Sometimes non-action is more heinous and deplorable then taking action

angelica

Rats of Multa wrote:

"Art".

I wonder if you could clarify, my friend. Although in my understanding, art is beyond logic, reasoning and words. Like what a picture is to a thousand words...

my2hands

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

You can't solve a problem by having your supposed 'solution' contain more of the
problem.

bullshit... how do you think they fight forrest fires? sometimes they light other more controlled fires to deter the larger uncontrolled fire

angelica

Commy wrote:

That's the question. How does an individual resist violence being committed against them? How does a people? How does anyone?

it depends on the situation.

I'd like to say that in theory, I am not against reasonable, necessary force for self-defense. In these discussions, in theory, it's butting into other people's problems that I refer to.

my2hands

Commy wrote:

And I am reminded ... of the sad story of Kitty Genovese. As you all may remember, long time ago almost 30 years ago. This poor soul cried out for help time and time again, but no person answered their calls. Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of evil, which we must fear most, and that is, the indifference of good men.

good point... that story is friggin sad beyond words

my2hands

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I'm not going to accept murder and indiscriminate bombings of any place or people. How do you stop monstrous acts without becoming a monster as well?

i love watching people talk about scum murdering children with machetes as if they are normal nice people that are just having a bad day :rolleyes:

Commy

my2hands wrote:

i love watching people talk about scum murdering children with machetes as if they are normal nice people that are just having a bad day :rolleyes:

the question is how do you deal with people that would do such terrible things.

angelica

my2hands wrote:

i love watching people talk about scum murdering children with machetes as if they are normal nice people that are just having a bad day :rolleyes:

Where is it you see that happening?

my2hands

why do you guys think armored car drivers carry guns?


to deter the bad guys, thats why. same thing on a much different scale

Collin

my2hands wrote:

i love watching people talk about scum murdering children with machetes as if they are normal nice people that are just having a bad day :rolleyes:

Where does she say that? In fact this whole thread has been how she's against violence and how horrible it is. That include the people who murder children with machetes. But it also includes military people who bomb children. It's pretty funny - but not haha funny - since you're the one who is an advocate of military action. The military, US or other, has proven time and time again it cannot be trusted, it has proven that it targets civilians (collateral damage, they call it) time and time again. But you just ignore that little fact and pretend that you're only helping people by action. You forget the that innocent people's blood is also spilled by the military, you even justify it. And you talk about them as if they are normal nice people saving the day and bringing peace.

Abookamongstthemany

Collin wrote:

Where does she say that? In fact this whole thread has been how she's against violence and how horrible it is. That include the people who murder children with machetes. But it also includes military people who bomb children. It's pretty funny - but not haha funny - since you're the one who is an advocate of military action. The military, US or other, has proven time and time again it cannot be trusted, it has proven that it targets civilians (collateral damage, they call it) time and time again. But you just ignore that little fact and pretend that you're only helping people by action. You forget the that innocent people's blood is also spilled by the military, you even justify it. And you talk about them as if they are normal nice people saving the day and bringing peace.

Collin, you fucking rock.

sweetpotato

Commy wrote:

That's the question. How does an individual resist violence being committed against them? How does a people? How does anyone?

self-help books and pacifist campaign slogans, maybe? ooh, maybe they can hold them down with the sticks that the campaign slogans are nailed to, then smack them in the head with the self help books!

or they can just type away, day in and day out, on some semi-obscure-are-they-still-together rock band's message board's political forum.

my2hands

sweetpotato wrote:

self-help books and pacifist campaign slogans, maybe? ooh, maybe they can hold them down with the sticks that the campaign slogans are nailed to, then smack them in the head with the self help books!

or they can just type away, day in and day out, on some semi-obscure-are-they-still-together rock band's message board's political forum.

are they still together?


WHAT HAVE I MISSED???????

farfromglorified

Commy wrote:

That's the question. How does an individual resist violence being committed against them? How does a people? How does anyone?

You'd be better off starting with this question:

Why would an individual wish to resist violence being committed against them?

Rats of Multa

angelica wrote:

I wonder if you could clarify, my friend. Although in my understanding, art is beyond logic, reasoning and words. Like what a picture is to a thousand words...

i dont see art as beyond logic, reasoning, or words, since these faculties are the basis of human language/communication--art is intertwined with these functions as art requires these functions for its understanding.

the power of art is such that any individual or group of individuals [i.e. societies or cultures] might be able to express and likewise congregate regarding any given topic(s) or idea(s).

this place is a prime example, since for the most part each of us has some relationship with the art of PJ. the extended power of art is that it can out-live generations and centuries, and thereby create immeasurable influences on eras unknown in the future.

the main reason i made my comment though is the discrepancy of needing power to fight power, and similarly of needing violence to resist violence--art is an active-pacifistic method of combating tyranny in whatever form(s).

Collin

Rats of Multa wrote:

i dont see art as beyond logic, reasoning, or words, since these faculties are the basis of human language/communication--art is intertwined with these functions as art requires these functions for its understanding.

the power of art is such that any individual or group of individuals [i.e. societies or cultures] might be able to express and likewise congregate regarding any given topic(s) or idea(s).

this place is a prime example, since for the most part each of us has some relationship with the art of PJ. the extended power of art is that it can out-live generations and centuries, and thereby create immeasurable influences on eras unknown in the future.

the main reason i made my comment though is the discrepancy of needing power to fight power, and similarly of needing violence to resist violence--art is an active-pacifistic method of combating tyranny in whatever form(s).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_People_of_the_Universe

angelica

Rats of Multa wrote:

i dont see art as beyond logic, reasoning, or words, since these faculties are the basis of human language/communication--art is intertwined with these functions as art requires these functions for its understanding.

the power of art is such that any individual or group of individuals [i.e. societies or cultures] might be able to express and likewise congregate regarding any given topic(s) or idea(s).

this place is a prime example, since for the most part each of us has some relationship with the art of PJ. the extended power of art is that it can out-live generations and centuries, and thereby create immeasurable influences on eras unknown in the future.

the main reason i made my comment though is the discrepancy of needing power to fight power, and similarly of needing violence to resist violence--art is an active-pacifistic method of combating tyranny in whatever form(s).

I agree. Including that I agree that art is intertwined with reason, logic, etc. What I see is that art conveys beyond the limits of reason. Like a complete piece of artwork conveys beyond a line contained within it. Or similarily, experiencing a sunset far surpasses what is transmitted communicating that experience to others.

my2hands

Collin wrote:

What would I do? Whatever is necessary but in a peaceful way. Pretty fuckin' simple, don't you think?

and if the peaceful way didnt work and they contunued to murder thousands? what then?

fuck

Commy wrote:

And I am reminded ... of the sad story of Kitty Genovese. As you all may remember, long time ago almost 30 years ago. This poor soul cried out for help time and time again, but no person answered their calls. Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of evil, which we must fear most, and that is, the indifference of good men.

Boondock Saints was a great movie.

Rats of Multa

angelica wrote:

I agree. Including that I agree that art is intertwined with reason, logic, etc. What I see is that art conveys beyond the limits of reason. Like a complete piece of artwork conveys beyond a line contained within it. Or similarily, experiencing a sunset far surpasses what is transmitted communicating that experience to others.

yeah, that's very true that art can surpass the more common aspects of communication. whether a symphony or a painting, the lack of literature in many art-forms opens what experiences(s) may occur in affect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_White

Rats of Multa

Collin wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_People_of_the_Universe

hadn't heard of them before, thanks. thats some really interesting stuff too. i find Soviet culture fascinating in the various complexities of hierarchy throughout the former union.

kind of weird to think about America dismantling into several regional states,.. imagining Vermonters loading into vw's and cruisin down to Georgia with rifles and compacts,.....