Obama on race and his pastor

cornnifer

Thecure wrote:

while i agree with your first paragraph, the second not so much. here is why: i don't think it is foolish that we talk about a person that has influence, according to Obama himself, over someone who could be president. secondly, over course if Obama was 30 points behind we would not talk abotu this but that politics get used to it. finally, he is not being victimized by institutional American Racism he i sstill the front runner to be the next president. every person in teh race right now has faced attacks. remember that McCain issue that he could not raise his arms above his head, people have attack Hillary with terms like Bitch, Tramp.

Attacks are one thing. It is politics. But this stupid shit about Obama's church pastor is not your average election season "vetting". The statements made being played again, and again, aren't even Obama's statements! What's more is he has rejected them! His whole campaign has been 180 degrees from these statements. Yesterday he spoke for apx 45 minutes about issues he's tried to avoid. Every word was spot on. How do people handle this? They go right back to the Jeremiah Wright loop. Why do you think they used this line of attack anyway? What are they hoping to accomplish? i'll answer that. They are trying to portray Obama as an angry, hate filled, card carrying member of the Black Panther Party, thus scaring misimformed white voters and tapping into a subtle racism by playing the bullshit "reverse discrimination" card. Its racism plain and simple. i'm standing by that obsevation.
What kills me more than anything are the people spouting off about this shit who havn't been in a church in decades and NEVER in a Black church.

jwillmo

Thecure wrote:

i hope then that you would have to say that McCain does not have to answer for the right wing pastors. right?

That's exactly right. I judge McCain on his own damned words.

Now if Obama had been in the background, clapping and cheering while the preacher said what he said, that would be different. But I sure wouldn't want to be held accoutable for some of the stupid shit my friends have said.

As for McCain, I'm more troubled by the fact that he clearly pandered to the right-wing pastors while thinking that they are "agents of intolerance" - his words - than the words of the pastors themselves.

Thecure

brandon10 wrote:

All you have to do is watch all the speeches on Iraq from today, I ask you to do that. I do not think Obama is perfect by any means. I even think his health care platform is the worst amongst the liberal candidates. But I do believe he is by far the only candidate that can make a difference and get some things done over the next 4 to 8 years. I appreciate a candidate that uses common sense in his approach to politics.

Watch all 4 speeches from today and you should clearly see who spews the same old rhetoric and non-sense, and who has clear vision and common sense for the future.

please remember that some people's clear vision and common sense is another person rhetoric. what i was resonding to before is that we have a double stardard here. people complain that McCain has right wingers saying things and talk bad abotu him while we are not doing the same thing to Obama.

Abookamongstthemany

The thing about Obama's speech is that he did the same thing he always does....give a pretty speech ,that most all of his constituents would agree with, get praise and admiration...but still mange to not address the original cause for concern! There's no accountability there. It's just telling everyone what they want to hear and that's it.

brandon10

Thecure wrote:

please remember that some people's clear vision and common sense is another person rhetoric. what i was resonding to before is that we have a double stardard here. people complain that McCain has right wingers saying things and talk bad abotu him while we are not doing the same thing to Obama.

And what I was saying is that I agree that McCain and Clinton are bright people as well. But Obama will get more accomplished as president. Heading the country and world onto a better path for the future.

cornnifer

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

The thing about Obama's speech is that he did the same thing he always does....give a pretty speech ,that most all of his constituents would agree with, get praise and admiration...but still mange to not address the original cause for concern! There's no accountability there. It's just telling everyone what they want to hear and that's it.

?!?!

What speech did you listen to?! There was damn near 45 minutes of addressing the cause for concern. What would you have the man say that he didn't?

i guess progressivism IS truly dead.
*sigh*

jwillmo

cornnifer wrote:

?!?!

What speech did you listen to?! There was damn near 45 minutes of addressing the cause for concern. What would you have the man say that he didn't?

i guess progressivism IS truly dead.
*sigh*

No shit, I think some of these posters had their post written before he even made the fucking speech. Some people just have their minds made up and nothing will ever dissuade them.

Abookamongstthemany

cornnifer wrote:

?!?!

What speech did you listen to?! There was damn near 45 minutes of addressing the cause for concern. What would you have the man say that he didn't?

i guess progressivism IS truly dead.
*sigh*

He addressed why he continued to go to this man's church even when he was known for saying things such a the sermon in question?

I'm just saying it couldn't have been me. If I went to church and the pastor was spouting some extremely divisive type things like that then I would not want to continue going there. I wonder why Obama kept going even though he disagree so strongly with those viewpoints? It would be a deal breaker for me.

And how does asking that question end progressivism? Progressivism is all about asking the questions you're concerned about and wanting answers. This issue is a concern for many people, apparently.

Thecure

brandon10 wrote:

And what I was saying is that I agree that McCain and Clinton are bright people as well. But Obama will get more accomplished as president. Heading the country and world onto a better path for the future.

you see, i like some of Obama ideas and i think he has a great future but i don't know if he has the contacts to get what he wants to do, done. poilitic s is a tricky club to join and i don't know if Obama knows teh club yet.

Obama can make a great speech and i do believe that the speech he gave was great but i just don't know if he can take those words and make actions.

pjalive21

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

The thing about Obama's speech is that he did the same thing he always does....give a pretty speech ,that most all of his constituents would agree with, get praise and admiration...but still mange to not address the original cause for concern! There's no accountability there. It's just telling everyone what they want to hear and that's it.

thank you, thank you, thank you..thats all i got

not one person that has spread tears for Obama has rebutted anything any of us have brought up about his priest, expect saying that its old news or who cares or diverting attention to another speech he gave today?

you see divert us to another speech he gave....thats its....thats all he has

Abookamongstthemany

jwillmo wrote:

No shit, I think some of these posters had their post written before he even made the fucking speech. Some people just have their minds made up and nothing will ever dissuade them.

Dissuade me about what? I was just curious as to why he continued to go to this man's sermons if he disagreed so strongly? We can't ask questions now and expect a direct answer? You guys are too much.

boxwine_in_hell

I'm sick of hearing about Obama's pastor. It's more Swift Boat bullshit. At least Obama had the balls to nip it in the bud, unlike Kerry.

brandon10

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

The thing about Obama's speech is that he did the same thing he always does....give a pretty speech ,that most all of his constituents would agree with, get praise and admiration...but still mange to not address the original cause for concern! There's no accountability there. It's just telling everyone what they want to hear and that's it.

He didn't address an original cause for concern because there is no fucking cause for concern. Abook, I'm starting to think you are a republican at heart because you sure sound like O'reilly and all the idiots at Fox!!! They are spewing the same retarded shit you are.

pjalive21

boxwine_in_hell wrote:

I'm sick of hearing about Obama's pastor. It's more Swift Boat bullshit. At least Obama had the balls to nip it in the bud, unlike Kerry.

lets see if thats true and if he gets anymore "spiritual advice" from him in the future....

of course your tired of hearing about it, its damaging against the mans character...you are partially who you surround yourself with

i disagree with my friends stance in politics but they have never spewed the hate that Rev. Wright has and if they did i would distance myself, not wait 20 years when im running for president

EDIT:::

Brandon10 let me guess your a liberal progressive, are we going to be labeling people now who have different views? what about the wonderful media job done on MSNBC when they tried nailing Mcain with the whole affair deal..now that was some great journalistic work

brandon10

pjalive21 wrote:

lets see if thats true and if he gets anymore "spiritual advice" from him in the future....

of course your tired of hearing about it, its damaging against the mans character...you are partially who you surround yourself with

i disagree with my friends stance in politics but they have never spewed the hate that Rev. Wright has and if they did i would distance myself, not wait 20 years when im running for president

You hit the nail on the head!!! "spiritual advice" not political advice. Get a grip on reality!

cornnifer

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

He addressed why he continued to go to this man's church even when he was known for saying things such a the sermon in question?

I'm just saying it couldn't have been me. If I went to church and the pastor was spouting some extremely divisive type things like that then I would not want to continue going there. I wonder why Obama kept going even though he disagree so strongly with those viewpoints? It would be a deal breaker for me.

And how does asking that question end progressivism? Progressivism is all about asking the questions you're concerned about and wanting answers. This issue is a concern for many people, apparently.

Yep. i'd say he addressed it rather completely and matter of factly:

"Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS
That has been my experience at Trinity. Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety - the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity's services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions - the good and the bad - of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love."


Again, Abook, when was the last time you regularly attended any church, let alone a Black church? Progressivism is more than asking questions. It is moving beyond stupid shit like this and concentrating on shit that matters. Its o.k to ask questions. He answered this one. Getting over it and moving on is progressivism. Furthermore this is perhaps the MOST PROGRESSIVE address i have ever heard from a political candidate. He pandered to NO ONE.

pjalive21

brandon10 wrote:

You hit the nail on the head!!! "spiritual advice" not political advice. Get a grip on reality!

so the politics he spoke of in church while Obama was there for over 20 years is spiritual?

what about the tax exempt status of a church that discusses politics?

in all honesty we are all going to go back and forth on this and no one is going to get the other to sway on the subject...

lets all agree to disagree

Abookamongstthemany

cornnifer wrote:

Yep. i'd say he addressed it rather completely and matter of factly:

"Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS
That has been my experience at Trinity. Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety - the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity's services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions - the good and the bad - of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love."


Again, Abook, when was the last time you regularly attended any church, let alone a Black church? Progressivism is more than asking questions. It is moving beyond stupid shit like this and concentrating on shit that matters. Its o.k to ask questions. He answered this one. Getting over it and moving on is progressivism. Furthermore this is perhaps the MOST PROGRESSIVE address i have ever heard from a political candidate. He pandered to NO ONE.

That doesn't address, to me, how he could continue going to a church with a pastor who held these extremely divisive views, views which Obama claims to be strongly against. All he said was basically the guy is like family and he has said and done other things he agrees with. But preaching hate is a big concern and even if I had been as close to a person as he was to Wright...I'm not going to follow and support a man with those kinds of delusions and prejudices. I would be outraged if any group of people I happened to be in was led by someone spouting such divisive and hateful remarks. I couldn't just go along and ignore it. If I was in a group whose leader started making similiar remarks about blacks, jews...whoever, I would get up and leave and wouldn't be coming back. Again, I'll ask you...if it had been Hillary's pastor and remarks about black people, would it not be a concern to you?

Also, I do not think addressing race issues is the most progressive stance one can make. These problems have been healing themselves for years. Just the fact that Obama has gotten the amount of support he has shows us that. People aren't concerned with each others race nearly as much nowadays. Address the oppression of the lower classes and the huge amount of money going into defense funding instead of social programs, address how thick special interests and corporate money has it's claws inside both parties and be honest about it even though you belong to one of those parties and I'll consider that speech to be the most progressive speech given by a Dem in quite some time. The race issue is a no-brainer, we all know the deal and are on board with furthering the progress in this issue. The other issues I just mentioned are widely ignored by the major parties despite the overwhelming concern from the public.

my2hands

i have $20 that says 75% of you dont even know what the pastor has said...


and another $20 that says 75% of you would agree with most of what he said...

Abookamongstthemany

my2hands wrote:

i have $20 that says 75% of you dont even know what the pastor has said...


and another $20 that says 75% of you would agree with most of what he said...

The issues he spoke of do not just affect blacks. It's not the powerful white people against the the black people. It was racist and divisive. It's the super rich and powerful against the rest of us.

And a lot of Obama supporters feel much differently than Wright on those issues so it is an issue whether or not Obama would support those kind of statements and continue attending a church that is led by someone with those kind of views.