Palin: God will do the right thing on election day

digster

I'm trying very hard to give her the benefit of the doubt, and assume she was saying something along the lines of "no matter what happens, God has a plan"....that kind of thing. Although considering the jackass she was talking to, I sort of doubt that.

saveuplife

Are you saying it's bad to believe in God? Because clearly, most people who believe in a God, believe he/she has power over everything, including miniscule things like elections. Hence, the term God.

PJ_Saluki

I can get down with wcsmith's approach to religion in politics.

g under p

Strangest Tribe wrote:

I want to go to your church.:)

I thought the same thing, I want to see his church.

Peace

digster

saveuplife wrote:

Are you saying it's bad to believe in God? Because clearly, most people who believe in a God, believe he/she has power over everything, including miniscule things like elections. Hence, the term God.

I think the notion that God has picked the side of the Republicans in this race, as Palin may or may not hint here (I'm not touching that one) would anger and irritate Obama's Christian supporters.

saveuplife

digster wrote:

I think the notion that God has picked the side of the Republicans in this race, as Palin may or may not hint here (I'm not touching that one) would anger and irritate Obama's Christian supporters.

She didn't hint at that at all. She said she thinks God will do the right thing. She believes the right thing to be picking McCain. But, that doesn't she means she knows the right thing according to God.

I don't get the argument against what she said unless it's an argument against having faith in God. Therefore, I don't get this thread.

Riverrunner

wcsmith wrote:

I'm a Christian. In fact, I'm a United Methodist pastor who is voting for Obama. And Palin's comment is atrocious. God does not vote on election day, the citizens of the US vote on election day. This clearly shows Palin's (a) lack of political gravity - what could she seriously contribute to the ongoing project of American democracy: Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Jackson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton...Palin? Give me a break...and (b) Palin has no theological acumen whatsoever. The theological implications raised by her statement are staggering. Not to mention the practical implications if she were to be the VP, or God forbid, the President.

my .02

I wish my brother thought like you. He is also a United Methodist Minister and very well educated. However, I don't think he is as open minded. Maybe I'm wrong. We don't communicate about God, religion, politics, or social issues so maybe he has moderated in the last few years. We don't talk about those issues because we disagree. I am the "black sheep" in our family because I stopped attending church several years ago, I don't blindly follow the Republican party, I don't have children, I'm divorced (but married to current husband for 10+ years), and I do animal rescue instead of evangelizing.

PJ_Saluki

Dr. Dobson said he and a group "prayed for a miracle in this election." Does that mean that McCain winning would be a miracle for America? Does it mean that it would take a miracle for McCain to win?

I understand that Dr. Dobson is not a reverend for a particular church, but I believe those folks who are clergy members and who do offer endorsements from the pulpit should have their church's tax-exempt status rescinded.

digster

saveuplife wrote:

She didn't hint at that at all. She said she thinks God will do the right thing. She believes the right thing to be picking McCain. But, that doesn't she means she knows the right thing according to God.

I don't get the argument against what she said unless it's an argument against having faith in God. Therefore, I don't get this thread.

There's no point to an argument such as this one. I must say, though, that I'm pretty surprised that you feel there is not even a "hint" of that, however inadvertently. I wonder if you're reading

Speaking personally as a Christian supporting Obama, I'd be pretty annoyed at someone who intimated that my position is "ungodly." I think political position and support should be supported through reason; the notion that "God is on our side" has led to an awful lot of violent, disturbing arguments throughout our nation and our world's history. If you really think there was no hint of that in Palin's remarks, than I guess it wouldn't bother you. While it's possible that Palin did not mean that, I think it's a bit wild to think that a conclusion like the one I reached is ridiculous.

That being said, this is the same person that just a few days ago said I wasn't a "real American", so is it that surprising that she would consider those who do not support her candidate anti-religion as well?

wcsmith

g under p wrote:

I thought the same thing, I want to see his church.

Peace

Just to make it clear: I'm not speaking for my church, nor am I speaking for my denomination, nor am I speaking for the Christian faith. My church is a small-town, warm, loving, conservative church. I would venture a guess that 85-90% of my people would label themselves Republican and would be disappointed to learn that their new pastor (I've been here four months) is not voting for McCain.

I also want to be clear that my 'lens' (hermeneutic, if you want to get all fancy) is primarily informed by Scripture, followed by reason, tradition, and experience (the so-called Wesleyan quadrilateral). My reasons for not supporting McCain are in part Scripturally based (it actually stems from a reading of Matthew, see 7:1-5 in relation to the scurrilous attacks on Obama, and Matthew 25:31-46 for my support of democratic economic policies).

In my current church, I have to be very careful simply because I'm in the process of building relationships and trust with my new parishoners. My commitment to being their pastor outweighs my commitment to seeing Barack Obama win the presidency. BUT, in my previous job (youth minister in a VERY conservative church for 5 and 1/2 years) I was all kinds of radical Christian with the youth. One goal was to create subversive, critical thinkers who would think for themselves. I taught a lesson one time where I explained to them why I wouldn't say the Pledge of Allegiance. Still won't. I also taught them several lessons based on my opposition to the Iraq War. They also knew upfront that I did not support George W. Bush.

Anyways, all that to say on a Sunday morning, my church doesn't look much different from any other southern United Methodist church. But if you stopped by my office for coffee on a Monday morning, our conversations would probably not be typical...

Enkidu

Thank you wcsmith. I wish more ministers and/or people who go to church would come out and speak as you do. I go to church, we're Episcopalians, and my family hates the way religion has become intertwined with politics. My best friend from back home (Virginia) is a Presbyterian minister and she feels the same way. She says it's a small, but very vocal minority that seem to make all Christians look bad. Or like kooks.

I think faith is a great thing. If it works for you. And if you don't believe it, that's fine. But it's personal issue and it definitely doesn't belong in politics.

Statements like "God will do the right thing" make me sick.

Strangest Tribe

some in my family always say "be sure to vote the right way" or "god will do the right thing"

it always struck me as pro-life and anti-gay marriage type stuff because I know that's why they vote.... you can't even discuss economy, foreign policy etc. with them because they don't care about those issues.

Cosmo

Strangest Tribe wrote:

some in my family always say "be sure to vote the right way" or "god will do the right thing"

it always struck me as pro-life and anti-gay marriage type stuff because I know that's why they vote.... you can't even discuss economy, foreign policy etc. with them because they don't care about those issues.

...
Finally... I think you are someone I can talk to about all of my questions about Religion, God, The Bible, Jesus, other religions and all that stuff. I never seem to get any answers... or the same old, scripted bullshit... ooops... that's one of my sins... a foul mouth.
Anyway... thanx.

JSBE

saveuplife wrote:

She didn't hint at that at all. She said she thinks God will do the right thing. She believes the right thing to be picking McCain. But, that doesn't she means she knows the right thing according to God.

I don't get the argument against what she said unless it's an argument against having faith in God. Therefore, I don't get this thread.

"I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”

i'll flat out say that i have zero reglious beliefs, but if someone wants to believe in whatever god they want to believe in, that's a.o.k. with me. personally, it is not my thing.

with palin's quote/comment, it just comes across as her pandering/preaching to the listeners of the show to say that if you love god, vote for john mccain and sarah palin, because that's what god would do and that's the right thing to do.

so if obama/biden win, will she admit that god decided that it was the right thing for america?

and if the election results are just waiting for god to do the right thing, why even run a campaign?

puremagic

JSBE wrote:

In an interview posted online Wednesday, Sarah Palin told Dr. James Dobson of “Focus on the Family” that she is confident God will do “the right thing for America” on Nov. 4.

Dobson asked the vice presidential hopeful if she is concerned about John McCain’s sagging poll numbers, but Palin stressed that she was “not discouraged at all.”

“To me, it motivates us, makes us work that much harder,” she told the influential Christian leader, whose radio show reaches tens of millions of listeners daily. “And it also strengthens my faith because I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”

Memorandum

To: Sarah Palin

From: God

Sarah, do you need to be reminded about the penalty for using my name in vain?

wcsmith

From a purely political standpoint, this is pure, modern-day Republican boilerplate meant to reassure the "base" that Palin is "one of them". Whether or not Palin actually believes that God's sovereignty extends to the voting booth is up for debate. Palin's religious tradition (Church of God, if I'm not mistaken) is not easily identifiable in terms of theological identity. The Pentecostal movement is identified by not having a theological identity, save pneumatology. If we take Palin at her word (which I don't), she seems to be espousing a deterministic, ultra-Calvinist stance, which looks similar to Christian Reconstructionism or Dominionism, espoused by such people as R.J. Rushdooney, Paul Weyrich, D. James Kennedy, and Gary North, et al. These people are theologically bankrupt and politically dangerous, at least in my estimation. They are also, most likely, on the wane. The economic crisis will probably diminish the popularity of both Dominionism and the prosperity Gospel, so-called.

saveuplife

JSBE wrote:

"I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”

i'll flat out say that i have zero reglious beliefs, but if someone wants to believe in whatever god they want to believe in, that's a.o.k. with me. personally, it is not my thing.

with palin's quote/comment, it just comes across as her pandering/preaching to the listeners of the show to say that if you love god, vote for john mccain and sarah palin, because that's what god would do and that's the right thing to do.

so if obama/biden win, will she admit that god decided that it was the right thing for america?

and if the election results are just waiting for god to do the right thing, why even run a campaign?

Look I respect your view that you don't believe in God. Respect mine. Respect hers. She believes that God knows best. She never said what everyone here is implying. She did not say God would vote for McCain Palin.

I believe if Obama/Biden win, she'd admit that God decided that that outcome was what was meant to happen.

Why run a campaign? Well, although she believes in God deciding the outcome, she can also believe in hard work playing a role. Bottom line: Try your best and see what God wants. If it's not meant to be after you've done your best, then it's just not meant to be.

U R A Crazy Breed

wcsmith wrote:

I'm a Christian. In fact, I'm a United Methodist pastor who is voting for Obama. And Palin's comment is atrocious. God does not vote on election day, the citizens of the US vote on election day. This clearly shows Palin's (a) lack of political gravity - what could she seriously contribute to the ongoing project of American democracy: Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Jackson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton...Palin? Give me a break...and (b) Palin has no theological acumen whatsoever. The theological implications raised by her statement are staggering. Not to mention the practical implications if she were to be the VP, or God forbid, the President.

my .02

voting for Obama hey pastor..maybe you should re-familiarize yourself with the good book!! most notably Matthew 7:15 and Matthew 24:11

marino13

Enkidu wrote:

Thank you wcsmith. I wish more ministers and/or people who go to church would come out and speak as you do. I go to church, we're Episcopalians, and my family hates the way religion has become intertwined with politics. My best friend from back home (Virginia) is a Presbyterian minister and she feels the same way. She says it's a small, but very vocal minority that seem to make all Christians look bad. Or like kooks.

I think faith is a great thing. If it works for you. And if you don't believe it, that's fine. But it's personal issue and it definitely doesn't belong in politics.

Statements like "God will do the right thing" make me sick.

I am a Christian and am sick of the way the "Christian Right" misrepresents what my faith is about. I just started a book called "God's Politics" by Wallis that discusses taking our faith back from these right wing idiots that prey on the fears of others to get votes. I think there is a groundswell of Christians that are beginning to tire of this and hopefully it won't be a dominant force much longer.

Also, an absolute MUST-READ is Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller, who also happens to be an Obama supporter. It really helped me to focus on what the Christian faith is supposed to be about (loving of others and not being judgmental).

puremagic

Crazy Breed wrote:

voting for Obama hey pastor..maybe you should re-familiarize yourself with the good book!! most notably Matthew 7:15 and Matthew 24:11

Sarah Palin's the one always speaking about what God's Will is and now she's placing her election hopes in God's hands. Maybe she needs to fly home and let her Witch Doctor lay hands on her again. Who's the false prophet and who's using God's name in vain?