Thank you wcsmith. I wish more ministers and/or people who go to church would come out and speak as you do. I go to church, we're Episcopalians, and my family hates the way religion has become intertwined with politics. My best friend from back home (Virginia) is a Presbyterian minister and she feels the same way. She says it's a small, but very vocal minority that seem to make all Christians look bad. Or like kooks.
I think faith is a great thing. If it works for you. And if you don't believe it, that's fine. But it's personal issue and it definitely doesn't belong in politics.
Statements like "God will do the right thing" make me sick.
some in my family always say "be sure to vote the right way" or "god will do the right thing"
it always struck me as pro-life and anti-gay marriage type stuff because I know that's why they vote.... you can't even discuss economy, foreign policy etc. with them because they don't care about those issues.
some in my family always say "be sure to vote the right way" or "god will do the right thing"
it always struck me as pro-life and anti-gay marriage type stuff because I know that's why they vote.... you can't even discuss economy, foreign policy etc. with them because they don't care about those issues.
...
Finally... I think you are someone I can talk to about all of my questions about Religion, God, The Bible, Jesus, other religions and all that stuff. I never seem to get any answers... or the same old, scripted bullshit... ooops... that's one of my sins... a foul mouth.
Anyway... thanx.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
She didn't hint at that at all. She said she thinks God will do the right thing. She believes the right thing to be picking McCain. But, that doesn't she means she knows the right thing according to God.
I don't get the argument against what she said unless it's an argument against having faith in God. Therefore, I don't get this thread.
"I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”
i'll flat out say that i have zero reglious beliefs, but if someone wants to believe in whatever god they want to believe in, that's a.o.k. with me. personally, it is not my thing.
with palin's quote/comment, it just comes across as her pandering/preaching to the listeners of the show to say that if you love god, vote for john mccain and sarah palin, because that's what god would do and that's the right thing to do.
so if obama/biden win, will she admit that god decided that it was the right thing for america?
and if the election results are just waiting for god to do the right thing, why even run a campaign?
In an interview posted online Wednesday, Sarah Palin told Dr. James Dobson of “Focus on the Family” that she is confident God will do “the right thing for America” on Nov. 4.
Dobson asked the vice presidential hopeful if she is concerned about John McCain’s sagging poll numbers, but Palin stressed that she was “not discouraged at all.”
“To me, it motivates us, makes us work that much harder,” she told the influential Christian leader, whose radio show reaches tens of millions of listeners daily. “And it also strengthens my faith because I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”
Memorandum
To: Sarah Palin
From: God
Sarah, do you need to be reminded about the penalty for using my name in vain?
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
From a purely political standpoint, this is pure, modern-day Republican boilerplate meant to reassure the "base" that Palin is "one of them". Whether or not Palin actually believes that God's sovereignty extends to the voting booth is up for debate. Palin's religious tradition (Church of God, if I'm not mistaken) is not easily identifiable in terms of theological identity. The Pentecostal movement is identified by not having a theological identity, save pneumatology. If we take Palin at her word (which I don't), she seems to be espousing a deterministic, ultra-Calvinist stance, which looks similar to Christian Reconstructionism or Dominionism, espoused by such people as R.J. Rushdooney, Paul Weyrich, D. James Kennedy, and Gary North, et al. These people are theologically bankrupt and politically dangerous, at least in my estimation. They are also, most likely, on the wane. The economic crisis will probably diminish the popularity of both Dominionism and the prosperity Gospel, so-called.
"I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”
i'll flat out say that i have zero reglious beliefs, but if someone wants to believe in whatever god they want to believe in, that's a.o.k. with me. personally, it is not my thing.
with palin's quote/comment, it just comes across as her pandering/preaching to the listeners of the show to say that if you love god, vote for john mccain and sarah palin, because that's what god would do and that's the right thing to do.
so if obama/biden win, will she admit that god decided that it was the right thing for america?
and if the election results are just waiting for god to do the right thing, why even run a campaign?
Look I respect your view that you don't believe in God. Respect mine. Respect hers. She believes that God knows best. She never said what everyone here is implying. She did not say God would vote for McCain Palin.
I believe if Obama/Biden win, she'd admit that God decided that that outcome was what was meant to happen.
Why run a campaign? Well, although she believes in God deciding the outcome, she can also believe in hard work playing a role. Bottom line: Try your best and see what God wants. If it's not meant to be after you've done your best, then it's just not meant to be.
I'm a Christian. In fact, I'm a United Methodist pastor who is voting for Obama. And Palin's comment is atrocious. God does not vote on election day, the citizens of the US vote on election day. This clearly shows Palin's (a) lack of political gravity - what could she seriously contribute to the ongoing project of American democracy: Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Jackson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton...Palin? Give me a break...and (b) Palin has no theological acumen whatsoever. The theological implications raised by her statement are staggering. Not to mention the practical implications if she were to be the VP, or God forbid, the President.
my .02
voting for Obama hey pastor..maybe you should re-familiarize yourself with the good book!! most notably Matthew 7:15 and Matthew 24:11
Thank you wcsmith. I wish more ministers and/or people who go to church would come out and speak as you do. I go to church, we're Episcopalians, and my family hates the way religion has become intertwined with politics. My best friend from back home (Virginia) is a Presbyterian minister and she feels the same way. She says it's a small, but very vocal minority that seem to make all Christians look bad. Or like kooks.
I think faith is a great thing. If it works for you. And if you don't believe it, that's fine. But it's personal issue and it definitely doesn't belong in politics.
Statements like "God will do the right thing" make me sick.
I am a Christian and am sick of the way the "Christian Right" misrepresents what my faith is about. I just started a book called "God's Politics" by Wallis that discusses taking our faith back from these right wing idiots that prey on the fears of others to get votes. I think there is a groundswell of Christians that are beginning to tire of this and hopefully it won't be a dominant force much longer.
Also, an absolute MUST-READ is Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller, who also happens to be an Obama supporter. It really helped me to focus on what the Christian faith is supposed to be about (loving of others and not being judgmental).
voting for Obama hey pastor..maybe you should re-familiarize yourself with the good book!! most notably Matthew 7:15 and Matthew 24:11
Sarah Palin's the one always speaking about what God's Will is and now she's placing her election hopes in God's hands. Maybe she needs to fly home and let her Witch Doctor lay hands on her again. Who's the false prophet and who's using God's name in vain?
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
Look I respect your view that you don't believe in God. Respect mine. Respect hers. She believes that God knows best. She never said what everyone here is implying. She did not say God would vote for McCain Palin.
I believe if Obama/Biden win, she'd admit that God decided that that outcome was what was meant to happen.
Why run a campaign? Well, although she believes in God deciding the outcome, she can also believe in hard work playing a role. Bottom line: Try your best and see what God wants. If it's not meant to be after you've done your best, then it's just not meant to be.
i said if someone wants to believe in whatever god they want to that it was a.o.k. with me...right? i think that is me respecting your beliefs and her beliefs...or am i missing something?
and how can you say that what she said isn't meant as literal as opposed to what i think was her implication? i said "it comes across as" which would be my thought that that is what she was implying. it is my opinion. please respect that. i'll admit that she didn't specifically state that god would vote for mccain/palin, but it is of my opinion that that is what she was implying.
and to be honest, i don't think that she would say "well, god wanted obama/biden to win and i'm ok with that." i just don't get that vibe from her. again, just my opinion.
"Bottom line: Try your best and see what God wants. If it's not meant to be after you've done your best, then it's just not meant to be."
this is just contradicting to me and again, no offense to the god worshipping people here, but why does god need to be brought into the equation? if you did your best and it is not meant to be, then it just won't happen regardless of what god wants. i mean, if you did your worst and it happened, then all the credit would go to god?
i'm pretty sure either way i look like a a-hole here, but i just want to make this clear: i'm all for believing in god and religion and all that, but it is just not how i was raised or how i live my life. much like any other 'polarizing' issue, i'm perfectly ok with someone accepting the opposite of my beliefs.
Sarah Palin's the one always speaking about what God's Will is and now she's placing her election hopes in God's hands. Maybe she needs to fly home and let her Witch Doctor lay hands on her again. Who's the false prophet and who's using God's name in vain?
the point of the verse is that they are ALL false prophets Obama & McCain...and they all claim to be Religious/Christian..like Bush did...when they are the exact opposite!
Look I respect your view that you don't believe in God. Respect mine. Respect hers. She believes that God knows best. She never said what everyone here is implying. She did not say God would vote for McCain Palin.
I believe if Obama/Biden win, she'd admit that God decided that that outcome was what was meant to happen.
Why run a campaign? Well, although she believes in God deciding the outcome, she can also believe in hard work playing a role. Bottom line: Try your best and see what God wants. If it's not meant to be after you've done your best, then it's just not meant to be.
So you dont think at all that as a politician, she was hinting that the right thing means Mccain Palin?
voting for Obama hey pastor..maybe you should re-familiarize yourself with the good book!! most notably Matthew 7:15 and Matthew 24:11
Last time I checked, Barack Obama was running to be the president of an ostensibly secular government in a country that claims a tradition of religious tolerance. I'm not looking to engage in an argument over my vote - any number of Scriptures can be employed to back up any number of positions. And don't presume that I need to "re-familiarize" myself with any particular Scripture - your reading of the aforemention Matthean texts are just that - your reading. And I definitely do not need to be lectured about my own faithfulness or my participation in American democracy.
And perhaps you should read those verses in light of the whole document.
In an interview posted online Wednesday, Sarah Palin told Dr. James Dobson of “Focus on the Family” that she is confident God will do “the right thing for America” on Nov. 4.
Dobson asked the vice presidential hopeful if she is concerned about John McCain’s sagging poll numbers, but Palin stressed that she was “not discouraged at all.”
“To me, it motivates us, makes us work that much harder,” she told the influential Christian leader, whose radio show reaches tens of millions of listeners daily. “And it also strengthens my faith because I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”
This is not the first time this waterhead has made a comment like this. Remember the whole "Gods Will" thing in regards to our Troops in Iraq? I'm so sick of Palin going on TV and shooting her mouth off and pandering to the GOP base about "God" and what she thinks "God" stands for.
She doesnt' know shit.
The GOP should cork this dizzy bitch until November 5th.
There's no point to an argument such as this one. I must say, though, that I'm pretty surprised that you feel there is not even a "hint" of that, however inadvertently. I wonder if you're reading
Speaking personally as a Christian supporting Obama, I'd be pretty annoyed at someone who intimated that my position is "ungodly." I think political position and support should be supported through reason; the notion that "God is on our side" has led to an awful lot of violent, disturbing arguments throughout our nation and our world's history. If you really think there was no hint of that in Palin's remarks, than I guess it wouldn't bother you. While it's possible that Palin did not mean that, I think it's a bit wild to think that a conclusion like the one I reached is ridiculous.
That being said, this is the same person that just a few days ago said I wasn't a "real American", so is it that surprising that she would consider those who do not support her candidate anti-religion as well?
did you ever watch a football game, or just any sports in particular and the winner usually says, "i want to thank God for giving me this opportunity..."
I'm not sure if they meant, "giving me the opportunity to be part of this sport either i win or lose," or they might've meant, "giving me the opportunity for allowing me to beat the crap of my opponent." but one this is truly alarming that it's always both sides giving thanks to God for that opportunity. so who's to say... did God actually listen to the winner more than the loser out of preference? or did God just flip a coin and see what happens? i don't know... maybe we're all God's dice afterall.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
I'm not sure if they meant, "giving me the opportunity to be part of this sport either i win or lose," or they might've meant, "giving me the opportunity for allowing me to beat the crap of my opponent." but one this is truly alarming that it's always both sides giving thanks to God for that opportunity. so who's to say... did God actually listen to the winner more than the loser out of preference? or did God just flip a coin and see what happens? i don't know... maybe we're all God's dice afterall.
Well, the radical Muslims are killing Americans in the name of their God.
Americans are killing Muslims in the name of our God.
Look I respect your view that you don't believe in God. Respect mine. Respect hers. She believes that God knows best. She never said what everyone here is implying. She did not say God would vote for McCain Palin.
I believe if Obama/Biden win, she'd admit that God decided that that outcome was what was meant to happen.
Why run a campaign? Well, although she believes in God deciding the outcome, she can also believe in hard work playing a role. Bottom line: Try your best and see what God wants. If it's not meant to be after you've done your best, then it's just not meant to be.
...
Regarding "Respect mine. Respect hers. She believes that God knows best."
That's all good and fine... as it relates to your (or Sarah Palin's) personal life. But, if she is in an office whose decisions affect everyone... then it becomes our business.
Think about it... in this current financial crisis... would you want our leaders to sit back and pray it all works out... believing that God will fix our economy?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Also... think about it...
When was the last time God was on the side of the World's Super Power (Biblical Times)? Egypt? How about Rome?
So, why would God bless the wealthiest, most powerful nation in favor of the down trodden and oppressed?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
So, if Obama is elected will conservatives rally against God since he's not patriotic, doesn't love guns, is communist, loves abortions, and is the antichrist?
I cannot believe that in the year 2008 A.D. that people still believe that God cares who you vote for in a polling booth. Doesn't He have better things to do... you know, like being the omnipotent force in the Universe that drives the galaxies and guides the stars?
Well if God is the omnipotent force in the universe then God can see the future and already knows who won, so it doesn't matter anyways.
Well if God is the omnipotent force in the universe then God can see the future and already knows who won, so it doesn't matter anyways.
...
So... He has already delivered us... or smited us.
...
Actually... you know what would be kind of funny? If God has commited voter fraud in this election... just to fuck with us. Then, Him and His kid, Jesus can kick back and watch our faces... and laugh... and laugh... and laugh.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm a Christian. In fact, I'm a United Methodist pastor who is voting for Obama. And Palin's comment is atrocious. God does not vote on election day, the citizens of the US vote on election day. This clearly shows Palin's (a) lack of political gravity - what could she seriously contribute to the ongoing project of American democracy: Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Jackson, Lincoln, Roosevelt, FDR, Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton...Palin? Give me a break...and (b) Palin has no theological acumen whatsoever. The theological implications raised by her statement are staggering. Not to mention the practical implications if she were to be the VP, or God forbid, the President.
my .02
You are a breath of fresh air in this congested stale election! I have let this election get the best of me. I'm very empathic and it has been very ungrounding. For many reasons it has hit a core nerve, one the biggest is the GOD POLITICS ... can we just leave God out of this?!? God isn't choosing sides ... too many darn controversy's ... wars, hate and on, over who's God is right or wrong ... whatever happened to the Omnipotent All Loving God?!
Wasn't one of the initial reasons for coming forth to this country to separate Church & State?! Lot's of complexities ...
Very interesting thread all in all ... lot's of viewpoints. I sure wish you would do a sermon for us ... I surely would attend! : )
Many thanks for the book reco's on this thread ...
"The Rise of American Democracy" Sean Wilentz
"God's Politics" Jim Wallis
"Blue Like Jazz" Donald Miller
... all added to my never ending reading list. : )
Comments
I think faith is a great thing. If it works for you. And if you don't believe it, that's fine. But it's personal issue and it definitely doesn't belong in politics.
Statements like "God will do the right thing" make me sick.
it always struck me as pro-life and anti-gay marriage type stuff because I know that's why they vote.... you can't even discuss economy, foreign policy etc. with them because they don't care about those issues.
Finally... I think you are someone I can talk to about all of my questions about Religion, God, The Bible, Jesus, other religions and all that stuff. I never seem to get any answers... or the same old, scripted bullshit... ooops... that's one of my sins... a foul mouth.
Anyway... thanx.
Hail, Hail!!!
"I know at the end of the day putting this in God’s hands, the right thing for America will be done, at the end of the day on Nov. 4.”
i'll flat out say that i have zero reglious beliefs, but if someone wants to believe in whatever god they want to believe in, that's a.o.k. with me. personally, it is not my thing.
with palin's quote/comment, it just comes across as her pandering/preaching to the listeners of the show to say that if you love god, vote for john mccain and sarah palin, because that's what god would do and that's the right thing to do.
so if obama/biden win, will she admit that god decided that it was the right thing for america?
and if the election results are just waiting for god to do the right thing, why even run a campaign?
Memorandum
To: Sarah Palin
From: God
Sarah, do you need to be reminded about the penalty for using my name in vain?
Look I respect your view that you don't believe in God. Respect mine. Respect hers. She believes that God knows best. She never said what everyone here is implying. She did not say God would vote for McCain Palin.
I believe if Obama/Biden win, she'd admit that God decided that that outcome was what was meant to happen.
Why run a campaign? Well, although she believes in God deciding the outcome, she can also believe in hard work playing a role. Bottom line: Try your best and see what God wants. If it's not meant to be after you've done your best, then it's just not meant to be.
voting for Obama hey pastor..maybe you should re-familiarize yourself with the good book!! most notably Matthew 7:15 and Matthew 24:11
I am a Christian and am sick of the way the "Christian Right" misrepresents what my faith is about. I just started a book called "God's Politics" by Wallis that discusses taking our faith back from these right wing idiots that prey on the fears of others to get votes. I think there is a groundswell of Christians that are beginning to tire of this and hopefully it won't be a dominant force much longer.
Also, an absolute MUST-READ is Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller, who also happens to be an Obama supporter. It really helped me to focus on what the Christian faith is supposed to be about (loving of others and not being judgmental).
Sarah Palin's the one always speaking about what God's Will is and now she's placing her election hopes in God's hands. Maybe she needs to fly home and let her Witch Doctor lay hands on her again. Who's the false prophet and who's using God's name in vain?
i said if someone wants to believe in whatever god they want to that it was a.o.k. with me...right? i think that is me respecting your beliefs and her beliefs...or am i missing something?
and how can you say that what she said isn't meant as literal as opposed to what i think was her implication? i said "it comes across as" which would be my thought that that is what she was implying. it is my opinion. please respect that. i'll admit that she didn't specifically state that god would vote for mccain/palin, but it is of my opinion that that is what she was implying.
and to be honest, i don't think that she would say "well, god wanted obama/biden to win and i'm ok with that." i just don't get that vibe from her. again, just my opinion.
"Bottom line: Try your best and see what God wants. If it's not meant to be after you've done your best, then it's just not meant to be."
this is just contradicting to me and again, no offense to the god worshipping people here, but why does god need to be brought into the equation? if you did your best and it is not meant to be, then it just won't happen regardless of what god wants. i mean, if you did your worst and it happened, then all the credit would go to god?
i'm pretty sure either way i look like a a-hole here, but i just want to make this clear: i'm all for believing in god and religion and all that, but it is just not how i was raised or how i live my life. much like any other 'polarizing' issue, i'm perfectly ok with someone accepting the opposite of my beliefs.
the point of the verse is that they are ALL false prophets Obama & McCain...and they all claim to be Religious/Christian..like Bush did...when they are the exact opposite!
so don't get it twisted, i hate them both.
So you dont think at all that as a politician, she was hinting that the right thing means Mccain Palin?
Last time I checked, Barack Obama was running to be the president of an ostensibly secular government in a country that claims a tradition of religious tolerance. I'm not looking to engage in an argument over my vote - any number of Scriptures can be employed to back up any number of positions. And don't presume that I need to "re-familiarize" myself with any particular Scripture - your reading of the aforemention Matthean texts are just that - your reading. And I definitely do not need to be lectured about my own faithfulness or my participation in American democracy.
And perhaps you should read those verses in light of the whole document.
She doesnt' know shit.
The GOP should cork this dizzy bitch until November 5th.
I'm not sure if they meant, "giving me the opportunity to be part of this sport either i win or lose," or they might've meant, "giving me the opportunity for allowing me to beat the crap of my opponent." but one this is truly alarming that it's always both sides giving thanks to God for that opportunity. so who's to say... did God actually listen to the winner more than the loser out of preference? or did God just flip a coin and see what happens? i don't know... maybe we're all God's dice afterall.
We'll clearly feel the wrath of God if a Democrat is elected.
7-6-2006 Las Vegas. 7-20-2006 Portland. 7-22-2006 Gorge. 9-21-2009 Seattle. 9-22-2009 Seattle. 9-26-2009 Ridgefield. 9-25-2011 Vancouver.
11-29-2013 Portland. 10-16-2014 Detroit. 8-8-2018 Seattle. 8-10-2018 Seattle. 8-13-2018 Missoula. 5-10-2024 Portland. 5-30-2024 Seattle.
Well, the radical Muslims are killing Americans in the name of their God.
Americans are killing Muslims in the name of our God.
Somebody's God is misleading their people.
7-6-2006 Las Vegas. 7-20-2006 Portland. 7-22-2006 Gorge. 9-21-2009 Seattle. 9-22-2009 Seattle. 9-26-2009 Ridgefield. 9-25-2011 Vancouver.
11-29-2013 Portland. 10-16-2014 Detroit. 8-8-2018 Seattle. 8-10-2018 Seattle. 8-13-2018 Missoula. 5-10-2024 Portland. 5-30-2024 Seattle.
Regarding "Respect mine. Respect hers. She believes that God knows best."
That's all good and fine... as it relates to your (or Sarah Palin's) personal life. But, if she is in an office whose decisions affect everyone... then it becomes our business.
Think about it... in this current financial crisis... would you want our leaders to sit back and pray it all works out... believing that God will fix our economy?
Hail, Hail!!!
When was the last time God was on the side of the World's Super Power (Biblical Times)? Egypt? How about Rome?
So, why would God bless the wealthiest, most powerful nation in favor of the down trodden and oppressed?
Hail, Hail!!!
That would be interesting.
Well if God is the omnipotent force in the universe then God can see the future and already knows who won, so it doesn't matter anyways.
So... He has already delivered us... or smited us.
...
Actually... you know what would be kind of funny? If God has commited voter fraud in this election... just to fuck with us. Then, Him and His kid, Jesus can kick back and watch our faces... and laugh... and laugh... and laugh.
Hail, Hail!!!
God should use that ability to rake in big bucks betting on sports.
You are a breath of fresh air in this congested stale election! I have let this election get the best of me. I'm very empathic and it has been very ungrounding. For many reasons it has hit a core nerve, one the biggest is the GOD POLITICS ... can we just leave God out of this?!? God isn't choosing sides ... too many darn controversy's ... wars, hate and on, over who's God is right or wrong ... whatever happened to the Omnipotent All Loving God?!
Wasn't one of the initial reasons for coming forth to this country to separate Church & State?! Lot's of complexities ...
Very interesting thread all in all ... lot's of viewpoints. I sure wish you would do a sermon for us ... I surely would attend! : )
Many thanks for the book reco's on this thread ...
"The Rise of American Democracy" Sean Wilentz
"God's Politics" Jim Wallis
"Blue Like Jazz" Donald Miller
... all added to my never ending reading list. : )
peace h&d