This may be where the denial comes in. Are you suggesting that Iraq was a peaceful place until we arrived? Are you denying the 100s of thousands of deaths that occurred under Saddam prior to our arrival?
i can state with certainty that Saddam is not responsible for the 600,000 deaths post invasion.
the old "saddam was a bad guy" thing has lost its luster and is a pathetic argument for justifying this war and the resulting destruction and death. just remember we didnt invade bc saddam was a bad guy, we all know why we are there.
This may be where the denial comes in. Are you suggesting that Iraq was a peaceful place until we arrived? Are you denying the 100s of thousands of deaths that occurred under Saddam prior to our arrival?[/quote]
i see you didnt answer my question?
if the war is not the reason for the 600,000 dead, then what is?
and no, i am not saying US soldiers are persoanly responsible for all iraqi casualties... what i am saying is that the invasion has been responsible for the casualties. the death toll takes into account all deaths that have been a result of the war that would not have happened if not for the invasion and occupation.
not being condescending.... just find it hard to believe that researchers can be so sure of their numbers when we still don't know how many Iraqi civilians and others were murdered during Sadaam's reign... hence how would we know how many civilians would have died without war?? How do they know that there wouldn't have been an incident in the Middle East which would have led to civilian casualties?? Just too many variables for me....
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Social awareness does not equal political activism!
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i dont need to be manipulated by the past to make an effort in the present and future. and that's what you're doing. your tactics are as pointless and reprehensible as the ultrasound before abortion law discussed in another thread. a way to try to rub someone's face in something and say "see! isnt what you're doing sick? now do it my way!" it's a sick and juvenile tactic and ensures the people who disagree with you wont even listen to your reasons which prevents you from changing anyone's mind. it's emotional blackmail and when people feel they're being manipulated, they resist on principle.
Yes, Saddam was a douche bag. But fact remains, more violence has taken place in that country over the past four years, than the four years prior to that, and for that reason alone, maaaaaaaaaaaybe the invasion shouldn't have taken place, no? I mean, for us to sit in the comfort of our homes or workplaces and comment on this is one thing, but, to ask a citizen of Iraq, who was previously under the rule of Hussein, would they rather have their parents and their children back alive, but still be under the rule of Saddam, how do you think they would respond?
05/30/03 Van, 09/01/05 Gorge, 09/02/05 Van, 09/04/05 Cal, 09/05/05 Ed, 09/07/05 S'toon, 09/08/05 'Peg, 07/22&23/06 Gorge, 06/14/08 'Roo, 08/08/09 Cal, 09/21/11 Cal, 09/23/11 Ed, 12/02/13 Cal
i can state with certainty that Saddam is not responsible for the 600,000 deaths post invasion.
the old "saddam was a bad guy" thing has lost its luster and is a pathetic argument for justifying this war and the resulting destruction and death. just remember we didnt invade bc saddam was a bad guy, we all know why we are there.
actually, i have no idea why we are there. it's why i've never supported the war. i was never able to figure out what purpose it was supposed to serve and im not a big fan of killing people for no apparent reason.
not being condescending.... just find it hard to believe that researchers can be so sure of their numbers when we still don't know how many Iraqi civilians and others were murdered during Sadaam's reign...
has nothing to do with the studies post invasion figures
hence how would we know how many civilians would have died without war??
certainly wouldnt be 600,000, and it wouldnt be blood i helped spill through my taxes
How do they know that there wouldn't have been an incident in the Middle East which would have led to civilian casualties?? Just too many variables for me....
well, we know for sure that WE invaded, destroyed the fucking country, and the end result SO FAR is 600,000 dead mothers, fathers, and siblings. no disputing that.
my question is why are people so quick to dismiss these numbers and this study?
is it bc the truth hurts? do we see a # like 600,000 and think that is impossible bc we have not seen 1 body on CNN? do we just not want to believe it?
How do they know that there wouldn't have been an incident in the Middle East which would have led to civilian casualties?? Just too many variables for me....
Wow.
Of COURSE there'd still be incidents in the middle east... but how does that make the mass killings that HAVE been going on, and ARE going on any less real?
05/30/03 Van, 09/01/05 Gorge, 09/02/05 Van, 09/04/05 Cal, 09/05/05 Ed, 09/07/05 S'toon, 09/08/05 'Peg, 07/22&23/06 Gorge, 06/14/08 'Roo, 08/08/09 Cal, 09/21/11 Cal, 09/23/11 Ed, 12/02/13 Cal
i dont need to be manipulated by the past to make an effort in the present and future. and that's what you're doing. your tactics are as pointless and reprehensible as the ultrasound before abortion law discussed in another thread. a way to try to rub someone's face in something and say "see! isnt what you're doing sick? now do it my way!" it's a sick and juvenile tactic and ensures the people who disagree with you wont even listen to your reasons which prevents you from changing anyone's mind. it's emotional blackmail and when people feel they're being manipulated, they resist on principle.
i never said do anything my way. just posting a study that shows the deaths that have been caused in iraq, financed by MY tax dollars. i am as much to blame as a pro-war supporter.
i guess its "sick and juvenile" to discuss reality? and i guess posting this study is "emotional blackmail" :rolleyes:
nice try dude, the study is not my opinion, it is FACT. and it is not my opinion that i have helped finance this slaughter, it is FACT.
i never said do anything my way. just posting a study that shows the deaths that have been caused in iraq, financed by MY tax dollars. i am as much to blame as a pro-war supporter.
i guess its "sick and juvenile" to discuss reality? and i guess posting this study is "emotional blackmail" :rolleyes:
nice try dude, the study is not my opinion, it is FACT. and it is not my opinion that i have helped finance this slaughter, it is FACT.
i got the impression you were using this study to browbeat people into supporting your anti-war agenda. i dont dispute the study's accuracy. i just dont see the point in talking about it. ok, 600000 dead... what am i supposed to say? im sorry? clearly you wanted to elicit outrage at the war, so in that sense, yes it is sick for you to exploit their deaths to further your political agenda, just as it was sick for bush to exploit the deaths of 9/11 so further his agenda.
We didn't kill 600,000 people, nor did we finance the killing of 600,000 iraqis.
Of course not...please proceed to the stupid booth immediately for reprogramming...
Unfortunately we cannot guarantee that what you have upstairs can be at all repaired. Chances are you may just be broken.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
it is if you're mother nature. we're a scourge on this planet. and we've always slaughtered each other. if it wasnt us killing 600,000 iraqis it would be someone else killing 600,000 other people. im so tired of hearing about iraq. we fucked up, we're there, and we can't take it back. let it go.
You should be probably more tired from living on this board 24/7
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Asolutely not. Do YOU choose how your tax dollars are allocated? Nope. Can you stop paying them? Again, negative (unless you quit your job and refuse to work).
i work and pay taxes, but in no way will accept even part of the responsibility for this shit. i pay taxes because i HAVE to, and i have absolutelyno control over how they're spent.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
so you're saying that US soldiers killed 600,000 Iraqi civilians???? sorry but that's not what your pretty little article is saying...
put your head back in the sand... your ass looks prettier than your head right now.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
has nothing to do with the studies post invasion figures
yes it does.. Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of people before the invasion and he would still be killing them if he was in power
certainly wouldnt be 600,000, and it wouldnt be blood i helped spill through my taxes
again, did you send your tax money to insurgents and other groups which are making and using bombs against civilians and soldiers???
well, we know for sure that WE invaded, destroyed the fucking country, and the end result SO FAR is 600,000 dead mothers, fathers, and siblings. no disputing that.
but you can't say that Iraq wouldn't have become involved in a conflict which would have subjected them to casualties. Or wouldn't have killed thousands of their own people as has happened in the past. The Middle East isn't necessarily the poster child for stability...
my question is why are people so quick to dismiss these numbers and this study?
not dismissing the study but I'm surely not going to take it at face value when other factors could and should have been considered..
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Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
Asolutely not. Do YOU choose how your tax dollars are allocated? Nope. Can you stop paying them? Again, negative (unless you quit your job and refuse to work).
i work and pay taxes, but in no way will accept even part of the responsibility for this shit. i pay taxes because i HAVE to, and i have absolutelyno control over how they're spent.
Actually, you don't HAVE to, if you're willing to face the consequences. Three years without paying taxes for me and nothing has happened.
im a pretty cold-hearted person. death has never seemed like a very big deal to me.
Someday Souls, (by the grace of God ) You'll find yourself married. My guess is someday you will have children. Trust me, your outlook on life will be forever changed. You won't be able to stop it so don't try. Your self diagnosed "cold heart" will thaw quite a bit.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
i got the impression you were using this study to browbeat people into supporting your anti-war agenda. i dont dispute the study's accuracy. i just dont see the point in talking about it. ok, 600000 dead... what am i supposed to say? im sorry? clearly you wanted to elicit outrage at the war, so in that sense, yes it is sick for you to exploit their deaths to further your political agenda, just as it was sick for bush to exploit the deaths of 9/11 so further his agenda.
so to talk about the reality's of this war is to exploit their deaths for my agenda?
you are full of shit, and honestly out of line.
since you need some help with clarification, the intent of my post is to point out that no matter your stance on the war, WE ARE ALL SUPPORTING IT THROUGH OUR FEDERAL TAXES. we have financed this slaughter, whether you like it or not.
if the war is not the reason for the 600,000 dead, then what is?
A combination of US military killing Iraqis, Iraqis killing US military, and Iraqis killing Iraqis. Tribal/Sect warfare has been going on in that region forever. They kill each other daily. They were killing each other daily before we got there. I know you don't like to acknowlege Saddam, but he did, in fact, cause death to hundreds of thousands, and would have likely continued to do so.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I guess not having rows of Walmart and Bigmacs in every other country is somewhat of a vacation wrecker for most overwieght, undereducated, self absorbed US citizens....
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Someday Souls, (by the grace of God ) You'll find yourself married. My guess is someday you will have children. Trust me, your outlook on life will be forever changed. You won't be able to stop it so don't try. Your self diagnosed "cold heart" will thaw quite a bit.
i dont know... you think id already feel that way about my brothers and parents. but death is not a big deal. i esp dont understand why christians are so torn up about it... you get to go to heaven right? and if there is no heaven, then we become dust and dont even remember living. in either case, death is not unpleasant for the dead person, so it's selfish of me to moan about them not being where i want them to be. but that's a whole other thread.
so to talk about the reality's of this war is to exploit their deaths for my agenda?
you are full of shit, and honestly out of line.
since you need some help with clarification, the intent of my post is to point out that no matter your stance on the war, WE ARE ALL SUPPORTING IT THROUGH OUR FEDERAL TAXES. we have financed this slaughter, whether you like it or not.
really? seriously? jesus, i had no idea! you mean our taxes funded the war and innocent people have died in it? why wasnt i notified of this?
oh yeah... duh! who is this news to?
yes, you're just like bush in the way you are exploiting innocent deaths for your political views. we all know innocents have died. we all know the war was funded by taxes. you didnt suddenly inform anyone. you are just trying to browbeat them the way the admin did. he said "support the war or you hate america." you say "oppose the war or you like murdering innocents." neither is true.
Comments
how about the present and future you can change?
i can state with certainty that Saddam is not responsible for the 600,000 deaths post invasion.
the old "saddam was a bad guy" thing has lost its luster and is a pathetic argument for justifying this war and the resulting destruction and death. just remember we didnt invade bc saddam was a bad guy, we all know why we are there.
This may be where the denial comes in. Are you suggesting that Iraq was a peaceful place until we arrived? Are you denying the 100s of thousands of deaths that occurred under Saddam prior to our arrival?[/quote]
i see you didnt answer my question?
if the war is not the reason for the 600,000 dead, then what is?
not being condescending.... just find it hard to believe that researchers can be so sure of their numbers when we still don't know how many Iraqi civilians and others were murdered during Sadaam's reign... hence how would we know how many civilians would have died without war?? How do they know that there wouldn't have been an incident in the Middle East which would have led to civilian casualties?? Just too many variables for me....
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
i dont need to be manipulated by the past to make an effort in the present and future. and that's what you're doing. your tactics are as pointless and reprehensible as the ultrasound before abortion law discussed in another thread. a way to try to rub someone's face in something and say "see! isnt what you're doing sick? now do it my way!" it's a sick and juvenile tactic and ensures the people who disagree with you wont even listen to your reasons which prevents you from changing anyone's mind. it's emotional blackmail and when people feel they're being manipulated, they resist on principle.
actually, i have no idea why we are there. it's why i've never supported the war. i was never able to figure out what purpose it was supposed to serve and im not a big fan of killing people for no apparent reason.
my question is why are people so quick to dismiss these numbers and this study?
is it bc the truth hurts? do we see a # like 600,000 and think that is impossible bc we have not seen 1 body on CNN? do we just not want to believe it?
we sure dont doubt the 3,000 dead US soldiers
Wow.
Of COURSE there'd still be incidents in the middle east... but how does that make the mass killings that HAVE been going on, and ARE going on any less real?
i never said do anything my way. just posting a study that shows the deaths that have been caused in iraq, financed by MY tax dollars. i am as much to blame as a pro-war supporter.
i guess its "sick and juvenile" to discuss reality? and i guess posting this study is "emotional blackmail" :rolleyes:
nice try dude, the study is not my opinion, it is FACT. and it is not my opinion that i have helped finance this slaughter, it is FACT.
i got the impression you were using this study to browbeat people into supporting your anti-war agenda. i dont dispute the study's accuracy. i just dont see the point in talking about it. ok, 600000 dead... what am i supposed to say? im sorry? clearly you wanted to elicit outrage at the war, so in that sense, yes it is sick for you to exploit their deaths to further your political agenda, just as it was sick for bush to exploit the deaths of 9/11 so further his agenda.
Of course not...please proceed to the stupid booth immediately for reprogramming...
Unfortunately we cannot guarantee that what you have upstairs can be at all repaired. Chances are you may just be broken.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
You should be probably more tired from living on this board 24/7
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Asolutely not. Do YOU choose how your tax dollars are allocated? Nope. Can you stop paying them? Again, negative (unless you quit your job and refuse to work).
i work and pay taxes, but in no way will accept even part of the responsibility for this shit. i pay taxes because i HAVE to, and i have absolutelyno control over how they're spent.
put your head back in the sand... your ass looks prettier than your head right now.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
but you can't say that Iraq wouldn't have become involved in a conflict which would have subjected them to casualties. Or wouldn't have killed thousands of their own people as has happened in the past. The Middle East isn't necessarily the poster child for stability...
not dismissing the study but I'm surely not going to take it at face value when other factors could and should have been considered..
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
you probably did ... most of these organizations have ties to big multi-nationals ...
Actually, you don't HAVE to, if you're willing to face the consequences. Three years without paying taxes for me and nothing has happened.
I do plan on filing this year.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
so to talk about the reality's of this war is to exploit their deaths for my agenda?
you are full of shit, and honestly out of line.
since you need some help with clarification, the intent of my post is to point out that no matter your stance on the war, WE ARE ALL SUPPORTING IT THROUGH OUR FEDERAL TAXES. we have financed this slaughter, whether you like it or not.
A combination of US military killing Iraqis, Iraqis killing US military, and Iraqis killing Iraqis. Tribal/Sect warfare has been going on in that region forever. They kill each other daily. They were killing each other daily before we got there. I know you don't like to acknowlege Saddam, but he did, in fact, cause death to hundreds of thousands, and would have likely continued to do so.
edited, bc i dont trust everyone.
Self employed?
either way that shit'll catch up to ya.
ok, lets invade Sudan and China. your logic would support it, actually your logic would support the invasion of half the fucking planet.
national war tax resistance coordianting committee
it's a good distraction from class
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
hahhaa... yes that it would be.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
i dont know... you think id already feel that way about my brothers and parents. but death is not a big deal. i esp dont understand why christians are so torn up about it... you get to go to heaven right? and if there is no heaven, then we become dust and dont even remember living. in either case, death is not unpleasant for the dead person, so it's selfish of me to moan about them not being where i want them to be. but that's a whole other thread.
really? seriously? jesus, i had no idea! you mean our taxes funded the war and innocent people have died in it? why wasnt i notified of this?
oh yeah... duh! who is this news to?
yes, you're just like bush in the way you are exploiting innocent deaths for your political views. we all know innocents have died. we all know the war was funded by taxes. you didnt suddenly inform anyone. you are just trying to browbeat them the way the admin did. he said "support the war or you hate america." you say "oppose the war or you like murdering innocents." neither is true.