But that 2 to tango argument is a little strained - when Germany ploughed through France, was the French resistance at fault?
the history of how Israel came into being has already been discussed ad nauseum, no reason that I can see to go over it again. if you want to know it, go find it and read it. but it has no correlation whatsoever with Germany invading France.
no, you can't bring up the persecution of the Jews throughout history on this board. that would be "milking it".
Sure you can, it happened it was a tragedy beyond the scope of words and any moral explanation, but let's not get carried away with it and use it as justification for the same treatment towards others.. Hitler wasn't a game of tag. If you're touched by him it doesn't mean you get to behave like him for the past 60 years without impunity or criticism.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Im in shock... there are actually people here who agree with my beliefs on this matter. Usually all of my Jewish friends make me feel so bad about the situation that I'm not even allowed to talk about it.
Anyway, it really did dissapoint me to hear Obama say he'll support Israel- he did it just to get those votes.
Oh not just to get the votes... you can be guaranteed that ANY candidate who goes on about supporting Israel WILL actually back their words with action. It's the only thing you can depend on... education, who the fuck knows? Healthcare, forget about it! Economy, wait and see what happens! Israel... shit let's bomb Iran!
Are they trying to clear the entire middle east for the Jews or something?
This really can't end well.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
im a bit shocked that this thread has gone in such a direction... Israel is the one SANE country in the entire middle east. The Israeli's try to live in peace, yet got constantly bombed and bombarded by Hamas.... Imagine you lived in Michigan and the Canadians were hitting your neighborhood with rockets... how would you react?
As for why does the US back Israel... Once again, they are the only SANE country in that region. There is a TON of oil in the Middle East. With Israel wiped off the map, you are left with the radicals in Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq... what do you think would remain of that region without Israel being there? It would be a fuckin BARRON WASTELAND RUN BY FUCKING TERRORISTS!!! Given that amount of land with equally fucked up leaders, do you think they would want to start to expand their reach into other countries? HMMMM... you think $4 Gasoline is bad... wait till its $50...
WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!
Hmm... as Jordy said... it's very VERY simple for us Irish to empathise with the Palestinians... cos the same thing happened us. The Brits took over the land, forcing people out of their jobs and houses and only giving them to the protestants... trying to get the catholics to move. I'm sorry... do you see the Irish catholics as the bad ones in that mess?
It is absolutely fucking terrible what happened to the Jews in the 2nd world war... but why do the palestinians have to pay the price? It was a ridiculous notion in the first place... let's kick these people out of their homes and move them to another country and give their land to the jews... all you're missing is the death camps and you've got the holocaust all over again... except this time it's the JEWS doing it. Why is that ok? Soooooooo bloody hypocritical. And thanks for backing up the hypocrisy with the cost of gas at the end of your post
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Promissed them by god? I think not... Even when the Palastinians were given the chance to co-exist and live together in peace, they could not and would not... You had suicide bombers blowing up buses and restaurants killing innocent people going on with their lives... no Israeli will tell you that they REFUSE to live with Palastinians in the same place... however, slowly but surely the Palastinians want more and more land of "thier own"... keep giving it to them and then what do you have? the end of Israel...Palastinians however and Hamas in general REFUSE to recognize Israel as a state/country. Why is that? Cant they live together in harmony? Appartnely NOT...
:eek: cos as far as they're concerned it's Palestine... not Israel. That's like calling me a terrorist bitch for refusing to call Northern Ireland England. I'm sorry but that's just laughable.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
show me any country that leaders are not corrupt including mine and yours!! However, there is a difference between wanting to live in peace and having to deal with people killing your constituates and countrymen EVERY DAY just for a peace of land? Have we all gone mad? Hamas may have been fairly elected into government but they were declared a terrorist group a long time before that!! get the facts straight. FACT-- HAMAS IS A TERRORIST GROUP!!
:rolleyes: a piece of land? What if it were YOUR piece of land? What if the government knocked on your door one day and told you that, by agreement, you were being relocated to Mexico? You have to give up your land and everything to the Canadians who have had to leave theirs it's ridiculous... why not just send the canadians straight to mexico instead of moving EVERYONE around. It makes NO sense whatsoever!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
airstrikes are not targeting civilian areas... the fact is that these Hamas assholes shoot off their rockets from theses civilian areas without any regard for their own people. you think they give a shit about their own people? if they did would they promise them such bullshit in order for them to go blow themselves up in order to kill a few israeli's? When was the last time you heard about an Isreali strap a bomb to their body and blow up women and children in a mall or restaurant?
what are israeli's supposed to do, accept being murdered without any retaliation? Why would they? Why should they?
The US pleadges unbreakable ties to Israel because, they are a force to recon with in the region and they are the last frontier in the Wild Middle East... Without Israel there, we would have a hell of an issue in this world...
Hmm... if it weren't for Israel, I doubt we'd have to worry about the middle east AT ALL!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
"It would be my greatest sadness to see Zionists (Jews)
do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews."
- Albert Einstein
.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Hmm... as Jordy said... it's very VERY simple for us Irish to empathise with the Palestinians... cos the same thing happened us. The Brits took over the land, forcing people out of their jobs and houses and only giving them to the protestants... trying to get the catholics to move. I'm sorry... do you see the Irish catholics as the bad ones in that mess?
It is absolutely fucking terrible what happened to the Jews in the 2nd world war... but why do the palestinians have to pay the price? It was a ridiculous notion in the first place... let's kick these people out of their homes and move them to another country and give their land to the jews... all you're missing is the death camps and you've got the holocaust all over again... except this time it's the JEWS doing it. Why is that ok? Soooooooo bloody hypocritical. And thanks for backing up the hypocrisy with the cost of gas at the end of your post
ahh, good to see you noticed my point! (nobody else seemed to). i dont think there's necissarily any point in picking a side based on who started the wrongs first....its a chicken and egg argument over who has right to live on that land. .....what's important is that theyre doing what they are doing now, and it is not the 1960s or the 1940s anymore.
NI was a good example cos i just thought it showed how divided and violent people can get over small areas of land, and how difficult it can be to forget the past and forgive and just learn to both live there in harmony.
that ideal may sound ridiculous regarding Israel & Palestinians, but im sure it sounded just as mad in the North 40 years ago.
i would love to say they'll just bomb each other out of it for years and years and make peace, but thats the thing, i dont see Israel every straying from the policy it has now, (ie using the Holocaust as a stick to beat people with and justify any actions it wants to)
Promissed them by god? I think not... Even when the Palastinians were given the chance to co-exist and live together in peace, they could not and would not... You had suicide bombers blowing up buses and restaurants killing innocent people going on with their lives... no Israeli will tell you that they REFUSE to live with Palastinians in the same place... however, slowly but surely the Palastinians want more and more land of "thier own"... keep giving it to them and then what do you have? the end of Israel...Palastinians however and Hamas in general REFUSE to recognize Israel as a state/country. Why is that? Cant they live together in harmony? Appartnely NOT...
mordecai piron who was appointed in 1969 to the rank of aluf, general, and became chief rabbi of the IDF said the following.
"as a result of the selective process within the human community the people of israel have alone been endowed with the biological and metaphysical special capacity operating within the cosmos... only within the people of israel has the miraculous phenomenon of the prophecy appeared which is the peak of the ideal of the identitfication of man with the Divine Plenitude"
and this
"when our forces encounter civilians in war, in ambush, or in a raid, so long as there is no definite evaluation that those civilians are incapable of damaging our forces, it is permissable and even obligatory by the Halukhic Law to kill them. in every case one should refuse to trust the arab, even when he gives the impression of being a civilised person."
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Does it really compare to Ireland because the English have a country? So lets say the land goes back to the Palestinians, where do the Jews belong then? They too have been on the same land for thousands and thousands of years. How do we really know whose land it is? Yes we know the Jews took over the land 60 years ago but what about thousands of years ago? Why have the Jews been on that land for so long? Where do they belong if they don't belong there? It just doesn't make any sense that they simply just don't belong there and that goes for the Palestinians as well. They both belong there! The question is how do we get them to stop fighting!
It's obvious there are many reasons why my country protects Israel but that doesn't mean I agree with it. My country does a million things a day I don't agree with. It's odd to me that not only does my country take the side of the Jews but other countries take the side of the Palestinians because of the length of time they have been fighting over that piece of land. It's just ridiculous! Right now the Palestinians are the ones suffering the most but over 60 years ago it was the Jews suffering when the Palestinians controlled the land. Both sides are right and wrong.
"...believe in lies...to get by...it's divine...whoa...oh, you know what its like..."
Does it really compare to Ireland because the English have a country? So lets say the land goes back to the Palestinians, where do the Jews belong then?
I don't think anyone here is saying that the Jews should leave Israel just that Israel should go back to the 67 boarders, and maybe stop treating the Palestinians like shit while there at it.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Right now the Palestinians are the ones suffering the most but over 60 years ago it was the Jews suffering when the Palestinians controlled the land. Both sides are right and wrong.
that was my exact point. The comparison is not one which relates to who "owns" the land, which i already said. It relates to the nature of the dispute as it progresses, and each side effectively entrenches themselves and the violence and retaliation spirals to the point where the issue of "who started it" is completely irrelevant. Both sides have legitimate reasons to view the land as their home. And both sides are killing each other, albeit with different tactics and public spin.
Thats the Ireland analogy.
It relates to the fact that they both see it as their own land, and that this can lead to stalemate situautions where both sides refuse to enter civilised discussion. The situation in Ireland also involved both sides suffering casualties. thats all i meant by it....that and the obvious solution to people wanting to live on a piece of land is to both live there and learn to not kill each other
Does it really compare to Ireland because the English have a country? So lets say the land goes back to the Palestinians, where do the Jews belong then? They too have been on the same land for thousands and thousands of years. How do we really know whose land it is? Yes we know the Jews took over the land 60 years ago but what about thousands of years ago? Why have the Jews been on that land for so long? Where do they belong if they don't belong there? It just doesn't make any sense that they simply just don't belong there and that goes for the Palestinians as well. They both belong there! The question is how do we get them to stop fighting!
It's obvious there are many reasons why my country protects Israel but that doesn't mean I agree with it. My country does a million things a day I don't agree with. It's odd to me that not only does my country take the side of the Jews but other countries take the side of the Palestinians because of the length of time they have been fighting over that piece of land. It's just ridiculous! Right now the Palestinians are the ones suffering the most but over 60 years ago it was the Jews suffering when the Palestinians controlled the land. Both sides are right and wrong.
you get them to stop fighting by giving them equal rights to the land... equal opportunities... everything equal. It won't work overnight but after a while people will realise it CAN work... like in NI, like in the US with segregation, like in SA with apartheid. We're not saying to kick the jews out and do to them what they've been doing to the Palestinians... but make them stop doing what they're doing and treating the Palestinians like they don't belong in their own place.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
It's like some people are so caught up in sympathising with the Israeli plight, they've forgotten that there's a new victim this time around, or can't begin to consider that the Jews aren't necessarily the victims.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
And why are all the candidates going on about how they'll protect it? Does it not piss you off that your country is probably spending BILLIONS a year to protect another country halfway around the world... a conflict that only makes you a target? As an outsider, it seems pretty fucking ridiculous! I know about the whole money thing and how america is run by Jews and all that BUT... fucking hell, could their intentions BE more obvious?
how many jews are there in irelend? i forget.
oh, yeah. none.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
What, do you think Ireland is still a pseudonym for "Catholic Church"? Pretty small-minded attitude, guy. Of course, I'm just a potato farmer who keeps a leprechaun as a pet, so what would I know?
What, do you think Ireland is still a pseudonym for "Catholic Church"? Pretty small-minded attitude, guy. Of course, I'm just a potato farmer who keeps a leprechaun as a pet, so what would I know?
Eh. I call everyone "guy" or "son", it's not a gender thing.
I just can't believe this is the second time in two weeks I've been told I can't possibly know any Jews, cos I'm Irish. I thought people on the Train would be a little smarter than that. :rolleyes:
But thanks for being among the smart ones.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
What, do you think Ireland is still a pseudonym for "Catholic Church"? Pretty small-minded attitude, guy. Of course, I'm just a potato farmer who keeps a leprechaun as a pet, so what would I know?
you know what they say about assuming? well, you're making an ass of yourself at least.
but to answer your question, what i mean is that the US is home to a hugely diverse population, and our policies hopefully reflect that. as opposed to a primarily homogeneous country like ireland, which is relatively isolated, and let's be honest, not exactly a huge player in world politics. US foreign policy may not be perfect, surely it isn't, but we ARE a world leader. aside from all the american US-haters' claims that our support of israel is part of some conspiracy to take over the middle east and its oil, i think the fact that israel has been the underdog in so many instances for so many years, and right now sits among enemies who wish it ill at every turn, are the primary reasons the US supports israel's efforts to hold onto that land.
that said, i do not agree with everything israel does, and i have said so in other threads. but i agree with evenkat that we it's equally wrong to assume that everything the palestinians do is right and justified.
and the fact that you and helen are so vehemently anti-israel (and apparently anti-american) in this case is laughable, since you live in a country that went through something very similar, yet you haven't learned anything from it.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
you know what they say about assuming? well, you're making an ass of yourself at least.
but to answer your question, what i mean is that the US is home to a hugely diverse population, and our policies hopefully reflect that. as opposed to a primarily homogeneous country like ireland, which is relatively isolated, and let's be honest, not exactly a huge player in world politics. US foreign policy may not be perfect, surely it isn't, but we ARE a world leader. aside from all the american US-haters' claims that our support of israel is part of some conspiracy to take over the middle east and its oil, i think the fact that israel has been the underdog in so many instances for so many years, and right now sits among enemies who wish it ill at every turn, are the primary reasons the US supports israel's efforts to hold onto that land.
that said, i do not agree with everything israel does, and i have said so in other threads. but i agree with evenkat that we it's equally wrong to assume that everything the palestinians do is right and justified.
and the fact that you and helen are so vehemently anti-israel (and apparently anti-american) in this case is laughable, since you live in a country that went through something very similar, yet you haven't learned anything from it.
That's not the same as saying we're "primarily homogenous" - it's ignorant and condescending. The fact that we're not a huge player in world politics has absolutely nothing to do with the religious or ethnic diversity of our population.
And I'm not even anti-Israel, or anti-America. I love America - it gave me my childhood TV shows. I'm anti-stupidity, and thinking Israel's "underdog" status gives them carte blanche to play the victim everytime they attack Palestine seems like stupidity to me. I'm not calling for the destruction of Israel - I'm calling for an end to the destruction of Palestine. Any anti-American sentiment is based on your government's blind support of that destruction.
And the fact that myself and Helen live in a country that went through that... surely that makes our opinions on this more worthwhile?
EDIT: And I should have said... Calling me an ass for responding to an offensive remark like yours is pretty low.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
That's not the same as saying we're "primarily homogenous" - it's ignorant and condescending. The fact that we're not a huge player in world politics has absolutely nothing to do with the religious or ethnic diversity of our population.
And I'm not even anti-Israel, or anti-America. I love America - it gave me my childhood TV shows. I'm anti-stupidity, and thinking Israel's "underdog" status gives them carte blanche to play the victim everytime they attack Palestine seems like stupidity to me. I'm not calling for the destruction of Israel - I'm calling for an end to the destruction of Palestine. Any anti-American sentiment is based on your government's blind support of that destruction.
And the fact that myself and Helen live in a country that went through that... surely that makes our opinions on this more worthwhile?
EDIT: And I should have said... Calling me an ass for responding to an offensive remark like yours is pretty low.
Forget it, she's on a roll. Better off clapping with one hand:D
Cue ............the mandatory NotSoSweetPotato preaching of how to debate, interact and communicate in a respectful, thougthful and polite manner; on the internet. Quicikly followed by the now infamous NotSoSweetPotato tips, scolding and condemnation on how to NOT insult people during said debates:D:D Which of course will be littered with lame attempts to insult in the form of childish potshots:D:D
wait for it.............5....4...3...2..1...........
Forget it, she's on a roll. Better off clapping with one hand: D
Cue ............the mandatory NotSoSweetPotato preaching of how to debate, interact and communicate in a respectful, thougthful and polite manner; on the internet. Quicikly followed by the now infamous NotSoSweetPotato tips, scolding and condemnation on how to NOT insult people during said debates:D:D Which of course will be littered with lame attempts to insult in the form of childish potshots: D
wait for it.............5....4...3...2..1...........
Of course... It's my bad attitude that makes me want to set the record straight on her racist remarks. I should be more civil, and make broad, ignorant remarks, and call people asses for refuting them.
I'm learneding.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
i didn't call you an ass. i said you were making one of yourself. and i was drawing on an old saying, which you may be too young to have heard.
as far a childish namecalling, no one does it better than NMyTree, apparently. i wasn't even speaking to him yet he felt the urge to call me names and ridicule me with no provocation whatsoever.
Originally Posted by NMyTree
"Forget it, she's on a roll. Better off clapping with one hand: D
Cue ............the mandatory NotSoSweetPotato preaching of how to debate, interact and communicate in a respectful, thougthful and polite manner; on the internet. Quicikly followed by the now infamous NotSoSweetPotato tips, scolding and condemnation on how to NOT insult people during said debates Which of course will be littered with lame attempts to insult in the form of childish potshots: D
wait for it.............5....4...3...2. .1..........."
completely uncalled for.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
....as far a childish namecalling, no one does it better than NMyTree, apparently.
Well, I didn't think I was all that good at it. Nor did I believe it was anything particulary creative or outstanding. But thank you for the compliment. We all have to be good at something, I suppose:D
Comments
the history of how Israel came into being has already been discussed ad nauseum, no reason that I can see to go over it again. if you want to know it, go find it and read it. but it has no correlation whatsoever with Germany invading France.
Sure you can, it happened it was a tragedy beyond the scope of words and any moral explanation, but let's not get carried away with it and use it as justification for the same treatment towards others.. Hitler wasn't a game of tag. If you're touched by him it doesn't mean you get to behave like him for the past 60 years without impunity or criticism.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Are they trying to clear the entire middle east for the Jews or something?
This really can't end well.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
It is absolutely fucking terrible what happened to the Jews in the 2nd world war... but why do the palestinians have to pay the price? It was a ridiculous notion in the first place... let's kick these people out of their homes and move them to another country and give their land to the jews... all you're missing is the death camps and you've got the holocaust all over again... except this time it's the JEWS doing it. Why is that ok? Soooooooo bloody hypocritical. And thanks for backing up the hypocrisy with the cost of gas at the end of your post
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews."
- Albert Einstein
.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
ahh, good to see you noticed my point! (nobody else seemed to). i dont think there's necissarily any point in picking a side based on who started the wrongs first....its a chicken and egg argument over who has right to live on that land. .....what's important is that theyre doing what they are doing now, and it is not the 1960s or the 1940s anymore.
NI was a good example cos i just thought it showed how divided and violent people can get over small areas of land, and how difficult it can be to forget the past and forgive and just learn to both live there in harmony.
that ideal may sound ridiculous regarding Israel & Palestinians, but im sure it sounded just as mad in the North 40 years ago.
i would love to say they'll just bomb each other out of it for years and years and make peace, but thats the thing, i dont see Israel every straying from the policy it has now, (ie using the Holocaust as a stick to beat people with and justify any actions it wants to)
mordecai piron who was appointed in 1969 to the rank of aluf, general, and became chief rabbi of the IDF said the following.
"as a result of the selective process within the human community the people of israel have alone been endowed with the biological and metaphysical special capacity operating within the cosmos... only within the people of israel has the miraculous phenomenon of the prophecy appeared which is the peak of the ideal of the identitfication of man with the Divine Plenitude"
and this
"when our forces encounter civilians in war, in ambush, or in a raid, so long as there is no definite evaluation that those civilians are incapable of damaging our forces, it is permissable and even obligatory by the Halukhic Law to kill them. in every case one should refuse to trust the arab, even when he gives the impression of being a civilised person."
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's obvious there are many reasons why my country protects Israel but that doesn't mean I agree with it. My country does a million things a day I don't agree with. It's odd to me that not only does my country take the side of the Jews but other countries take the side of the Palestinians because of the length of time they have been fighting over that piece of land. It's just ridiculous! Right now the Palestinians are the ones suffering the most but over 60 years ago it was the Jews suffering when the Palestinians controlled the land. Both sides are right and wrong.
I don't think anyone here is saying that the Jews should leave Israel just that Israel should go back to the 67 boarders, and maybe stop treating the Palestinians like shit while there at it.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
that was my exact point. The comparison is not one which relates to who "owns" the land, which i already said. It relates to the nature of the dispute as it progresses, and each side effectively entrenches themselves and the violence and retaliation spirals to the point where the issue of "who started it" is completely irrelevant. Both sides have legitimate reasons to view the land as their home. And both sides are killing each other, albeit with different tactics and public spin.
Thats the Ireland analogy.
It relates to the fact that they both see it as their own land, and that this can lead to stalemate situautions where both sides refuse to enter civilised discussion. The situation in Ireland also involved both sides suffering casualties. thats all i meant by it....that and the obvious solution to people wanting to live on a piece of land is to both live there and learn to not kill each other
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
theocratic whores... all of them
"she tells herself and anyone else ...'father is risking , his life for our freedom'"
god is for idiots
it aint that far from "right" if u know what i mean.
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
how many jews are there in irelend? i forget.
oh, yeah. none.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
is that an answer?
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
What, do you think Ireland is still a pseudonym for "Catholic Church"? Pretty small-minded attitude, guy. Of course, I'm just a potato farmer who keeps a leprechaun as a pet, so what would I know?
I refer you to this post: http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5427667&postcount=247
NoTSoSweetPotato is a female:D
But yeah, no doubt you're right, Rhino.
Eh. I call everyone "guy" or "son", it's not a gender thing.
I just can't believe this is the second time in two weeks I've been told I can't possibly know any Jews, cos I'm Irish. I thought people on the Train would be a little smarter than that. :rolleyes:
But thanks for being among the smart ones.
you know what they say about assuming? well, you're making an ass of yourself at least.
but to answer your question, what i mean is that the US is home to a hugely diverse population, and our policies hopefully reflect that. as opposed to a primarily homogeneous country like ireland, which is relatively isolated, and let's be honest, not exactly a huge player in world politics. US foreign policy may not be perfect, surely it isn't, but we ARE a world leader. aside from all the american US-haters' claims that our support of israel is part of some conspiracy to take over the middle east and its oil, i think the fact that israel has been the underdog in so many instances for so many years, and right now sits among enemies who wish it ill at every turn, are the primary reasons the US supports israel's efforts to hold onto that land.
that said, i do not agree with everything israel does, and i have said so in other threads. but i agree with evenkat that we it's equally wrong to assume that everything the palestinians do is right and justified.
and the fact that you and helen are so vehemently anti-israel (and apparently anti-american) in this case is laughable, since you live in a country that went through something very similar, yet you haven't learned anything from it.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
That's not what you said. Let's quote, shall we?
That's not the same as saying we're "primarily homogenous" - it's ignorant and condescending. The fact that we're not a huge player in world politics has absolutely nothing to do with the religious or ethnic diversity of our population.
And I'm not even anti-Israel, or anti-America. I love America - it gave me my childhood TV shows. I'm anti-stupidity, and thinking Israel's "underdog" status gives them carte blanche to play the victim everytime they attack Palestine seems like stupidity to me. I'm not calling for the destruction of Israel - I'm calling for an end to the destruction of Palestine. Any anti-American sentiment is based on your government's blind support of that destruction.
And the fact that myself and Helen live in a country that went through that... surely that makes our opinions on this more worthwhile?
EDIT: And I should have said... Calling me an ass for responding to an offensive remark like yours is pretty low.
Forget it, she's on a roll. Better off clapping with one hand:D
Cue ............the mandatory NotSoSweetPotato preaching of how to debate, interact and communicate in a respectful, thougthful and polite manner; on the internet. Quicikly followed by the now infamous NotSoSweetPotato tips, scolding and condemnation on how to NOT insult people during said debates:D:D Which of course will be littered with lame attempts to insult in the form of childish potshots:D:D
wait for it.............5....4...3...2..1...........
Of course... It's my bad attitude that makes me want to set the record straight on her racist remarks.
I'm learneding.
as far a childish namecalling, no one does it better than NMyTree, apparently. i wasn't even speaking to him yet he felt the urge to call me names and ridicule me with no provocation whatsoever.
Originally Posted by NMyTree
"Forget it, she's on a roll. Better off clapping with one hand: D
Cue ............the mandatory NotSoSweetPotato preaching of how to debate, interact and communicate in a respectful, thougthful and polite manner; on the internet. Quicikly followed by the now infamous NotSoSweetPotato tips, scolding and condemnation on how to NOT insult people during said debates Which of course will be littered with lame attempts to insult in the form of childish potshots:
wait for it.............5....4...3...2. .1..........."
completely uncalled for.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Ah yes, quite the fine distinction. Much like the sweet potato and Yam:D
Well, I didn't think I was all that good at it. Nor did I believe it was anything particulary creative or outstanding. But thank you for the compliment. We all have to be good at something, I suppose:D
When have you ever needed for someone to be talking to you? That's never stopped you. Why would you expect different standards for others?
Nevertheless, true.
And I'll have to repeat myself...........
When have you ever needed for someone to be talking to you? That's never stopped you. Why would you expect different standards for others?
I think you're closer to a Yam, than a sweet potato:D;)