That's the question. How does an individual resist violence being committed against them? How does a people? How does anyone?
self-help books and pacifist campaign slogans, maybe? ooh, maybe they can hold them down with the sticks that the campaign slogans are nailed to, then smack them in the head with the self help books!
or they can just type away, day in and day out, on some semi-obscure-are-they-still-together rock band's message board's political forum.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
self-help books and pacifist campaign slogans, maybe? ooh, maybe they can hold them down with the sticks that the campaign slogans are nailed to, then smack them in the head with the self help books!
or they can just type away, day in and day out, on some semi-obscure-are-they-still-together rock band's message board's political forum.
I wonder if you could clarify, my friend. Although in my understanding, art is beyond logic, reasoning and words. Like what a picture is to a thousand words...
i dont see art as beyond logic, reasoning, or words, since these faculties are the basis of human language/communication--art is intertwined with these functions as art requires these functions for its understanding.
the power of art is such that any individual or group of individuals [i.e. societies or cultures] might be able to express and likewise congregate regarding any given topic(s) or idea(s).
this place is a prime example, since for the most part each of us has some relationship with the art of PJ. the extended power of art is that it can out-live generations and centuries, and thereby create immeasurable influences on eras unknown in the future.
the main reason i made my comment though is the discrepancy of needing power to fight power, and similarly of needing violence to resist violence--art is an active-pacifistic method of combating tyranny in whatever form(s).
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
i dont see art as beyond logic, reasoning, or words, since these faculties are the basis of human language/communication--art is intertwined with these functions as art requires these functions for its understanding.
the power of art is such that any individual or group of individuals [i.e. societies or cultures] might be able to express and likewise congregate regarding any given topic(s) or idea(s).
this place is a prime example, since for the most part each of us has some relationship with the art of PJ. the extended power of art is that it can out-live generations and centuries, and thereby create immeasurable influences on eras unknown in the future.
the main reason i made my comment though is the discrepancy of needing power to fight power, and similarly of needing violence to resist violence--art is an active-pacifistic method of combating tyranny in whatever form(s).
i dont see art as beyond logic, reasoning, or words, since these faculties are the basis of human language/communication--art is intertwined with these functions as art requires these functions for its understanding.
the power of art is such that any individual or group of individuals [i.e. societies or cultures] might be able to express and likewise congregate regarding any given topic(s) or idea(s).
this place is a prime example, since for the most part each of us has some relationship with the art of PJ. the extended power of art is that it can out-live generations and centuries, and thereby create immeasurable influences on eras unknown in the future.
the main reason i made my comment though is the discrepancy of needing power to fight power, and similarly of needing violence to resist violence--art is an active-pacifistic method of combating tyranny in whatever form(s).
I agree. Including that I agree that art is intertwined with reason, logic, etc. What I see is that art conveys beyond the limits of reason. Like a complete piece of artwork conveys beyond a line contained within it. Or similarily, experiencing a sunset far surpasses what is transmitted communicating that experience to others.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
And I am reminded ... of the sad story of Kitty Genovese. As you all may remember, long time ago almost 30 years ago. This poor soul cried out for help time and time again, but no person answered their calls. Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of evil, which we must fear most, and that is, the indifference of good men.
I agree. Including that I agree that art is intertwined with reason, logic, etc. What I see is that art conveys beyond the limits of reason. Like a complete piece of artwork conveys beyond a line contained within it. Or similarily, experiencing a sunset far surpasses what is transmitted communicating that experience to others.
yeah, that's very true that art can surpass the more common aspects of communication. whether a symphony or a painting, the lack of literature in many art-forms opens what experiences(s) may occur in affect.
hadn't heard of them before, thanks. thats some really interesting stuff too. i find Soviet culture fascinating in the various complexities of hierarchy throughout the former union.
kind of weird to think about America dismantling into several regional states,.. imagining Vermonters loading into vw's and cruisin down to Georgia with rifles and compacts,.....
we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
and if the peaceful way didnt work and they contunued to murder thousands? what then?
What if it did?
What if the violent way doesn't work? Even if it works at what cost? The deaths of not only the enemy, but also the death of hundreds if not thousands of innocent people. This has happened many times and rarely are the murderers convicted. In fact, they're decorated. People justify their actions, and they go unpunished. These people committed the same crimes as the enemy, and not just against the enemy. It's despicable.
i dont see art as beyond logic, reasoning, or words, since these faculties are the basis of human language/communication--art is intertwined with these functions as art requires these functions for its understanding.
the power of art is such that any individual or group of individuals [i.e. societies or cultures] might be able to express and likewise congregate regarding any given topic(s) or idea(s).
this place is a prime example, since for the most part each of us has some relationship with the art of PJ. the extended power of art is that it can out-live generations and centuries, and thereby create immeasurable influences on eras unknown in the future.
the main reason i made my comment though is the discrepancy of needing power to fight power, and similarly of needing violence to resist violence--art is an active-pacifistic method of combating tyranny in whatever form(s).
"Those people who recognize that imagination is reality's master, we call "sages", and those who act upon it, we call "artists." ~ Tom Robbins
i think you misunderstood the whole argument bro.. no one advocates the military intervention first? of course you try peaceful efforts and hope they work... i think the obvious point here was after peaceful and diplomatic efforts fail then you must intervene
i think you misunderstood the whole argument bro.. no one advocates the military intervention first? of course you try peaceful efforts and hope they work... i think the obvious point here was after peaceful and diplomatic efforts fail then you must intervene
hey, my2hands
How's it going today?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i think you misunderstood the whole argument bro.. no one advocates the military intervention first? of course you try peaceful efforts and hope they work... i think the obvious point here was after peaceful and diplomatic efforts fail then you must intervene
I understand the whole argument. My problem is with the military intervention part. I've stated that I agree that military intervention is an option if all else fails, however, when military intervention includes violence towards innocent people it's not an option for me. And I believe that currently the military, whether it be NATO, UN or US, is not able to do anything without causing harm to civilians.
one of my biggest issues with this thread was the fact that the title suggests that non-violence=non-action.
Exactly.
Most people I know who advocate creating peace and problem-resolution are constantly committed and doing so in all manner of ways.
It's those who don't know how to create peace and who think resolution is passive, rather than understand how powerful and proactive it is, who are actually "doing nothing" most of the time. They then advocate violent assault/killing when situations appear to be between a rock and a hard place. In my experience, when one is in their darkest hour, and the solutions seem to not be there, that is when the most intense evolution is happening, and when one is given the opportunity to be open to resolve things on a much deeper level.
Or we can just kill people.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Comments
self-help books and pacifist campaign slogans, maybe? ooh, maybe they can hold them down with the sticks that the campaign slogans are nailed to, then smack them in the head with the self help books!
or they can just type away, day in and day out, on some semi-obscure-are-they-still-together rock band's message board's political forum.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
are they still together?
WHAT HAVE I MISSED???????
You'd be better off starting with this question:
Why would an individual wish to resist violence being committed against them?
i dont see art as beyond logic, reasoning, or words, since these faculties are the basis of human language/communication--art is intertwined with these functions as art requires these functions for its understanding.
the power of art is such that any individual or group of individuals [i.e. societies or cultures] might be able to express and likewise congregate regarding any given topic(s) or idea(s).
this place is a prime example, since for the most part each of us has some relationship with the art of PJ. the extended power of art is that it can out-live generations and centuries, and thereby create immeasurable influences on eras unknown in the future.
the main reason i made my comment though is the discrepancy of needing power to fight power, and similarly of needing violence to resist violence--art is an active-pacifistic method of combating tyranny in whatever form(s).
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_People_of_the_Universe
naděje umírá poslední
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
and if the peaceful way didnt work and they contunued to murder thousands? what then?
yeah, that's very true that art can surpass the more common aspects of communication. whether a symphony or a painting, the lack of literature in many art-forms opens what experiences(s) may occur in affect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_White
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
hadn't heard of them before, thanks. thats some really interesting stuff too. i find Soviet culture fascinating in the various complexities of hierarchy throughout the former union.
kind of weird to think about America dismantling into several regional states,.. imagining Vermonters loading into vw's and cruisin down to Georgia with rifles and compacts,.....
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
What if it did?
What if the violent way doesn't work? Even if it works at what cost? The deaths of not only the enemy, but also the death of hundreds if not thousands of innocent people. This has happened many times and rarely are the murderers convicted. In fact, they're decorated. People justify their actions, and they go unpunished. These people committed the same crimes as the enemy, and not just against the enemy. It's despicable.
naděje umírá poslední
"Those people who recognize that imagination is reality's master, we call "sages", and those who act upon it, we call "artists." ~ Tom Robbins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVp2TxcWNz0
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
then awesome, problem solved!
i think you misunderstood the whole argument bro.. no one advocates the military intervention first? of course you try peaceful efforts and hope they work... i think the obvious point here was after peaceful and diplomatic efforts fail then you must intervene
hey, my2hands
How's it going today?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I understand the whole argument. My problem is with the military intervention part. I've stated that I agree that military intervention is an option if all else fails, however, when military intervention includes violence towards innocent people it's not an option for me. And I believe that currently the military, whether it be NATO, UN or US, is not able to do anything without causing harm to civilians.
naděje umírá poslední
Indeed.
naděje umírá poslední
Most people I know who advocate creating peace and problem-resolution are constantly committed and doing so in all manner of ways.
It's those who don't know how to create peace and who think resolution is passive, rather than understand how powerful and proactive it is, who are actually "doing nothing" most of the time. They then advocate violent assault/killing when situations appear to be between a rock and a hard place. In my experience, when one is in their darkest hour, and the solutions seem to not be there, that is when the most intense evolution is happening, and when one is given the opportunity to be open to resolve things on a much deeper level.
Or we can just kill people.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!