If you don't think God is on a side than what's your problem? I can't interpret for Cosmo, nor you.
I feel the whole God Politics thing has been taken to a level of issuing God as being on a side. That is where is the problem seems to be.
Have a good day saveuplife.
I have a problem with the idea behind this thread. That Palin was saying something that she was not. People are saying "she implied" or I think "she meant". The reality is she said what she said. Any extention of what she said to something else, is just that "an extention", and therefore subjective. What she said, in and of itself, was not bad at all.
I have a problem with the idea behind this thread. That Palin was saying something that she was not. People are saying "she implied" or I think "she meant". The reality is she said what she said. Any extention of what she said to something else, is just that "an extention", and therefore subjective. What she said, in and of itself, was not bad at all.
What is it that you don't understand? I'm not rewriting it, so be it.
I agree with you on your interpretation of what Palin said.
What I don't agree with his how the Republicans "seem" to use God as their ally, or when any fundamentalist type individual does so. I think and feel it is hypocritical. It's like using God as an advertising tool.
If any one of them prays great (Repubs, Dems, Independents etc). Though, they don't have to use it to gain popularity or credentials.
I sometimes pray on decisions I make at work. I don't share this with my coworkers. It's no one's business. I take responsibility for my decisions and actions, and do the best I can. I am learning. I make mistakes, and take responsibility for them.
I also don't make up lies and call people terrorists when they are not. That's a whole other thread ...
Wow. That is really mature. I disagree with you, so you go there. Impressive.
You "take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God and Jesus"? OK. I hope you take issue with Obama. But, probably not. For what reason, I have no clue.
Here's an excerpt of a pilfered prayer by Obama:
"Lord," he wrote on the stationery of the King David Hotel, "protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of Your will."
Please, I'd love to hear your response on that. PLEASE TELL US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. ON OBAMA. Or is it just that Republicans are wrong for praying for guidance? It's just Republicans, right? Ridiculous.
You aren't making sense. You go to the Doctor (which takes effort) and ask for his recommendations (which takes effort). At the same time you pray that it is not cancer. If it is cancer, you go through treatment (effort) and you pray you will recover. It's simple. Once again, if you think it's odd to pray when you are in a scenario like the one you presented, you are in the .0005 percentile in the world.
Your religious belieft can be debated in another thread.... but just to clarify, Jesus was not a cruel and petty diety and the Bible certainly did not portray him to be. Other than that, I agree that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same IMO. But, that's my opinion.
Jesus created the church. Regardless, you don't have to believe in the Church or the Bible in order to respect other people believing in it.
J
...
Why do you need to name call? It doesn't help your argument at all. Actually, it makes you look very immature. And the Mods, as they have stated many times, do not condone that type of behavior.
You can't even see that YOU are being judgemental here? YOU are saying you don't care if other people pray for certain things, but then you are saying that you do if they are elected officials.
You are not being consistent at all.
Faith and Hope are not military strategies or policies. So, I have no clue what you are talking about. You just aren't making any logical sense. This bable is all over the place.
...
Can someone, please... direct me to an adult I can talk to.
Thank you.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
In an interview posted online Wednesday, Sarah Palin told Dr. James Dobson of “Focus on the Family” that she is confident God will do “the right thing for America” on Nov. 4.
Dobson asked the vice presidential hopeful if she is concerned about John McCain’s sagging poll numbers, but Palin stressed that she was “not discouraged at all.”
“To me, it motivates us, makes us work that much harder,” she told the influential Christian leader, whose radio show reaches tens of millions of listeners daily. “And it also strengthens my faith because I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”
i hope american voters do the 'right thing' and keep religion, god...out of our government.....which most definitely means keeping mccain/palin out of office. i think even if there is a god(s)....he/she would agree......no part of it! seperation of church and state, whatever happened to that noble concept?
...
I admit... I don't often pray... but, I will pray that you eventually get a clue.
It has nothing to do about YOU. Get over yourself... you are not important in matters of military strategy, economic or foriegn policy of America. It has everything to do about someone who may possibly become one of our leaders... who will decide on the fate of our country. I would care less about Sarah Palin's beliefs... God's will to win the upcoming election... if she were just some woman. But, she is on the ticket that potentially puts in the second most powerful seat on the planet. And I DON'T care what you or anyone else believes. But, I do take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God or Jesus.
Case in point: George W. Bush consulting a 'Higher Father' regarding the decision to go to war in Iraq. He could have asked his own DAD, who successfully built a coalition to address the problem of waging a war in the complex Middle East. Instead, he asked God (or Jesus). Did God take us into Iraq? Or was it Jesus? No, it was Bush... our leader.
Here's the difference... someone in power... let's use your health care insurer and your doctor. You discover a spot on your skin that may or may not be cancer... and your insurance company decides that we should pray that it is not cancer.. and your doctor agrees with them. You would be okay with that? And don't try that second opinion stuff... because how many Presidents and Vice Presidents are there in the U.S? So, what 'effort' do you take? Cut it out yourself? Pray that they are right? What?
...
And just so you do not continue down that little path of prejudice against me... I'll provide a little insight (which I have stated many times before on this message board).
Do I believe in God? Yes, I do. But, I do not believe He is the sometimes cruel and petty diety that the Bible portrays Him to be. The God in the Bible has Human traits (anger, vengence, need, etc... ) because Man created God in his (Man's) image. We have no idea what God looks like or what He does. He just is. God is Life... the energy that powers the universe. Not some Man-like diety that will stand and judge me. He loves me, unconditionally... because He knows I'm fucked up. I also believe that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same... it's just that religion attempts to claim Him solely for themselves. Which allows Man to kill in His name.
I don't trust the Church because the Church is created by Man... and is Man's institutuion... like Government. I question the Bible because it was written by Man, "inspired by God", not by God, Himself. And... the Bible was in the hands of Men in the Church for many centuries. The Church decided which books to include and which to deny.... basically, what they (the Church) wants us to believe.
Jesus? A great guy... love His teachings and try to model my life on this planet based upon those teachings. You know, the Sermon on The Mount stuff. Is He my Saviour? Not, really... he is my teacher. Did He die for my sins? No. I take full responsibility for my sins and would never think about laying my shit on his shoulders. This way, I can't be shit to people and rely on Jesus to accept the blame. I say shit, like calling you a little tool... and it is all me.
...
Now... prayer. I have too much respect for God than to ask for piddly bullshit like winning elections or money. I don't care if other people do... that's their gig. I'm saving up my prayers for when they really mean something to me... a friend or family member gets terribly ill... when, I'm terribly ill... when my cats are dying... you know, the things that matter... well, matter to me.
And Thank God on a daily basis? He already knows how I feel... He is not the needy, clingy, insecure girlfriend that needs to hear it all the time.
And as I have stated many times before.. I don't care if someone is Christian or Jewish or Muslim and has faith and hope. I believe Faith and Hope are good... but, they make terrible military strategies, economic and foriegn policies.
your comments would sound flawless if you didn't stick your views of the bible in there. on the other hand, i'm almost always on your side... but then you stick your views regarding the bible. and that i completely disagree... i'm sure you're familiar with me.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Wow. That is really mature. I disagree with you, so you go there. Impressive.
You "take issue when our leaders base their decisions on God and Jesus"? OK. I hope you take issue with Obama. But, probably not. For what reason, I have no clue.
Here's an excerpt of a pilfered prayer by Obama:
"Lord," he wrote on the stationery of the King David Hotel, "protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of Your will."
Please, I'd love to hear your response on that. PLEASE TELL US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. ON OBAMA. Or is it just that Republicans are wrong for praying for guidance? It's just Republicans, right? Ridiculous.
You aren't making sense. You go to the Doctor (which takes effort) and ask for his recommendations (which takes effort). At the same time you pray that it is not cancer. If it is cancer, you go through treatment (effort) and you pray you will recover. It's simple. Once again, if you think it's odd to pray when you are in a scenario like the one you presented, you are in the .0005 percentile in the world.
Your religious belieft can be debated in another thread.... but just to clarify, Jesus was not a cruel and petty diety and the Bible certainly did not portray him to be. Other than that, I agree that God, Jehovah and Allah are one in the same IMO. But, that's my opinion.
Jesus created the church. Regardless, you don't have to believe in the Church or the Bible in order to respect other people believing in it.
J
...
Why do you need to name call? It doesn't help your argument at all. Actually, it makes you look very immature. And the Mods, as they have stated many times, do not condone that type of behavior.
You can't even see that YOU are being judgemental here? YOU are saying you don't care if other people pray for certain things, but then you are saying that you do if they are elected officials.
You are not being consistent at all.
Faith and Hope are not military strategies or policies. So, I have no clue what you are talking about. You just aren't making any logical sense. This bable is all over the place.
i think you and cosmo are lost in translation here.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
your comments would sound flawless if you didn't stick your views of the bible in there. on the other hand, i'm almost always on your side... but then you stick your views regarding the bible. and that i completely disagree... i'm sure you're familiar with me.
...
I like our (yours and mine) discussions on Religion and the Bible. I see and understand your points of view and truely respect them. You have always been respectful and gracious in stating your positions and you have presented many valid points. I sincerely respect your manner and appreciate your demeanor.
I have my own views on Religion (not just Christianity) and the Bible (since I admit, I am not fully aware of the Quoran and the Torah). I also know that the Bible has many beautiful passages... but so does the works of Shakespeare, Mozart and Pearl Jam. All written by Man, sometimes (sometimes not) inspired by God. But inspired by some THING... be it Truth, Love or Beauty itself.
I only question the Bible because I question the Men who made the decisions when canonizing it, specifically Bishops in 180 A.D. The Bible was also in the hands of the Church for many Centuries. The Common Man did not possess personal copies and up to the time of Gutenberg in the 1500s... and many years after his invention of the offset printer, was it possible for the Comman Man to possess his own copy. Prior to that, it was read to the Common Man by the Church... who presented their interpretations based upon outlined Church Doctrine.
So... I don't question or doubt or mistrust God... I question, doubt and mistrust Man... specifically Men who preside over us from seats of power.
In today's world... I would like to see ALL of the Holy Texts... including the texts that were reviewed and rejected as heresy... in their entirety. That way, I can make my own, personal, interpretations... instead of having them delivered to me... by another Man.
I do not mean to cause anyone to follow me... believe me. These are MY personal views that are prescribed only for me. I believe the relationship with God is personal, I don't care which path towards God anyone chooses... including the choice not look for God. I will bid you well on your journey. I'm taking my own path.
All I want is the truth... so I and decide for myself and set out on my own path towards God. That's all.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I have my own views on Religion (not just Christianity) and the Bible (since I admit, I am not fully aware of the Quoran and the Torah). I also know that the Bible has many beautiful passages... but so does the works of Shakespeare, Mozart and Pearl Jam. All written by Man, sometimes (sometimes not) inspired by God. But inspired by some THING... be it Truth, Love or Beauty itself.
I only question the Bible because I question the Men who made the decisions when canonizing it, specifically Bishops in 180 A.D. The Bible was also in the hands of the Church for many Centuries. The Common Man did not possess personal copies and up to the time of Gutenberg in the 1500s... and many years after his invention of the offset printer, was it possible for the Comman Man to possess his own copy. Prior to that, it was read to the Common Man by the Church... who presented their interpretations based upon outlined Church Doctrine.
So... I don't question or doubt or mistrust God... I question, doubt and mistrust Man... specifically Men who preside over us from seats of power.
In today's world... I would like to see ALL of the Holy Texts... including the texts that were reviewed and rejected as heresy... in their entirety. That way, I can make my own, personal, interpretations... instead of having them delivered to me... by another Man.
I do not mean to cause anyone to follow me... believe me. These are MY personal views that are prescribed only for me. I believe the relationship with God is personal, I don't care which path towards God anyone chooses... including the choice not look for God. I will bid you well on your journey. I'm taking my own path.
All I want is the truth... so I and decide for myself and set out on my own path towards God. That's all.
I say "Amen" to this. It is refreshing to read your words Cosmo as this is how I have felt for a very long time. Cheers to you on your journey. I hope your path is filled with all kinds of awesome, and many truths enjoyed along the way.
Im so sick of thses people using God to get ahead in thses races. "God told Bush to invade Iraq" BULLSHIT!
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Actually... Bush asked God for guidence on whether we should go on with the invasion of Iraq. Apparently, God's guidence was affirming, hence, the War in Iraq.
Speaking about the run up and decision to wage war with Iraq:
"Did Mr. Bush ask his father for any advice? “I asked the president about this. And President Bush said, ‘Well, no,’ and then he got defensive about it,” says Woodward. “Then he said something that really struck me. He said of his father, ‘He is the wrong father to appeal to for advice. The wrong father to go to, to appeal to in terms of strength.’ And then he said, ‘There's a higher Father that I appeal to.’"
Beyond not asking his father about going to war, Woodward was startled to learn that the president did not ask key cabinet members either.
”The president, in making the decision to go to war, did not ask his secretary of defense for an overall recommendation, did not ask his secretary of state, Colin Powell, for his recommendation,” says Woodward.
But the president did ask Rice, his national security adviser, and Karen Hughes, his political communications adviser. Woodward says both supported going to war. And in the run-up to war, Woodward reveals the CIA hired the leaders of a Muslim religious sect at odds with Saddam, but nonetheless with numerous members highly placed in Saddam's security services. The CIA's code name for them: the Rock Stars. "
ref. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/main612067.shtml
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Actually... Bush asked God for guidence on whether we should go on with the invasion of Iraq. Apparently, God's guidence was affirming, hence, the War in Iraq.
Speaking about the run up and decision to wage war with Iraq:
"Did Mr. Bush ask his father for any advice? “I asked the president about this. And President Bush said, ‘Well, no,’ and then he got defensive about it,” says Woodward. “Then he said something that really struck me. He said of his father, ‘He is the wrong father to appeal to for advice. The wrong father to go to, to appeal to in terms of strength.’ And then he said, ‘There's a higher Father that I appeal to.’"
Beyond not asking his father about going to war, Woodward was startled to learn that the president did not ask key cabinet members either.
”The president, in making the decision to go to war, did not ask his secretary of defense for an overall recommendation, did not ask his secretary of state, Colin Powell, for his recommendation,” says Woodward.
But the president did ask Rice, his national security adviser, and Karen Hughes, his political communications adviser. Woodward says both supported going to war. And in the run-up to war, Woodward reveals the CIA hired the leaders of a Muslim religious sect at odds with Saddam, but nonetheless with numerous members highly placed in Saddam's security services. The CIA's code name for them: the Rock Stars. "
ref. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/main612067.shtml
Yea, but it's OK for Obama to ask God for guidance. It's just not OK for a Republican to do it.
Yea, but it's OK for Obama to ask God for guidance. It's just not OK for a Republican to do it.
Consistency is tough sometimes.
No one is saying it is not ok. It's the manner in which it is done, which you are having a hard time understanding.
Bush is under scrutiny because he started a "senseless" war that he said was directed by God. If and when Obama gets in office and creates such a snafu
he will be under said scrutiny as well.
Yea, but it's OK for Obama to ask God for guidance. It's just not OK for a Republican to do it.
Consistency is tough sometimes.
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Boy... you just don't get it... do you?
If Obama asks for guidence from God to go to war... that would be okay with you? Because it wouldn't be okay with me. Prayer is not a good form of military strategy in my book.
Guidence from God is not a problem when dealing with personal matters... such as when a parent dies... or to help you decide if getting married is the right choice. But, when it comes to public matters, especially when the lives of other people hang in the balance, it is best to consult experts in the field. That is my assessment. I don't know why I have to keep explaining this to you over and over and over and over again.
You leave me to believe that there is no other alternative but the fact that you just don't get it.
...
Now... where's that fuckng IGNORE button? I really could use it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I like our (yours and mine) discussions on Religion and the Bible. I see and understand your points of view and truely respect them. You have always been respectful and gracious in stating your positions and you have presented many valid points. I sincerely respect your manner and appreciate your demeanor.
I have my own views on Religion (not just Christianity) and the Bible (since I admit, I am not fully aware of the Quoran and the Torah). I also know that the Bible has many beautiful passages... but so does the works of Shakespeare, Mozart and Pearl Jam. All written by Man, sometimes (sometimes not) inspired by God. But inspired by some THING... be it Truth, Love or Beauty itself.
I only question the Bible because I question the Men who made the decisions when canonizing it, specifically Bishops in 180 A.D. The Bible was also in the hands of the Church for many Centuries. The Common Man did not possess personal copies and up to the time of Gutenberg in the 1500s... and many years after his invention of the offset printer, was it possible for the Comman Man to possess his own copy. Prior to that, it was read to the Common Man by the Church... who presented their interpretations based upon outlined Church Doctrine.
So... I don't question or doubt or mistrust God... I question, doubt and mistrust Man... specifically Men who preside over us from seats of power.
In today's world... I would like to see ALL of the Holy Texts... including the texts that were reviewed and rejected as heresy... in their entirety. That way, I can make my own, personal, interpretations... instead of having them delivered to me... by another Man.
I do not mean to cause anyone to follow me... believe me. These are MY personal views that are prescribed only for me. I believe the relationship with God is personal, I don't care which path towards God anyone chooses... including the choice not look for God. I will bid you well on your journey. I'm taking my own path.
All I want is the truth... so I and decide for myself and set out on my own path towards God. That's all.
oh, i understand where you're coming from... i just think that your comments about politics would actually get more people to agree with you completely if they didn't list your judgements of the bible. i mean, i get what you're saying... and i agree with you.... but i wouldn't suggest debating about it when it concerns politics. although, i do understand why you provided it in the first place.
other than that, i'm completely on your side on the issue.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
AP – Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., addresses supporters during a campaign rally …
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that he can “guarantee” a win on Nov. 4 in a squeaker victory that won’t be clear until late that night.
McCain spoke amid signs of a tightening race, and reports of renewed determination among his staff, which is badly outgunned in both money and manpower.
“I guarantee you that two weeks from now, you will see this has been a very close race, and I believe that I'm going to win it,” McCain told interim "Meet" moderator Tom Brokaw. “We're going to do well in this campaign, my friend. We're going to win it, and it's going to be tight, and we're going to be up late.”
McCain was down just 5 points in the Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby poll released Sunday, with Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) leading by 49 percent to 44 percent among likely voters in the daily tracking poll, which has a margin of error of 2.9 points.
Reuters reported that Obama's lead has dropped over the last three days after hitting a high of 12 points on Thursday. Pollster John Zogby said: "Things are trending back for McCain. His numbers are rising and Obama's are dropping on a daily basis. There seems to be a direct correlation between this and McCain talking about the economy."
The Washington Post reported Sunday: "nside the McCain campaign the mood remains one of gritty resolve. Top aides know they are behind, but they hold out hope and, like their candidate, stubbornly refuse to give up."
McCain told Brokaw in Waterloo, Iowa, that he feels "like Knute Rockne ... go out there and get one for the Gipper."
“We are very competitive in battleground states," McCain said. "Obviously, I choose to trust my senses as well as polls. The enthusiasm at almost all of our [events] is at a higher level than I've ever seen, and I've been in a lot of presidential campaigns, usually as the warm-up act. ... And I see intensity out there, and I see passion. So we're very competitive.”
McCain added: “We're going to have to just get out our vote, work hard over the next nine days, and make sure that people know that there'll be a better future. People are very worried now — very, very worried, and have every reason to be. I think it's all about who can assure a better future.”
On the endorsement of Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) by former Secretary of State Colin Powell, McCain said: "I'm disappointed in Gen. Powell, but I'm very, very happy to know that [I'm endorsed by] five former secretaries of states who I admire enormously.”
McCain defended Republican National Committee clothing purchases on behalf of his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. Politico revealed during the past week that the RNC spent $150,000 on designer outfits at Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue for the vice presidential nominee and members of her family.
"She lives a frugal life,” he said. “She and her family are not wealthy. She and her family were thrust into this and there was some — and some third of that money is given back. The rest will be donated to charity. ... She is a role model to millions and millions and millions of Americans."
McCain appeared in a gracious mood, saying to Brokaw at the end: "I appreciate your many years of informing the American people. You've come a long way from South Dakota, but you have never forgotten where you come from.”
...
Boy... you just don't get it... do you?
If Obama asks for guidence from God to go to war... that would be okay with you? Because it wouldn't be okay with me. Prayer is not a good form of military strategy in my book.
Guidence from God is not a problem when dealing with personal matters... such as when a parent dies... or to help you decide if getting married is the right choice. But, when it comes to public matters, especially when the lives of other people hang in the balance, it is best to consult experts in the field. That is my assessment. I don't know why I have to keep explaining this to you over and over and over and over again.
You leave me to believe that there is no other alternative but the fact that you just don't get it.
...
Now... where's that fuckng IGNORE button? I really could use it.
Boo hoo.
If Obama asks for guidance from God on whether to go to war, yes that would be fine with me. I'd be willing to bet every single leader we have ever had has asked for guidance from God by praying before making that very difficult decision.
You continue to act as though prayer (or asking God for guidance) and seeking guidance elsewhere.... are mutually exclusive. So, in your frame of thinking, one can either seek guidance from a higher power OR seek it from advisors. I'm saying, NO, they can do both. And I think it's not only not wrong to do both, I think it's good. It shows they don't think they are infallible.
Here's what I don't get and you continue to dodge...
I cited a prayer that Obama left in Isreal. In it he asked God for guidance. Is that wrong? Like I said try to be consistent and leave Bush out of it, because I'm asking about Obama. If it's wrong for Bush then it should be wrong for Obama too. But, it probably isn't.... is it?
keep god...religion....out of government. period. i don't care who spouts it, it has NO place. period. i am all for personally held beliefs, religious or otherwise....i am all for their influence on your decision making processes and your thoughts.....i STILL do NOT want them INVOLVED directly in speech or action for the representation of ALL americans, who may well hold VERY different povs, religious or otherwise. let's work for the good of the population, and leave god out of it, thank you.
Comments
No, it's an issue of bad writing.
I have a problem with the idea behind this thread. That Palin was saying something that she was not. People are saying "she implied" or I think "she meant". The reality is she said what she said. Any extention of what she said to something else, is just that "an extention", and therefore subjective. What she said, in and of itself, was not bad at all.
What is it that you don't understand? I'm not rewriting it, so be it.
I agree with you on your interpretation of what Palin said.
What I don't agree with his how the Republicans "seem" to use God as their ally, or when any fundamentalist type individual does so. I think and feel it is hypocritical. It's like using God as an advertising tool.
If any one of them prays great (Repubs, Dems, Independents etc). Though, they don't have to use it to gain popularity or credentials.
I sometimes pray on decisions I make at work. I don't share this with my coworkers. It's no one's business. I take responsibility for my decisions and actions, and do the best I can. I am learning. I make mistakes, and take responsibility for them.
I also don't make up lies and call people terrorists when they are not. That's a whole other thread ...
Can someone, please... direct me to an adult I can talk to.
Thank you.
Hail, Hail!!!
i hope american voters do the 'right thing' and keep religion, god...out of our government.....which most definitely means keeping mccain/palin out of office. i think even if there is a god(s)....he/she would agree......no part of it! seperation of church and state, whatever happened to that noble concept?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I like our (yours and mine) discussions on Religion and the Bible. I see and understand your points of view and truely respect them. You have always been respectful and gracious in stating your positions and you have presented many valid points. I sincerely respect your manner and appreciate your demeanor.
I have my own views on Religion (not just Christianity) and the Bible (since I admit, I am not fully aware of the Quoran and the Torah). I also know that the Bible has many beautiful passages... but so does the works of Shakespeare, Mozart and Pearl Jam. All written by Man, sometimes (sometimes not) inspired by God. But inspired by some THING... be it Truth, Love or Beauty itself.
I only question the Bible because I question the Men who made the decisions when canonizing it, specifically Bishops in 180 A.D. The Bible was also in the hands of the Church for many Centuries. The Common Man did not possess personal copies and up to the time of Gutenberg in the 1500s... and many years after his invention of the offset printer, was it possible for the Comman Man to possess his own copy. Prior to that, it was read to the Common Man by the Church... who presented their interpretations based upon outlined Church Doctrine.
So... I don't question or doubt or mistrust God... I question, doubt and mistrust Man... specifically Men who preside over us from seats of power.
In today's world... I would like to see ALL of the Holy Texts... including the texts that were reviewed and rejected as heresy... in their entirety. That way, I can make my own, personal, interpretations... instead of having them delivered to me... by another Man.
I do not mean to cause anyone to follow me... believe me. These are MY personal views that are prescribed only for me. I believe the relationship with God is personal, I don't care which path towards God anyone chooses... including the choice not look for God. I will bid you well on your journey. I'm taking my own path.
All I want is the truth... so I and decide for myself and set out on my own path towards God. That's all.
Hail, Hail!!!
I say "Amen" to this. It is refreshing to read your words Cosmo as this is how I have felt for a very long time. Cheers to you on your journey. I hope your path is filled with all kinds of awesome, and many truths enjoyed along the way.
Actually... Bush asked God for guidence on whether we should go on with the invasion of Iraq. Apparently, God's guidence was affirming, hence, the War in Iraq.
Speaking about the run up and decision to wage war with Iraq:
"Did Mr. Bush ask his father for any advice? “I asked the president about this. And President Bush said, ‘Well, no,’ and then he got defensive about it,” says Woodward. “Then he said something that really struck me. He said of his father, ‘He is the wrong father to appeal to for advice. The wrong father to go to, to appeal to in terms of strength.’ And then he said, ‘There's a higher Father that I appeal to.’"
Beyond not asking his father about going to war, Woodward was startled to learn that the president did not ask key cabinet members either.
”The president, in making the decision to go to war, did not ask his secretary of defense for an overall recommendation, did not ask his secretary of state, Colin Powell, for his recommendation,” says Woodward.
But the president did ask Rice, his national security adviser, and Karen Hughes, his political communications adviser. Woodward says both supported going to war. And in the run-up to war, Woodward reveals the CIA hired the leaders of a Muslim religious sect at odds with Saddam, but nonetheless with numerous members highly placed in Saddam's security services. The CIA's code name for them: the Rock Stars. "
ref. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/main612067.shtml
Hail, Hail!!!
Yea, but it's OK for Obama to ask God for guidance. It's just not OK for a Republican to do it.
Consistency is tough sometimes.
No one is saying it is not ok. It's the manner in which it is done, which you are having a hard time understanding.
Bush is under scrutiny because he started a "senseless" war that he said was directed by God. If and when Obama gets in office and creates such a snafu
he will be under said scrutiny as well.
Boy... you just don't get it... do you?
If Obama asks for guidence from God to go to war... that would be okay with you? Because it wouldn't be okay with me. Prayer is not a good form of military strategy in my book.
Guidence from God is not a problem when dealing with personal matters... such as when a parent dies... or to help you decide if getting married is the right choice. But, when it comes to public matters, especially when the lives of other people hang in the balance, it is best to consult experts in the field. That is my assessment. I don't know why I have to keep explaining this to you over and over and over and over again.
You leave me to believe that there is no other alternative but the fact that you just don't get it.
...
Now... where's that fuckng IGNORE button? I really could use it.
Hail, Hail!!!
other than that, i'm completely on your side on the issue.
AP – Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., addresses supporters during a campaign rally …
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that he can “guarantee” a win on Nov. 4 in a squeaker victory that won’t be clear until late that night.
McCain spoke amid signs of a tightening race, and reports of renewed determination among his staff, which is badly outgunned in both money and manpower.
“I guarantee you that two weeks from now, you will see this has been a very close race, and I believe that I'm going to win it,” McCain told interim "Meet" moderator Tom Brokaw. “We're going to do well in this campaign, my friend. We're going to win it, and it's going to be tight, and we're going to be up late.”
McCain was down just 5 points in the Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby poll released Sunday, with Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) leading by 49 percent to 44 percent among likely voters in the daily tracking poll, which has a margin of error of 2.9 points.
Reuters reported that Obama's lead has dropped over the last three days after hitting a high of 12 points on Thursday. Pollster John Zogby said: "Things are trending back for McCain. His numbers are rising and Obama's are dropping on a daily basis. There seems to be a direct correlation between this and McCain talking about the economy."
The Washington Post reported Sunday: "nside the McCain campaign the mood remains one of gritty resolve. Top aides know they are behind, but they hold out hope and, like their candidate, stubbornly refuse to give up."
McCain told Brokaw in Waterloo, Iowa, that he feels "like Knute Rockne ... go out there and get one for the Gipper."
“We are very competitive in battleground states," McCain said. "Obviously, I choose to trust my senses as well as polls. The enthusiasm at almost all of our [events] is at a higher level than I've ever seen, and I've been in a lot of presidential campaigns, usually as the warm-up act. ... And I see intensity out there, and I see passion. So we're very competitive.”
McCain added: “We're going to have to just get out our vote, work hard over the next nine days, and make sure that people know that there'll be a better future. People are very worried now — very, very worried, and have every reason to be. I think it's all about who can assure a better future.”
On the endorsement of Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) by former Secretary of State Colin Powell, McCain said: "I'm disappointed in Gen. Powell, but I'm very, very happy to know that [I'm endorsed by] five former secretaries of states who I admire enormously.”
McCain defended Republican National Committee clothing purchases on behalf of his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. Politico revealed during the past week that the RNC spent $150,000 on designer outfits at Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue for the vice presidential nominee and members of her family.
"She lives a frugal life,” he said. “She and her family are not wealthy. She and her family were thrust into this and there was some — and some third of that money is given back. The rest will be donated to charity. ... She is a role model to millions and millions and millions of Americans."
McCain appeared in a gracious mood, saying to Brokaw at the end: "I appreciate your many years of informing the American people. You've come a long way from South Dakota, but you have never forgotten where you come from.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/14951
god will do the "right" thing on election day
Boo hoo.
If Obama asks for guidance from God on whether to go to war, yes that would be fine with me. I'd be willing to bet every single leader we have ever had has asked for guidance from God by praying before making that very difficult decision.
You continue to act as though prayer (or asking God for guidance) and seeking guidance elsewhere.... are mutually exclusive. So, in your frame of thinking, one can either seek guidance from a higher power OR seek it from advisors. I'm saying, NO, they can do both. And I think it's not only not wrong to do both, I think it's good. It shows they don't think they are infallible.
Here's what I don't get and you continue to dodge...
I cited a prayer that Obama left in Isreal. In it he asked God for guidance. Is that wrong? Like I said try to be consistent and leave Bush out of it, because I'm asking about Obama. If it's wrong for Bush then it should be wrong for Obama too. But, it probably isn't.... is it?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Sorry... but, I put you on 'Ignore'... I'm tired of wasting one more keystroke on you.
...
Life is good.
Hail, Hail!!!