has everything to do about someone who may possibly become one of our leaders... who will decide on the fate of our country. I would care less about Sarah Palin's beliefs... God's will to win the upcoming election... if she were just some woman. But, she is on the ticket that potentially puts in the second most powerful seat on the planet. And I DON'T care what you or anyone else believes. But, I do take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God or Jesus. .

You "take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God and Jesus"? OK. I hope you take issue with Obama. But, probably not. For what reason, I have no clue.

Here's an excerpt of a pilfered prayer by Obama:

"Lord," he wrote on the stationery of the King David Hotel, "protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of Your will."

Please, I'd love to hear your response on that. PLEASE TELL US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. ON OBAMA. Or is it just that Republicans are wrong for praying for guidance? It's just Republicans, right? Ridiculous.

Cosmo wrote:

...Here's the difference... someone in power... let's use your health care insurer and your doctor. You discover a spot on your skin that may or may not be cancer... and your insurance company decides that we should pray that it is not cancer.. and your doctor agrees with them. You would be okay with that? And don't try that second opinion stuff... because how many Presidents and Vice Presidents are there in the U.S? So, what 'effort' do you take? Cut it out yourself? Pray that they are right? What?
....

You aren't making sense. You go to the Doctor (which takes effort) and ask for his recommendations (which takes effort). At the same time you pray that it is not cancer. If it is cancer, you go through treatment (effort) and you pray you will recover. It's simple. Once again, if you think it's odd to pray when you are in a scenario like the one you presented, you are in the .0005 percentile in the world.

Cosmo wrote:

...And just so you do not continue down that little path of prejudice against me... I'll provide a little insight (which I have stated many times before on this message board).
Do I believe in God? Yes, I do. But, I do not believe He is the sometimes cruel and petty diety that the Bible portrays Him to be. The God in the Bible has Human traits (anger, vengence, need, etc... ) because Man created God in his (Man's) image. We have no idea what God looks like or what He does. He just is. God is Life... the energy that powers the universe. Not some Man-like diety that will stand and judge me. He loves me, unconditionally... because He knows I'm fucked up. I also believe that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same... it's just that religion attempts to claim Him solely for themselves. Which allows Man to kill in His name..

Your religious belieft can be debated in another thread.... but just to clarify, Jesus was not a cruel and petty diety and the Bible certainly did not portray him to be. Other than that, I agree that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same IMO. But, that's my opinion.

Cosmo wrote:

...I don't trust the Church because the Church is created by Man... and is Man's institutuion... like Government. I question the Bible because it was written by Man, "inspired by God", not by God, Himself. And... the Bible was in the hands of Men in the Church for many centuries. The Church decided which books to include and which to deny.... basically, what they (the Church) wants us to believe..

Jesus created the church. Regardless, you don't have to believe in the Church or the Bible in order to respect other people believing in it.

J

Cosmo wrote:

...esus? A great guy... love His teachings and try to model my life on this planet based upon those teachings. You know, the Sermon on The Mount stuff. Is He my Saviour? Not, really... he is my teacher. Did He die for my sins? No. I take full responsibility for my sins and would never think about laying my shit on his shoulders. This way, I can't be shit to people and rely on Jesus to accept the blame. I say shit, like calling you a little tool... and it is all me..

...

Why do you need to name call? It doesn't help your argument at all. Actually, it makes you look very immature. And the Mods, as they have stated many times, do not condone that type of behavior.

Cosmo wrote:

...Now... prayer. I have too much respect for God than to ask for piddly bullshit like winning elections or money. I don't care if other people do... that's their gig. I'm saving up my prayers for when they really mean something to me... a friend or family member gets terribly ill... when, I'm terribly ill... when my cats are dying... you know, the things that matter... well, matter to me..

You can't even see that YOU are being judgemental here? YOU are saying you don't care if other people pray for certain things, but then you are saying that you do if they are elected officials.

You are not being consistent at all.

Cosmo wrote:

...nd Thank God on a daily basis? He already knows how I feel... He is not the needy, clingy, insecure girlfriend that needs to hear it all the time.
And as I have stated many times before.. I don't care if someone is Christian or Jewish or Muslim and has faith and hope. I believe Faith and Hope are good... but, they make terrible military strategies, economic and foriegn policies.

Faith and Hope are not military strategies or policies. So, I have no clue what you are talking about. You just aren't making any logical sense. This bable is all over the place.

heartdesire

saveuplife ... break it down to the simplest form.

God is all loving and benevolent. We are here to learn, not use God to our or anyone's advantage. Peace on earth good will to and towards man.

For instance, take Bush praying to God about going to war. Do you really think God advocates war? Do you think God advocates the Democrats or the Republicans? Do you think God is Political ...

saveuplife

heart&desire wrote:

saveuplife ... break it down to the simplest form.

God is all loving and benevolent. We are here to learn, not use God to our or anyone's advantage. Peace on earth good will to and towards man.

For instance, take Bush praying to God about going to war. Do you really think God advocates war? Do you think God advocates the Democrats or the Republicans? Do you think God is Political ...

Could you please break down Obama's self-proclaimed reliance on God when making tough decisions? Please..... answer.

As for your question, no... I do not think God advocates war. That said, I think God advocates helping your fellow man. So, there may be certain cases, like a "just war".... WWII provides an example, where it's hard to decipher the correct answer. Prayer helps here IMO.

I do not think God advocates a political party, nor have I ever said so. No, I do not think God is "political". That said, I DO think God is on the side of what is "right" or "moral". Do I always KNOW what that is for certain? No. But, can I make educated guess? Yes. Just like you can. If you have ever used the terms "right" and "wrong", you do the same.

wcsmith

Cuntified C wrote:

A - Fucking - Men!
Well said. I might also add that I never would have thought that a Methodist Pastor would listen to Pearl Jam!

As I've told several folks over the course of my ministry, I've not always been a preacher...

I also listen to:

Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, TOOL, Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Black Sabbath, Outkast, The Black Crowes, The Black Keys, and many, many others...

heartdesire

saveuplife wrote:

Could you please break down Obama's self-proclaimed reliance on God when making tough decisions? Please..... answer.

As for your question, no... I do not think God advocates war. That said, I think God advocates helping your fellow man. So, there may be certain cases, like a "just war".... WWII provides an example, where it's hard to decipher the correct answer. Prayer helps here IMO.

I do not think God advocates a political party, nor have I ever said so. No, I do not think God is "political". That said, I DO think God is on the side of what is "right" or "moral". Do I always KNOW what that is for certain? No. But, can I make educated guess? Yes. Just like you can. If you have ever used the terms "right" and "wrong", you do the same.

God is God ... many seek council from God and/or Jesus, Allah, Buddha ...

Politicians seek council from God or who they deem their creator. In breaking down Bush, Palin or Obama ... each seek council, though do they earnestly take responsibility for their decisions and actions? It isn't God's decision, it is the individuals decision based on their understanding of God, life, morals, etc.

God isn't on a side. God is God ... all loving benevolent.

The catch is right and wrong ... if the best decision is made for the situation than right and wrong isn't necessary. And there in is the catch ... maybe think in terms of what is the best decision for the situation at hand, what will lead us to peace, to a healthy economy, to a balanced loving existence?

saveuplife

heart&desire wrote:

God is God ... many seek council from God and/or Jesus, Allah, Buddha ...

Politicians seek council from God or who they deem their creator. In breaking down Bush, Palin or Obama ... each seek council, though do they earnestly take responsibility for their decisions and actions? It isn't God's decision, it is the individuals decision based on their understanding of God, life, morals, etc.

God isn't on a side. God is God ... all loving benevolent.

The catch is right and wrong ... if the best decision is made for the situation than right and wrong isn't necessary. And there in is the catch ... maybe think in terms of what is the best decision for the situation at hand, what will lead us to peace, to a healthy economy, to a balanced loving existence?

I think each takes responsibility for their decisions and actions. But, according to your friend Cosmo, they should not be seeking council of a higher power at all. You should probably talk to him about that.

As I said, I don't think God's on a side.

The last paragraph is not intelligible.

heartdesire

saveuplife wrote:

I think each takes responsibility for their decisions and actions. But, according to your friend Cosmo, they should not be seeking council of a higher power at all. You should probably talk to him about that.

As I said, I don't think God's on a side.

The last paragraph is not intelligible.

Sorry you can't understand the last paragraph, that's your issue.

If you don't think God is on a side than what's your problem? I can't interpret for Cosmo, nor you.

I feel the whole God Politics thing has been taken to a level of issuing God as being on a side. That is where is the problem seems to be.

Have a good day saveuplife.

saveuplife

heart&desire wrote:

Sorry you can't understand the last paragraph, that's your issue. .

No, it's an issue of bad writing.

heart&desire wrote:

If you don't think God is on a side than what's your problem? I can't interpret for Cosmo, nor you.

I feel the whole God Politics thing has been taken to a level of issuing God as being on a side. That is where is the problem seems to be.

Have a good day saveuplife.

I have a problem with the idea behind this thread. That Palin was saying something that she was not. People are saying "she implied" or I think "she meant". The reality is she said what she said. Any extention of what she said to something else, is just that "an extention", and therefore subjective. What she said, in and of itself, was not bad at all.

heartdesire

saveuplife wrote:

No, it's an issue of bad writing.




I have a problem with the idea behind this thread. That Palin was saying something that she was not. People are saying "she implied" or I think "she meant". The reality is she said what she said. Any extention of what she said to something else, is just that "an extention", and therefore subjective. What she said, in and of itself, was not bad at all.

What is it that you don't understand? I'm not rewriting it, so be it.

I agree with you on your interpretation of what Palin said.

What I don't agree with his how the Republicans "seem" to use God as their ally, or when any fundamentalist type individual does so. I think and feel it is hypocritical. It's like using God as an advertising tool.

If any one of them prays great (Repubs, Dems, Independents etc). Though, they don't have to use it to gain popularity or credentials.

I sometimes pray on decisions I make at work. I don't share this with my coworkers. It's no one's business. I take responsibility for my decisions and actions, and do the best I can. I am learning. I make mistakes, and take responsibility for them.

I also don't make up lies and call people terrorists when they are not. That's a whole other thread ...

Cosmo

saveuplife wrote:

Wow. That is really mature. I disagree with you, so you go there. Impressive.




You "take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God and Jesus"? OK. I hope you take issue with Obama. But, probably not. For what reason, I have no clue.

Here's an excerpt of a pilfered prayer by Obama:

"Lord," he wrote on the stationery of the King David Hotel, "protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of Your will."

Please, I'd love to hear your response on that. PLEASE TELL US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. ON OBAMA. Or is it just that Republicans are wrong for praying for guidance? It's just Republicans, right? Ridiculous.




You aren't making sense. You go to the Doctor (which takes effort) and ask for his recommendations (which takes effort). At the same time you pray that it is not cancer. If it is cancer, you go through treatment (effort) and you pray you will recover. It's simple. Once again, if you think it's odd to pray when you are in a scenario like the one you presented, you are in the .0005 percentile in the world.




Your religious belieft can be debated in another thread.... but just to clarify, Jesus was not a cruel and petty diety and the Bible certainly did not portray him to be. Other than that, I agree that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same IMO. But, that's my opinion.



Jesus created the church. Regardless, you don't have to believe in the Church or the Bible in order to respect other people believing in it.

J
...

Why do you need to name call? It doesn't help your argument at all. Actually, it makes you look very immature. And the Mods, as they have stated many times, do not condone that type of behavior.



You can't even see that YOU are being judgemental here? YOU are saying you don't care if other people pray for certain things, but then you are saying that you do if they are elected officials.

You are not being consistent at all.




Faith and Hope are not military strategies or policies. So, I have no clue what you are talking about. You just aren't making any logical sense. This bable is all over the place.

...
Can someone, please... direct me to an adult I can talk to.
Thank you.

decides2dream

JSBE wrote:

In an interview posted online Wednesday, Sarah Palin told Dr. James Dobson of “Focus on the Family” that she is confident God will do “the right thing for America” on Nov. 4.

Dobson asked the vice presidential hopeful if she is concerned about John McCain’s sagging poll numbers, but Palin stressed that she was “not discouraged at all.”

“To me, it motivates us, makes us work that much harder,” she told the influential Christian leader, whose radio show reaches tens of millions of listeners daily. “And it also strengthens my faith because I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”



http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/22/palin-god-will-do-the-right-thing-on-election-day/

audio:

http://www.citizenlink.org/clspecialalert/A000008476.cfm

i hope american voters do the 'right thing' and keep religion, god...out of our government.....which most definitely means keeping mccain/palin out of office. i think even if there is a god(s)....he/she would agree......no part of it! seperation of church and state, whatever happened to that noble concept?

deadnothingbetter

Cosmo wrote:

...
I admit... I don't often pray... but, I will pray that you eventually get a clue.
It has nothing to do about YOU. Get over yourself... you are not important in matters of military strategy, economic or foriegn policy of America. It has everything to do about someone who may possibly become one of our leaders... who will decide on the fate of our country. I would care less about Sarah Palin's beliefs... God's will to win the upcoming election... if she were just some woman. But, she is on the ticket that potentially puts in the second most powerful seat on the planet. And I DON'T care what you or anyone else believes. But, I do take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God or Jesus.
Case in point: George W. Bush consulting a 'Higher Father' regarding the decision to go to war in Iraq. He could have asked his own DAD, who successfully built a coalition to address the problem of waging a war in the complex Middle East. Instead, he asked God (or Jesus). Did God take us into Iraq? Or was it Jesus? No, it was Bush... our leader.
Here's the difference... someone in power... let's use your health care insurer and your doctor. You discover a spot on your skin that may or may not be cancer... and your insurance company decides that we should pray that it is not cancer.. and your doctor agrees with them. You would be okay with that? And don't try that second opinion stuff... because how many Presidents and Vice Presidents are there in the U.S? So, what 'effort' do you take? Cut it out yourself? Pray that they are right? What?
...
And just so you do not continue down that little path of prejudice against me... I'll provide a little insight (which I have stated many times before on this message board).
Do I believe in God? Yes, I do. But, I do not believe He is the sometimes cruel and petty diety that the Bible portrays Him to be. The God in the Bible has Human traits (anger, vengence, need, etc... ) because Man created God in his (Man's) image. We have no idea what God looks like or what He does. He just is. God is Life... the energy that powers the universe. Not some Man-like diety that will stand and judge me. He loves me, unconditionally... because He knows I'm fucked up. I also believe that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same... it's just that religion attempts to claim Him solely for themselves. Which allows Man to kill in His name.
I don't trust the Church because the Church is created by Man... and is Man's institutuion... like Government. I question the Bible because it was written by Man, "inspired by God", not by God, Himself. And... the Bible was in the hands of Men in the Church for many centuries. The Church decided which books to include and which to deny.... basically, what they (the Church) wants us to believe.
Jesus? A great guy... love His teachings and try to model my life on this planet based upon those teachings. You know, the Sermon on The Mount stuff. Is He my Saviour? Not, really... he is my teacher. Did He die for my sins? No. I take full responsibility for my sins and would never think about laying my shit on his shoulders. This way, I can't be shit to people and rely on Jesus to accept the blame. I say shit, like calling you a little tool... and it is all me.
...
Now... prayer. I have too much respect for God than to ask for piddly bullshit like winning elections or money. I don't care if other people do... that's their gig. I'm saving up my prayers for when they really mean something to me... a friend or family member gets terribly ill... when, I'm terribly ill... when my cats are dying... you know, the things that matter... well, matter to me.
And Thank God on a daily basis? He already knows how I feel... He is not the needy, clingy, insecure girlfriend that needs to hear it all the time.
And as I have stated many times before.. I don't care if someone is Christian or Jewish or Muslim and has faith and hope. I believe Faith and Hope are good... but, they make terrible military strategies, economic and foriegn policies.

your comments would sound flawless if you didn't stick your views of the bible in there. on the other hand, i'm almost always on your side... but then you stick your views regarding the bible. and that i completely disagree... i'm sure you're familiar with me.

deadnothingbetter

saveuplife wrote:

Wow. That is really mature. I disagree with you, so you go there. Impressive.




You "take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God and Jesus"? OK. I hope you take issue with Obama. But, probably not. For what reason, I have no clue.

Here's an excerpt of a pilfered prayer by Obama:

"Lord," he wrote on the stationery of the King David Hotel, "protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of Your will."

Please, I'd love to hear your response on that. PLEASE TELL US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. ON OBAMA. Or is it just that Republicans are wrong for praying for guidance? It's just Republicans, right? Ridiculous.




You aren't making sense. You go to the Doctor (which takes effort) and ask for his recommendations (which takes effort). At the same time you pray that it is not cancer. If it is cancer, you go through treatment (effort) and you pray you will recover. It's simple. Once again, if you think it's odd to pray when you are in a scenario like the one you presented, you are in the .0005 percentile in the world.




Your religious belieft can be debated in another thread.... but just to clarify, Jesus was not a cruel and petty diety and the Bible certainly did not portray him to be. Other than that, I agree that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same IMO. But, that's my opinion.



Jesus created the church. Regardless, you don't have to believe in the Church or the Bible in order to respect other people believing in it.

J
...

Why do you need to name call? It doesn't help your argument at all. Actually, it makes you look very immature. And the Mods, as they have stated many times, do not condone that type of behavior.



You can't even see that YOU are being judgemental here? YOU are saying you don't care if other people pray for certain things, but then you are saying that you do if they are elected officials.

You are not being consistent at all.




Faith and Hope are not military strategies or policies. So, I have no clue what you are talking about. You just aren't making any logical sense. This bable is all over the place.

i think you and cosmo are lost in translation here.

Cosmo

deadnothingbetter wrote:

your comments would sound flawless if you didn't stick your views of the bible in there. on the other hand, i'm almost always on your side... but then you stick your views regarding the bible. and that i completely disagree... i'm sure you're familiar with me.

...
I like our (yours and mine) discussions on Religion and the Bible. I see and understand your points of view and truely respect them. You have always been respectful and gracious in stating your positions and you have presented many valid points. I sincerely respect your manner and appreciate your demeanor.
I have my own views on Religion (not just Christianity) and the Bible (since I admit, I am not fully aware of the Quoran and the Torah). I also know that the Bible has many beautiful passages... but so does the works of Shakespeare, Mozart and Pearl Jam. All written by Man, sometimes (sometimes not) inspired by God. But inspired by some THING... be it Truth, Love or Beauty itself.
I only question the Bible because I question the Men who made the decisions when canonizing it, specifically Bishops in 180 A.D. The Bible was also in the hands of the Church for many Centuries. The Common Man did not possess personal copies and up to the time of Gutenberg in the 1500s... and many years after his invention of the offset printer, was it possible for the Comman Man to possess his own copy. Prior to that, it was read to the Common Man by the Church... who presented their interpretations based upon outlined Church Doctrine.
So... I don't question or doubt or mistrust God... I question, doubt and mistrust Man... specifically Men who preside over us from seats of power.
In today's world... I would like to see ALL of the Holy Texts... including the texts that were reviewed and rejected as heresy... in their entirety. That way, I can make my own, personal, interpretations... instead of having them delivered to me... by another Man.
I do not mean to cause anyone to follow me... believe me. These are MY personal views that are prescribed only for me. I believe the relationship with God is personal, I don't care which path towards God anyone chooses... including the choice not look for God. I will bid you well on your journey. I'm taking my own path.
All I want is the truth... so I and decide for myself and set out on my own path towards God. That's all.

heartdesire

Cosmo wrote:

...
I have my own views on Religion (not just Christianity) and the Bible (since I admit, I am not fully aware of the Quoran and the Torah). I also know that the Bible has many beautiful passages... but so does the works of Shakespeare, Mozart and Pearl Jam. All written by Man, sometimes (sometimes not) inspired by God. But inspired by some THING... be it Truth, Love or Beauty itself.
I only question the Bible because I question the Men who made the decisions when canonizing it, specifically Bishops in 180 A.D. The Bible was also in the hands of the Church for many Centuries. The Common Man did not possess personal copies and up to the time of Gutenberg in the 1500s... and many years after his invention of the offset printer, was it possible for the Comman Man to possess his own copy. Prior to that, it was read to the Common Man by the Church... who presented their interpretations based upon outlined Church Doctrine.
So... I don't question or doubt or mistrust God... I question, doubt and mistrust Man... specifically Men who preside over us from seats of power.
In today's world... I would like to see ALL of the Holy Texts... including the texts that were reviewed and rejected as heresy... in their entirety. That way, I can make my own, personal, interpretations... instead of having them delivered to me... by another Man.
I do not mean to cause anyone to follow me... believe me. These are MY personal views that are prescribed only for me. I believe the relationship with God is personal, I don't care which path towards God anyone chooses... including the choice not look for God. I will bid you well on your journey. I'm taking my own path.
All I want is the truth... so I and decide for myself and set out on my own path towards God. That's all.

I say "Amen" to this. It is refreshing to read your words Cosmo as this is how I have felt for a very long time. Cheers to you on your journey. I hope your path is filled with all kinds of awesome, and many truths enjoyed along the way.

Nothingman54

Im so sick of thses people using God to get ahead in thses races. "God told Bush to invade Iraq" BULLSHIT!

Cosmo

Nothingman54 wrote:

Im so sick of thses people using God to get ahead in thses races. "God told Bush to invade Iraq" BULLSHIT!

...
Actually... Bush asked God for guidence on whether we should go on with the invasion of Iraq. Apparently, God's guidence was affirming, hence, the War in Iraq.
Speaking about the run up and decision to wage war with Iraq:
"Did Mr. Bush ask his father for any advice? “I asked the president about this. And President Bush said, ‘Well, no,’ and then he got defensive about it,” says Woodward. “Then he said something that really struck me. He said of his father, ‘He is the wrong father to appeal to for advice. The wrong father to go to, to appeal to in terms of strength.’ And then he said, ‘There's a higher Father that I appeal to.’"
Beyond not asking his father about going to war, Woodward was startled to learn that the president did not ask key cabinet members either.
”The president, in making the decision to go to war, did not ask his secretary of defense for an overall recommendation, did not ask his secretary of state, Colin Powell, for his recommendation,” says Woodward.
But the president did ask Rice, his national security adviser, and Karen Hughes, his political communications adviser. Woodward says both supported going to war. And in the run-up to war, Woodward reveals the CIA hired the leaders of a Muslim religious sect at odds with Saddam, but nonetheless with numerous members highly placed in Saddam's security services. The CIA's code name for them: the Rock Stars. "
ref. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/main612067.shtml