In an interview posted online Wednesday, Sarah Palin told Dr. James Dobson of “Focus on the Family” that she is confident God will do “the right thing for America” on Nov. 4.
Dobson asked the vice presidential hopeful if she is concerned about John McCain’s sagging poll numbers, but Palin stressed that she was “not discouraged at all.”
“To me, it motivates us, makes us work that much harder,” she told the influential Christian leader, whose radio show reaches tens of millions of listeners daily. “And it also strengthens my faith because I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”
Besides the G.W "I talk to God" similarities, it's such an open ended statement as well. If Obama wins it's "God's will". If McCain wins it's "It's the will of God". I think it's the most diplomatic thing I've heard her say. And thats scarey.
So if Obama wins, can we assume once and for all that God is a democrat?
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Shes obviously saying that simply because shes on a christian show, she wants fanatical christians to think that shes a christianity oriented lady, and therefore the best choice. I for one know she doesnt have the first overstanding of God.
The almighty anointing of Gawd will rain down and bless those voting machines with his holy blinding love....ayyy-mennn .... "the fire of Jesus is raging in Wasilla O lord"..."the fire is in our bones O lord"..."this world has nothing for me"..."this world has nothing for me".... "I must follow him...."
*insert head thrashing and bobbing, arms raised in the air, and gibbersh goofy chanting here*
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
...
Regarding "Respect mine. Respect hers. She believes that God knows best."
That's all good and fine... as it relates to your (or Sarah Palin's) personal life. But, if she is in an office whose decisions affect everyone... then it becomes our business.
Think about it... in this current financial crisis... would you want our leaders to sit back and pray it all works out... believing that God will fix our economy?
Please, don't be pretentious. IF she's elected, yes, her decisions will affect U.S. citizens. What do you mean by IT becomes our business? What is IT? Her belief in God? No, that is between her and God. Look, the truth is, a lot of atheists believe in "chance" and "karma". In a way, it's the same thing. I don't understand why you feel the need to scrutinize someone sayin that they believe that God will do the right thing. It's exactly like saying, chances are someone will win. She didn't specify who. Saying chances are someone will win, is the same thing. She just said she thinks God will do the right thing..... which is pretty damn obvious, considering He's God.
Since you asked for my opinion, in this financial crisis I'd prefer someone who asks for assistance from a higher power to someone who thinks they know it all and don't need assistance. I think looking for answers and pondeing them, is always a positive. If one prays for a solution, they are most likely pondering what they are praying for. Praying to God is NOT, nor ever will be a bad thing.... there's absolutely no need to patronize and act as though prayer has no place in political life. I belive you are in the very very thin minority, if you truly believe that. As a matter of fact, I know you are in the minority.
Also... think about it...
When was the last time God was on the side of the World's Super Power (Biblical Times)? Egypt? How about Rome?
So, why would God bless the wealthiest, most powerful nation in favor of the down trodden and oppressed?
How exactly would WE know who's side God's on? Are we God? Personally, I think only God knows this type of information. That said, I think one is certainly entitled to have an opinion on what is right and what is wrong.
Anyway, I'm betting (not sure, so don't take offense) that you are atheist. Why do you care what Christians believe? If it makes them happy, leave them alone and stop acting as though your way is better. That's supposedly why atheists typically get annoyed with Christians... personally, I understand that. So, if you are an atheist, don't be a hypocrite.
Please, don't be pretentious. IF she's elected, yes, her decisions will affect U.S. citizens. What do you mean by IT becomes our business? What is IT? Her belief in God? No, that is between her and God. Look, the truth is, a lot of atheists believe in "chance" and "karma". In a way, it's the same thing. I don't understand why you feel the need to scrutinize someone sayin that they believe that God will do the right thing. It's exactly like saying, chances are someone will win. She didn't specify who. Saying chances are someone will win, is the same thing. She just said she thinks God will do the right thing..... which is pretty damn obvious, considering He's God.
Since you asked for my opinion, in this financial crisis I'd prefer someone who asks for assistance from a higher power to someone who thinks they know it all and don't need assistance. I think looking for answers and pondeing them, is always a positive. If one prays for a solution, they are most likely pondering what they are praying for. Praying to God is NOT, nor ever will be a bad thing.... there's absolutely no need to patronize and act as though prayer has no place in political life. I belive you are in the very very thin minority, if you truly believe that. As a matter of fact, I know you are in the minority.
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IT being HER DECISIONS as our leader that is based upon God's Will that will have an affect on all of us. You don't have a problem with that? Letting your leaders based upon their belief that God will help us find our way... instead of doing the goddamn job themselves... like they are supposed to do?
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And if we pray to God... He will bail us out of this mess? Right. Let's pray to God for our 401Ks to rebound. He's got better things to do.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
i said if someone wants to believe in whatever god they want to that it was a.o.k. with me...right? i think that is me respecting your beliefs and her beliefs...or am i missing something?
and how can you say that what she said isn't meant as literal as opposed to what i think was her implication? i said "it comes across as" which would be my thought that that is what she was implying. it is my opinion. please respect that. i'll admit that she didn't specifically state that god would vote for mccain/palin, but it is of my opinion that that is what she was implying.
and to be honest, i don't think that she would say "well, god wanted obama/biden to win and i'm ok with that." i just don't get that vibe from her. again, just my opinion.
"Bottom line: Try your best and see what God wants. If it's not meant to be after you've done your best, then it's just not meant to be."
this is just contradicting to me and again, no offense to the god worshipping people here, but why does god need to be brought into the equation? if you did your best and it is not meant to be, then it just won't happen regardless of what god wants. i mean, if you did your worst and it happened, then all the credit would go to god?
i'm pretty sure either way i look like a a-hole here, but i just want to make this clear: i'm all for believing in god and religion and all that, but it is just not how i was raised or how i live my life. much like any other 'polarizing' issue, i'm perfectly ok with someone accepting the opposite of my beliefs.
OK. I just don't get why something like this is scrutinized. It's like believing in chance or karma and people freaking out about that.
Secondly, you said "it came across as" above. You said that you are speaking your opinion. Well, if you are JUST speaking for yourself, you should probably say "it came across as such and such to ME".
Why does God need to be brought into the equation? Because we believe in God in the sense that someone who is atheist would believe in "chance" or "karma". Meaning, that if you do your best you increase your odds, but if you also pray, you even increase your "chances" more or increase your "karma". Try thinking of it that way.
You don't look like an ahole at all. I actually respect your point of view a hell of a lot more than others on here who look upon Christians condecendingly. I am Christian, actually a Catholic. I respect atheists sincerely. I don't agree with them. But, I respect that they are entitled to their beliefs. I know there are a bunch of Christians who aren't respectful. But, that does not mean atheists need to behave in the same way. It's refreshing when one does not.
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IT being HER DECISIONS as our leader that is based upon God's Will that will have an affect on all of us. You don't have a problem with that? Letting your leaders based upon their belief that God will help us find our way... instead of doing the goddamn job themselves... like they are supposed to do?
...
And if we pray to God... He will bail us out of this mess? Right. Let's pray to God for our 401Ks to rebound. He's got better things to do.
First, you are being extremely pretentious.
I don't have even the slightest problem with someone believing that a higer power has sway over events in their life. Most Americans, and actually most people in the world, believe that same way. You, if you do not believe that way, are actually in the slim minority.
Just because you pray to God or just because you ask God for assistance, does not mean you don't make an effort yourself. You know that. This shows you are not being fairminded. According to what you wrote you are acting as though everyone, including myself, pray to God when confronted with a problem and simply walk away. The truth is we pray to God AND we work on the problem. Stop bashing faith in God.
Yeah, Christians are responsible for all your problems.
hmmmm.....not necessarily all problems....I meant if the rapture were to occur then the Christians win the holy wars by proving their religion was the correct religion, then they are swept off to heaven leaving the rest of us heathens behind on a planet that no longer fights holy wars...
instead we'll fight wars over the number of licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop:)
Saveuplife, considering her past statements, how divisive some of her language has been, and how she framed her response, it's reasonable for someone to take from that that she believed that "God's will" would lead to a McCain/Palin win. If someone read this statement as such, you honestly don't see how a Christian Obama supporter would find such a suggestion offensive? Even if Palin does believe that, what happened to her respect for others' religious views, and how those religious views may have helped lead them to supporting Obama?
Saveuplife, considering her past statements, how divisive some of her language has been, and how she framed her response, it's reasonable for someone to take from that that she believed that "God's will" would lead to a McCain/Palin win. If someone read this statement as such, you honestly don't see how a Christian Obama supporter would find such a suggestion offensive? Even if Palin does believe that, what happened to her respect for others' religious views, and how those religious views may have helped lead them to supporting Obama?
If you can't admit that you are making an assumption on "what she meant" than I can help you. You are making an assumption, a complete leap. You can not TELL that she meant what you are saying from what she said. Only here would people read into one sentence this much.
If you can't admit that you are making an assumption on "what she meant" than I can help you. You are making an assumption, a complete leap. You can not TELL that she meant what you are saying from what she said. Only here would people read into one sentence this much.
I'm sorry, I don't buy it for a second. Go Phils.
saveuplife ... why only here? that is a leap in and of itself, pure assumption.
If you can't admit that you are making an assumption on "what she meant" than I can help you. You are making an assumption, a complete leap. You can not TELL that she meant what you are saying from what she said. Only here would people read into one sentence this much.
I'm sorry, I don't buy it for a second. Go Phils.
I reach the same conclusion from the opposite way. If you take this candidate and what she has said in the past, and view her statements, and don't see how that someone would reasonably come up with that conclusion, than I cannot help you.
"Only here?" I think considering I've watched two weeks of Joe the Plumber, three hours of Palin's wardrobe, and about 150 hours of lipsticks on pigs, I think there are plenty of people in the country who read into this stuff this much.
I remember during the Gibson interview where she was asked about her church comments about the Iraq War and God, and she said that she doesn't really know if God's on our side but just hopes that we and what we're doing is on God's side.
So she's just wishful-thinking, but I guess we'll see which side God is on with less than 2 weeks to go now.
I don't have even the slightest problem with someone believing that a higer power has sway over events in their life. Most Americans, and actually most people in the world, believe that same way. You, if you do not believe that way, are actually in the slim minority.
Just because you pray to God or just because you ask God for assistance, does not mean you don't make an effort yourself. You know that. This shows you are not being fairminded. According to what you wrote you are acting as though everyone, including myself, pray to God when confronted with a problem and simply walk away. The truth is we pray to God AND we work on the problem. Stop bashing faith in God.
...
I admit... I don't often pray... but, I will pray that you eventually get a clue.
It has nothing to do about YOU. Get over yourself... you are not important in matters of military strategy, economic or foriegn policy of America. It has everything to do about someone who may possibly become one of our leaders... who will decide on the fate of our country. I would care less about Sarah Palin's beliefs... God's will to win the upcoming election... if she were just some woman. But, she is on the ticket that potentially puts in the second most powerful seat on the planet. And I DON'T care what you or anyone else believes. But, I do take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God or Jesus.
Case in point: George W. Bush consulting a 'Higher Father' regarding the decision to go to war in Iraq. He could have asked his own DAD, who successfully built a coalition to address the problem of waging a war in the complex Middle East. Instead, he asked God (or Jesus). Did God take us into Iraq? Or was it Jesus? No, it was Bush... our leader.
Here's the difference... someone in power... let's use your health care insurer and your doctor. You discover a spot on your skin that may or may not be cancer... and your insurance company decides that we should pray that it is not cancer.. and your doctor agrees with them. You would be okay with that? And don't try that second opinion stuff... because how many Presidents and Vice Presidents are there in the U.S? So, what 'effort' do you take? Cut it out yourself? Pray that they are right? What?
...
And just so you do not continue down that little path of prejudice against me... I'll provide a little insight (which I have stated many times before on this message board).
Do I believe in God? Yes, I do. But, I do not believe He is the sometimes cruel and petty diety that the Bible portrays Him to be. The God in the Bible has Human traits (anger, vengence, need, etc... ) because Man created God in his (Man's) image. We have no idea what God looks like or what He does. He just is. God is Life... the energy that powers the universe. Not some Man-like diety that will stand and judge me. He loves me, unconditionally... because He knows I'm fucked up. I also believe that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same... it's just that religion attempts to claim Him solely for themselves. Which allows Man to kill in His name.
I don't trust the Church because the Church is created by Man... and is Man's institutuion... like Government. I question the Bible because it was written by Man, "inspired by God", not by God, Himself. And... the Bible was in the hands of Men in the Church for many centuries. The Church decided which books to include and which to deny.... basically, what they (the Church) wants us to believe.
Jesus? A great guy... love His teachings and try to model my life on this planet based upon those teachings. You know, the Sermon on The Mount stuff. Is He my Saviour? Not, really... he is my teacher. Did He die for my sins? No. I take full responsibility for my sins and would never think about laying my shit on his shoulders. This way, I can't be shit to people and rely on Jesus to accept the blame. I say shit, like calling you a little tool... and it is all me.
...
Now... prayer. I have too much respect for God than to ask for piddly bullshit like winning elections or money. I don't care if other people do... that's their gig. I'm saving up my prayers for when they really mean something to me... a friend or family member gets terribly ill... when, I'm terribly ill... when my cats are dying... you know, the things that matter... well, matter to me.
And Thank God on a daily basis? He already knows how I feel... He is not the needy, clingy, insecure girlfriend that needs to hear it all the time.
And as I have stated many times before.. I don't care if someone is Christian or Jewish or Muslim and has faith and hope. I believe Faith and Hope are good... but, they make terrible military strategies, economic and foriegn policies.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I admit... I don't often pray... but, I will pray that you eventually get a clue.
It has nothing to do about YOU. Get over yourself... you are not important in matters of military strategy, economic or foriegn policy of America. It has everything to do about someone who may possibly become one of our leaders... who will decide on the fate of our country. I would care less about Sarah Palin's beliefs... God's will to win the upcoming election... if she were just some woman. But, she is on the ticket that potentially puts in the second most powerful seat on the planet. And I DON'T care what you or anyone else believes. But, I do take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God or Jesus.
Case in point: George W. Bush consulting a 'Higher Father' regarding the decision to go to war in Iraq. He could have asked his own DAD, who successfully built a coalition to address the problem of waging a war in the complex Middle East. Instead, he asked God (or Jesus). Did God take us into Iraq? Or was it Jesus? No, it was Bush... our leader.
Here's the difference... someone in power... let's use your health care insurer and your doctor. You discover a spot on your skin that may or may not be cancer... and your insurance company decides that we should pray that it is not cancer.. and your doctor agrees with them. You would be okay with that? And don't try that second opinion stuff... because how many Presidents and Vice Presidents are there in the U.S? So, what 'effort' do you take? Cut it out yourself? Pray that they are right? What?
...
And just so you do not continue down that little path of prejudice against me... I'll provide a little insight (which I have stated many times before on this message board).
Do I believe in God? Yes, I do. But, I do not believe He is the sometimes cruel and petty diety that the Bible portrays Him to be. The God in the Bible has Human traits (anger, vengence, need, etc... ) because Man created God in his (Man's) image. We have no idea what God looks like or what He does. He just is. God is Life... the energy that powers the universe. Not some Man-like diety that will stand and judge me. He loves me, unconditionally... because He knows I'm fucked up. I also believe that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same... it's just that religion attempts to claim Him solely for themselves. Which allows Man to kill in His name.
I don't trust the Church because the Church is created by Man... and is Man's institutuion... like Government. I question the Bible because it was written by Man, "inspired by God", not by God, Himself. And... the Bible was in the hands of Men in the Church for many centuries. The Church decided which books to include and which to deny.... basically, what they (the Church) wants us to believe.
Jesus? A great guy... love His teachings and try to model my life on this planet based upon those teachings. You know, the Sermon on The Mount stuff. Is He my Saviour? Not, really... he is my teacher. Did He die for my sins? No. I take full responsibility for my sins and would never think about laying my shit on his shoulders. This way, I can't be shit to people and rely on Jesus to accept the blame. I say shit, like calling you a little tool... and it is all me.
...
Now... prayer. I have too much respect for God than to ask for piddly bullshit like winning elections or money. I don't care if other people do... that's their gig. I'm saving up my prayers for when they really mean something to me... a friend or family member gets terribly ill... when, I'm terribly ill... when my cats are dying... you know, the things that matter... well, matter to me.
And Thank God on a daily basis? He already knows how I feel... He is not the needy, clingy, insecure girlfriend that needs to hear it all the time.
And as I have stated many times before.. I don't care if someone is Christian or Jewish or Muslim and has faith and hope. I believe Faith and Hope are good... but, they make terrible military strategies, economic and foriegn policies.
In an interview posted online Wednesday, Sarah Palin told Dr. James Dobson of “Focus on the Family” that she is confident God will do “the right thing for America” on Nov. 4.
Dobson asked the vice presidential hopeful if she is concerned about John McCain’s sagging poll numbers, but Palin stressed that she was “not discouraged at all.”
“To me, it motivates us, makes us work that much harder,” she told the influential Christian leader, whose radio show reaches tens of millions of listeners daily. “And it also strengthens my faith because I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”
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OH!!! OH!!! ME!!! ME!!!
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"I saw the Lord standing beside the altar, and He said, "Smite the capitals so that the thresholds will shake, And break them on the heads of them all! Then I will slay the rest of them with the sword; They will not have a fugitive who will flee, Or a refugee who will escape."
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GOLD STAR, Please...
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm a Christian. In fact, I'm a United Methodist pastor who is voting for Obama. And Palin's comment is atrocious. God does not vote on election day, the citizens of the US vote on election day. This clearly shows Palin's (a) lack of political gravity - what could she seriously contribute to the ongoing project of American democracy: Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Jackson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton...Palin? Give me a break...and (b) Palin has no theological acumen whatsoever. The theological implications raised by her statement are staggering. Not to mention the practical implications if she were to be the VP, or God forbid, the President.
my .02
A - Fucking - Men!
Well said. I might also add that I never would have thought that a Methodist Pastor would listen to Pearl Jam!
Yeah, Christians are responsible for all your problems.
No just the ones that dont seperate church and state. Why dont they move it Iran, church and state is working out great for the people there. The hippocracy is right there.
...It has nothing to do about YOU. Get over yourself... you are not important in matters of military strategy, economic or foriegn policy of America. It has everything to do about someone who may possibly become one of our leaders... who will decide on the fate of our country. I would care less about Sarah Palin's beliefs... God's will to win the upcoming election... if she were just some woman. But, she is on the ticket that potentially puts in the second most powerful seat on the planet. And I DON'T care what you or anyone else believes. But, I do take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God or Jesus. .
You "take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God and Jesus"? OK. I hope you take issue with Obama. But, probably not. For what reason, I have no clue.
Here's an excerpt of a pilfered prayer by Obama:
"Lord," he wrote on the stationery of the King David Hotel, "protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of Your will."
Please, I'd love to hear your response on that. PLEASE TELL US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. ON OBAMA. Or is it just that Republicans are wrong for praying for guidance? It's just Republicans, right? Ridiculous.
...Here's the difference... someone in power... let's use your health care insurer and your doctor. You discover a spot on your skin that may or may not be cancer... and your insurance company decides that we should pray that it is not cancer.. and your doctor agrees with them. You would be okay with that? And don't try that second opinion stuff... because how many Presidents and Vice Presidents are there in the U.S? So, what 'effort' do you take? Cut it out yourself? Pray that they are right? What?
....
You aren't making sense. You go to the Doctor (which takes effort) and ask for his recommendations (which takes effort). At the same time you pray that it is not cancer. If it is cancer, you go through treatment (effort) and you pray you will recover. It's simple. Once again, if you think it's odd to pray when you are in a scenario like the one you presented, you are in the .0005 percentile in the world.
...And just so you do not continue down that little path of prejudice against me... I'll provide a little insight (which I have stated many times before on this message board).
Do I believe in God? Yes, I do. But, I do not believe He is the sometimes cruel and petty diety that the Bible portrays Him to be. The God in the Bible has Human traits (anger, vengence, need, etc... ) because Man created God in his (Man's) image. We have no idea what God looks like or what He does. He just is. God is Life... the energy that powers the universe. Not some Man-like diety that will stand and judge me. He loves me, unconditionally... because He knows I'm fucked up. I also believe that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same... it's just that religion attempts to claim Him solely for themselves. Which allows Man to kill in His name..
Your religious belieft can be debated in another thread.... but just to clarify, Jesus was not a cruel and petty diety and the Bible certainly did not portray him to be. Other than that, I agree that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same IMO. But, that's my opinion.
...I don't trust the Church because the Church is created by Man... and is Man's institutuion... like Government. I question the Bible because it was written by Man, "inspired by God", not by God, Himself. And... the Bible was in the hands of Men in the Church for many centuries. The Church decided which books to include and which to deny.... basically, what they (the Church) wants us to believe..
Jesus created the church. Regardless, you don't have to believe in the Church or the Bible in order to respect other people believing in it.
...esus? A great guy... love His teachings and try to model my life on this planet based upon those teachings. You know, the Sermon on The Mount stuff. Is He my Saviour? Not, really... he is my teacher. Did He die for my sins? No. I take full responsibility for my sins and would never think about laying my shit on his shoulders. This way, I can't be shit to people and rely on Jesus to accept the blame. I say shit, like calling you a little tool... and it is all me..
...
Why do you need to name call? It doesn't help your argument at all. Actually, it makes you look very immature. And the Mods, as they have stated many times, do not condone that type of behavior.
...Now... prayer. I have too much respect for God than to ask for piddly bullshit like winning elections or money. I don't care if other people do... that's their gig. I'm saving up my prayers for when they really mean something to me... a friend or family member gets terribly ill... when, I'm terribly ill... when my cats are dying... you know, the things that matter... well, matter to me..
You can't even see that YOU are being judgemental here? YOU are saying you don't care if other people pray for certain things, but then you are saying that you do if they are elected officials.
...nd Thank God on a daily basis? He already knows how I feel... He is not the needy, clingy, insecure girlfriend that needs to hear it all the time.
And as I have stated many times before.. I don't care if someone is Christian or Jewish or Muslim and has faith and hope. I believe Faith and Hope are good... but, they make terrible military strategies, economic and foriegn policies.
Faith and Hope are not military strategies or policies. So, I have no clue what you are talking about. You just aren't making any logical sense. This bable is all over the place.
saveuplife ... break it down to the simplest form.
God is all loving and benevolent. We are here to learn, not use God to our or anyone's advantage. Peace on earth good will to and towards man.
For instance, take Bush praying to God about going to war. Do you really think God advocates war? Do you think God advocates the Democrats or the Republicans? Do you think God is Political ...
saveuplife ... break it down to the simplest form.
God is all loving and benevolent. We are here to learn, not use God to our or anyone's advantage. Peace on earth good will to and towards man.
For instance, take Bush praying to God about going to war. Do you really think God advocates war? Do you think God advocates the Democrats or the Republicans? Do you think God is Political ...
Could you please break down Obama's self-proclaimed reliance on God when making tough decisions? Please..... answer.
As for your question, no... I do not think God advocates war. That said, I think God advocates helping your fellow man. So, there may be certain cases, like a "just war".... WWII provides an example, where it's hard to decipher the correct answer. Prayer helps here IMO.
I do not think God advocates a political party, nor have I ever said so. No, I do not think God is "political". That said, I DO think God is on the side of what is "right" or "moral". Do I always KNOW what that is for certain? No. But, can I make educated guess? Yes. Just like you can. If you have ever used the terms "right" and "wrong", you do the same.
Could you please break down Obama's self-proclaimed reliance on God when making tough decisions? Please..... answer.
As for your question, no... I do not think God advocates war. That said, I think God advocates helping your fellow man. So, there may be certain cases, like a "just war".... WWII provides an example, where it's hard to decipher the correct answer. Prayer helps here IMO.
I do not think God advocates a political party, nor have I ever said so. No, I do not think God is "political". That said, I DO think God is on the side of what is "right" or "moral". Do I always KNOW what that is for certain? No. But, can I make educated guess? Yes. Just like you can. If you have ever used the terms "right" and "wrong", you do the same.
God is God ... many seek council from God and/or Jesus, Allah, Buddha ...
Politicians seek council from God or who they deem their creator. In breaking down Bush, Palin or Obama ... each seek council, though do they earnestly take responsibility for their decisions and actions? It isn't God's decision, it is the individuals decision based on their understanding of God, life, morals, etc.
God isn't on a side. God is God ... all loving benevolent.
The catch is right and wrong ... if the best decision is made for the situation than right and wrong isn't necessary. And there in is the catch ... maybe think in terms of what is the best decision for the situation at hand, what will lead us to peace, to a healthy economy, to a balanced loving existence?
God is God ... many seek council from God and/or Jesus, Allah, Buddha ...
Politicians seek council from God or who they deem their creator. In breaking down Bush, Palin or Obama ... each seek council, though do they earnestly take responsibility for their decisions and actions? It isn't God's decision, it is the individuals decision based on their understanding of God, life, morals, etc.
God isn't on a side. God is God ... all loving benevolent.
The catch is right and wrong ... if the best decision is made for the situation than right and wrong isn't necessary. And there in is the catch ... maybe think in terms of what is the best decision for the situation at hand, what will lead us to peace, to a healthy economy, to a balanced loving existence?
I think each takes responsibility for their decisions and actions. But, according to your friend Cosmo, they should not be seeking council of a higher power at all. You should probably talk to him about that.
I think each takes responsibility for their decisions and actions. But, according to your friend Cosmo, they should not be seeking council of a higher power at all. You should probably talk to him about that.
As I said, I don't think God's on a side.
The last paragraph is not intelligible.
Sorry you can't understand the last paragraph, that's your issue.
If you don't think God is on a side than what's your problem? I can't interpret for Cosmo, nor you.
I feel the whole God Politics thing has been taken to a level of issuing God as being on a side. That is where is the problem seems to be.
Comments
Besides the G.W "I talk to God" similarities, it's such an open ended statement as well. If Obama wins it's "God's will". If McCain wins it's "It's the will of God". I think it's the most diplomatic thing I've heard her say. And thats scarey.
Just a wolf in sheeps clothing
"Its a secret to everybody."
*insert head thrashing and bobbing, arms raised in the air, and gibbersh goofy chanting here*
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Please, don't be pretentious. IF she's elected, yes, her decisions will affect U.S. citizens. What do you mean by IT becomes our business? What is IT? Her belief in God? No, that is between her and God. Look, the truth is, a lot of atheists believe in "chance" and "karma". In a way, it's the same thing. I don't understand why you feel the need to scrutinize someone sayin that they believe that God will do the right thing. It's exactly like saying, chances are someone will win. She didn't specify who. Saying chances are someone will win, is the same thing. She just said she thinks God will do the right thing..... which is pretty damn obvious, considering He's God.
Since you asked for my opinion, in this financial crisis I'd prefer someone who asks for assistance from a higher power to someone who thinks they know it all and don't need assistance. I think looking for answers and pondeing them, is always a positive. If one prays for a solution, they are most likely pondering what they are praying for. Praying to God is NOT, nor ever will be a bad thing.... there's absolutely no need to patronize and act as though prayer has no place in political life. I belive you are in the very very thin minority, if you truly believe that. As a matter of fact, I know you are in the minority.
How exactly would WE know who's side God's on? Are we God? Personally, I think only God knows this type of information. That said, I think one is certainly entitled to have an opinion on what is right and what is wrong.
Anyway, I'm betting (not sure, so don't take offense) that you are atheist. Why do you care what Christians believe? If it makes them happy, leave them alone and stop acting as though your way is better. That's supposedly why atheists typically get annoyed with Christians... personally, I understand that. So, if you are an atheist, don't be a hypocrite.
IT being HER DECISIONS as our leader that is based upon God's Will that will have an affect on all of us. You don't have a problem with that? Letting your leaders based upon their belief that God will help us find our way... instead of doing the goddamn job themselves... like they are supposed to do?
...
And if we pray to God... He will bail us out of this mess? Right. Let's pray to God for our 401Ks to rebound. He's got better things to do.
Hail, Hail!!!
Yeah, Christians are responsible for all your problems.
OK. I just don't get why something like this is scrutinized. It's like believing in chance or karma and people freaking out about that.
Secondly, you said "it came across as" above. You said that you are speaking your opinion. Well, if you are JUST speaking for yourself, you should probably say "it came across as such and such to ME".
Why does God need to be brought into the equation? Because we believe in God in the sense that someone who is atheist would believe in "chance" or "karma". Meaning, that if you do your best you increase your odds, but if you also pray, you even increase your "chances" more or increase your "karma". Try thinking of it that way.
You don't look like an ahole at all. I actually respect your point of view a hell of a lot more than others on here who look upon Christians condecendingly. I am Christian, actually a Catholic. I respect atheists sincerely. I don't agree with them. But, I respect that they are entitled to their beliefs. I know there are a bunch of Christians who aren't respectful. But, that does not mean atheists need to behave in the same way. It's refreshing when one does not.
First, you are being extremely pretentious.
I don't have even the slightest problem with someone believing that a higer power has sway over events in their life. Most Americans, and actually most people in the world, believe that same way. You, if you do not believe that way, are actually in the slim minority.
Just because you pray to God or just because you ask God for assistance, does not mean you don't make an effort yourself. You know that. This shows you are not being fairminded. According to what you wrote you are acting as though everyone, including myself, pray to God when confronted with a problem and simply walk away. The truth is we pray to God AND we work on the problem. Stop bashing faith in God.
hmmmm.....not necessarily all problems....I meant if the rapture were to occur then the Christians win the holy wars by proving their religion was the correct religion, then they are swept off to heaven leaving the rest of us heathens behind on a planet that no longer fights holy wars...
instead we'll fight wars over the number of licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop:)
If you can't admit that you are making an assumption on "what she meant" than I can help you. You are making an assumption, a complete leap. You can not TELL that she meant what you are saying from what she said. Only here would people read into one sentence this much.
I'm sorry, I don't buy it for a second. Go Phils.
saveuplife ... why only here? that is a leap in and of itself, pure assumption.
I reach the same conclusion from the opposite way. If you take this candidate and what she has said in the past, and view her statements, and don't see how that someone would reasonably come up with that conclusion, than I cannot help you.
"Only here?" I think considering I've watched two weeks of Joe the Plumber, three hours of Palin's wardrobe, and about 150 hours of lipsticks on pigs, I think there are plenty of people in the country who read into this stuff this much.
deny that she doesn't feel like god is on her side...you know what she meant
don't be so coy roy
So she's just wishful-thinking, but I guess we'll see which side God is on with less than 2 weeks to go now.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
I admit... I don't often pray... but, I will pray that you eventually get a clue.
It has nothing to do about YOU. Get over yourself... you are not important in matters of military strategy, economic or foriegn policy of America. It has everything to do about someone who may possibly become one of our leaders... who will decide on the fate of our country. I would care less about Sarah Palin's beliefs... God's will to win the upcoming election... if she were just some woman. But, she is on the ticket that potentially puts in the second most powerful seat on the planet. And I DON'T care what you or anyone else believes. But, I do take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God or Jesus.
Case in point: George W. Bush consulting a 'Higher Father' regarding the decision to go to war in Iraq. He could have asked his own DAD, who successfully built a coalition to address the problem of waging a war in the complex Middle East. Instead, he asked God (or Jesus). Did God take us into Iraq? Or was it Jesus? No, it was Bush... our leader.
Here's the difference... someone in power... let's use your health care insurer and your doctor. You discover a spot on your skin that may or may not be cancer... and your insurance company decides that we should pray that it is not cancer.. and your doctor agrees with them. You would be okay with that? And don't try that second opinion stuff... because how many Presidents and Vice Presidents are there in the U.S? So, what 'effort' do you take? Cut it out yourself? Pray that they are right? What?
...
And just so you do not continue down that little path of prejudice against me... I'll provide a little insight (which I have stated many times before on this message board).
Do I believe in God? Yes, I do. But, I do not believe He is the sometimes cruel and petty diety that the Bible portrays Him to be. The God in the Bible has Human traits (anger, vengence, need, etc... ) because Man created God in his (Man's) image. We have no idea what God looks like or what He does. He just is. God is Life... the energy that powers the universe. Not some Man-like diety that will stand and judge me. He loves me, unconditionally... because He knows I'm fucked up. I also believe that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same... it's just that religion attempts to claim Him solely for themselves. Which allows Man to kill in His name.
I don't trust the Church because the Church is created by Man... and is Man's institutuion... like Government. I question the Bible because it was written by Man, "inspired by God", not by God, Himself. And... the Bible was in the hands of Men in the Church for many centuries. The Church decided which books to include and which to deny.... basically, what they (the Church) wants us to believe.
Jesus? A great guy... love His teachings and try to model my life on this planet based upon those teachings. You know, the Sermon on The Mount stuff. Is He my Saviour? Not, really... he is my teacher. Did He die for my sins? No. I take full responsibility for my sins and would never think about laying my shit on his shoulders. This way, I can't be shit to people and rely on Jesus to accept the blame. I say shit, like calling you a little tool... and it is all me.
...
Now... prayer. I have too much respect for God than to ask for piddly bullshit like winning elections or money. I don't care if other people do... that's their gig. I'm saving up my prayers for when they really mean something to me... a friend or family member gets terribly ill... when, I'm terribly ill... when my cats are dying... you know, the things that matter... well, matter to me.
And Thank God on a daily basis? He already knows how I feel... He is not the needy, clingy, insecure girlfriend that needs to hear it all the time.
And as I have stated many times before.. I don't care if someone is Christian or Jewish or Muslim and has faith and hope. I believe Faith and Hope are good... but, they make terrible military strategies, economic and foriegn policies.
Hail, Hail!!!
Well said Cosmo ... well said. Thank you.
hmm, what will she say about God when she loses?
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
OH!!! OH!!! ME!!! ME!!!
...
"I saw the Lord standing beside the altar, and He said, "Smite the capitals so that the thresholds will shake, And break them on the heads of them all! Then I will slay the rest of them with the sword; They will not have a fugitive who will flee, Or a refugee who will escape."
...
GOLD STAR, Please...
Hail, Hail!!!
A - Fucking - Men!
Well said. I might also add that I never would have thought that a Methodist Pastor would listen to Pearl Jam!
No just the ones that dont seperate church and state. Why dont they move it Iran, church and state is working out great for the people there. The hippocracy is right there.
Wow. That is really mature. I disagree with you, so you go there. Impressive.
You "take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God and Jesus"? OK. I hope you take issue with Obama. But, probably not. For what reason, I have no clue.
Here's an excerpt of a pilfered prayer by Obama:
"Lord," he wrote on the stationery of the King David Hotel, "protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of Your will."
Please, I'd love to hear your response on that. PLEASE TELL US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. ON OBAMA. Or is it just that Republicans are wrong for praying for guidance? It's just Republicans, right? Ridiculous.
You aren't making sense. You go to the Doctor (which takes effort) and ask for his recommendations (which takes effort). At the same time you pray that it is not cancer. If it is cancer, you go through treatment (effort) and you pray you will recover. It's simple. Once again, if you think it's odd to pray when you are in a scenario like the one you presented, you are in the .0005 percentile in the world.
Your religious belieft can be debated in another thread.... but just to clarify, Jesus was not a cruel and petty diety and the Bible certainly did not portray him to be. Other than that, I agree that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same IMO. But, that's my opinion.
Jesus created the church. Regardless, you don't have to believe in the Church or the Bible in order to respect other people believing in it.
J ...
Why do you need to name call? It doesn't help your argument at all. Actually, it makes you look very immature. And the Mods, as they have stated many times, do not condone that type of behavior.
You can't even see that YOU are being judgemental here? YOU are saying you don't care if other people pray for certain things, but then you are saying that you do if they are elected officials.
You are not being consistent at all.
Faith and Hope are not military strategies or policies. So, I have no clue what you are talking about. You just aren't making any logical sense. This bable is all over the place.
God is all loving and benevolent. We are here to learn, not use God to our or anyone's advantage. Peace on earth good will to and towards man.
For instance, take Bush praying to God about going to war. Do you really think God advocates war? Do you think God advocates the Democrats or the Republicans? Do you think God is Political ...
Could you please break down Obama's self-proclaimed reliance on God when making tough decisions? Please..... answer.
As for your question, no... I do not think God advocates war. That said, I think God advocates helping your fellow man. So, there may be certain cases, like a "just war".... WWII provides an example, where it's hard to decipher the correct answer. Prayer helps here IMO.
I do not think God advocates a political party, nor have I ever said so. No, I do not think God is "political". That said, I DO think God is on the side of what is "right" or "moral". Do I always KNOW what that is for certain? No. But, can I make educated guess? Yes. Just like you can. If you have ever used the terms "right" and "wrong", you do the same.
As I've told several folks over the course of my ministry, I've not always been a preacher...
I also listen to:
Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, TOOL, Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Black Sabbath, Outkast, The Black Crowes, The Black Keys, and many, many others...
God is God ... many seek council from God and/or Jesus, Allah, Buddha ...
Politicians seek council from God or who they deem their creator. In breaking down Bush, Palin or Obama ... each seek council, though do they earnestly take responsibility for their decisions and actions? It isn't God's decision, it is the individuals decision based on their understanding of God, life, morals, etc.
God isn't on a side. God is God ... all loving benevolent.
The catch is right and wrong ... if the best decision is made for the situation than right and wrong isn't necessary. And there in is the catch ... maybe think in terms of what is the best decision for the situation at hand, what will lead us to peace, to a healthy economy, to a balanced loving existence?
I think each takes responsibility for their decisions and actions. But, according to your friend Cosmo, they should not be seeking council of a higher power at all. You should probably talk to him about that.
As I said, I don't think God's on a side.
The last paragraph is not intelligible.
Sorry you can't understand the last paragraph, that's your issue.
If you don't think God is on a side than what's your problem? I can't interpret for Cosmo, nor you.
I feel the whole God Politics thing has been taken to a level of issuing God as being on a side. That is where is the problem seems to be.
Have a good day saveuplife.