600,000 Dead Civilians, financed by me and you

my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
edited March 2007 in A Moving Train
i am responsible for the financing of 600,000 dead civilians. makes me feel real good about my government, and my federal taxes. even if we dont support the war, we are all supporting it financially. how does that make you feel?

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2396031.ece

British Backtrack on Iraq Death Toll
By Jill Lawless
The Independent UK

Tuesday 27 March 2007

British government officials have backed the methods used by scientists who concluded that more than 600,000 Iraqis have been killed since the invasion, the BBC reported yesterday.

The Government publicly rejected the findings, published in The Lancet in October. But the BBC said documents obtained under freedom of information legislation showed advisers concluded that the much-criticised study had used sound methods.

The study, conducted by researchers from Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore and the Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad, estimated that 655,000 more Iraqis had died since March 2003 than one would expect without the war. The study estimated that 601,027 of those deaths were from violence.

The researchers, reflecting the inherent uncertainties in such extrapolations, said they were 95 per cent certain that the real number of deaths lay somewhere between 392,979 and 942,636.

The conclusion, based on interviews and not a body count, was disputed by some experts, and rejected by the US and British governments. But the chief scientific adviser to the Ministry of Defence, Roy Anderson, described the methods used in the study as "robust" and "close to best practice". Another official said it was "a tried and tested way of measuring mortality in conflict zones".
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1345

Comments

  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    good riddance.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    good riddance.


    thats not even fucking funny dickhead
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    my2hands wrote:
    thats not even fucking funny dickhead

    it is if you're mother nature. we're a scourge on this planet. and we've always slaughtered each other. if it wasnt us killing 600,000 iraqis it would be someone else killing 600,000 other people. im so tired of hearing about iraq. we fucked up, we're there, and we can't take it back. let it go.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    it is if you're mother nature. we're a scourge on this planet. and we've always slaughtered each other. if it wasnt us killing 600,000 iraqis it would be someone else killing 600,000 other people. im so tired of hearing about iraq. we fucked up, we're there, and we can't take it back. let it go.


    then why dont you do the planet a favor and remove one more scourge? or maybe the scourge is your mother, grandmother, brother, sister?

    i wonder if you would joke if it was your mother that had her head blown off, and was dismissed as "collateral damage"?

    i bet it wouldnt be a fucking joke then, now would it?
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,193
    it is if you're mother nature. we're a scourge on this planet. and we've always slaughtered each other. if it wasnt us killing 600,000 iraqis it would be someone else killing 600,000 other people. im so tired of hearing about iraq. we fucked up, we're there, and we can't take it back. let it go.
    so you are implying that if the US didn't invade IRAQ 600,000civilians would of perished anyway ,some how that logic does not make sense to me ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    We didn't kill 600,000 people, nor did we finance the killing of 600,000 iraqis.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    so you are implying that if the US didn't invade IRAQ 600,000civilians would of perished anyway ,some how that logic does not make sense to me ..

    I'm pretty sure a few Iraqis were killed under Saddam's reign before we got there. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • chromiamchromiam Posts: 4,114
    did you finance insurgents and other terrorists who make IEDs and other bombs??? cause I sure didn't....
    This is your notice that there is a problem with your signature. Please remove it.

    Admin

    Social awareness does not equal political activism!

    5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    my2hands wrote:
    then why dont you do the planet a favor and remove one more scourge? or maybe the scourge is your mother, grandmother, brother, sister?

    i wonder if you would joke if it was your mother that had her head blown off, and was dismissed as "collateral damage"?

    i bet it wouldnt be a fucking joke then, now would it?

    im a pretty cold-hearted person. death has never seemed like a very big deal to me.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    so you are implying that if the US didn't invade IRAQ 600,000civilians would of perished anyway ,some how that logic does not make sense to me ..

    yes. somewhere. they would have died of starvation or disease. they die every day, all over the planet. we've sped it up a bit perhaps and made ourselves culpable for some of the death, which is shameful. but we did it, and i dont see a point in continuously dwelling on it or flogging ourselves for it like medieval self-hating and guilt-ridden catholics. learn from it and move on. making 1900 threads on the pearl jam msg pit about it is not going to alter future policy or bring back the dead people.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    im a pretty cold-hearted person. death has never seemed like a very big deal to me.

    sorry to hear that
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    my2hands wrote:
    sorry to hear that

    dont apologize, you didnt offend me.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,193
    jeffbr wrote:
    I'm pretty sure a few Iraqis were killed under Saddam's reign before we got there. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    correct on that ......
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    chromiam wrote:
    did you finance insurgents and other terrorists who make IEDs and other bombs??? cause I sure didn't....


    this study takes into account deaths that have resulted because of the invasion.


    i find it funny that after we invade, destroy the fucking place, and slaughter everything in sight (see "shock and awe") we start to blame others for the mess and death toll. nice try chrom, it doesnt fly with me.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    im a pretty cold-hearted person. death has never seemed like a very big deal to me.

    until it is someone you know i assume? it is easy to dismiss death if it doesnt affect you personaly.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    jeffbr wrote:
    We didn't kill 600,000 people, nor did we finance the killing of 600,000 iraqis.

    whatever helps you sleep at night...

    it is a fact that the 600,000 dead are a direct result of the invasion and 4 year war. dont kid yourself.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,193
    yes. somewhere. they would have died of starvation or disease. they die every day, all over the planet. we've sped it up a bit perhaps and made ourselves culpable for some of the death, which is shameful. but we did it, and i dont see a point in continuously dwelling on it or flogging ourselves for it like medieval self-hating and guilt-ridden catholics. learn from it and move on. making 1900 threads on the pearl jam msg pit about it is not going to alter future policy or bring back the dead people.
    at least you acknowledege the fact that it was perhaps one of the worst decisions to have been made by any president in our history ,do you think BUSH will ever fess up to his mistakes ??
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,492
    my2hands wrote:
    i am responsible for the financing of 600,000 dead civilians. makes me feel real good about my government, and my federal taxes. even if we dont support the war, we are all supporting it financially. how does that make you feel?

    Well, honestly, it makes me feel embarassed, upset, apologetic and pissed off all at once for several different reasons.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    my2hands wrote:
    whatever helps you sleep at night...

    it is a fact that the 600,000 dead are a direct result of the invasion and 4 year war. dont kid yourself.

    Plenty of others dispute the study. Don't kid yourself. You've built a reputation of doom and gloom. I know it helps you get through the day having something to feel shitty about.

    I've never been a proponent of the war, I hate that we're there, and I wish we'd get the hell out tomorrow. But 655,000 since the invasion doesn't equal 655,000 because of the invasion.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Well, honestly, it makes me feel embarassed, upset, apologetic and pissed off all at once for several different reasons.

    me too, good way to put it.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,193
    jeffbr wrote:
    Plenty of others dispute the study. Don't kid yourself. You've built a reputation of doom and gloom. I know it helps you get through the day having something to feel shitty about.

    I've never been a proponent of the war, I hate that we're there, and I wish we'd get the hell out tomorrow. But 655,000 since the invasion doesn't equal 655,000 because of the invasion.
    ok so maybe the #s are not 600,000 does 400,000 sound better to you ?....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    jeffbr wrote:
    Plenty of others dispute the study. Don't kid yourself. You've built a reputation of doom and gloom. I know it helps you get through the day having something to feel shitty about.
    um, i am about as optimistic and happy go lucky as it gets, but that doesnt mean i live in denial.


    I've never been a proponent of the war, I hate that we're there, and I wish we'd get the hell out tomorrow. But 655,000 since the invasion doesn't equal 655,000 because of the invasion.
    so what were they caused by, tornadoes?
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    my2hands wrote:
    um, i am about as optimistic and happy go lucky as it gets, but that doesnt mean i live in denial.



    so what were they caused by, tornadoes?

    Sand spiders.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • chromiamchromiam Posts: 4,114
    my2hands wrote:
    so what were they caused by, tornadoes?

    global warming
    This is your notice that there is a problem with your signature. Please remove it.

    Admin

    Social awareness does not equal political activism!

    5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
  • chromiamchromiam Posts: 4,114
    my2hands wrote:
    this study takes into account deaths that have resulted because of the invasion.


    i find it funny that after we invade, destroy the fucking place, and slaughter everything in sight (see "shock and awe") we start to blame others for the mess and death toll. nice try chrom, it doesnt fly with me.

    so you're saying that US soldiers killed 600,000 Iraqi civilians???? sorry but that's not what your pretty little article is saying...
    This is your notice that there is a problem with your signature. Please remove it.

    Admin

    Social awareness does not equal political activism!

    5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
  • In my opinion, going into Iraq was never a mistake nor an accident... the Administration and co. had every intention on going in there to kick some ass. What they weren't anticipating was the amount of time it has ended up taking thus far... that and the *small* amount of scrutiny they've now received.

    (Just to clarify: to me it shouldn't have happened.)
    05/30/03 Van, 09/01/05 Gorge, 09/02/05 Van, 09/04/05 Cal, 09/05/05 Ed, 09/07/05 S'toon, 09/08/05 'Peg, 07/22&23/06 Gorge, 06/14/08 'Roo, 08/08/09 Cal, 09/21/11 Cal, 09/23/11 Ed, 12/02/13 Cal
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    my2hands wrote:
    until it is someone you know i assume? it is easy to dismiss death if it doesnt affect you personaly.

    no, even when it is people i know. several of them. grandparents, uncles, friend's mothers, close friends who hung themselves. tragedy is a part of human existence and death is the natural and inevitable result of life. im not running out to meet it, but shit happens and im not going to dwell on a past i cannot change.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    at least you acknowledege the fact that it was perhaps one of the worst decisions to have been made by any president in our history ,do you think BUSH will ever fess up to his mistakes ??

    no, he wont. he's one of the worst presidents we've ever had and the iraq war was a disaster from day one. but this sort of guilt trip nonsense is helping nothing.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    chromiam wrote:
    so you're saying that US soldiers killed 600,000 Iraqi civilians???? sorry but that's not what your pretty little article is saying...


    no need to be condescending chrom...

    and no, i am not saying US soldiers are persoanly responsible for all iraqi casualties... what i am saying is that the invasion has been responsible for the casualties. the death toll takes into account all deaths that have been a result of the war that would not have happened if not for the invasion and occupation.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    my2hands wrote:
    um, i am about as optimistic and happy go lucky as it gets, but that doesnt mean i live in denial.

    Glad to hear it.
    my2hands wrote:
    so what were they caused by, tornadoes?
    [/quote]

    This may be where the denial comes in. Are you suggesting that Iraq was a peaceful place until we arrived? Are you denying the 100s of thousands of deaths that occurred under Saddam prior to our arrival?
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Sign In or Register to comment.